Hello, I am Rafael. Thanks for asking your question - I'm here to support you. (Information posted here is not private or confidential but public).
I am sorry to know about this frustrating situation.
For how long has she been doing this and what is her response to your requests
I want my information kept private.
I see. No problem, I could block public access to it.
Is that fine with you?
First, I wanted general relationship input surrounding, 'is it healthy for someone to be discussing information about their current relationship with an ex-spouse', I have spoken with several friends and family, even a psychologist and they have told me it isn't healthy, normal and destructive. This was my initial feeling from previous relationships and common sense but this woman had a destructive divorce, don't know if they ever had full closure AND she has me questioning everything I think and feel that I have had to console in others...we are the breaking up point
While on one hand each of you have the right to share with other people part of your social network and support system, it is also true that without respecting each other's core need, expectations and boundaries, your relationship could not develop and grow as a mutually fulfilling and healthy experience.
Second, to your question above,,,it initially started a little over a year ago when she wanted to borrow money and I have her a check then she broke up with me the next day, so I cancelled the check.. she went to her ex to borrow the money and he ultimately called me names then told her she never had to pay it back.....what else is new,,,,,he didn't give her a dime in the divorce...but now plays the good guy since I am around,,,prior they would fight like cats and dogs..
You have been together for two years, and to feel this uncomfortable , not understood and disrespected is very concerning, since it shows how poor your communication, mutual trust and intimacy have developed in this period of time.
Rafael, thanks for the response,, can you please be more specific and leave out the legalize and generalizations. I don't mean to be disrespectful.....yes, I believe you are sharing that the boundaries should exist between past and present and their appears not be mutual respect..
I see, then they still do have a very codependent relationship, enabling her dysfunctional and disrespectful behaviors. obviously she does not have good boundaries in their relationship. But you also said that you had to look for console from other people because of how she has impacted your life, which is very concerning.
also since the check issue, at times they have begun to go out to dinner with their two children maybe once every 3 weeks, the ex-husband had a relationship of two years end prior to any of this starting,,, he has had no steady relationship start since...at first the ex-husband told my girlfriend it would be healthy to go out to dinner with the children but I think he is a fraud,,,he had beaten and they both cheated on each other prior to getting their divorce..
If she has shown being this manipulative, to the point of getting money from her ex-husband when they have had this abusive marriage, and when they did end the marriage this dysfunctionally, then I do not he how she could justify this nor the regular sharing with him. You said he has been verbally abusive towards you, but she still keeps this closeness to him?
our intimacy is very high, communication I believe is poor about issues, she becomes extremely abusive verbally and in text -- my doctor when I try to tell her about my feelings and disapproval with her behavior surrounding the issue, but she wanted to get married and I just can't commit with these issues...
I see, then there are many red flags already, I see hoe you feel this concerned and overwhelmed, since she is reluctant to change her ways, but keep fueling their regular sharing, right?
yes I have talked to family and a couple close friends to see if what I am thinking or feeling is way off base...I have never talked to or spoken with my ex-wife about my current relationship and never will
When I use the term intimacy I am not limiting it to sexual life, but to the closeness, openness, trust, understanding, empathy and support that you share with each other at emotional and mental levels, which obviously seem to be effectively very poor, once you mentioned she is very verbally verbally and emotionally abusive.
the abusive relationship towards me started a week into our relationship -- but the first full year of our relationship her ex husband and her would text each other the nastiest things like him calling her a 'wh...' and he calling him similar names and cuss words.....
Then I totally agree with you, it would be very unrealistic and self-sabotaging to push yourself into a marriage with a person who is not even able nor willing to respect you, but who is very abusive and hurtful.
