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Dan B.
Dan B., Counselor
Category: Relationship
Satisfied Customers: 19
Experience:  Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor
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In Oct./11 I met a woman and we started dating. Before long

Customer Question

In Oct./11 I met a woman and we started dating. Before long we were spending all of our weekends together and were intimately involved each weekend. We talked about long term plans. We each met the others family and friends and bought tickets to be used during the next two years for entertainment.
During the 8 months from Oct. to June we never had any arguments, we shared great intimacy, lots of fun activities and had trip planned to visit family and friends around the province. Many time we told each other we loved each other and wanted a long term relationship.
Three weeks ago she came to my place on Friday , spent the night together with intimacy shared Friday evening and Sat. a.m. We had been invited to an anniversary of a daughter of one of her couple friends. In the morning she dressed in a light summer dress and I told her when we came back I wanted to take a picture of her.

As we came into the anniversary everyone greeted each other with handshakes or a light hug and kiss on the cheek. I bought us wine and asked her where she wanted to sit. We placed our wine there and mingled.
About half an hour after all had arrived the husband of one of her girlfriends in my prescence and his wife, announced to my girlfriend, her name I need a hug.
She moved close to him, let him put his arms around her and she put hers around him and they shared what most would describe as an intimate embrace which men share with their wives or girlfriends in private. I have no doubt what he felt as he pulled her close to him and no doubt as a man believe that he may have begun to have an erection which she may have felt. She showed no resistance to his holding her and actively, willingly participated. I did not say anything to him or her and did not want to cause a scene.
She and I sat where we had decided to sit and not long after we sat down the guy who gave her a hug who was sitting about 5 seats to her right who had his wife sitting on his left and she had me sitting on her right called to her by her night and said " her name come sit here, her name come sit here". Instead of telling him that she and I had decided to sit where we were, she turned to me and asked if I wanted to move to essentially move with her so she could sit beside him. I declined and told her that we had come as a couple and decided where to sit as a couple and that we should stay there. I knew she wanted to move but she couldn't move to sit beside him on her own without everyone else being aware that she had moved away from me to sit with him.

After having lunch people on both sides of us had left so one of her girlfriends came to sit on her left and the other girlfriend sat on my right. The three of them proceeded for 20 minutes or more to carry on a conversation across in front of my face without involving me and preventing me from any communication with my girlfriend. After a while I got up to go to the washroom and when I came back the girlfriend on my right had moved her feet and legs on the side of her chair in the space where my chair had been. When I came back I was unable to sit down beside my girlfriend.

After the event was over, we went back to my place. Within a minute of entering my gf went to the bedroom to change from her dress to slacks knowing full well that I wanted to take her picture in her dress, hold her and touch her which she knew I liked doing when she infrequently wore a dress.

We went back to her place for supper, played some games, slept together, made love and woke up Sunday morning together in her bed. In the afternoon we went to see her son at an activity, came back to her place for supper and ended up in bed for a while before playing a game until I left at 11 p.m.
On Monday I did not see her, but talked with her on the phone. We had made plans for me to come to her place on Tuesday afternoon and to stay for supper.

On Tuesday morning I woke up at 4 a.m. and began thinking about what had happened at the anniversary. I couldn't go back to sleep. I waited and at about 6:45 a.m. I called her. I obviously woke her. She asked why I was awake so early. I told her I couldn't sleep because I was concerned. I told her that I needed to talk with her.

Her response to me was: "Don't come this afternoon, I'm not going on the trip, It's over Goodbye" and then she hung up.

The guy who hugged??? her and his wife had been friends of my gf and her late husband for many years. Her husband had been sick for 3 years and had passed away 4 years ago.

I suspect that :
1. he and she had been involved for some time
2. there was an attraction of both of them to each other
3. when he saw her in the beautiful dress he couldn't resist wanting her close to him as they probably had been in private many times before
4. she realized that he had let the cat out of the bag in front of me so ended things with me now that she thought I knew she was involved with him
I have not talked with her nor seen her in 3 weeks.
What's going on?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Relationship
Expert:  Dan B. replied 2 years ago.

danb :

Hi. My name is Dan. I am happy to help with your question.

danb :

Give me a minute to finish reading it and I will provide an answer shortly.

danb :

It sounds like a really complicated situation. However, there may be more to it than it seems. It is very difficult to determine the nature of past relationships.

danb :

Can you outline for me again, the things that make you certain that they had been having an affair?

