How JustAnswer Works:
  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.
Ask Pete Your Own Question
Pete
Pete, Saturn Mechanic
Category: Saturn
Satisfied Customers: 24718
Experience:  17 years Saturn Technician experience.
14928985
Type Your Saturn Question Here...
Pete is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

2006 Saturn ion 3 2.2 I'm getting codes p0300 and

Customer Question

2006 Saturn ion 3 2.2 I'm getting codes p0300 and p0420... changed spark plugs, ignition coil, boots, igniter, changed the fuel pump and fuel filter I've checked vacuum and holding a steady 21 checked fuel pressure and it stays mostly 85 and will jump around for a second randomly.. need help figuring this out
Submitted: 8 months ago.
Category: Saturn
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Hi my name is ***** ***** I will be happy to assist with this today.In some cases I may need more info to assist better.I apologize for any delay.

Does the engine actually feel like it is running rough with this issue here?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
it does
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
You can hear and feel the miss
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

O.k.,the code P0420 indicates the catalytic converter is operating incorrectly.If the catalytic converter is restricted it will cause excessive back pressure which leads to the P0300 fault code as well as rough engine running.I have had to replace several catalytic converters in the past before for this fault here.I would have the exhaust back pressure tested with a back pressure tester.This is done by threading the tester into the pre catalytic converter oxygen sensor port then running the engine from idle to wide open throttle to see if the back pressure exceeds 1.5 psi.If it exceeds this back pressure at any rpm then the catalytic converter needs replaced to correct this here.You can usually rent this tool from a parts store most of the time.I suspect this is the cause here needing replaced.

If more help is needed, use the reply tab to continue our conversation. If no further assistance is needed, kindly rate my service.You can rate at any time and we can continue to work on your question as this will not close out your question.Keep in mind in some cases it can be difficult to fully diagnose or help repair your vehicle without seeing it and I work on delivering the best possible answer from what I see to work with.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I cut the cat off and
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Replaced it with a piece of pipe
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

O.k,did the misfire and rough running occur after the cat was cut off as well as the P0420 code?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
No it was doing it before I cut it off and still doing it now
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

O.k.,the code P0420 will not clear until you put on a cat. that is compatible with this model here and make sure you have no exhaust damage or leaks.It will stay on until this is done.It was most likely on before due to the old cat. incorrectly operating.Is your actual fuel rail pressure 85 psi with the key on or engine running?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Engine running
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Turn the key on and it's 75
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Is this an accurate fuel pressure test gauge?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It's been dead on on every other car I've tested
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Your fuel pressure should only be between 50 and 60 psi with the key on.If it is actually higher then this will cause running issues like this here and is caused by either a faulty fuel pump creating to much pressure needing replaced or fuel pressure regulator at the fuel pump needing replaced.I have seen high pressure cause misfires and rough running like this here and usually it is the fuel pump itself needing replaced.

With the engine running you should only see around 52 to 55 psi for pressure.

Let me know if you need anything else and feel free to rate my help here.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I've already replaced the fuel pump
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Where is the fuel pressure regulator located?
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

My info doesnt show a picture of this regulator but it does tell me it attaches to the fuel return pipe on the fuel pump module itself.If this is stuck closed not allowing pressure back to the tank this causes high pressure and running issues like you have here.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Is that located on the tank?
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

It does appear to be in the tank itself or on top of it on top of the fuel pump module assembly but it is located in line with the return line.I show a cost of $47 for this pressure regulator from a dealer.It may be cheaper at a local parts store.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
You have the part number?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Called the dealer and they said they show nothing like that
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Here is the part number

22678829

For a cost of $47.36 from most dealers.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Just called Chevy dealer and part number don't come up
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

It looks like it is attached to the fuel pump.You actually replace it when the pump was replaced.

Did you have the high fuel pressure reading with the old and the new pump?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Are you talking about this?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I had high fuel pressure readings with the old pump
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Fuel pump evap pressure sensor
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

That is actually for fuel tank pressure and isnt the pressure regaulator.My info shows that the this model uses a fuel pressure regulator but looks like it is part of the pump assembly after doing more research on it.

Is there any way you can get the pressure re tested with a different fuel pressure test gauge at all as this pressure reading is still to high if this is PSI pressure?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I mean I test other cars with it and it gives the correct reading
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

With the pressure this high and the pump replaced (which came equipped with the pressure regulator) and the pressure still high the only other thing I can think of is a restricted or damaged fuel return line.I would check the fuel return lines for any issues.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I don't see any return lines only one line on the fuel rail
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Can you verify the year of this model as well as engine liter size?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It's a 06 Saturn ion 3 2.2
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Did your fuel pump module have two fuel lines at it

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
it did
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Here is what your fuel pump consists of:

FUEL PUMP MODULE

The fuel pump module consists of the following major components:

- The fuel level sensor

- The fuel tank pressure (FTP) sensor

- The fuel pump

- The fuel pressure regulator

Here is how it operates:

The fuel pump is mounted in the fuel pump module reservoir. The fuel pump is an electric high-pressure pump. Fuel is pumped to the fuel injection system at a specified flow and pressure. Excess fuel returns to the fuel tank through the fuel return pipe. The fuel pump delivers a constant flow of fuel to the engine even during low fuel conditions and aggressive vehicle maneuvers. The control module controls the electric fuel pump operation through fuel pump relay. The fuel pump flex pipe acts to dampen the fuel pulses and noise generated by the fuel pump.

It is a fairly simple diagnosis for high fuel pressure as seen here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hr04zla4vnbrrv/f-03-23.gif?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgd28jgygab1y1b/fue-03-23.gif?dl=0

According to that diagnostic chart on your model here your fuel pressure is above 60 psi and this leads to replacing the fuel pump module.It may be that the new replacement is faulty needing replaced again under parts warranty.

Let me know if you need anything else and feel free to rate my help here.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
you think I need to change the fuel pump out?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Hello????
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Man I see you are online and have been for some time.. You had me rate you so you could get paid and now don't want to help me figure this out??
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

I apologize for the delay as I had to run out yesterday and couldnt get back here.I dont see any rating left yet.

According to the diagnostic flow chart above the high fuel pressure leads to the fuel pump again.As long as you have no damaged fuel lines the fuel pump is creating to much fuel pressure needing replaced again.This is causing the running issues here.

Thanks Pete