This is very serious indeed. Then what has kep you into this very unhealthy and non-fulfilling but abusive relationship this long?
but getting back to the question,,,, it isn't healthy to be sharing information about our current relationship with her ex-spouse
Taking into account everything you have described here, it is obvious that it is not, that is is even insensitive and abusive
She knows how you feel about it, and how he has been abusive towards you too, and she continues being abusive towards you, then I do not see what there could be anything healthy in these patterns.
she will tell me that I am her halo, then we have an disagreement and she runs to him with our disagreement
That's unacceptable, she is misbehaving like a very spoiled and dysfunctional child, and the biggest concern here is that this is not about an isolated episode but a chronic pattern and she is not even able to acknowledge how unacceptable such behaviors and her abuse are, and continues to be unwilling to take responsibility for them and does not want to change, but even then expects you to get married. This is very dysfunctional.
there have to multiple reasons why it is unhealthy to talk about a current relationship with your ex spouse??? can you share those specifics --- like bias input........etc..
The very reason that you do not feel comfortable with her doing that should be good enough for her to refrain herself and end such behavior, even more if we talk about sharing with a person who has also been abusive towards you. She shows inability to set and keep healthy boundaries, then sharing your private life with him does not make any sense, it shows disrespect, not caring, and willingness to hurt you even more when expecting you to take it as her verbal and emotional abuse, while expecting you to commit to marriage.I do not see one good reason to justify such behaviors.
The very fact that she willingly disregards XXXXX XXXXX your privacy and behaves this abusively obviously shows that this is unacceptable, and trying to look for further reasons to understand why it id not OK would not help, once the evidence is very obvious, it would be a very codependent approach to speculate more and more when you continue to be abused by this person and disrespected these ways.
she about six weeks ago her ex husband was asking her about our relationship and asking questions about us,,,looking for an angle of problems and she said things to him to give him ammo,,,,for example she told him about how she breaks up with me every 3 to 7 days, with the abusive language and texting, then we make up 2-3 days after -- so she told him that we have this inconsistent relationship but the text history I have tried to show her is her volatility, I don't respond with name calling and texting, I try to respond with reason which is futile...or I don't respond... so what I am saying is that she shared specifics which should have been completely off limits.. and she didn't share any positive things of our relationship, it was like she wanted sympathy from her ex spouse..
No matter how you approach these behaviors, they are obviously unacceptable, and again, tolerating any form of disrespect or abuse like this only enables it even more.
I was at her house and with my son, her ex came by and he wouldn't say hello or shake my hand when I approached, these games had been going on when I could meet him for months....her ex didn't even acknowledge my son who is 10, I thought completely classless.,,, she didn't support me at all in the situation, rather made me out to be the bad guy for pushing the situation..and I felt like she stood up for her ex, later she subsided from that but it was a week later...I could tell her and him had talked about it
This is very sad and concerning, confirming the abusive pattern in this relationship, and making it even worse, since it does nto only undermines you, but also your son's well-being.
what can be done to help end this behavior if anything?
I do not see this situation could improve at all unless she starts by acknowledging the unacceptable and abusive behaviors, takes full responsibility for them and starts working on changes.
i am far from perfect, but I have tried in this relationship harder than any other,,,if my tone is off the slightest she will not take a simple sorry or apology, she may turn it into a two or three hour affair where I literally have to sorry ten times and coddle over her while she turns her head the other way or calls me names....secondly with all her abusive name calling and texting I am willing to accept a sorry, if I get it, and an move on in 5 minutes....... I have read that information about an unwillingness to forgive over the simplest things may signal other issues for the person?
You would need to set and keep healthy boundaries and limits and be clear about what you are truly able and willing to afford in this relationship int he present and int he long run, since the tendency would be for it to get worse and not easier.
and if those boundaries are crossed then what?
I am sorry but this is very serious, it shows how serious her abuse has become and how much codependency has undermine your ability to cope, take good care of yourself and be in this relationship. It does make sense why she has not changed but felt empowered to perpetuate it, since your have been enabling her abuse.
she had plenty of other friends and close family members that she could be sharing with if she felt compelled compared to sharing with her ex spouse...
Boundaries are useless if they are not followed by clear and consistent consequences
The fact that she keeps doing the same for all this long shows she does not care and feel empowered to keep it, since you are still there taking it.
there appears to be any real lack of empathy and compassion, and her feelings for the most part override....
she has even broken up with me so then she can go out with her friends, a couple times guy friends,,she will cause or create an argument to then break up, it seems to off set any guilt ...what is this?
I agree with you, it shows lack of caring, empathy and basic respect.
will counseling help
Abuse, manipulation, codependency, neglect.
It would but only if she acknowledges the issues, takes full responsibility for them and commit to work hard on changing her ways, otherwise it would be uselses or never happen.
Does it make sense?
the codependency --- you are referring to co-dependency from her ex spouse?
The codependency between them and between you.
You have described your relationship as a very codependent reality,a dn unless one of you break the vicious circle it would get worse.
okay, how would you describe it as codependent?
she is the addict and I am the codependent so to speak
A relationship where two or more people attach to each other, share and impact in each others' lives in unhealthy, destructive ways, using emotions, feelings and expectations, words and other behaviors as means to perpetuate what they believe is the best way, whey reality obviously show how unhealthy and destructive such patterns have become.
how am I impacting her in an unhealthy way
Allowing her o use, abuse and manipulate you.
my psychologist friend believes that her ex spouse manipulates and uses her, manipulating the issues that he knows she has since they were together 12 years
he has threatened to take her children from her, they split 50-50, if she continues to date me.....
Isn't she an adult? Unless he happens to be physically abusive, both are equally responsible for everything they create n their current relationship, and to justify any unacceptable behavior, would perpetuate the codependent enabling even more.
yes she is 40 years old
supposedly he was physically abusive at times when they were married
She needs professional psychotherapy to work on her rehabilitation from codependency, and the other disorders and distortions she presents, including ending the chronic abuse she has been perpetrating all this long.
Right, but are they are not married any more, and she is now the abuser here in your relationship, and your own son is the helpless victim here.
my son was just there that one time when we could have said hello to her ex spouse, I have two daughters as well
Because he has no choice , he depends on you, and everything you decide, whether healthy or dysfunctional will continue shaping his mind, heart, personality and life. I see, then your children live with their mother not with you.
no we split custody 50-50, I am very close to my children, coach them in basketball and tennis, take them to all their gymnastics practices and meets
I see. Good for them. Just remember that everything that affects you as an individual, also affects them, since they depend on you , not only materially but mentally and emotionally.
we talk about life and its issues all the times, anything that is bothering them, disciplining my children, etc, once again I try maybe I am not the best but I read parenting articles and books..
good point, I have been concerned about the impact of her upon my children particularly if we were married,,,
I have been advised I could lose my children my prolonging a relationship with this person, I don't know the reality of this legally,
That's very good. reading books and talking to them is very important but never as essential and powerful as what we teach them with our own modeling, actions and situations in life, since they do get shaped by what they see and feel, whether they happen to be more or less aware of it.
I read to know how to communicate better with them, I don't believe we are just born
Taking into account your story, obviously it would not be healthy at all for them to be exposed to this person nor to your relationship, the same way as it seems this is not healthy for you, since it includes disrespect, abuse, manipulation and other serious issues.
with being good parents
it is not a story,,,it is pretty real
Absolutely right, that's about skills we learn from the very ways we get raised, the bonding we got, the parenting provided and every core experience from those core periods of our lives. Then we use all those learning experiences and raise our own children with the positive and negative patterns we developed, thus if we do not work on our own healing and growth, we would just perpetuate the same mistakes and issues, or develop other serious ones.
It is , that is without taking full responsibility for our own feelings, choices and actions, there is no way we could take good care of ourselves nor of our children, no matter how good intentions and love we may have.
I truly hoe you wold reflect on this and work on taking consistent actions, in order to take better care of yourself and to support your children too.
Thank you for your trust.
do you think i should leave the relationship if she hasn't already
Based on what you described here, that does not seem to be an unrealistic but a necessary decision to consider.
yes I did read recently abusive relationships book and tried to follow the suggestions on setting boundaries and responding to an abusive person, I tried to speak with her about it and she just said she doesn't want to hear about my books or articles I am reading any more;
okay, any other comments or suggestions
Do seriously consider professional individual psychotherapy as the ideal source of support for you to work on yourself, and to effectively cope with any life issue. Also consider joining a support group fr codependency, which could be very helpful in situations like this, and complementing individual therapy benefits. Finally focus on taking consistent action, for you to truly improve your situation, life and well-being.
Thank you again. Take good care.
yes I am just started last week and have a meeting tomorrow to your first line...,I will look into the support group for co dependency,, I did read codependency no more this past year and answered the two hundred questions, it says I am not codependent but I know what you are saying..
I support you. Please feel free to contact me f you have any further questions since I am here willing to support you.
okay, how would i do that, if I have further questions?
Just go directly to my profile: http://www.justanswer.com/mental-health/expert-rafael-morales-toia/ and send your questions addressed to me "Rafael", and I will reply within an hour time most of the time.
okay great, thank you for the help
well an update, she now wants to break-up, she is placing all the blame on me and says I have tried to 'hurt' not physically figure of speech in front of her ex-husband, by being at her house when he has come by to pick up her children or to drop something off for the children. I have never heard of such a thing.
so these things that she is saying with her ex-husband are manipulation of me
she probably has codependency issues with her ex-husband. what do you mean above 'as well as her ex-husband too' that he is manipulative, disrespectful and abusive towards me or her?
can I ask, are you just saying these things to try and make me feel better.
mean I know I have faults as we all do, I do try to improve all the time, particularly with her, I take notice of how I talk, tone, etc,,,,
when she is telling me it is all my fault -- she says she wants to talk, then starts sentences with 'you' did this or do this and I say to her that is not talking or trying to work it out, is this correct? I tell her it is negative and attacking.
then she says the same thing and I try to respond with reason or ask her instances where I am doing all these 'general' things she is saying I do and then she says 'see you just argue' -- what is this?
sorry I went away for the weekend to visit a buddy from grad school in LA, thought best to leave this behind for a few days...
what does the statement in quotes mean usually.....if she says to me, "I don't like who I am when I am with you", she means the name calling, cussing and the other things she has done to me -- but she just like that when I met her, she was calling her ex cuss names in text and him in return....I told her that and she doesn't have a response other than she is trying to be someone different now..
can this relationship be saved through counseling?
The other night she said that she said she never new that she did things to hurt me. I almost dropped on the floor and offered some general instances. Tonight she says that she is so sorry for doing some really bad things to hurt me and then follows it up she doesn't like who she is when she is with me. I added my comment I previously mentioned to you after.
She has been stating things that she said I did to her but it was things her ex actually did to her, I never ever did to her and did not agree to any of these crazy things. What is this behavior about, very confusing to me?
These are things I told she told me that her ex did to her and now she says no, these are things I have said to did to her??
She said tonight that I told her no one else will love her, I asked her when I said -- she had no answer, I never agreed and emphatically told I have never told that to another woman or human being in a fight or upon breaking up...
let me ask you ---
I let this woman borrow my car when her vehicle had a problem and she didn't have the money to repair it right away.
She damaged the side of the vehicle hitting it on a post in the parking garage where she works. She didn't tell me she did, actually I saw it four days later when we were going to church that Sunday. I didn't get mad, yell or scream or say anything.
The damage is $1200, that is the lowest quote. She doesn't believe she should pay for it because in her words, "I have been ______ her for two years", she has the general feeling that guys should pay for everything and that if she gives you sex, it isn't a mutual relationship like I have with every other woman in my life. Wouldn't a normal person offer to help pay for this?
Secondly, I let her charge a TV on my credit card but told her at the time she can pay me back when she has the money, she gave me a blank check for that and other things I paid for her, shoe repairs, etc...I went to cash the check and she cancelled it.....she says the same things now, "I have been _________her for two years"......what is this?
She has clothes at my house which I have resistant to give back to her until she pays me for some of the stuff above. Is this not right by me?
Thanks, XXXXX XXXXX worth an attorney.....
let me ask you in general -- other things she states,,,, she has always stated that I never take her out to dinner,,, we went out to lunch at least once per week, at least two to three times per month for dinner (keep in mind we each had our children from other marriages two weeks a month), in two years we went away to Austin (from Dallas) for a weekend trip, I took her to NAPA for four days and five days to Jamaica this past May......keep in mind we have our children two weeks a month...and limited vacation time of two to three weeks..
these statements have been going on for a year and half, including tonight -- tonight we were having a good conversation then she just started cussing me and name calling and saying we didn't do anything, etc same old stuff...
what is the norm with this stuff......I think she is trying to make up for things she never did in her marriage but blames me for not doing everything in the first two years..,,,keep in mind she started complaining about this stuff early on in the relationship and it just gets worse
what I explained on how often we went out to dinner or the three trips we took?? what is the norm with this stuff?
this woman had damaged her vehicle about five weeks ago, she initially said it was two flat tires and I noticed she had borrowed one of her ex's cars.
The vehicle sat at the lot where the damage took place for over a week, then she advised it was moved to repair shop that I had taken her previously. She mentioned this one night. She called me on a Monday morning after not seeing her all weekend to ask my advice about her car. She kept calling me her best friend, not a boyfriend. I told her I didn’t want to help as her friend. We spoke a couple times that day.
I called the auto repair place about a week and a half later and asked questions pertaining the damage and the parts required. I was just trying to help her and take care of her without her knowing about. I then texted her my comment and that she should file for insurance coverage because of the extensive dollar amount, $3500. I asked when the parts would come in and when the vehicle would be ready.
The vehicle was ready today and I texted her to ask if she needed help picking it up. I also said I had followed up with the place to make sure everything was being handled properly. I didn’t tell because I was behind the scenes.
She went ballistic in text, saying that I was hurting her by calling, that I wasn’t respecting her, I didn’t have boundaries, and I am weird. I replied I was just helping out after she wanted my help a couple weeks prior. Saying she doesn’t call my friends, family doctor, -- this is just the car repair place. I asked her if she is afraid that her ex will find out if someone says something at the car place, she said no.
Please advise, I have never heard of this behavior over something like this but was I wrong in trying to help her out this way. Maybe I should have never said something today.
okay but I called about three weeks ago or more; yes I texted her this info yesterday so I get that.
yes, a phd psychologist friend had me read this year "Co dependency no more", a book and he has offered me help; I have gone to two individual sessions with him.
I know it isn't healthy to be in love or engaged with a person like this. My friend believes she has borderline personality disorder, which I believe I mentioned to you in the beginning. Some people live with these type of individuals their whole life, I have purchased a couple books on it. I have read the Verbally Abusive Relationship, she is type two and five for sure. But if you love someone or is it not really love?
She says she doesn't want to talk to me anymore to save the relationship, but then calls me last night, I didn't answer her call at first so she text nasty stuff to me,,,
Then she calls me several times this morning.
She starts out nice then goes into calling me negative things.
Even over the past two months when she said she wanted to talk, all she said was you this and you that, meaning me.
what do these things mean?
What do you mean by fueling?
But everything in the relationship wasn't bad, there were a lot of good times -- but are you saying the things she has done are just flat out wrong, I had only one other person be dishonest with me back in college.
Sorry, we did talk last night as she called a couple more times and I picked up. We spoke on the phone for an hour or two and it was positive and she made several positive statements and invited me to her house but I could not go.
This morning, she was both positive and negative....
meaning she is enabling, reinforcing my dependency, my addiction ....??? or hers??
why does she keep calling, starts sweet for a minute or two most of the time then goes into saying negative things about our relationship....why call at all?
two days this week she admitted she loves me so much then goes into saying how much how hurt her and treated her like trash?? but she has done this for two years? -- one day I am the greatest man she has ever known and the next I could be the biggest curse names in the book.
okay, what is the rehabilitation process for this? what do I do?
my psychologist friend says to do cognitive therapy if I think about her, like "I deserve to be loved", or "I did my best and my best is good enough", say one phrase 10 times.....
she is saying that she prays for me every day now? what is this garbage.. she said this morning....and says she 'wants to know I am doing well", she recently read
she is saying that she prays for me every day now? what is this garbage.. she said this morning....and says she 'wants to know I am doing well", what is this?
Rafael, what do you mean I am following it? she texted it to me and I deleted it....explain how it is manipulation so I understand?
so why would she be doing this stuff? why doesn't she just go meet someone else or go back to her ex, well she did say she doesn't have a connection with him any longer but she is confiding in him?