Customer:

If nothing was going on between them before the anniversary why did they share the way they did

Customer:

If nothing was wrong with what they shared or had been doing why would she not just talk to me about it instead of ending our relationship.

Customer:

She had told me that she had been unpopular when she was young so she was sexually active in high school, she was pregnant when she got married. I know she had a great appetite for sex while I was with her.

Customer:

Her husband obviously was unable to give her sex while he was sick for three years and then she was alone for 4 years. I question that a woman with her appetite could do without for 7 years and he had been part of her life during all of those years and then he hits on her at the anniversary and she willingly joins him.

danb :

Sometimes when people have gone through a very emotional experience together they tend to form a very tight and special bond with each other. Such as the support that these people gave her when her husband was sick. If they were there for her while she went through this it is likely that they formed this special type of bond. To "outsiders" this type of bond is very difficult to understand and often looks romantic, when it is not necessarily so. If this is the case this would also explain why she reacted so strongly and ans was so offended when she felt accused of something else.

danb :

I'm not saying that there is nothing there, more that if there is going to be a chance of working it out with her, we have to consider alternate possibilities. You will need to approach her open to the possibility that it was misinterpreted and that it is simply a different kind of special relationship.

Customer:

so why couldn't she just have explained that to me instead of blaming me and destroying our relationship.

danb :

That is a good question. If this is a bond that she shares with him, she may have simply been very offended and defensive at what she felt was an accusation.

Customer:

Why did he want her to leave me to sit with him. Aren't there boundaries in relationships that he and she should respect and also show some respect for me as her partner

danb :

When people feel accused they tend to react defensively which interferes with them responding in a well thought out and logical way. This further works against them in making them look guilty, but again, maybe wrongly so.

Customer:

What about the bond that she and I had formed not only intimately for 7 months but with all of the activities that we had shared and all the things we talked about sharing in future.

danb :

Well. That kind of thing surely does look more suspicious and requires an answer from her.

danb :

I understand that you feel very betrayed.

Customer:

I called her a week later and told her that I had never had a proper chance to say goodbye to her.

danb :

Even the thought of something like this gets us upset.

Customer:

Her response was. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, there its done and hung up.

danb :

At these times we guys tend to react in a defensive way as well and may not respond logically or in a way that comes across as caring and concerned. Instead seeming accusing and judgemental.

danb :

wow. that sounds really harsh from her.

danb :

What would you like to get from her?

danb :

An explanation? Confession? Reconciliation?

Customer:

Many times during our times together she would say when I complimented her about our great relationship Everything will be fine as long as you toe the line.

danb :

Really. I wonder what she meant by that. Do you think it's related to this?

Customer:

Yes, I felt strongly that she at least owed me after all that we had shared and all that I had done for her that she would give me some explanation. I also felt that if something was going on behind my back that because I had had unprotected sex with her that I may have put myself at risk. A few weeks after she ended things, I sent her an email to ask her if I should have any concerns. She did not respond.

danb :

OK.

danb :

I have some thoughts on how you might approach this differently in order to get that if you would like to hear them?

danb :

I just want to make sure... Your feeling is that this relationship is over and your not interested in a reconciliation or getting back together. Just the explanation right?

Customer:

In the one email she sent to me after she told me it was over she : 1. accused me of accusing her of having an affair with the guy who hugged her 2. said that the problem was that I was always right and she couldn't live that lifestyle. Was she admitting that I was right about my feeling that something was going on between them.

