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Pete
Pete, Saturn Mechanic
Category: Saturn
Satisfied Customers: 24656
Experience:  17 years Saturn Technician experience.
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I got a 2003 Saturn lw300 will crank but wont start. I have

Customer Question

I got a 2003 Saturn lw300 will crank but wont start. I have codes p2138,p0222,p0123 would any of these codes cause the car not to start?
Submitted: 1 month ago.
Category: Saturn
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

Hi my name is ***** ***** I will be happy to assist with this today.In some cases I may need more info to assist better.I apologize for any delay.

All of these codes here relate to a fault with the throttle body.If there is a mechanical fault with the throttle body itself with the throttle plate or an issue with the throttle motor this may be cutting off air to the engine or stuck wide open allowing way to much air which can cause a no start like you see here.I have seen several faulty throttle actuators on the throttle body cause this issue here with the throttle body needing replaced.

If more help is needed, use the reply tab to continue our conversation. If no further assistance is needed, kindly rate my service,your 5 star rating is appreciated.You can rate at any time and we can continue to work on your question as this will not close out your question.Keep in mind in some cases it can be difficult to fully diagnose or help repair your vehicle without seeing it and I work on delivering the best possible answer from what I see to work with.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I can physically move the throttle body plate open with my hand. How else can I check the throttle body?
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

Does your scan tool have a data list to observe data and do you have a multi meter to test electrical with?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I have both
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

If you would like I can post the diagnostic procedure for one of the codes here so you can follow it to make sure that the throttle body is the cause.Let me know if you would like this procedure.It is also possible this is wiring at fault between the engine computer and throttle body or the engine computer itself but usually it is the throttle body at fault.The procedure will help determine which is the cause.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
please send me the diag procedure
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/op11wwqpcbd9ihm/t-10-26.gif?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cp36ur34cvkvlu8/th-10-26.gif?dl=0

P0123- TP SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT HIGH VOLTAGE
The throttle actuator control (TAC) module contains two throttle position (TP) sensors with a common 5 volt supply, a common ground, and two independent signal circuits that vary resistance according to changes in throttle plate position. The ECM measures the signal voltage from each TP sensor which is a reduced value of the ECM 5 volt reference. As the throttle plate opens from 0% throttle to wide open throttle, the voltage on the TP sensor 1 signal increases from 0.50 volts to 4.25 volts (+/- 0.1 volts), while the voltage on the TP sensor 2 signal decreases from 4.45 volts to 0.70 volts (+/- 0.1 volts). DTC P0123 sets when TP sensor 1 signal voltage at the ECM is above the calibrated voltage value.

DTC PARAMETERS

DTC P0123 will set it TP sensor 1 signal voltage greater than 4.61 volts when:
- Condition exists be longer than 140 ms
- Battery voltage greater than 7.0 volts

DTC P0123 diagnostic runs continuously with engine running.

P0123 is a type A DTC for 2002, type B DTC for 2003.

NOTE: The MIL will only illuminate if the fault is present for longer than 5 seconds. (2002 only)

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
To locate an intermittent problem, use Scan tool to monitor TP SENSOR 1 voltage with ignition On, engine Off. Wiggling wires while watching for a change in TP SENSOR 1 voltage may locate the area where an open or short to voltage in the wiring may exist.

An intermittent open in TP sensor 1 can set this DTC. Monitor the voltage range of the sensor using THROTTLE ACTUATOR CONTROL in the SPECIAL FUNCTIONS section of the Scan tool, which will command the throttle control module to move the throttle plate.

If a TP sensor 1 circuit fault is detected, the ECM will default to REDUCED POWER mode if vehicle speed is below 56 km/h (35 mph) with APP angle at 0%. Otherwise, when the circuit fault occurs, TP sensor 2 will be used and vehicle performance will not be affected. NOTE: The ECM will remain in these conditions for the entire ignition cycle even if the fault is corrected.

Circuit 486 (TP sensor 1/TP sensor 2) and circuit 1274 (APP sensor 2) share the same 5 volt reference supply (5 volt Ref-B).

The CMP/ECT/IAT/EGR/MAF/MAP/TP1/TP2 sensors share the same sensor return circuit 652.

NOTE: TP ANGLE on Scan tool is based off of TP sensor 1 only.

Let me know if you need anything else and feel free to rate my help here as this is how I receive credit for my time.Your 5 star rating is appreciated

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I took the the spark plugs out and were getting fuel into the cylinder the only thing were not getting is spark. So the next question is what controls spark does any of the code that I listed above cause a no spark condition?
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

Usually the codes above will not cause a no spark issue here.Is there spark on any of the cylinders at all?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
there is no spark in any cylinders.
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

Do you have a scan tool that you can plug in and display engine data signals on the scan tools data list?If so plug it in and go into engine data and observe rpm signal and crank over the engine and let me know if an engine rpm signal is shown so we can continue.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
ok so you just want to see rpm signal.
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

That is the first step here to locate this no spark issue.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I have 0 for rpms on engine data on my can tool
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

O.k.,the chart refers me to the crank sensor test chart.The RPM signal comes from the crank sensor and when this sensor is not sending out a signal like we see here this causes a no spark issue.Below is the rest of the chart to help determine that the crank sensor is the cause needing replaced.It can also be the ECM but usually it is the crank sensor itself.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pbwipwdi3k7oj38/cr-10-27.gif?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/935ew9ijho52z1v/cra-10-27.gif?dl=0

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I just replaced the crank sensor yesterday. With a brand new one from carquest.
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

O.k.,I would go through the testing to see if this is a possible ECM fault which may also be setting off false throttle body codes, or to see if this is a wiring fault leading from the ECM to the crank sensor.With no rpm signal this will be one of these as the cause here.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
ok so what pins at the pcm should I be hooking up the dvom to test the ecm
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

The diagnostic flow chart above will show how to test the ecm signals.It is connector J1 pins 10,59 and 62.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Then why does the flow chart say 574 and 573
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
for the pins to check at the flow chart
Expert:  Pete replied 1 month ago.

I apologize for the delay.

Those are the wiring circuit numbers not the pin/terminal numbers that you are referring to.

Let me know if you need anything else and feel free to rate my help here as this is how I receive credit for my time.Your 5 star rating is appreciated

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 11 days ago.
sorry it took so long to respond I was waiting for a part and finaly came in but didn't fix the problem. I was wondering if there is a way I can test the coil pack on the back?
Expert:  Pete replied 11 days ago.

Can you tell me what part was replaced that didnt fix this issue here?

Customer: replied 2 days ago.
Ive replaced the pcm, cam sensor and crank senor the car originally came in after the serp belt blew off the car. will not run it cranks over I got spark, and fuel in the cylinder. I'm getting a cam code and that's the only code beside a coolant temp sensor code.

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