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Amedee
Amedee, Saturn Technician
Category: Saturn
Satisfied Customers: 24814
Experience:  ASE certified Technician advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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Saturn Vue: 2003 Saturn vue v6 , 2 problems may be related.

Customer Question

2003 Saturn vue v6 , 2 problems may be related. I have vehicle running at any rpm and as soon as I step on the brake peddle its like I turned the key off. If you release the peddle before it stalls it revs right back up. Second problem is if you let it go to an idle it starts surging up and down then stalls. Don't know if the 2 are related or not. I have had the throttle body replaced and the throttle peddle no change. Any ideas? Check engine light on says throttle posission not learned, I went threw the sequence to relearn still has same code.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Saturn
Expert:  Eric replied 1 year ago.
HI,

You have either a vacuum leak or intake manifold gasket leak. With engine idling, you need to spray each vacuum hose, including the vacuum hose from the brake booster to the intake and the pcv valve hose, one at a time, as well as around the base of the intake manifold. At whichever you spray that the idle smooths out, replace it.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok that explanes the surging and stalling but doesn't explane why when I step on the brake peddle it shuts down like key is turned off. Is there something electrical that ties the brake into the ignition?
Expert:  Eric replied 1 year ago.
HI,

Actually that explains the engine cutting off when you step on the brakes. Your power assist is vacuum operated off the engine vacuum. A vacuum leak or air intake leak is worsened by stepping on the brakes and can be severe enough to shut the engine down. Doesnt happen alot, but enough to be tied into the vacuum leak
Expert:  Eric replied 1 year ago.

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Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok I clamped off the vacuum hose going to brake booster and car still shuts off when you step on the brake, so I know there is more to it than just a vacuum leak. Is the brake light system tied into the computer or something that would cause this?
Expert:  Eric replied 1 year ago.
HI,

Brake lights are not tied into the PCM or any other engine management system and is not related to this.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok I found bad pcv valve, replaced it now idles fine no more surging but still shuts off as soon as I step on the brake peddle. Disconected brake booster hose and pluged off, runs great, but I have to start it in neutral in order to put it in gear because as soon as I step on brake it dies, set ebrake and put it in gear it stays running fine just can't step on brake peddle. Any ideas?
Expert:  Eric replied 1 year ago.
HI,

I will have to opt out and open this up to the other experts as I just dont see the correlation after the brake booster vacuum is taken out of the equation.

If another expert has an idea, they will reply back in here
Expert:  Amedee replied 1 year ago.
Hello and welcome!
Different expert here.
Does the engine start if you keep the brake pedal depressed while cranking it over?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No
Expert:  Amedee replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for that information.
I bet your fuel pump is not running when you depress the brake pedal.
This is caused by a bad fuel pump ground. The brake lights share a ground with the fuel pump on this vehicle. If there is a bad ground, it wont make good connection when both circuits are activated causing this issue only when stepping on the brake pedal.
Locate the ground for the fuel pump, reverse lamps and the stop lamps under the left rear inside storage compartment/trunk area and fix,clean or replace as needed. Even if it looks good, remove it, clean it up real good and re attach it nice and tight. I bet that will fix your issue.
Customer
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Raining like hell out I will try this first thing in the morning, cross my fingers.
Expert:  Amedee replied 1 year ago.
Sounds good
Expert:  Amedee replied 1 year ago.
Hello!
It'sCustomerfrom just answer. I am just checking in to see how things turned out and if you need further assistance. Please let me know.
Customer
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I haven't been able to locate the ground, i pull the left rear tail light and it looks like the wires run outside the body behind the plastic quarter panel. Do I have to remove the quarter panel?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok found the ground actually cut the plug off and soldered new eyelets on still dies when I step on brake. So got up under the dash and on the brake peddle there are to switches dont know what the top one does, but the bottem one is for the brake lights. I unplugged the top one and it is very hard to start and goes into limp mode, but if I step on brake it doesn't stall, plugged back in cleared computer disconected the bottom one for brake lights and it runs good untill I step on brakes, so whatever the top switch is for that is my problem. I replaced the switch and it still stalls so not the switch. Its whatever that switch runs to.
Expert:  Amedee replied 1 year ago.
Hello!
Can you tell me the color wires going to this switch??
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Pink and purple. I would like to just disconect it but every time i do and start it it goes right into limp mode. The other plug is blue and brown for the brake lights.
Expert:  Amedee replied 1 year ago.
Hello and sorry for the delay!
This is the cruise brake switch.
Either the wires are shorted out or there is an issue with the PCM.
Try removing the cruise fuse inside the vehicle and see if the condition improves.
Customer
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I think its the pcm, ive been having troble with the tps sensors learning each other. I went through the sequence to sinc them several times and it keeps tripping a code say sensor not learned. I suspected this from the begining but had a dealer here say it couldnt be because the vehicle runs. Ill get a pcm and try that. Thanks
Expert:  Amedee replied 1 year ago.
Your welcome.
Expert:  Amedee replied 1 year ago.
Hello!
It'sCustomerfrom just answer. I am just checking in to see how things are going and to see if you need any further assistance?
Let me know!
Customer