Customer:

Yes, as far as I am concerned the trust is gone and the relationship is over. When I called to say goodbye to her, she said something to the effect that after all the emails you sent to me, now you are calling me. I wasn't sure if she wanted me to call her to discuss reconciliation or what she meant and I never got a chance to ask before she hung up.

danb :

It sounds to me that she was: 1. more hurt by the accusation. 2. Referring more in general to a feeling that in her view you see yourself as right in spite of her different opinions or views.

danb :

This may not be the answer that you are hoping for, but it sounds like there may never be any way to know for sure what was or wasn't going on between them. Unfortunately unanswered questions tend to linger and we roll them over and over in our minds. they are very hard to let go of.

danb :

I would say that she is not likely to respond at this point. She is shut down and has checked out.

Customer:

but I never accused her of having an affair. All I said was that in my opinion the type of embrace they shared was inappropriate for a married man to share with my girlfriend in front of his wife and her boyfriend. She actually told me that she had asked his wife if she was upset with her husband hugging her and her girlfriend said no. I question whether one woman calls another to ask her if its okay for her to fool around with her husband.

danb :

Do you think you will be able to accept that you may never know? If you are still concerned you could get an STD test which would at least put your mind at ease regarding that portion. The rest, is just speculation and you may never get an answer as to what was going on.

Customer:

I have gone for an STD test and the results should be back this week.

danb :

Right. I'm not saying that you did accuse her, just that she did get very defensive and felt accused.

danb :

Defensiveness can be a sing of guilt.

danb :

sorry sign of guilt

Customer:

Why would she get so defensive if she was not doing anything wrong with him. I know that if someone states a couple of facts about a man and a woman but not actually accuse that they then think that you suspect that they are doing what she knows they are doing, feels guilty and the guilt fills in the details.

danb :

but not always. If as an alternate explanation, they simply have a very special bond based on the emotional trauma they went through even the insinuation that it may be inappropriate could be very upsetting. Think of it as being similar to if someone accused you of something inappropriate with a brother or sister. You would likely feel accused, disgusted at the idea, defensive, and very upset.

Customer:

So if she truly loved me, wanted our relationship to succeed, was doing nothing wrong, felt that I was totally out to lunch in how I felt about what they did, why was she not sending me an email or calling me or asking me to come to sit down with her to talk about it.

danb :

I'm not sure why she would behave in that way. Just that right or wrong, she really felt accused, and was upset enough for it to be a "deal breaker" for her. For some reason, this was something that she couldn't work through.

danb :

I'm really not sure why.

Customer:

Why though after the hug, did he try to entice her to leave me to sit with him? Does he have no respect for us as a couple? All of the other couples were sitting together.

danb :

It may be that he does lack some respect. He may take their friendship for granted without realizing how it impacts others. given the circumstances it was an inappropriate way to behave.

danb :

Unfortunately, it sounds like it was handled poorly on their part, maybe all sides, and it caused an upset and disruption that your relationship couldn't weather in spite of the good times and history that you have.

Customer:

Some of my friends wondered if she had previously decided that she didn't want to continue our relationship that she and her friends did what they did to get me to react to give her a reason to opt out. some felt that perhaps she was using them to test me to see how I would react when she related to her friends the way she wanted to even though she was in a relationship with me. Isn't there such a thing as relationship boundaries?

danb :

There is a such thing and they are incredibly important in relationships.

danb :

It may be entirely possible that she used this as an excuse or a moment in order to end the relationship. From her sarcastic comments about you "always being right" she may have been upset already. As I say, a really poor way to handle it.

danb :

She could have and perhaps should have handled it differently.

danb :

I sense that you are still very upset, understandably, I'm just not sure if I can be helpful.

Customer:

Even though it may not have been a problem for her, since I am part of a couple with her, if I have a concern should it not also be her concern as part of a couple. When I told her that I wanted to talk with her that's what I wanted to talk with her about. I wanted to tell her that when we are together as a couple that I felt certain things such as an intimate embrace should be reserved for our partners and not shared with friends. My question is this If he was alone with her at her home (lots of opportunities for that in previous years) and he said to her, J. I need some sex would she join him there also.

Customer:

I am aware of the concept of emotional infidelity. I feel that she in her sharing with him basically committed an act of emotional infidelity with him. That type of infidelity is difficult for a man to deal with.

danb :

It is incredibly difficult to deal with. It sounds like you have a firm sense of honor in relationships and have expectations that others have that same sense of honor.

Customer:

We had discussed and agreed months ago that if either of us did not want to continue, that we would sit down and tell the other. I feel that she has broken that promise to me also.

danb :

when they don't it is very upsetting, especially when we have so much invested in the realtionship.

Customer:

Am I right in considering what they did to be emotional infidelity.

danb :

I don't think that you are wrong. However, she may not have seen it that way or realized it at the time and unfortunately now you don't have the opportunity to address it with her.

Customer:

Regardless of their friendship and what they shared previously, there is a new relationship involving a new man and I felt that needed to be respected. Obviously she and he did not. They will be part of her life forever, so I don't wish to be there with them

danb :

On the other hand, if this relationship was innocent and ongoing, it would be hard to see it as infidelity since it has been a long standing thing.

danb :

I think that that is the right decision for you to make. It was obviously not going to be a good fit. Maybe it is a good thing that you found this out now, rather than months or even years down the road.

danb :

If you can, you would be wise to accept that you may not get the answers or explanation that you are looking for. Dwelling on it will just be more and more upsetting (unanswered quesitons generally are). The sooner you can move on and leave this relationship behind the better. Chalk it up to experience.

Customer:

I did in an email to her refer to the concept of emotional infidelity but again no response. If an intimate embrace and enticing a lady who is sitting with her boyfriend is innocent, then would they also consider going to bed and having sex as okay. She is a woman who went out of the bedroom while I was there, just wearing her panties and a short top out her back door to turn on the water tap enabling any neighbors back of her place to see her dressed that way.

danb :

I have limited time left, and I am afraid that I may not have given you a satisfactory answer to your question. I have tried and would still like to. Is there any specific answer i can give you?

danb :

It sounds like you both have very different ideas as to what is appropriate and proper behavior. It may have just been a bad fit.

Customer:

In your opinion, is it possible that they had been having an affair during the past years before I met her, continued on a limited basis while I shared with her and that he and she wanted to continue but that I was preventing them for doing what they wanted so she dumped me.

Customer:

What about the three of them talking in front of me - was I wrong to object to that. Were they also just tantalizing me to get me to react.

danb :

It is possible. Yes. I just can't say for sure from where I sit. It is not out of the question.

danb :

I think that is really quite simply bad manners. You were in a situation with new people and they should have been more considerate of you in this regard. That I do feel quite strongly.

danb :

Whether or not they were tantalizing you to respond, I can't be sure of.

Customer:

Some of my friends also said that she allowed her friends (he by hugging and enticing, they by talking ) to be very rude and not nice to me. Why would she allow them to do that.

danb :

Some people are simply quite rude. Especially when they get around old friends they tend to fall back into old patterns. This may be the only explanation for this.

Customer:

In allowing them to do that she was equally being mean, unkind and rude to me. Why?

danb :

Some people simply have a very different idea of what is acceptable and proper in different situations.

Customer:

I could forget what they did but it is how she treated me there and after that is hard to deal with.

danb :

bad manners.

Customer:

Should I call her and ask her to sit down with me to talk with her.

danb :

I understand. It sounds like you have some good friends to talk to. Give it some time and it will be OK. Just count your blessings that you found out that this was not a good relationship.

Customer:

I had contacted Just Answer earlier in January about a medical matter. I believe that I paid a membership at the time. Do I have to pay again or is the membership good for some time.

danb :

I really wouldn't recommend it at this point. As a general rule, I would give it about a month without contact then send an email and see if she is open to it if you still want to at that time. Be prepared for her to say no though.

danb :

I think it is good for some time. If you accept or rate my answer as helpful, it will simply pay whatever value you have chosen for this question. As an expert, I don't have access to your account information though.

danb :

I wish you the best. Take care. I will sign off the chat now and you can rate my answer. Thanks. Dan

Customer:

Thank you for your help.

Dan B., Counselor
Category: Relationship
Satisfied Customers: 19
Experience: Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor
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Dan B.
Dan B.
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Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor