is this done? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- broke up with gf, 7 days ago. well she dumped me. we had been fighting alot the last few months. we got in a huge arguement the night before about her job. i said some mean things which I immediately regretted. So I went over the next day and we talked. She told me how much I hurt her with what I said and she had thought about breaking up before. I apologized and told her how sorry I was and how words could never fix my dumb thoughts. She kept saying how confused she was and didn't know if she wanted to stay together. I was crying really hard, which i dont do, haha, and she was crying too . she leaned forward and put her hand on my knee telling me she needed comforting too, just by touching me. she says we fight in cycles, which we do, and dosen't know how to stop it. she finally whispered she wanted to breakup. she also kept saying she wished she could go talk to her counselor. She asked me for a hug, but i couldnt. she asked if i wanted my things, but i could barely walk. she watched me as i left. as i left she said i can come over and to her again.?? the next day like a moron, i wrote her an email saying very nicely that i truly regretted what i said . very short and nice. she sent me back a tough email, saying we shouldnt talk right now and we need time apart for clarity. she then said we "can talk again" I just need time. she ended it of course saying i could pick up my things. but then she said she was sorry for the pain she caused me, and that she was extremely painful for her. she said to take care of myself and my son and be safe. i finished my email with love, and she just wrote her name. here is the dumb part... we went to her counselor the week before and it really helped to talk. i hate counselors but she was really good. so i decided i would go get a reference from her on who i could go talk to on some stuff. this is one hr from my home. as i was pulling out of parking lot, she was pulling in when she should have been at work. i just kept driving and left. she never called to ask if it was me, but i think she saw me.
i also just found out from a friend she is going to vegas with her friends in march, a trip we were going to take soon. i am so hurt.
i wish i could take back the things i said but i cant. i want to be a better communicater, but i want to learn with her. so do you guys think i have any hope? my heart is hurting so bad i cant flippin eat. I keep praying she will call, but know she wont. her bday is next week. i was gonna drop an email. anyway, some of my female friends say if she dosent call by sat, its most likely done. they are all saying if she dosent call by then i should call her mon or tue and ask her to sit down and talk. i think things are done but i am hoping i am wrong. some think she couldnt just say its over, others think she is just confused. i am just in alot of pain and hoping someout here has a similiar experience. THank you
It sounds like things went real bad real quick, the good news is it sounds like she is hurting as much as you are which increases your chances of her deciding to stay. The bad news is she stuck to her guns over the last few days.
As for the comment that she will not come back if she does not call by Saturday is not accurate. Women take a little longer to decide........and there is not amount of time that is the norm. Typically if you have not heard from her in two weeks that is pretty much a clue.
I would give it until Friday, if she has not called by then I would suggest sending flowers to her place of work with another apologize and a request to sit down and talk. If you have not heard from her within 2 days after that send a email that you just want a chance to have dinner and talk. Let her know you will respect her choices but you want a chance to at least talk it out. If she is willing to talk with you take it serious..........this could be your one and only shot to plead your case.
Let her know how you feel about her and what you want to do. If there are problems let her know you are willing to go to counseling to work on it. If she isn't budging try asking her to compromise and start out as friends again. The key is to try and get your foot in the door. If you can then you will simply have to work hard at sweeping her back off her feet. That means flowers, calls and attention. If she isn't willing to try again you have to respect her feelings and let her go. I know that isn't the easiest thing to do, but the reality is if she wants a split you must respect what she wants.
Perfect, instead of a text send some flowers, to her work. (There is nothing like having co workers coo over her flowers to a women). Send the flowers and ask her if she will come to dinner in a few days to talk.
If you do not hear from her then wait until Sunday morning and send a email letting her know that you want to sit down and talk. Let her know it is no pressure and she can leave anytime she likes but you want one chance to talk to her and you will respect her choice either which way. This gives you a chance to plead your case, and she can go without feeling like she is being pressured to get back into a relationship with you again.
is 11 days after a fight where she says she needs time to fast to act?
the one problem is is that she works for the police haha. so i will send her flowers for her bday to her apt asking her to go to dinner with me on sunday. how should i word it .... 'I WOULD LIKE TO MEET YOU FOR DINNER ON SUNDAY NIGHT AT >>>>>>> RESTERAUNT.... should i just tell her to meet me there? and then should i say only reply if the answer is no?
and if she says no, then wait til sun morning and ask her to sit down and talk that friday after?
Yeah, send the flowers to her apt, lol. No I do not think 11 days is to soon since this is her birthday. You have the luck of using her birthday to help get her attention without looking like you are begging. If you do nothing on her day you run the risk of her feeling depressed on her birthday........when you want her thinking of you.
On the card print this:
I just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you on your special day. I would love the chance to get together for a simple dinner to talk. No Pressure, No Expectations just a nice dinner and a chance to talk. Let me know.
With any luck she will give you a call.........if not wait until Sunday and send this:
I hope you liked the flowers. I know you needed some space, but I did not want to see your birthday go un noticed. I have been thinking allot about what you have said and I was hoping we could get together for dinner to talk. Again no pressure and no expectations, I just want a chance to see you and go over our options. I will respect your choices and follow your lead on this.
Hopefully we can get together just to talk and decide where to go from here.
This is simple, to the point and lets her know her options. She knows what she wants by now so this should not be a issue. It gives you a chance to try and remind her that you love her and gives her a way to come back without groveling.
New confusion with this situation
went to the party we were supposed to go to last night. talked to her one former coworker who said she was upset about our breakup. he said it sounds repairable...but here is where it gets crazy... her best friend was there, the one that hooked us up. her husband was real nice to me, but i have always thought she hated me. i mustered up the courage and went and said hello. i asked her if there was anything i could do to get back with ex. she said she thought it was done. i poored my heart out saying how sorry i was for fight and how bad i wanted to fix things. she told me since the breakup she has hated me, but now she believes me, or "bought it" as she said. she then told me my ex was going to come up to party , but friend texted my ex and said I was there, so she decided not to come. long story sorry. friend then tells me she will help me do whatever i can to win ex back. she tells me to email her and tell her i will the things i want to fix, which i will. Friend tells me she likes me again. so she says she is going to text my ex, who is at home. then end up talking on phone for 10 min. friend comes back and says it will be ok, said ex wasn't really feeling good. then she said ex was going to see her counselor on mon??? i dont know what that means??? then she took down my phone number and said she'll let me know. this is what i emailed ex....may have been too soon to be cute...
following is a list of new rules for any guy who dates Meggan k.... 1. Accept MK has a very mentally and physically demanding jobb. Accept MK WILL be going out and drinking as part of her new job 3. Know that it is ok to go out drinking and get crazy once in a while. Admit you never dated anyone who liked to go out drinking before and it scared you. 4. Be more socially outgoing at parties!!! (this includes talking to 50y/o biker guys and intimidating friends at parties where MK may not be at) If you do get lucky enough to go to another cherry party, be yourself, the guy she fell in love with. 5. Listen, don't try to fix 6. Admit you didn't like MK's single friend because you were scared she was going to remind MK of how fun single life could be 7. Accept you ruined an important event in MK's career, and hope she we will give you a chance to make better memories. 8. Forgive yourself and learn from it if you make a mistake. MK might ask you one day if you are happy with yourself. Instead of looking at surface things, see that she cares about you and may know you better than yourself sometimes. 9. Admit previous relationship(s) was harmful to the way you act. Realize the relationships you have with females in your life are not great, but find out why and work on them. This includes your mother. Relationships are a 50/50 deal, and a relationship with MK is "always worth it" 10. Realize that she may need to dump you. Realize it was going to happen on the circle you were stuck in, be it a bad talk or another one down the road, she was going to dump you. Occasionally, you have to hit rock bottom to see your flaws. 11. When this dumping happens, regroup. This means spending alot of time with friends girlfriends, alot of self healing, and counseling. There are 2 great counselors in Birmingham. MKs previous bf went and saw one of them 2 times last week in hopes of understanding what he had done and where he could improve HIMSELF. 12. Listen, and don't fix. 13. MK is a tough girl. You do not need to step in and solve her problems. Offer words of advise, and a shoulder to lean on. She will be there when you need her too. 14. Go to a place where the 2 of you met as a means to torture yourself. Secretly, you would be praying that she would show up just so you could see her smile. Actually this rule is stupid. Cancel it. Only makes it worse. 15. Think about her all day long while she is going through classes to get to the next level of krav. Don't text her good luck, even though you desperately want to. You already know she is going make it through because she dosen't fail at things. And assume that she still looks beautiful even with a lump on her head. Also, hope she has a good time with her mom at rent. 16. Listttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttten. No fix. 17. Be respectful of how MK might feel about your past relationship. Even though you might think it is good to hold in how things in a divorce can be tough, she will want to hear and help. 17. NEVER let MK buy your son toys!! He will know when you are heartbroken and only want to play with those toys!! 18. Possibly the hardest rule. Admit when you are wrong. Admit you might not have been ready for her promotion (especially since divorce rate high in both lines of work), admit your confidence problem stemmed from alot more than intamacy issues, and and admit you have never cried so much in one week of your life. 19. Realize you are heartbroken if she dumps you because you miss her. The best thing about MK is doing and saying nothing. You may forget how much you miss sitting on a couch by her, or telling her about a hard day at work. Admit you have never, never felt this way about anyone, and accept that deep down this scared the hell out of you. 20. Wait. Hope. If you do hurt her, know she needs time to decide if she can forgive you. Just keep working on yourself, go to another counseling, and try to keep moving in a positive direction. Know she probally isn't going to talk to you for awhile. If anyone can follow these rules, they are the luckiest man alive. Love, Brian
she replied with this...
Brian, I read your email and I feel that it was very genuine and that you are starting to realize some of the issues we had. I think it is great that you are talking to someone and learning more about yourself. I am not ready to talk yet I still need time to figure things out. I think its good that we are both working on ourselves apart. I dont know what will happen in the future, I cant make any promises. Being on your own will give you strength that you may not realize you have in you. I know you are hurting, because I am to. We can never break the negative cycle until we grow more as individuals. One of my favorite books has a quote I love, "The true profession of man is to find his way to himself." Think of it like a journey were you will learn understanding and self awareness. Stay safe, and keep your head up. -Meggan
I was still planning on sending flowers for her bday on thursday, but should I hold off on the talk for another week?
Well her email back was very encouraging..........and it sounds like she does still care for you but wants time to get over the hurt and time to find herself.
I would definitely hold off on the talk..........
Send the flowers, but leave out the talk part. Just send them saying you wanted to say Happy Birthday. This will remind her of you, and brighten up her birthday. I would go ahead and wait a week or so before sending her a email about talking.
Sorry to keep bothering you. My mind is running 100mph and I still have some questions. I did order a nice $65 birthday bouqet with a vase to be sent to her house. I found out her friends are coming over to her house the day after her bday to take her out, so maybe they will see the flowers, if she dosen't throw them out. I hope that is good. I don't think she would hide them.
My other question is this. I know you read her email and said it sounds encouraging. I sent it to a few female friends and they stated how emotionless it seemed to be. Also to add to that, she is going to vegas with her friends next month ( where we were planning to go) and they are going to our favorite resteraunt for dinner on friday i found out. How does she go from sobbing saying she didn't know what to do the night of the breakup, to going to vegas, our dinner spot, and no emotions in emails???? Am I just hoping too much?? She is a cop, so maybe she can turn it off better. Right now I cant even walk into the places we went together. My female friends all said my email was really nice and cute and really proved my point.
She is going to a counselor as well. The night of the breakup she told me a few times she wished she could go talk to her, and the night her friend called her to stick up for me she said she needed to talk to her counselor more. Is that normal?
I decided to wait until march 10 (24 days after breakup) to ask her to go to dinner march 13(27 days after breakup). Do you think she might call before then? I have been reading alot and really trying to improve myself in a chance to win her back. Or am I just all around being nuts? I can't eat or sleep. All I keep doing is having this conversation in my head what i will say to her.
You are not bothering me at all.......anytime you want to talk just let me know, thats what I am here for.
I do not think he email lacked emotion........I think she was trying to keep her emotions in check which is completely different. She wanted to encourage you to continue working on yourself while she is working on herself. The last thing she wants is to get to emotional and break down before she has decided what she wants.
As far as the trip to Vegas.......I think she is trying to get out and see how she feels about being away from you. A trip with her girlfriends will give her a chance to get out and have fun without being dragged down with her feelings right now. Most women who are needing space tend to take little trips or time away with friends to discuss how they feel and try to have some fun. So this isn't anything to become to concerned about.
I think waiting until March the 10th is fine...........as long as this is after her trip. Do not try and bring it up until she has had her trip other wise she may push it off. She is likely looking forward to this girl time and if you work it out before the trip she may wonder if she can still go.....thus she may say no to dinner. Wait at least a few days after the trip before you call her regardless.
I think if she calls it will be after her trip........when she has had time to relax unwind and think about what she wants. Women talk to each other about their problems.......so she is going to want to view points of her girlfriends before she makes any decision regardless.
no her trip is march 20, 7 days after i planned on talking to her. also our one year anniversay is march 17, so i was hoping on talking to her before then. i hate to let her go to vegas and things be up in the air haha.
so you think she is being emotionless on purpose?
the other thing is i am not supposed to know about this trip or her dinner on friday.. friend of a friend thing.. so that make look odd if i waited til the week she got back. also by then that would be 6 weeks, and that is a long time for me to hope and wait. am i being to anxious ? i dont know if i can wait that long?? i am so confused i just dont know what to do..
also you dont think she will call before trip, even after flowers?
I think asking her before her trip is a bad idea........she needs this time to decide what she wants to do and to be with her friends. Though if you think you can not make it then talking to her before can be done. If she puts you off then you need to just sit back and wait it out....no pressure.
As for asking her the same week she comes back that should not pose a problem. It is unlikely she will put the two together. Giving it time is the best thing you can do........I know 6 weeks seems like torture, but in the end it is giving her time to decide what she wants without pressuring her. Pressure is the quickest way to make her walk.
I know this is tough........but you need to give it your all by going out and enjoying yourself. Staying at home and waiting is making this harder on you. Get out with your friends, go to the movies and just have some fun yourself. This is just as much about you as it is her. If you are not working on yourself she is going to sense this quickly. By getting out and having some fun you are helping yourself even more.
im a little confused too, previously you said she should know by 2 weeks.
should i say anything to her march 17 our anniversary?
i m a little confused, previously you said she should know by 2 weeks
Yes she should know by two weeks..........but the problem is she has planned a trip with her girlfriends, which in women world simply means she needs some girl time to decide what she wants to do. You are past the two week marker and contacted her earlier then you should have thus its almost like starting over from scratch.
If she did not have this trip coming up I would recommend the 10th......but the trip is a BIG DEAL in women speak. Think about it this way, what she is doing is looking forward to getting out of town with just the girls. This is her trip to talk to the girls, get a little wild and get some real girl bonding going. (In other words, talk to them about her relationship problems). If you call her a week before the trip, then the trip has very little meaning if she makes a decision before the trip thus she will likely tell you she still is not ready. By giving her the extra time you look better.......simply because you are respecting her choices and space. Since her girlfriends are telling you about the trip and talking to you that bodes well for you. (In other words, they are likely to encourage her to get back together with you). The trip is a great way for them to remind her how much she loves and misses you.
Girls need time with their friends.....just to talk and go over everything. This is a good opportunity for you. I know you are worried that she is going to get out there and maybe meet someone or possibly get over you but the chances are better that she will get out there and spend the time with her friends and think about how much more fun this would have been with you! Thus encouraging her to get back with you.
If you trust nothing else I say..........give it time. If she wants to work this out she will likely call you within a few days of getting back into town. She will be relaxed from her trip and ready to make her decision if she has not already. I would wait around 5-7 days after her trip and call her then if she has not called you by then.
As for the anniversary, this works out well to. Here is what you need to do, go ahead and send flowers again. On the note, tell her you were thinking about her and would like to get together for dinner in the next week or so to talk. Leave it open. this way she knows what you want and knows it will not interfere with her trip, it leaves a opening for her to call you after the trip and if she does not it leaves a opening for you to call. Win Win situation.
sorry did not mean to put the other expert thing, i thought you were gone and i was still looking for advice.
thank you for all the help
Did you get my above response about the anniversary?
i just did yes...
so most likely from what we've said tommorrow will be just a thank you or possibly nothing
Im sorry im having a hard time with this, i am just so regretful
I would expect a Thank You email......maybe a phone call. If your real lucky a chance at forgiveness. Though you have to keep in mind that she may be waiting until the trip to really think about this. Women tend to put off big decisions until they have a chance to talk to their girlfriends, even more so when it comes to relationships.
It sounds like she still loves you.......in fact a great deal or she would have already ended it. I think she is second guessing herself right now and wants time to make sure she does what she really wants to do. And that is a good thing, while she could simply be trying to string it along until you give up I do not think this is the case based on her email and what her friends have said. Her email was very reveling in what she wants and needs. Right now she is still feeling a little ticked off about the fight, and she is still in love with you. Her heart and her mind are waring with each other and so she is taking time to make sure her choices are right.....and like all women a chance to hash over it with the girls is bonus material.
I know this is hard.........been there done that, but the fact is if you push her she will run harder. By respecting what she asked for you are showing her you respect her and giving her more reason to want to give you another chance.
HER REPLY TO FLOWERS.......
Brian, I got the flowers they are beautiful and they smell great. I put them on the dining room table. I am working all day today. I am supposed to do two or three buy bust today. I am a little nervous, hopefully I can get the girls to flip and get a little higher up on the dope scale. I hope things are okay with you, and I hope Brett is good. Take care -Meggan
SHOULD I MAKE SMALL TALK BACK ??? OR LEAVE THINGS ALONE????? SHE LEAVES FOR WORK SOON!!!
WAS GOING TO REPLY WITH THIS DONT KNOW IF IT IS TOO CUTE, BUT SHE SOUNDS LIKE SHE WANTS CONVERSATION?????
Meggan, I am glad you liked the flowers ( wasn't sure how many water bottles you had left so I sent vase). Seems like a crazy day at work, especially on your birthday. But is does sound like you are moving up the ladder fast, so great job. Brett is doing awesome, really fired up about the Dog Show this weekend.
Have a Happy Birthday (weekend)! Love,Brian
this is what i ended up sending...
Meggan, I am glad you liked the flowers (wasn't sure how many water bottles you had left so I added a vase). Seems like a crazy day at work, especially on your birthday. Good luck with the buys today, I'm sure you'll do fine. Brett is doing great. He is really fired up about the Dog Show this weekend. Have a Happy Birthday (weekend)! Love,Brian
I am so sorry I was away when you replied..........I had to step out for a minor situation with my son. The good news is you replied and trusted your own instincts with the small talk. Which is a good thing........the last thing you want is to ignore her. The message you sent was upbeat and followed along her lines so no problems there. I am very pleased that she emailed you about the flowers........and seemed happy to get them. If she wanted to end things she likely would have ignored it or used it as a excuse to be mad at you since she did ask for space. The fact that she was not upset about it bodes well for you.
I do wish I had seen a little more emotion from her..........but that is really to be expected. I think she is trying really hard to mask it by bringing up her work. Which I think is a good thing.
I know this is hard..........but you are playing all the right cards, and at the right times. I know your first instinct is to confess love and beg her to come back, but that is the wrong approach with her. She is a strong independent women and as such you have to show her that you respect her Independence and can fit into her life at her side, which is what all women truly want.
If I do not talk to you before the anniversary go ahead with another flower arrangement with a mention of maybe getting together to talk soon. Then wait it out until after the trip to call or email her if she has not called yet. This is the best time to try and get together as she will have had enough time to really think about what she wants, plus her girlfriends opinions on the matter. (Lets hope they were serious about liking you)
If you need anything go ahead and post. I am generally online most everyday but sometimes I have to step away for errands but I will get back with you within a few hours.
thanks for the reply. i was nervous because i called the flower place and they said they were there at 9, but she didnt reply til 10:30. i think my was note good though, like i said she seemed to engage in a little conversation.
she was always hard to read emotion wise, even when times were good. i guess now is just a waiting game.
2 thoughts ive heard from friends...1- she felt obligated to make small talk due to the gift. or 2- her saying she was nervous about her day was a great sign she told me an emotion?
i overread things sometimes so tell me if i am wrong. i thought it was good she told me where she put the flowers, like she knew i knew where that was.. i know strange thought. then she hoped my son was good, but i was ok? overreading???
I think you are over reading it a little........but that is natural, when communication is this small we all look to find some hidden meaning in a other persons words. I do think that since she told you she was a little worried about her day that is a good thing, she is confiding in you her feelings which is always good.
I do not think she felt obligated to make small talk.......if that was the case she would not have asked after your son. I think she is trying very hard to hind her emotions for fear that this may lead you one way or the other when she has not decided yet herself.
Well, her friend who I won over on Saturday night emailed and said.." she liked the flowers. :)" .... Sadly this friend isn't going to vegas or dinner tommorrow.
That last line you wrote was very strong. Last week I was just lost because I assumed it was over. Then after the party and our 2 emails I thought I had a small shot again. Then today everyone, including myself, thought that we would probally get back together in a few weeks. You are right...there is still a chance she will tell me its over. I went from done to just wait and she'll be back.. to 50/50. I just have to keep hoping and working on myself, but now its not a waiting game, there is still alot of hope.
I see in her emails she still loves me. I just hope by making all the right moves, I can increase my odds.
I just want you to understand there is a chance she may not know yet, I do not want to damper your hopes because to be honest I do believe there is hope here. If not I would be writing to you in a different direction trying to get you to understand it is over. I do not pull punches Brian, I will tell you like it is and hope that you understand this. If I did no think you had a chance I would not be encouraging you to keep trying.........
I do strongly believe that she loves you, I also strongly believe that if done the right way you have a very good possibility of getting her back. The key is keeping all your ducks lined up and doing this the right way.
The email from her friend is VERY encouraging.......this shows that your girlfriend not only talked about them but was happy about them. I am pleased with the progress so far and I also think we are in the right direction. While no one can guarantee that this is going to work out, the reality is your chances get better every day.
Thanks for the reply. The nights are the worst, I am a firefighter so i just sit up all night watching tv. the minute i lie down in bed alone my fears all come rushing out.
I am really hoping her friends will see the flowers tonight and like them. hell i spent alot of money on them, they better be nice. But I have come to a realization after all our talks, as hopeful as i am she would suprise me with a call, i doubt it. The end of her email last week said alot about "figuring things out" , "being on your own", "journey", and "grow as an individual". while yesterday i feel was positive, i dont expect a phone call soon. today she is with her friends, tommorrow family, and all next week she will be at school 2 hrs away.
one last question. she has told me even when we were together that she wanted to be sure. is this something that can happen on her own? or is this something i will have to prove if given the chance? I guess the stupid thing is right now is i know she is mad, and she has told me she wanted to breakup before, but what is her head and heart warring? i know her heart loves me, but is her head saying can she trust me? or is it saying test the market, can i forgive him, or is he the right guy for me. she has always told me i was the first guy she could ever be herself around.
the other good positive is she hasn't ask me to come get my stuff in the last 2 emails haha. the night of the fight, and her email the next day both said to take my stuff when i was ready. so maybe seeing my clothes and crap is helping. ok who knows.
I know the nights are hard........they are the hardest on just about everyone. Your used to her being there or at least the knowledge that she loves you and wants to be there. I can tell you the easiest way to get past the nights is to wear yourself down. Make sure you do not go to bed until you are tired and then when her memory pops up think of something else. It is not easy.......but if you consistently change direction with your thoughts it helps.
As for the call, I would say no. As much as we both want her to call she likely will not yet. She sees this time as both of you growing, and to her a call may impede that. The last thing she wants is to mess up all that has happened. While you may not see it as good right now.....she does and for that reason you have to respect what she wants to do. Her comments about your "Journey" and finding "Yourself" is her way of saying that she is concerned that you both are losing yourself in the problems of the relationship. While the relationship may be about two people.......the fact is many people lose who they are and begin to think of themselves as part of a couple and not a individual, which can be a very scary thing for a strong independent women. The problem is it isn't you who has a problem with being part of her she is afraid of losing herself.
I wish I could say that this is all about time........but she has her own demons to address as well. Her counselor is likely helping her learn how to address them. Since she is a police officer this complicates things as well. The reality is she sees the worst in people every day, so when things hit a rut in her own life she immediately allows her fears to take over. I am assuming her counselor is helping her deal with these issues.
The comments about the "Journey" etc are just as much about her as they are about you. She is testing the relationship to see how it fares with strain. She is testing herself to see how she copes with all this........she wants space to see how you are dealing with it. Deep down she is 'warring" with herself because she loves you. She knows she loves you but her mind is replaying all of her own insecurity's and fears and she isn't sure which one to listen to. I wish I could tell you that eventually the heart will win.......the fact is it does not always more so when the women is afraid.
As for proving to her......you are already doing this. By respecting her choices and working on yourself instead of pushing her you are proving to her that your love is strong enough to endure this strain and still be there for her when she is ready to come back. When and if her heart wins out you will have to prove to her again by being strong enough to continue with counseling and continue to grow with her. You must respect her choices always because this is something big to her........independant women often tend to run from men who want to smother them with attention or men who want to be with them constantly. Giving her space and being there when she needs you is not a easy job.......but with time you will learn how to keep a easy balance.
As for the flowers.........lost costs. That is a stinky fact I know the theory is that love don't cost a thing and that true love needs no frills. Thats a load of crap! While no good women expects you to go into debt to impress her the reality is women love to feel loved. Society has imprinted that a man in love sends flowers and candy and pops the question with the biggest ring he can afford. While a women does not expect this......she does secretly want it. When we fail to do something (Even a small gesture) the women tends to feel like she is less loved or not as desirable as other women. While not every women is like this the fact is every women has a small place put away that wants to swoon over her lovers advances.
While it would be awesome to not have to pay........that is just reality. Though I do have a excellent tip for saving dough and still impressing her. Stop at a discount store like Walmart and pick out the vase as well as several bunches of flowers and arrange them yourself (Do not forget the greenery and baby's breath) Grab a small card that looks like the florist ones and ask a friend (Preferable someone she does not know) to make the delivery. You can get a awesome arrangement for less then 50 bucks that looks like the 200.00 flowers........no ones the wiser and you look like the hero!
Thank you that was alot of great info...
ONE NEW UPDATE...
got a text this morning from friends husband (from party last week that i won over) that she forwarded my emails i had with friend to gf.. this is what is said...the one at the bottom was the day after the party you might have to read backwards...
That is awesome!!!! She emailed me and told me she liked them. She told me a little about her day at work, so i thought maybe just a small conversation would be ok. I emailed her back telling her I was happy she liked the flowers and hoped her day went good. I think she knows how I feel now after the email the day after the party. I really laid it all out. Now is the hard part. I just have to sit back and wait. You would be proud of me, I just ordered the book "I Love a Cop: What Police Families Need to Know" a few days ago. Thanks for letting me know, you really just cheered me up. Brian
From:XXX@XXXXXX.XXXTo:XXX@XXXXXX.XXXSubject: RE: hope this is right addressDate: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:32:28 -0500she liked the flowers. :)
From:XXX@XXXXXX.XXXTo:XXX@XXXXXX.XXXSubject: hope this is right addressDate: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:23:47 -0500Gina,I found this address on an email Meggan sent me a few months ago. I hope I am writing to the right person. I sent Meggan an email this morning. I tried to be kind of funny, to break the ice a little, but I just told her about alot of the things I realized and how I want to do it with her. I did it as like a list of things to do when dating her. I dont know, it may have been too soon to be cute. Thank you again for last night. Like I said I wasn't sure if you ever really liked me to be honest. I truly hope you understand how much I love your friend. I just dont know how to act in this situation. More time or less? Contact or none? I guess if I just give her space, she will hopefully miss me. If there is anything I can do or say to Meggan, please let me know. I'll just send flowers on her birthday. I apologize if this was weird for me to write to you, like I said I want to do anything I can. Thanks,Brian
is this good the friend did this or pushing too hard? not sure what to think
The friend is forwarding them to your girlfriend? If this is the case you may want to not email her again..........unless she emails you first and then keep it simple. This can be taken a couple of different ways.
1) The friend mentioned talking to you to your girlfriend, and your girlfriend asked for copy's because she was curious.
2) The friend is trying to show your girlfriend that you are working on getting back together. Now this could work for you or backfire.
Either way I wish this was not happening.......its hard to determine what is being said between girlfriend and the friend. Nothing you emailed would be bad so I am not concerned about that. I just want you to be careful of anything you write in the future.
You may want to avoid contacting her at all.......if she emails you back be careful of what you say and keep it simple. Do not under any circumstances inform this friend that you are waiting until after the trip to contact your girlfriend nor should you mention that you are sending anything else. Keep it causal and friendly.
Got it. No that was all the contact we had. I agree, I dont know if this is good or bad. Her husband was nice to warn me.
I think she does want to show i am trying to be better, but i dont know if gf will like the fact i reached out to one of her friends. i think her intentions are good...but this could backfire. I am kinda mad but hopefully it helps. she is the one that talked gf into going out with me in the first place.
and yes thank god i did not write anything in there about a timeline or plan.
I am concerned as well..........though it is not as bad as it could be. I think in the end it is going to be OK. She may be irritated, but then again she may see it as you simply wanting to work on any problems you were having.
It was great her husband contact you..........though do not mention this to the friend, or even your girlfriend should you speak with her. (We don't want him in the dog house).
LAST ONE TIL ST PATRICKS WEEK...
last night i got kinda mad thinking about all this...you would think by now something? i agree with everything you said about her demons, the vacation, and all the journey stuff. so i put things that happened since breakup into 2 categories...
1- Friend is on my side ( i believe the friend was trying to help me now with forwarding emails, not sure how gf reacted)
2- Liked flowers, even seemed happy
3- said not ready to talk yet, as in she may be soon
4- small talk during last email, especially about being nervous
5- seemed happy i was understanding probs in email i made about dating her
6- i havent called and begged haha
7- giving her space
8- has not officially said its over??
1-three emails since breakup
2- wants journey of understanding
3- friend could be pushing too hard
4- scheduled vegas trip 2 days after breakup fight
6- may have seen me as desperate by emailing her friend
7- she read email on new rules, knows i am readding new books, been 2 weeks, knows i am willing to change, and still is not ready...so can this time be good or bad??
8- in email to her and her friend, i wrote i have to sit back and wait. may appear desperate
so thats where im at even. i wish i knew what to think about friends email. i keep rereading it, and i dont think i said anything really bad. i am trying to improve myself in this time off, but it is like tempered enthusiasm. like when i read the chapter on femaile cops, i wanted to call her and say "I get it!", but i cant. ill let you know in a few weeks whats going on.
I know it seems like things are stalled.........but the fact is you are on the right track. The fact that she has not set up a time to talk and or just end it is a good thing. Women do not typically drag things along. Right now she isn't sure what she wants, and she is waiting for her vacation to give it some real thought. Being that she is a cop she may be putting this off because she does not want it to interfere with her job. The fact is her job is dangerous......allowing herself to become distracted can be a very bad mistake in her line of work.
I really do think this vacation is her time frame........I think she plans on using it to do some real thinking and talking with her friends and to decide where she wants to go with all of this. If you push her before then the answer may not be a good one.
I understand this is difficult, but you can do it. Your options are pretty limited right now, you either wait it out or walk away. Pushing her is the same as walking away as you are going to put her in a position she does not want to be in and tell her that you have not changed. Thus giving her the reason she needs to end it officially.
Try to hang in there.........I am here if you just need someone to talk to. I would also suggest a counselor in your area to talk to face to face. Some down time may be a good idea as well. If you have some vacation time maybe go away for a weekend or a few days to relax. Either way you have a few weeks to wait.........try not to over think it or dwell on it otherwise you may cause yourself to get upset and make a bad move. Resist any urge you have to do any thing rash. The next couple of weeks are going to be the hardest but if you can stay strong your chance of winning her back increases greatly.
Thanks for reply. Yes i genuinely want her back so i have no choice.
the plan i guess is this... wait until march 26 (40 days later) . call her and ask her if she would like to go to dinner that weekend (its a thur so that should be enough to plan ahead). she will be back for 3 days since then, so that should be enough.
I am still unsure as to what to do for anniversary on st patricks day. we had a great first date last year on this day, so i dont know what to think. will she even remember it haha??? my female friends say do nothing, and i dont want to push her with flowers. i thought about maybe a card or small flower arraingement that said "Maybe next year.." or something.
One line I am getting concerned about.. The email i sent to her and her friend said "now i just have to wait"...so she knows i am waiting on her. i hope that does not put pressure on her to make a quick decision. she is gone all week to school so i know i wont hear from her this week. you said my 2 emails to friend were ok. here is why im worried. i got 2 positive emails from her this week, especially being happy about flowers. i just pray that the friend forwarding wasn't one too many on my behalf...
It's very hard to accept that waiting is the right answer, but rest assured i will. it is also hard to know that i might have to go through this hell again. but it is the only way. so now i will be nervous if she calls before then. there is alot of complications, but i hope we can work them out. i believe you when you say i have a chance, i just hope its a good chance.
keep you updated..
I would still recommend a flower arrangement on the anniversary with a small note saying you hope you can get together in the next week or so to talk. Leaving it open gives her the flexibility to wait until after her trip but also reminds her that the talk must take place soon.
The comment "Now I just have to wait" Isn't a big deal, it just tells her that you still love her and plan on giving her the space she needs until she is ready to decide. No big deal either way.
Sounds like its time to just dig in and wait it out........if you need anything let me know.
ok, i will definitely do flowers on anniversary...
another thing popped up i am curious on your opinion. the sunday after i wrote you i had to take my 3 year old to hospital due to dehydration. Ended up having GI infection. his mom and i assumed it was flu, long story. he got out today and is doing great, but it was a bumpy 4 days. read alot of good relationship books, including the loving a cop book. he is totally fine now and i got some great pics of him on his last day there. i was gonna email them to family and friends who were concerned about him, so should i include gf? i dont know if her feeling would be hurt she didnt know about it when i tell her in future. i didnt call her because of the no contact rule and i didnt want her to talk to me out of guilt. she does truly care about him, but i am not sure what to do.
thats why i go to the pro....
i dont know i should still avoid contact i guess
Sorry about the delay, I was away for a few days. I would not suggest sending them to her. Simply because it could look like you are using your son to try and get contact. While she will of course be concerned, the reality is you do not want to chance that she may think you are using this.
Ok, just needed to vent a little. I know we have talked about this alot, but today is just tough.
Had a rough talk with female friend this afternoon. Today is 3 weeks. 3 very hard weeks with 10 days to go before anniversary. She has been helping me out alot talking things through. When i saw her at work she asked if meggan called. I said no, and told her today was 3 weeks. She really suprised me then. She said she should know by now. She thinks "she is staying away to keep her emotions away". " She is thinking if she dosent talk to you or face you, this pain will all go away". She just kept reemphasizing by 3 weeks she should know, she probally just dosen't want to hurt me. But she said she would still help me and deliver the flowers next week.
My friend texted me this "THE PART THAT BOTHERS ME IS THAT SHE HASNT INITIATED ANYTHING... DONT GET DISCOURAGED, JUST BE PREPARED"
I dont know, that made me feel really bummed out. Her emails having been getting more positve (not that it means much). Meggan knows how I feel. I told her i would wait, and i wrote it in the email to friend. I know i cant push her. You have told me it is good if she dosen't call. Her email about the journey and stuff, I thought things were maybe swinging to my side. It's like i go from feeling positive one second to negative the next. Do you think she knows and is deciding if her decision is right, or she hasn't made up her mind??
I went to a counselor yesterday, just to work on my relationships and how i handle them. I wanted to call her the minute i got out and yell "i get it!!!!!"
I am sticking to our no contact plan. I just wish I had some indication besides those few emails. I know I have written most of this to you already, the friend just really messed up my thinking. thanks for letting me vent. I hate not knowing , but i would hate her to be gone altogether worse.
Feel free to vent anytime............I know this is tough, but I am proud of you. (I know that sounds Corny) but the reality is this is likely one of the hardest things you will ever have to deal with and the fact that you are following her wishes speaks volumes of your determination to make this work. The good news is it is telling her the same thing.
As for should she know.......I will agree with your friend Megan. Yes she should know, and she likely does know. But something is holding her back from voicing her decision. I believe based on her emails and what has transpired so far that she knows she wants to be with you, and knows she will likely take you back, but is waiting to be sure. I do think the trip plays into this a great deal. I think she wants this time to give her a chance to talk to her friends as well as sit down and see how she feels about it all.
I do believe that if she had already decided to end it then she would have already said something or been upset about the flowers. I also believe her emails would not have been positive had she decided to end it.
I can tell you based on everything that has happened that she has not decided to end it......I firmly believe that. Either she knows she loves you and wants you back.....but is taking a little time to make sure or she still has not decided completely. The chance that she has decided to end it is so slim it isn't even worth worrying about at this point. If that was her decision you would know already.
Of course you do have to prepare that she has not made up her mind yet and may still decide to end it.........but I just do not feel this is the case. I am not physic of course, but I have been blessed with pretty good vibes when it comes to things like this. I get a good vibe that she loves you deeply, but is hurting inside from what happened. She is angry that you simply did not get it and is holding onto that anger and using it as a way to shield herself from getting hurt again. Being a cop compounds that greatly........but I truly believe that deep down she loves you, she knows she loves you and it scares her badly. The good news is when love is this deep it tends to recover from situations such as these.
Keep the faith.......I know it is easier for me to say that then you to do it but the reality is you have good reason to hope for the best. While there is always that chance things do not work out, the reality is there is more chance that they will based on all the facts.
Well that kept me a little more positive. I get such crap from the guys at the fire station about moping around, but it's hard to be in a good mood. All the counseling I've done and with all the books I have read, I truly feel like I am ready to make a run at this properly.
When we were together , she was very private. the first time we broke up was for 5 hrs., so i decided to go to her house and talk. she wasn't there. she went to her parents and was crying when i called her. i had no idea she was that emotional. she hides her feeling pretty good, i didnt even know she wanted to break up a different time that she wanted to.
I agree, if she knows I am waiting, I think she would have told me..?? I made it perfectly clear how much i wanted to change in the first email. I said alot of stupid "mushy" things the night of the breakup, and i hope she dosen't hold that against me. that night was hell. i knew it was coming, and i almost am kinda glad now it did. obviously she needs to come back so i can prove things to her, but i can only hope. i really hope the fact that email to her friend had that thing about me reading that dating a cop book, showed her i was trying.
thanks for letting me vent. i probally would have folded or emailed her if i didnt have this place to vent.
so you think the trip is the main thing holding her back??
Well I am glad you found the site then.......better to vent here then take a chance and email her. As for the trip.......its the idea of the trip that is holding her back not the trip itself. She sees the trip as a chance to get away from home and let loose. It gives her a chance to sit back and really think about what is going on and how it all makes her feel. It gives her a chance to talk to her girlfriends and vent with them over the whole situation.
Since her job is so stressful this trip represents her opportunity to get away from all the pressure of work, her feelings and you. While you are not contacting her she also knows you are right there waiting. This trip is a way for her to get away from everything and let her hair down and really decide where she wants to go in life.
If things work out as we hope they do, you are really going to have to put some hard work into this. Sitting down with her and talking about the future is the best first step...getting on the same page is a must. Find out what she is looking for now and in the future and try to mesh with that. Love isn't always about that thumper heart thing for a women. Its also about compromise and sacrifices. And the reality is no two people are always going to be looking for the same things at the same time..........the key is to see where you can compromise at and be willing to do so. Sometimes our biggest roadblocks are those we create our selves. We get the idea that certain things simply must be our way and we stick to it instead of taking a step back and really thinking about why we want it our own way. More often then not when we do so we find that it really wasn't that big of a issue in the first place.
Trust in her........and trust in yourself and your relationship will always be easier. I do not know what caused the original fight, or even what you said to hurt her but the fact of the matter is that you learn from the mistake and try to learn to trust her to make the right choices your love will be free to grow.
Well I guess I should state the problems we were having...
We went to nashville together and got in a fight the last night. stupid crap, but i held onto it too long. we took a one week break but talked alot that week. then we were having sex issues, it seemed like we did only when she was drinking. we fixed that and that was fine. then just lots of little fights...
The final one was 2 days before the breakup. She got promoted to the narcotics unit. All she did was say how hard is was going to be for 3 months prior. everyone in there is damn near divorced. so she's there. Came home crying 2 or 3 times because of how bad these guys treat her, almost sexual harrasment. asking her about her underwear, everything. so i listened but i wanted to help. one guy in particular was bad to her. it sounded like he had the hots for her though. mind you this unit usually goes out drinking once a week.
so she had to have a party to celebrate her first drug buy. i was waiting for this guy to say something to me because he dosent like firefighters. so we get there and the guy is in his car. she runs, i mean runs, over to the car to tell him to come in. all night he wouldnt look at me, but he followed her ass around the whole night then would look at me to see if i was watching. long story short i was kinda antisocial. i was listening to what people were saying. i was trying to help make her job easier by telling her about personalities and what not. she got really drunk and was acting dumb. we were at the bar for 8 hrs.
next day i tell her what i saw. i told her what i thought she should do to get respect and how bad of a drunk she was behaving as. but the dagger was when i told her it was like she had a crush on that guy. that sealed my fate. i immediately regretted saying it. she basically said i will never respect her job and i am another sexist.
i can never take back what i said at that last fight. i was angry these guys were acting this way to my gf. i understand it is part of the job and now something i have to deal with. her first week they were using her as bait pretending to be a stripper and i flipped out too.
the other major problem we had was we met while i was divorcing. its almost done now. few more weeks. she said she thought she was a rebound. 11 months is a little long for a rebound, but i cant control how she thinks. i was never happily married, so ending of that was no big deal for me.
so thats it in a nutshell. i still hope every minute she will call, but i just have to keep hoping. she always said i was the first person she was ever herself with. i just think neither of us was prepared for her job.
Thank you for trusting me with the details........it makes it a little easier to see her side of the issue as well as yours. I do have to say that it was a rough situation you put her in, but she put you in a bad spot as well. The reality is as men we have a built in need to be the protector of the women we love and when they are put in situations such as these its hard for us to take a step back.
The fact is you must take a step back when it comes to her job. Being a narcotics officer is different then any other job on earth and comes with a large amount of strain to both the officer as well as loved ones.
Her behavior at the bar is not one which will gather her the respect she wants.......but telling her that isn't going to go over well. Her actions toward the other officer do look like she has a little thing for him, though more then likely she senses he likes her and is using this to try and fit it. When you called her on it she became upset because the reality is she knows she is going about it all wrong but isn't sure how she can use what she knows to fit in.
The sad reality is you must respect her choices and allow her room to learn on her own. What you said hurt her feelings and made her feel even more inadequate at not only her job but at learning to fit in.
I agree I was wrong for even bringing the subject up with her. Instead of listening i tried to fix. I just need that oppurtunity to explain.
I showed your reply to that friend that had me riled up about how you state things are still positive for me. she told me she agreed with alot of it, but she also says " I dont think she would have contacted to tell you its over if she felt she broke up with you 3wks ago. It's easier to heal when you do not have contact with the person your emotionally involved with". she just went through a break up but it was short term. and gf know i am waiting like a damn puppy, so you think she would have told me.
To make matters worse i was talking to an aquitance last night who had a crush on my gf friend. he told me that this girl and gf were going out on st patty day at noon. He dosent know the situation. This is were i get upset. SHE IS GOING TO VEGAS WITH FRIENDS, WHERE WE WERE SUPPOSED TO GO. SHE WENT TO OUR FAVORITE RESTAURANT FOR HER BIRTHDAY. AND NOW SHE IS GOING OUT ON OUR ANNIVERSARY ALL DAY. she had to have taken the day off. is she just incapable of being emotional?? does she even give a shit what is going on with me or is she just trying to get over the hurt and get on with damn life? I cannot understand why she seems so emotionless. i got my bike out of storage last week and almost broke down just thinking of all the fun we had going places on it. I am reading, counseling, doing everything i can to get things better and it seems like she could give a rats ass!
i am hoping every minute you are right, that i still have a chance. but this gets harder everyday, not easier. do you think this is a situation where i should start contacting her just to say damn something? i still plan on sending the flowers next week. she stated in 2 other emails that she needs time to figure things out, and she is not ready to talk yet. i am just really mad and really, really, hurt today.
I know you have answered alot of these questions already, once again, i feel like i just needed to explode.
It sounds like today is one of those days..........I knew it was coming and I knew this was going to be hard for you. Lets go though some of this piece by piece ok.
You: I showed your reply to that friend that had me riled up about how you state things are still positive for me. she told me she agreed with allot of it, but she also says " I don't think she would have contacted to tell you its over if she felt she broke up with you 3wks ago. It's easier to heal when you do not have contact with the person your emotionally involved with". she just went through a break up but it was short term. and gf know i am waiting like a damn puppy, so you think she would have told me.
One of your key statements was "she just went though a breakup" bless her for being there for you, and she seems like a great gal. But her mind frame is much like yours! She has just went though a traumatic breakup as well and is still in that mind frame that love hurts. Thus her thoughts on the matter are a little mixed up by her own feelings. As far as she broke up with you 3 weeks ago......yes she did break up with you. But she told you that she needed time to think about it all. Thus she is putting this on a probationary period. While a break up she isn't encouraging you to move on. GF knows you are waiting, so yes she would have told you.
You: To make matters worse i was talking to an acquaintance last night who had a crush on my gf friend. he told me that this girl and gf were going out on st patty day at noon. He doesn't know the situation. This is were i get upset. SHE IS GOING TO VEGAS WITH FRIENDS, WHERE WE WERE SUPPOSED TO GO. SHE WENT TO OUR FAVORITE RESTAURANT FOR HER BIRTHDAY. AND NOW SHE IS GOING OUT ON OUR ANNIVERSARY ALL DAY. she had to have taken the day off. is she just incapable of being emotional?? does she even give a shit what is going on with me or is she just trying to get over the hurt and get on with damn life?
Key statement, "You were talking to a acquaintance who had a crush on your girl" why would you take much of anything he has to say to heart? If you get angry, upset and blow it his chances of swinging in are excellent! While that may not be his reasoning the reality is he said this to get a reaction.......do not give it to him!
As for her going to these places there is a very logical and emotional reason for it if you take a step back and look at it. The trip.......could be a number of reasons, it could be she never thought about it or she could have chosen this area to see how it makes her feel knowing she was supposed to go with you. The reseteraunt.....this was likely to see how she felt about it. Women typically tend to go to the areas where the emotions are strongest when they are trying to deal with matters of the heart. This is a women thing. As for spending the day with a friend.......this is all typical women. If she stays at home or by herself she is going to hurt inside knowing what day it is. Planning to spend the day with a friend will help her forget what day it is and prevent her from hurting more. This is a GREAT sign! The fact that she does not want to be alone on the day she met you means she is still hurting and missing you!
You: do you think this is a situation where i should start contacting her just to say damn something?
If you want to shoot yourself in the foot and undermine all the hard work then sure........otherwise stay strong and trust her to make the right choice. This isn't just about giving her time to decide what she wants, this is also about proving to her that you are working on you and respecting her choices.
The reality is you still have some time to put in.......and it is going to get harder, but if you break down every time you have a bad day eventually you are going to forget to come here or I am going to be offline at the moment and you are going to make a rash choice that blows all your hard work to bits.
You must find a release......you have this site to vent, but you also need a back up plan in case I am not here at the moment. What I would suggest is anytime you get this upset is to have a plan......maybe take a shower and read or sit down and watch a movie. Get with a friend or try going to the gym. This gives you a plan of action besides siting a brooding over the problem until you freak and do something rash.
I will not be on line today.......I have to go out of state for a funeral but I will be on line first thing in the morning if you need anything.
thanks, XXXXX XXXXX down a little and stopped pacing...
the guy i was talking to actually was hitting on my gf's friend, not the actual gf. he never even said her name, but i knew who he was talking about. it does bother me that she took the day off, but what can i do. I guess it is just hard for me to comprehend that her going out having fun doing stuff we used to do is good. I understand what you are saying, but it just feels wrong.
as far as my friend, she is trying to help but making me feel like a have a slim chance. you are my positive and she is my negative. she told me once i found out gf was going on trip to forget about it. then i ran into gf's friend that night at party and things turned slightly for the better.
i know meggan has got me on hold, and i know she knows this. maybe that is too much pressure, im not sure. the night of the breakup and 2 times after she has said she wanted to talk again. i never did send you her original email, the day after the breakup. mind you , i have told you how she acted during the conversation....i dont want to send mine because i sounded like a whiny girl...
"Brian, I think it is a good idea if we dont talk for right now. Neither of us will get any clarity if we remain in constant contact. At some point we can talk, but i just need some time. Right now I want to focus on my own growth and figure myself out more. When your ready to pick up your things let me know and I will get them ready for you. I am sorry for any pain I have caused you. This has been extremely painful for me. Take care of yourself and Brett. Stay safe out there and keep your head up. -Meggan"
this was day after breakup.
it still drives me nuts that she ends with keep your head up. althought we both agree i wont buckle, it is still hard. i am doing my best and will not. part of it is guilt from the fight, part of it is truly loving and missing her. i really am trying, i just hate knowing she is having fun. i wish someone would freaking tell me she missed me a little. haha. one year is a long time, these feelings cant disappear altogether.
maybe the flowers on the 17th will at least remind her of me before her night out and vacation.
I am sitting here thinking it would be good for me to tell you the rest of the story of me and her as well. ill also tell you a little about her past, to see if any of this makes sense. i hope you dont mind reading.
we met at a party and clicked right away. we went back to her place and i actually didnt try to sleep with her because i liked her too much. stupid i know haha. i told her a few days later about my situation, which was i was seperated from ex but had to live in same house due to financial constraints. she told me she could not be involved with me and to take care. i felt terrible, because i really liked her.
3 weeks later she texted me "take me to dinner on sunday". well i couldnt so we went back and fourth texting. we ended up meeting st pattys day night and pretty much kissed the whole night, then went our seperate ways. we went on our first date that week, and everything was wonderful.
april- went to a baseball game. she got a little drunk and seemed like she was going to break up with me. it calmed down and we were ok. she didnt like my situation but liked me. also got a place of my own. still had to occasionally stay at old house due to watching my son when ex was away.
may- first person i EVER told first i loved them. she didnt believe me, thinks she forced me into saying. she finally believed me, and told me she loved me too.
june- chicago... good days, bad night. great weekend together. she got drunk the last night and said alot of nasty things. thought i cheated on her, alot. got back to hotel and she puked all night. we got home and i told her i would call her, she thought i was going to break up with her, but i couldnt.
summer... just awesome. we did "sleepovers", because she was working afternoons. she would get home at midnight and we would be up for hours just laughing. i never thought a woman could be my best friend, but she was. little fights here and there, but the best summer ever.
started divorce in october.
november- nashville.... worst weekend. days were great together but nights were bad. met her friends there. they all knew each other and chatted, but i felt left out and tried the best i could to fit in. the last night some girl kept telling her guys need years to recoup after marriage. i was actually fine after agreeing to seperation. her friends were mad at me and wanted for wanting to leave. we got in a huge fight that night about nothing. came back, and agreed to take a week off. talked to each other through email, and everything was ok i thought.
lying on the couch one night i just looked at her. i had never truly had that sense of happiness. this was good and bad . bad because i think i tried to hard not to let it get away, and i got scared.
bigger fight in november because i was making her feel bad about alot of dumb things. i had a habit of joking about other girls hitting on me, and joking about trading her in when she turned 30. in hindsight i feel horrible about these comments. broke up for 5 hrs.
sex arguement.... we fought because the only time we ever had sex was when she drank. she said it was more about spending time together , not just quickies. which now i understand.
january she got her new undercover job. hours were crazy and i already told you how the guys treated her. also she started going out with her friends more because her weekends were open. End of january i made a huge mistake. went to party with guys and make a joke about coming over after. she said she needed to sleep. i said, ok there are other girls at the bar. she forgave me eventually.
after nashville she told me alot about her past. i dont know if this will help you understand. she grew up with a emotionally unavailable stepdad, real dad is a loser. she was fine, then she went to college. got drunk alot and had one night stands. had one serious bf before me that ended really bad. i found in her apt. before me she was on an online dating thing before me, and i saw a letter a friend wrote her about one day there will be a guy for her.
she bought a book for me in january on how to learn to trust. i have learned i trusted her, i guess subconsciously i thought i was going to lose her to her job.
today... as many dumb flaws as we both have, she is the funnest person to be around. i miss just talking to her everyday. i regret so many dumb things i said.
2 things... first after reading this i realize what an asshole i could be..
and second i am curious why the friend never emailed me again. i thought about asking her something about meggan, but i know i shouldnt.
after rereading this, I wonder why she would want to be with me. just before the breakup, she said if it doesnt work out with me she does not want to ever date again. we talked about a family, houses the whold big picture. i want it all back so much. god i was an idiot.
thank you for reading this, ill make sure i hit accept on the next reply..haha
Sorry for the delay, I got back very late last night and wanted to give your replies some deep thought before posting. It sounds like your whole relationship is built upon rocky times which makes it harder to work on problems when they arise.
As for why she would want to get back with you after what you did........let me be honest, what you did was crude, a little insensitive but you were not a horrible fellow either. The fact is we all make mistakes, most larger then this! The problem is there were more little jabs then full blown problems. Your comments that you did make were mostly about other women or being available to other women. Which is not a good thing........the last thing a women wants is to feel she has to compete with other women in order to keep you happy. Your job as a BF, lover or someday spouse is to make her feel like she is IT. In other words she should know deep in her heart that no matter who walked by you would still have eyes for your GF. She should know deep down that even though you may joke occasionally the reality is you are so into her that nothing could steer you away. I think she does not know this and that bothers her a great deal.
The fact that you were still married when you met was a big blow, more so to her. The reality is men fresh out of a divorce typically do not have the best track records and it can take a while for a man to get over a divorce so she has that added concern. It sounds like this isn't a problem for you......but it is something toying around in her mind. At the end of the day there isn't much you can do to change this but to give it time and prove to her that you are not one of those fellows.
A persons past can play a role in a persons future so the fact that her dad was not around and her step dad wasn't there for her could be causing her some fears on wither you can be there for her or not as well. Support is the biggest issue......she must feel that you support her choices and decisions above all else. I know her job is hard, but the fact is she made this choice and needs you to support her route not try to fix it. The key is to take a step back from it and accept that this is a part of her that you are not a part of. Just like she is not a part of your job........being a fire fighter is a stress full job as well. She can not dictate to you about your job, or try to fix what she does not like so you are under the same rules. Instead of trying to tell her how to make it better, you must listen and support only. Let her know what you can do.......but make it a offer instead of a decision. If you jump in to try and fix it or tell her where she is going wrong she is going to take offense as she feels the need to do this herself. Asking her questions is the easiest way to support her. When she is upset about something instead of replying how to fix it ask her how she plans on fixing it. Or ask her how she feels about how she handled it. Or how she can handle it next time. This helps lead her to open up about how she feels as well as helps her see where she messes up and how she can fix it. A strong independent women does not need a man to help her......she needs a man to support her and stand by her side while she learns from her mistakes.
Thank you for taking time to reply, i know i wrote alot. As for my past marriage, I did what alot of guys do and settled. I took the safe and weak role.
You made me really think with the statement about how bad i was about trying to make her jealous. Worse than her job fight, I think about those stupid "jabs" all day long.
I thought about writing her a very, very small email to say something about this...
"meggan, I wanted to let you know how I realize how immature it was for me to try to make you jealous about other girls. It was dumb and I apologize. I never, ever had any thoughts about anyone but you. I know this is just one subject matter, but please understand how bad I am hurting now realizing what i said. love brian p.s no need to respond...
would this be too early?
i know i am in no contact mode, but would this be simple and small
No need to thank me for reading ...........its part of the job. The easy way out does seem to be common with us guys. The good part is you learned from it and made things right.
I do not think you should send the email right now, it is good that you see what happened and how it made her feel but right now is not the time. It is something you will want to bring up when you have "the talk". Letting her know that you now see how that made her feel and you never meant to make her feel like that. Letting her know that had the shoe been on the other foot you would be upset as well.
Something to chew on as well.......the behavior at the bar with the co worker could have been spurned from some of this as well. If she was feeling like she had to compete she may have acted the way she did to show you that she is desirable to other men as well. When you called her on it, she likely felt even worse about it or she may have become upset that you called her on it when you do the same thing. Either way do not bring up her actions with the co worker (sore subject to say the least) but it is something to consider.
Something I am concerned about is the comment "she got drunk" or "she was drinking" on this end it seems like a lot of drinking....of course I could be reading it wrong since we are mainly talking about the fights. I do have to ask is alcohol a issue for her? If so that could pose more problems in your relationship in the future. Now we all have fun and go out and get a little plastered once in a while so please do not think I am judgeing.......I just want to make sure this is not a big issue in the relationship.
Ok, thanks for response. haha i really want to send that email, it is sitting in my draft files, haha. When you wrote that i realized how bad it was, and plus when you said "she dosent know this" i just thought a short email would give her something to think about. i dont want to put pressure on her, but i want her to know i am working on things too. so you think this would be counter-productive?
great point , she may have been trying to make me jealous.
as for drinking, maybe she has problem. we have talked about it alot. she is the first person i dated that likes to go drinking. she does get plastered a little more often than i like, but i cant judge. she hides behind it too. if she is mad she will wait til she has had a few to tell me something. i dont know what to make of her drinking, because we would go out alot together and drink for fun. but sometimes she just took it too far.
I would not send it, but if you really want to I doubt it will hurt anything. I just want to make sure that when you have "the talk" that you have several wells to pull from when you are discussing what went wrong and how you plan on changing it. If you send her a email apologizing for your mistakes there will be little to really discuss.
If you do sent it, keep it simple and to the point. Point out what you did, why you did it (Stupidity, trying to joke, insecurity's etc) and admit that you were wrong for doing it as you know you hurt her. Make sure you mention that you are working on this because it is something that you never want to hurt anyone with again.
As long as the drinking is not interfering with your relationship now is not the time to address it. Though it is something you will want to keep on the front burner as the reality is it can get worse if she is not careful. One way to help is to find activity's that do not involve alcohol. Not making a big issue of it, but maybe suggesting a different activity every other time you go out to keep things in balance. We all like to go out and have a good time (Myself included) but it has to be in moderation or you run the risk of abuse. She already knows this so it likely is not a problem........but it is something you will want to keep a eye on.
ok i will think about it for a while.
i will try to work on the drinking thing with her, but obviously i need be back with her to do this.
Sounds like a plan........if you need anything let me know.
this is what i came up with.... i put the thing about an hr so you assumed i learned it at counseling...
Meggan, I just wanted you to know how I realize how immature it was for me to try to make you jealous about other girls. It was childish and I apologize. I honestly never, ever had thoughts about anyone but you. I spent a hour just on this subject yesterday. I know this is only one subject matter, but I wanted you to know how bad I was hurting after TRULY realizing how terrible the things I said were.
Love,Brian ps... no need to respond
Sounds great, I like the hour thing as well.........reminds her you are working on this. I think it would be acceptable to send it if you like.
I hope you don't think i was trying to break no contact rules. When I read your reply my skin crawled because i just realized how bad the things i said were. I thought that short email would help, but i could be wrong. i have been really rereading our forum here and taken into account what the therapist says. This is really the first time i have been in a relationship where i was looking to the future and truly happy.
I will not contact her again with more apologies. I will let you know if she says anything. I doubt it since i said no response neccesary at the end. I will stick with the flowers next week.
i bought the card, i was gonna write...." You didn't think I would forget about "TODAY" ??? Love, Brian PS.. I will call you next week, maybe we can have dinner"... that seems casual.
dumb question, but i put no need to respond at the end of the email, do you think she will say anything or just take it in? is a no response a good response?
also, with everything i have recently told you, do you still think i have a good chance?
I do not think she will respond.......mainly because you said no response needed. Though if she does that is a good sign, if not it isn't a bad sign either.
with everything i have recently told you, do you still think i have a good chance?
Yes I do, to be honest if I thought otherwise I would be going a completely different route. I would be trying to get you accept that it may not work. I would be pushing you to see new people as well.
The fact is I think your chances are pretty good......of course I am not a physic, and all I can base my thoughts on are what you tell me so there is the reality that she may simply not come back.
I do believe either way that come time for you to sit down with her she will have made up her mind completely and will either get it together or end it. I do wish I could read the future and tell you for certain things will work out, but I can tell you that things look good.
last one ...
the thing i think about alot at night is this. i hope you read the first email she sent, before the big one about the relationship history. that one was very cold and distant. the email after i sent the new rules, seemed almost hopeful. the email after the flowers seemed very encouraging, especially telling me about her day. so a very positive pattern....
then the friends forwarding emails, and nothing. i know we have agreed vegas is probally her deadline, and i havent reached out to her before today. i am scared the friend email threw all the good off. Like i said i havent reached out at all, but not hearing anything makes me nervous. today was 13 days since the flowers.
my biggest fear is she is going on with life and moving on without me. I have so many things i want to say, i am just scared it is going to be too late. i know and agree with you i have to trust in her and the relationship, but as a man i hate admitting, i am just scared . 2 in the morning, and i am trying to think about something else, that always pops up.
i know she is the dumper, but i dont know if she thinks about me. we dated for 11 months, and she was in love with me. thanks again, i know i wrote alot today.
Yes I have read all the emails.........they are pretty easy to read into. The first one was cold because she was still very upset and was telling herself it was over. So she was distant and cold. The second email was hopeful because she has cooled down some......she is not as angry and is starting to hurt. She was letting some of her hope come out. And the last email was very encouraging because she is no longer all anger. She is starting to give this more thought and is making up her mind. Each email is just one more on the way to her reaching the final goal of where she wants to be.
The friend forwarding the emails is hard to tell.......you may not have heard anything because the husband may have told his wife what he did. It sounds like the husband thought this was wrong and stepped in (Which is awesome). The girlfriend and the friend are likely feeling like crap that you know so it is better to just drop it and let it go. When you do get back for the talk.......do not bring it up. If your GF brings it up then you can say you understand why they forwarded it and you are not angry. This lets them both off the hook.
She could move on.........that is just reality. I will not lie to you and tell you that everything is going to work out and this is the women you will be with for the rest of your life. But I will tell you that there is hope. The fact that she has not pushed you to come and get your things, she has sent encouraging emails and her actions thus far tell me she is still very much in love with you and is still debating on what is the best choice for her. Now please do not confuse love with a fix all.......she can love you with everything in her heart and still not come back. Women and men are good at suppressing that love for what they think is best for them. The good news is love while not a fix all is a huge motivator and it is helpful.
Now I know what I said above likely has your stress level up another 10%, but I will always be honest with you. I am not telling you the above to try and get you to give up, I just want you to know that while this looks good.......the reality is it could go south. I wish I could read the future, I so want to tell you that everything is going to be OK. I do believe it will be, but the reality is no one can know for sure.
So before allowing that stress to take a good hold, remember that there is far more to hope for then to fear. While there is a chance.......there is a much larger chance she will come back. The bad news is if she does come back it will likely be on probation. Which basically means that she has already learned she can live without you, so do not push her. The next year........is crucial. You will have to continue to see a counselor, maybe even talk her into a relationship counselor. You will have to watch your actions and spend much time supporting her. It is not going to be easy, and the reality is you are both going to have bad days. The key is not allowing your frustration to come out into words that may hurt her.
I do think she thinks about you........likely just as much as you think about her. Women tend to have a harder time getting over love then men do. They allow their minds to reply every good moment and often that dictates to them about going back......even when the brain is screaming NO. The problem is your GF is not a typical women by any stance......she is very independent and very intelligent which means while she wants to follow her heart she has learned though experience to use her mind as well. This is a good thing, because women who simply follow their heart are often more emotional and tend to fight more often. When a women follows her heart, but also keeps a open mind she is far more likely to be able to keep a strong relationship.
Please do not hold back......you are not writing to much. If you need to say something do so. I know we are not always going to be on line at the same time.......and as a single parent I am sometimes unavailable for a few hours or even a day but I promise you I will get back with you as quickly as I can. Though sometimes I need to take a step back and read your emails and give them some thought.
That was a great analysis what you wrote about her emails. I read that and thought you were dead on. I remember being at work when i read it and my jaw hit the floor. THe night before she was crying and upset, then that email. At that point i still never really understood it was over. We had a really bad fire that night, after the email. long story short, the fire got behind us and we had to find a new way out. kind of played with my mind a little. well i got in my car to leave and i grabbed my phone. i dialed her number, then i remembered. that was the most likely the worst moment of my life. I needed to talk to my friend and i couldnt. luckily no one saw me in the car sobbing.
i know there is a chance she wont come back. my mind feeds into that fear alot. then other times i think how could she not. as much as this hurts right now, i am still hoping. and thats what gets me through the days right now. i try to put on a good show too. her friend goes to my gym and i try to be in a good mood there, but who knows if she notices.
on a strange side note, i have never dated before with a kid. the counselor i go to and i disagree on this subject. he is 3. she says i should never have introduced him to meggan. the problem is that i watch my son everyday i dont work, which is quite often (perks of being ff). so we would go to lunch, parks, and have fun. i watched her with him and she really has good skills with kids. we talked about having kids, even both of us jokingly agreeing it was gonna be girls, just to torture me. Anyway, how does this affect a females mentality during a breakup? I would never, ever use him to get her back. I am glad you told me not to write her last week when he was sick. i was more worried she would be upset with me during the talk, that i didnt tell her. i assume she would think about that, i just dont know that is playing in her mind.
and yes, i am looking forward to having a probation period. she said alot towards the end my actions didnt back up my words, i just need that chance to prove it.
I do not agree with your counselor on the subject either, though I understand where he is coming from. Meeting new Girlfriends can be tough on young children.....but as long as it is done in a slow friendly way there is no harm in it. Of course you want to be careful who you bring around the child but the reality is it is not unhealthy for a child to see his fathers friends.
Children that age associate everyone as friends, so a GF to him is no different then your best friend.
As for how it effects women.......it can play real havoc depending on how close she was with the child. While she may or may not have had motherly instincts for your son she does have a heart and children tend to find a place there in most women. That is why you must be very careful how you handle it with your son. The fact is if she even gets the smallest idea you are using your son to get close she would likely flip out.
It is OK to mention him........should she ask how he is doing. Just be careful to not make comments such as "He misses you" or "He wants you to come back" The fact is even if he did say it, the sad fact is it will make her feel guilt and when she takes the time to think about it she may assume this was what you were after. Which is never a good thing.
thanks , i would never use my son in that manner, so i am glad i didnt tell her.
something else i have been working on. she always thought i didnt trust her. i couldnt understand that because i never thought she would cheat on me. the more i talk and read, i think i was jealous of her job. not that i want to be a cop, just that i thought i would lose her to it. she was very passionate about it, and as a woman it made it worse. she was so determined to break stereotypes that she worked twice as hard. then when she went to narcotics, her hrs changed and that is all she talked about. just about everyone in the unit is divorced, so i am starting to realize i just assumed things wouldnt work out because of her job.
great i am realizing all this after she is gone.
one more side story...
first i need to stop talking to so many people about this. my friends girlfriend chewed me out today. i was telling them everything going on. i told her about the email yesterday, the flowers, the flowers for next week, the whole story. she tells me i am pushing her away and if i send the flowers i am pushing even harder asking for dinner. i dont think i am pushing too hard??
she never said leave me alone, but that we should not be in constant contact. i dont know if i am pushing too hard, but this made me nervous. i am starting to realize i might have overreacted yesterday, but we have alot to talk about, not just that subject. This person just told me to shutup and wait... which i was suprised to hear. im not agreeing with her on everything, but i feel if i let this anniversary go unnoticed it would be a big mistake.
am i pushing too hard?? like you have said numerous times not to??
I did not want you to send the email.......but its not the end of the world either. It sounds like your friends girlfriend has some serious feelings on the subject, but I dare say she is wrong. While waiting it out is the answer.......allowing the anniversary to pass by with no mention is not the route to go.
You are not pushing to hard, so try not to become nervous. I agree that she did not mean no contact what so ever........otherwise she would have been angry about the flowers and would not have emailed you back. We did take a small chance on the Birthday Flowers, but it was a calculated chance and it worked out well which tells us that flowers on the anniversary would go over fine.
I would be careful of what you put on the card.....a simple message is the answer. It could backfire, that is a fact. But I do not think it will. Your options are to either send it, or wait it out and call her after her trip. Either one is fine....but I think the flowers are appropriate.
As for her job, I agree with you. It is hard to hear how so many of marriages end in divorce and not be weary. The fact is the reason why they end in divorce is trust. The spouses know what happens in this division and have a hard time trusting their mates. The key is trusting.......when you talk to her this is something you should bring up. Let her know why it bothered you and how you have learned from it and plan on fixing it in the future should she decide to come back. Addressing the issues and coming up with a game plan is the best thing you can do.
I am sorry I sent the email! It was too quick a judgement on my part, and i do regret it. Not only did i get no response, which i said not to, but i feel i may now have been pushing. I ordered the flowers this morning. i am no good at putting that stuff together, so i just spent $70 and am having the friend deliver.
This is what i want to put on card, but if you can tell me something better that would be great.
YOU DIDN'T THINK I WOULD FORGET ABOUT "TODAY"
I'LL CALL YOU NEXT WEEK, MAYBE WE CAN HAVE DINNER.
that leaves her open til after her vacation. i have no idea what she will say about these flowers, but more importantly about the dinner next week. Everyday gets harder and harder. I am counting the days til next tuesday, and IF that works I have to wait another 2 weeks. I just got back from another counseling. I feel very confident if given the chance i can win her back. the problem is i dont know what is going on with her. i dont know anything going on with her therapy or god forbid she is dating or anything. i told you before i get so excited about my progress that it kills me i cant tell her. we talked alot today about trying to make her jealous and what not.
basically it comes down to me being so happy, that it backfired. i realized i loved her and wanted to spend my life with her, but i did the opposite. i tried to control the situation instead of enjoying it. I just hope i can convince her. everytime the damn phone rings i hope it is her, and i dont. she wanted me to work on myself so i am. i just wish she would give me something, anything to build hope on!
I like the above........gives a little humor as well as reminds her that you are thinking about her. The email wasn't the greatest idea, but it wasn't the worst either. Its hard to tell how she will judge it. Its better to just wait it out and see what happens. The fact that you have not heard anything back from her yet is good. I was worried that she would be upset and email you back asking for more space.
Keep up with the counseling, you may want to go ahead and write down the things you are learning. Such as the jealousy and the trust. This allows you to back track about things you want to talk about at the dinner as well.
If we are lucky a email telling you she will talk to you next week. Though she may not send anything. There is the chance that she may tell you she still is not ready and she will contact you. But I really think she will send a simple email thanking you for the flowers and saying she will think about dinner.
i know we are just speculating, but thanks. there is no way to figure out what is going on in her mind. i think if she still needs time after 6 weeks, then i am in big trouble. hopefully she will love the flowers and just tell me to call her the next week. i guess i am really hoping she would want to see me that day, but that is just wishful thinking. last year she knew about my situation, but we didnt talk it out yet. we met and just had a blast with her friends. that was technically our first date, and we would looking forward to it before this happened.
alot of stuff i read says not to bring up the relationship stuff until she does. thats why i am hoping to go to dinner first. that way we can can catch up on life first, try to show her i am doing ok and excited about the future.
i will start writing things down, but i dont think i will bring it to our talk. gotta look from the heart.
No do not bring it to the talk.......just write it down so you can take keep a record of things you may want to bring up. I do not think she is going to need more time, but it is something that she could say. If she does I would bank on it being over and she simply does not want to hurt you by telling you this. (Which is highly unlikely given who she is).
I do not think she will be the first one to call.........though if she does that is a good thing as well. I think she will go on her trip talk to her girlfriends and come back with a decision made. As far as not bringing up the relationship stuff.......that is a catch 22. While not bringing it up may seem like a good idea it can also show her that you see where you made mistakes and are eager to work on them.
What I would suggest is take it slow......see where she goes with it. If she brings it up great, if not continue with everyday conversation until you feel it is the right moment.
we are both thinking the same. i just think she would have told me if she was done. she knows i am waiting. lets hope i dont have to worry about her not wanting to talk. she has to know by after this trip, like you said she probally knows now.
I guess i will worry more about the talk when there is a date set for it.
haha another new question... shocker.
on sunday my friends invited me to the st patricks day parade. she belongs to the gaelic league downtown, so she might be there. i dont know if i will run into her, so i am nervous to go.
if i were to see her, should i just say hello and keep moving. i dont want her to think i am stalker.
its like no matter what i do she is always on my mind. its like i have a countdown to tuesday. i know we say there is a good chance, my mind feeds into that negative. everyone says just give her time, and i am trying. no more emails or anything.
do you think i should put anything on the card?? or just let her call when she is ready? am i pushing her too hard about calling her next week?
The parade sounds like a good way to get out (And if she sees you she will see that you are out and about which is good) If you stop and say hello that is fine. Ask her how she is doing and maybe a little small talk. But watch her reaction closely. If she acts uncomfortable or nervous keep it short and tell her you will talk to her later. If she seems happy to see you or acts like she wants to talk allow her to take the lead. Since you live in the same town I doubt she will think stalker.
I know it is hard....thinking about the negatives is always a human nature so try not to beat yourself up about it. The key is to try and find something to take your mind off of her when this starts.
I do not think you are pushing to say you will call her next week. In fact this lets her know that you are ready to talk and lets her know it is time. The fact is this can not continue indefinitely. It is not pushing to say "Hey are you ready to talk yet" And at the end of the day I think she will be ready for the talk after her trip regardless. You are just opening it up.
Well the card and the flowers are bought. Everything is ready but me haha.. Its like i have a countdown to tuesday so i can hopefully have another countdown to a dinner.
Im doing this letter to her on all the things I want to say. Hopefully i never have to send it. If i memerize it, then i can hopefully tell her things i want to say. i dont know what is in her head, and what she wants to say. i think her not replying on wed. was a good thing too. I guess her reaction to getting together will be the overall answer though. I guess I will have to wait and get it to see what she says. I just hope she says she will think about dinner too.
i really feel like i am different. sometimes you just have to hit rock bottom before you can mend the fences.
Hitting rock bottom always has a way of opening your eyes and showing you where you have made mistakes and where you want to go from here. Now if we could just make everything work the way we want them to........and the world would be a happy place.
Sounds like everything is ready and its time you have to wait on. The good news is you have made it though the worst of this. Hopefully she has learned a lot without you, and hopefully she has learned how much she loves and misses you. The dinner is a biggie, this is your one and only chance to plead your case and tell her how much you love her. Hopefully all goes well and she is willing to get together for the talk.
I am hoping there will be a email from her after she gets the flowers......though you have to understand that since you are telling her you will call next week she may go ahead and not contact you. If she does I would put that on the plus side of good things so far. If not it really holds not negative sides.
No I do not think it is a bad thing.........and there are no dumb questions. Its natural to try and read into just about everything when you are afraid of how these things may effect the outcome of your relationship.
I figure you have not heard from her because she knows that the husband told you and she figures you are ticked off at her. The last thing she wants is to have to explain her actions.
Yeah i really overdue it and read into everything. I want to stay positive. when i am positive, i read relationship books and do counseling. when i am negative i read her emails and hope to find some hidden hope.
for some reason i thought the friend was going to help. the email thing, who knows. he texted me to tell me she was sending them, but i dont think he would ever tell her that. she is kinda the boss in that family. she seemed positive when i talked to her 3 weeks ago at that party. i was hoping she would influence meggan. i know that is bad, but i need all the help i can get.
one other thing, and this is a biggie..... i am at work so i am bored.. ill make sure i accept. why would she not take me back?? if she knew i was in counseling, and that she still loved me and so on, what might be some of her reasons.. i know this is feeding into the negative but i am just curious..
The reasons why she would not take you back, could be just about anything. If I had a guess I would say it was all the fighting in such a small amount of time. Keep in mind that in the first year of a relationship typically the couple is busy leaning about each other and in the love stage.........in this relationship you both fought alot and were quite nasty to each other. Which isn't typical. If she refuses to take you back, that would be the likely reason. She would feel that if in the first year there was this many problems how would the next 20 look.
Women typically look in the long run in a relationship, while not all are looking for marriage they seldom look at a relationship as just something to do for now. Which means every action holds meaning for the next year. No one wants to look at the future and see the same fighting day after day year after year.
Taking the stance of admitting the problem, addressing it and working on it is always a good starting point.
well i went to parade today and did not see her. i think that is good but i found out something interesting from that guy who has a crush on meggans friend.
he was mad she was going to see a psychic. he then said it was the same one that her friend meggan (my meggan) went and recently saw. this pissed me off. i have to hope some damn psychic is going to help me??? i know she went and saw one a few months before we met. she is really into ghosts, psychics, and all that sorta stuff. i usually blow it off but if she is basing our relationship off this bullshit then i am furious. this guy is too dumb to realize i dated meggan , and thats all he said.
i am just mad, she is taking too damn long! sorry rough day. i cant even enjoy a damn day out because all i could think about was how awesome of a time i had with her last year on st patricks day.
also just to be an idiot, one of our favorite comedians is coming to town. i thought it would sell out so i bought 2 tickets, just hoping.. im pretty much screwed if she dosent come back haha
No not screwed.....even if it does not work out, you can still invite her. Or someone else. I will be honest that I do not know much on the psychic thing, though I have heard that it is a stress reliever so do not be down about it. I personally do not believe in it, but a good psychic would never tell someone wither they should go back to someone or leave them. This is more a whats in your future kind of thing. I see this as more good then bad.......if she had decided to end things why would she go see one? Sounds more like she wants to come back......but is curious what her future holds. If you think about it, this is really a good thing.
No need to apologize to me......this is what I am here for. When you are angry, sad, hopeful it is better for you to come here and vent then to do something rash.
Yeah, I was looking at it from a "she better not be letting this vodoo bs make up her mind". I am not a big believer in that stuff at all.
yesterday was tough, i was walking around with my head on a swivel trying to make sure i didnt bump into her, but hoping to maybe see her. its funny how a day like this can be changed forever because of a date. i gave the card to my female friend this morning, and she is picking up the flowers tommorrow morning.
i guess i will let you know what happens tommorrow afternoon. hopefully she is home, and i am really hopeful she likes them.
Sounds like a plan.......try to keep strong. Hopefully you get a nice email setting up a date for dinner. We could definitely put a big check mark on the positive side
my friend delivering the flowers tommorrow asked me if i wanted her to make small talk with meggan? that way she could get a feel for the situation, only if meggan seems happy. what do you think?
also i just read this.... i am making a bad move asking her to dinner??
Do not let your emotions rule your actions. Keep to first time casual approaches after the split up. Make arrangements to meet up for short periods. Being around each other for too long time may have you struggle in saying the right things resulting in the wrong words spoken - leaving you wishing the ground would open and swallow you up, or have you stamp your feet while damn blasting everything around you. Get it out of your head to invite your partner to dinner, this is an evident sign to say, I want you back. By all means snack out together but remember the time issue, so not as frequent as you would like.
I do not agree with it at all......at least not in your case. If this was a break up then maybe. But your situation is a bit different. Yes she broke up with you, but she has implied that she thinks you both need to grow more first (A signal that once you have grown a relationship is possible).
Yes dinner does say, you want her back........but the fact is she already knows this. Do you want to tell her everything is simple and pushing it off longer is OK? I think not......thus telling her you want to get back together is not always a bad thing. The fact is this sit down should be about where you both are right now, and where you want to go from here.....wither that be apart, or together remains to be seen. But the reality is the last thing you want to do is run into the friendship mode. Keeping things simple could put you into friend zone which is not a good place to be when your heart still belongs to her.
As for small talk.........does she know this other girl? If so then it would not hurt, otherwise I would say no. If she does not know her then she may assume she is a simple delivery person. Either way........Do not have the girl feel your GF out about you. This is a sure fire way to tick her off. If she does not know your GF then a simple comment "These flowers are butieful.......someone must really care for you" would not be so bad. (Thus your GF can comment back if she feels comfortable giving us some insight into how she feels about the flowers and maybe you)
ok l let her know to be very careful and not push anything.. just say how nice the flowers are. i just gotta calm down. basically tommorrow like i said is make or break day, pending on her reaction.
i have to keep reminding myself she liked the last flowers, i have done the counseling and books, she hasnt made any negative emails in a month, and hasnt ask me to get my stuff.
there has to be hope. i have to stay positive tonight and pray for a great tommorrow
friend just picked up flowers.....
Great, is she going to contact you once she has made the delivery? Make sure she does not push......just some simple talk is fine. I will be online all day so you can contact me if you need me.
ya she will call be right away... i cant believe how nervous i am
Try to be calm, keep in mind you may not hear anything today. With the trip being right around the corner she may hold off on any contact since you said you would call next week.
she wasn't home, her work car was gone.
It happens, sometimes people are simply not there. She may want to try again toward the end of her shift. Keep in mind with the trip and all she may be out getting things ready as well so she may have to try later on in the evening.
actually, with her work car gone she might have had court early.
she couldnt go back, so she had to leave the flowers in front of her door. plus, she is going out with her damn friends later haha.
i couldnt sleep last night so i was on one of those forums, everyone was blasting me for overdoing it with flowers. of course these people can be cruel, but they were on there at 2 in the morning too.
That is fine, she can get them when she gets home. I would not place to much faith in the forums......the reality is most of these people have their own ax to grind. Love has hurt them just as deeply and most figure love is not really out there. Few really know the true secret to lasting relationships. And that is work........while it would be great if love was all that was needed but the reality is it is a relationship just like others but demand more work out of each person.
The flowers are not over doing it.........going over there would be overdoing it. Calling her or seeking her out would be over doing it. A flower arrangement is a simple way of showing her you are thinking about her. While there is no way to know how she will react, the fact is she reacted well to the last one and based on the amount of time that has passed and her comments I think it is a safe choice. Different situations call for different methods. Had she still been ignoring your contact (The first set of flowers, etc) then I would not have recommended the flowers today. Every women is different, and to lump them all into one batch and say "Do not send flowers, or do not contact her" is not going to work. Each situation calls for a different tactic. There are some people I tell straight up front to just wait it out, no contact, no flowers etc. Others I advise lots of contact. Others I advise to walk away.......no one can take a little bit of information and tell you based on the fact that she asked for space to follow though. Its the details you have to read and the details that tell you what is right for each individual.
I wish I could say that everyone I talk to I tell them things are going to work out........but the reality is in 50% of the people I work with I advise them to move on. I would not lead you wrongly. I can tell you that in the 3 years I have been doing this on Just Answer I have not had one unsatisfied customer. Some may not always like what I say........but all come back and thank me. I can not guarantee she will return........but I can guarantee that you are doing everything the right way and going about this in the best way you can to have a chance at working things out.
thank you for the pickup walter...
those forums are kinda dumb. everyone is so negative and so on. i just couldnt sleep, and i was looking for anything positive. most of the time i just reread what we have written. you have really helped me keep my composure. i know otherwise i would have buckled by now.
i definetely think i have given you all the info haha. i asked my friend if she thought meggan thought about me today. she laughed and said i dont understand women. obviously, otherwise i wouldnt be in this situation. she said of course she has thought about it today.. she also said the flowers looked great but we'll see. ill keep you updated today.
I know i was just hoping. i am sitting here today in the dumps and she is out with friends? i know we agreed about what it was but it still hurts.
I know.....today is going to be hard. Maybe you should get out for a while. Do you have to work today? If not maybe a movie with some friends or maybe tinkle with the car some. Anything to help keep your mind off of it is going to help.
i have my son til 6, but he is napping.
my friends are going out for holiday, but i just can't celebrate today.
was gonna go on motorcycle, but that is too much time with my own thoughts...
Well today would be a good day to do something with your son, maybe go out and play some catch or even sit down and watch a movie when he wakes up. Kids have a great ability to help keep our minds off of things.
should i email her friend "too much"?
I would not email her friend...........with the flowers this would be to much.
that is just how i feel today. stuck at work, which is good i guess, and it is bad as the day after we split. i was up at 4am trying to not think about it. i did everything i could think of just to not tear up.
I know you will think i am an asshole, but i did drive by on my bike to make sure she got them. and she did. i was embarrassed of myself for doing that. i am am not a stalker and i have never acted this irrationally before. i am 33. i have been dumped before, and i have been the dumpee. I've been hurt, mad, sad, and felt rejected. at no point did a woman ever hit me this hard. i am mad at myself for checking. even though i know she got them and did not reply, it gave me no satisfaction.
so now i am lost. i know you said it would be ok if she did not write back. my friend said she was blown away how beautiful the flowers looked, and was amazed meggan would not say anything. i dont know if i should still call? i worry she is out meeting other people, and i worry if i am running out of time. everyone says time is the answer, but the longer i go the worse i fear this is slipping away. man this is gonna be a rough day.
Good Morning........I know "Not so good"
I do not think you are a asshole.......or a stalker. Instead of looking at the negative, look at the positive......at least you did not knock on her door
So you slipped up a little bit........it was bound to happen eventually, I am just glad it was not something big like calling her, stopping by or emailing her. I will take a drive by and be happy with it! Try not to be so hard on yourself, this is a big thing and it is natural to be so unhappy that you slip.
I know you wanted to hear something by now, and I wish I could say that she will likely call or email today. But the fact is she is not going to. The closer you get to the sit down the less often you will hear anything. Her trip is so close that she is NOT going to buckle now no matter what.
Time is the answer.........I know you must be sick of hearing that by now but it is the truth. I will not lie, I am worried about you right now. You have got to find some kind of release before you blow! Your thoughts are always on her and what she is doing and if she is moving on, which is not healthy. Thinking about it is only prolonging the pain. You have got to take a step back from everything and get a few deep breaths.
Maybe it is time to go out for a bit.......just the guys kind of thing. Maybe a club or something where you can get your mind off of this and take a breather. I know you love her, but there is nothing wrong with living your life right now either. Not to mention the fact that you have a son who needs you to be clear headed right now. Kids sense these things and the last thing you want is him being wrapped up in all of this.
i planned on going out to a dinner party on sat night with some friends. the whole club thing i just cant do right now. when i went to the parade we did a bar crawl and some girl started flirting with me. literally i just wanted her to leave as fast as possible, and she was attractive.
ill try to relax about it, but it is tough. the more i learn about in counseling the more i want to talk to her. i think i spend so much time trying to fix things, but its like having a hammer and no where to use it.
last thing i forgot, i have to work next wed. i told her i would call next week. should i call next tue. or thur? hell should i still call? i would call wed but with my luck get a fire in the middle of the talk.
with the no response to flowers, and a no response to the email last week, am i still in the same boat?
Things still look good from this angle.......I really did not expect a response to the flowers. As for the email, I also knew there would be no response. So that is expected. I would go ahead and make the call on Thursday......simply because this is closer to the weekend. But if she is a planner (She makes plans often on the weekend) then Tuesday may be better to give her time to set it up.
I can understand the irritation with other women.......its because you love her and in your eyes no other women can stack up, regardless of looks. Besides the last thing you want to do is jump into a relationship or even a one night stand. I know some guys have the theory to go out and have as much sex as possible to get the girl out of your system. That is not helpful, and often prolongs the problem. The last thing you need is causal sex.
A dinner party is good.......just be careful about not allowing yourself to start hashing over it. Spend the time not thinking about all of this.
well i have saturday and sunday off, so i guess i could just call thursday.. i could ask her sat, and if she has plans try sun. but that might look desperate so ill think about it a little. i doubt she will have alot going on the weekend after vacation.
ya all my friends say i should just go hookup. as hard as this is to say, i have never been this crazy about someone. she told me i have no idea how much she cared about me in the last talk. you're right i have no idea what she is doing, but i am not able to put myself out there yet.
personally, i am stunned by the no response to flowers. i just assumed she would . oops
I know you wanted her to respond.....but the fact is with the vacation, and her knowing you are going to call she is going to wait it out. Look on the positive side.....at least you did not get a email Thanking you for the flowers but telling you she is not ready for dinner. The fact is if she was not ready, or was simply trying to wait it out until you move on she would have emailed you and said she was not ready for dinner. The fact that she has not emailed you and discouraged you from calling means she is not adverse to speaking with you next week.
Hooking up is not the answer........of course it seems like a good idea to people that are not wrapped up in it because the theory is get her out of your head. The problem is she is in to deep, any girl you try to hook up with is going to seem low compared to her. You will begin comparing things, and even if the girl is better you will find some fault somewhere.
well i guess looking at the positive is good. this weekend is going to be tough knowing where she will be. and of course how much i wish i was there. i think i will call her wed. from work, on a break or something. i'll just tell her i have the weekend open and see if she wants to get dinner one of those days.
i guess i have a week to think about it...
I would not worry about the trip much......she is going with girlfriends and as such will not have time to mingle. The good thing about Vegas is it is wild loud and dirty. Just the rough life to make a girl miss the quality in love and life with you.
Wednesday is the best day.....this gives her time to rest from the trip as well as give her time in case she does make plans. If you need anything this week, or just need to vent stop by and post.
ok, i will find time wed during a break to call. i guess i have alot of time to plan out this talk. there are so many dimensions to my thinking right now. will she come back or wont she? will she take my call or wont she? will she go to dinner? does she still love me? did she meet anyone? will she think of me on vacation? the beauty of it all is i have NO control over anything.
6 more days to write down what to say. i think i will have a cheat sheet, and come up with responses to all her possible answers, negative or hopefully positive. i just know i need to keep it short.
A study guide to help you remember what you have to say is not always a bad idea......just do not bring it along.
just got this...
Brian, Thank you for the flowers. They are very beautiful. I have been thinking about how to respond, that's why i did not respond before. I don't think dinner is a good idea. I am not angry with you and I don't have any bad feelings towards you. Right now though, I want to continue to work on myself. I have thought about things a lot in the last couple of weeks. The thought of us getting back together does not feel right. I feel we had something very special, but I am not sure if it was meant to be. It should not be so hard to be together and be happy. I know we are both realizing things we did wrong, but i don't know if that is enough. I am very sorry for any hurt i have caused you. Please let me know when would be a good time for you to pick up your things. If you want to sit down and talk we can do that then. -Meg
should i send something like this....
Meggan, Obviously, I am crushed. I was not expecting that email at all. I am glad you liked the flowers. I have been doing alot of counseling, reading books on dating police and relationships , and spending the last month trying to figure out why I did and said some of the things I did. The whole while I was trying to hope for the best. Everytime I have came out of counseling I was so excited and wanted to tell you, but I wanted to give you space. I can't just walk away by email. I can come by next Thursday morning around 10. I am not going to pressure you to come back, but I think you need to hear alot of what I have learned. I will bring your things. You are right, it shouldn't be so hard to be together. That is why I was so happy when I understood the things I did and why I panicked in the relationship. We put in close to a year in this relationship, and I think with both deserve a chance to talk and speak. Brian
I wrote this last week, should i give it to her before the talk or after??? i hope your can respond soon
Where do I start. There are so many things I want to say that I may bounce around a little. And do not laugh at me, I probally will never be this forthcoming in my life again. Writing this will never have the same effect as saying this to you in person. WE are terrible at reading each others emotions through letters. I will try to be as clear as I can how I am feeling with each subject matter. I told you in a few of my emails that I have never been in this situation before. Let me explain. I have been dumped before, and been the dumper. When I say I have never been in this situation, what I mean to say is I have never been in this kind of pain after a breakup. When Brett was born, I welled up. When we saw Marley and Me, I welled up. When I realized I screwed things up with us, I sobbed uncontrolablly. When we were at the front door I could barely catch my breath. Of course I wanted to hug you Meggan, but it was almost like a horrible nightmare. I have been mad after a breakup, hurt, sad, even disappointed. With you it was different. It was like the most wonderful part of my life died. And I could not handle it at that point. So I had 2 choices. I could roll into a ball and die, or I could fight to get you back. The first few days, I chose the ball. I sent you that terrible email. I never got it that night Meggan. The first day was such a blur. The night after our fallout, we had a big arson fire. Guy tried to burn his wife. Tom and I were the attack team. Turns out the house was a 3 room apartment. We got stuck in a room and the fire got behind us. Luckily the hose burst and made some room. We had to basically run out of the building. The next morning I got in my car, and I grabbed the phone to call you. I dont know if it rang, but I hung up quick. I then realized you were not gonna be there. I have never felt so horrible in my life. That moment, no matter what happens, will live with me forever. I never bought into a wife or girlfriend being a best friend, but that's when I realized that was true. I could never tell my friends how that scared the hell out of me. That's when I chose to fight. I dropped Brett off at his grandparents. I drove to the counselor in Birmingham because I could not find her online. I got the name and she gave me her partner as a reference. I went back on Tuesday to see her, and again on Friday. She was $110 a pop, so I had to find someone else haha. I currently really like the woman I speak with in Ann Arbor. She gives me homework, and she can be like a sarcastic mom. It is actually exciting. Kind of a double edge sword though. Exciting because I learned why I acted like I did, but sad because I couldn't share it with you. So session one was tough. I was still very emotional, and we talked alot about the way I reacted to the situation. The tears and the knot in my stomach I mean. She asked me how I reacted when I realized things were over with Anne. I told her I was sad, but it was more of a guilt for realizing the situation I put myself in. I'll get to more on marriage in a minute. Then of course came up the infamous post cherry party talk. I explained to her how it was like an out of body expierience, where I was watching myself and yelling to myself that I was wrong all at the same time. We didn't get too far in, just alot on how to handle my feelings, such as going to work and eating and such. I know that sounds dumb, but I just was crushed. It was kind of 50/50, not having you and regretting what I had done. Session 2 on Friday was a bit more talkative. We got into the whole marriage thing. I told her how it always bothered you I never had time to heal after the divorce. I said I wish I would have met you at a better time. She looked at me shocked and asked if I loved you. I said of course I did. She then told me to never apologize or feel guilty for falling in love. That really hit me hard. No matter what happens in the future, falling in love with you was one of the best things to ever happen to me. Then we talked about females in my life and stuff like that. We talked alot about listening, really listening and not trying to be the hero. She asked me about my why I got married. I told her and we had a long talk about it. We came up with 3 events that really showed why it was stupid of me to be married in the first place. Maybe one day I'll get the chance to tell you. After that I couldn't afford to go to Birmingham for that price, so I found Jody, the new therapist in Ann Arbor. Remember how I said I realized the worst moment I had? Now comes the worst day I ever had. The day of the party. Don't think for one second I didn't think about you all day, knowing you were going to Krav. I wanted to text you so bad, but I wanted to give you space. Part of me was thinking about the time you were sick when I didn't call, but I knew this was different. So I just waited. Tim kinda forced me to go to that party, I really did not want to go. So I did. All I thought about was you all night. I talked to "Moses" and he kinda joked what an idiot I was, and I agreed. Then the hard part. I saw Gina walk in. When I saw her again she was alone and texting, so I had a bad feeling in my gut. I told Debbie (tims gf) what was going on. I told her I didn't know if this girl liked me, and now I am sure she dosen't after what I did to her friend. I debated saying hi. Debbie asked what would happen if I talked to her. I said she would probally rip me a new ass. So she said I screwed up, so if you want to have a chance with You I would have to go take my medicine. So I walked up and said hello. To my suprise she talked to me. Yes, she did rip me a new ass. But she said so many things I had never thought of before. She did also tell me I had no chance with you. She told me how all female cops were married to male cops, and that shocked me to. She just said alot of things in a blunt mannerI needed to hear. But after a talk, it became friendly. She realized I knew I screwed up, and how bad I wanted to reconcile. That's when she told me you weren't coming because of me. And that hurt alot. So she told me she would talk to you, but I had to keep working on myself. She told me to email you and admit all the dumb things I did, and to let her know what I said. As nerve racking as that was, I really enjoyed that talk. So I left, still sad. As I was pulling into derricks, I hit an ice patch and knock over 3 mailboxes, messing up my jeep. Just more and more good times. So I went in and grabbed the computer. That's when I sent you the new rules email. Stupid to try to be cute I know. I just wanted you to remember I did have a fun side. I worked on that email all night. I think I fell asleep with it on my lap. I truly meant every word I said, but I knew I still had alot of work to do. I was kind of mixed on your reply. I wasn't sure to be positive or doubtful. To date, I think I have read it nearly 1,000 times trying to get a different meaning out of every word. So I started in Ann arbor. I got back to the gym, and had to keep moving. My first session I wasn't allowed to talk about you. We worked on my personality traits, habits, and subconscious actions. At the end, she told me my homework was to write down our entire relationship good and bad, but not I felt about it. So I did, eleven pages!! Then came your birthday. I was a nervous wreck that morning. I called the florist and asked if they were delivered, and she laughed and said yes. We had a hazmat meeting for an hour, and I kept checking my phone. Stupid I know. I was even more nervous when I saw I had an email from you. I was just happy you liked them and so happy you told me about your day. Derrick was laughing because he was sitting next to me in class, telling me I was making him nervous just sitting there. Gina emailed me later saying you liked the flowers. I did email her twice, just so you know. I wasn't trying to be secretive, but I really enjoyed the talk I had with her. I then got 2 great books. The first was "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff in Relationships" and the next one was "I Love a Cop: What Police Families Need to Know". Same thing, I learned so much but I wanted to call you and tell you. The next week was tough. Long story short, Brett was sick. He had a GI infection, dehydration, and his kidneys were not functioning properly. Anne was out of town, so I had to get him through the first few days. There were a few hours there where I started the whole negotiation process with God. They were going to fly him to Toledo, but the weather was bad. Luckily, he started coming around that night. Some great things happened that week. I was at the hospital for 5 days with him, so obviously alot of people came to visit. The second from last day I was in the lobby with my dad. He told me he hadn't heard from me in a while, and asked what was up. Eventually, I told him what happened. I was trying not to cry in front of my dad. We had an amazing talk where he almost blamed himself for being a bad role model. He told me he was proud of me for fixing my mistakes, and we actually had a genuine hug before he left. ON the other hand, my mom. Now after what happened with us, I lost alot of weight and looked like hell. I told my mom I was having stomach issues. So she kept telling the Dr. Brett caught what I had. So finally, it needed to come out. I told her everything about us. Literally a 2 hour conversation. How happy I was, how I screwed it up. She was really sad and apologized for making me feel like I could not tell her how happy I was. 2, not kidding, 2 days later she made a comment on how it sounded like I just had a fling and I was fine. Therapist agrees mother is a lost cause. Brett is fine now, doing much better. After that back to counseling. I finished both books at the hospital. With eleven pages in hand, she began breaking how I acted down with me. But first, why I got married. She agreed it was dumb to have done it. But she made a great point. The reason it was so easy for me to move on and find love was because I was basically single for the previous 10 years. I never acted like I was in a relationship, so when I got in a real one with a real person, I was bound to make mistakes. We agreed it was pointless to bring up the marriage after I understood why I did it. I cared about Anne and loved her, but never fell in love with her. It's hard to explain in letter, but one day I can. So then we got around to us. She kept asking me why I was there. Kind of like Brett keeps asking why. Finally I said it really loud, and I wanted you to hear it. YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON I HAVE MET IN MY LIFE THAT MADE ME WANT TO BE A BETTER PERSON. So then we strarted talking about where things went wrong. I said something happened to one of us between October and November where this weird fighting circle started. We talked about fights, dates , jobs. Anything. Through that talk something hit me. The night on the couch a few weeks before Nashville. I don't remember what you said, I just remember looking at you. I remember it perfectly. I realized that was the happiest, most peaceful moment of my life. I knew I had found the right person for me, and I wanted to share a future with you. I was beyond in love, I was so happy. Then, we talked about, it all backfired for me. Instead of enjoying the moment and my life with you, I subconsciously felt I had to protect this situation and not lose those feelings of love. Our trip to Nashville was so fun, but the fight the last night was on me. I don't know why I overreacted, but I was trying too hard. Actually there is one thing about that trip I will never forget. When we were watching that guy sing in the hall of fame. I was bitching about being hungry, and you just gave me this funny look to shutup. But I cannot stop thinking about that. Just how beautiful and funny you were. You had your hair up with that brown hair (pullerbacker?), your green coat, and the most amazing smile. I will never forget how beautiful you were in that moment. Do you remember that Tiger game we went to? On the way home we were buzzed and I thought you were going to dump me. I told you I was not going to let you implode, that I wanted to be with you. Well guess what, I was the one that imploded. I tried to make sure a great relationship didn't get away from me that I pushed too hard. That is one of the main reasons for the fighting, and I could not feel any worse. Of course this made things worse when you got your new job. I was so nervous for you that day when I was at work. I remember just pacing around the station. You called me at 9 and I was excited to hear about the day, of course I teased you for leaving early. The next day, the whole stripper thing threw me off. I know is was acting, but with my new hang on mentallity it set me back. Meggan, I love knowing you love going to work and love your job, which leads to the hardest thing I have to admit... I was jealous of your job. Not like I wanted to be a cop, but jealous that I was going to lose you to your job. Everytime you asked me if I had a trust issue with you, I really never thought you would go out and cheat on me. Never. So when I read our books on trust, I was ok with things. When I reread the book after I learned this, it made more sense. Babe, you were so passionate about your job. The good parts, and the bad. When you got into DRANO, you were so thrilled to be there and so happy. And I was happy for you. But everyday you came home, someone was getting divorced, even your friends. And lets be honest, it was hard for me to hear about guys being crude to you. I understand now this is part of the job something I wished knew earlier. I don't even want to bring up the party. I was childish and mad how they were treating you. You are an adult and I tried to solve your problems. Every word I said the next day was nonsense. All I can remember about that day was wanting to take care of you in the morning. I can't believe how stupid and idiotic I was. I was just a plain dickhead. I was rude to Holly because she was ripping on me for You not going to Vegas. I like Holly, she was nice. But she made me nervous. She was living this awesome single life, great job, nice place. It made me nervous thinking I wonder if you wanted that back. That was an insecurity of mine, another one I wish I could take back. Obviously this all ties into why I tried to make you jealous. I hope you got that email apology. At first I thought you like jokes about turing you in at 30 or what not, but I was obviously reading the signs incorrectly. I was so stupid to say those things to you. I don't think I tried to do it on purpose, but I fed into it and it was wrong. When we were at the Post for the Tigers game, I remember some girl asked me something. You kind of said something to her, and you were mad. Deep down I thought it was kinda cool. Now I know how wrong I was. The night I told you I love you was so important. I had never said that to anyone before first. I remember thinking about it for awhile before. But when I whispered it to you, I was terrified. I hoped you felt the same. Later you told me you thought I had to say it. I had been trying to tell you before that!!! I just couldn't get it out!!! I wanna tell you another thing. You don't have to believe me but I really did. It was early January, and we just had a date the night before. I think you were working. Anyway I went to drop Brett off, and stopped at Twelve Oaks. I was just dicking around, but I stopped in a couple jewelry places. Obviously I knew I couldn't do anything until the papers were finished, but the thought started dancing around in my head. I was kind of gitty when I left there, excited by the idea. It wasn't forced, it just felt.....good. One of the hardest things I told the therapist wasn't just losing you. I was losing alot of hopes and dreams too. I know this sounds corny. I thought about us house hunting, I laugh and think of how we were only going to have girls, and I couldn't wait to take your picture on the Lions couch in the basement. I wanted a real, happy future with you. And of course, I got scared and didn't want those dreams to get away. By now we both agree I was a crappy listener. That is just something I need to practice and get better at. There isn't alot to say even though it is SO important. I work on it everyday, and I should have done a better job with you. I listened, but I replied with a fix. I just wish I would have shutup. Sorry, I know this is getting long. The book I read on the small things in a relationship was us perfectly. We never had a big knock out fight. It was just lots of little things. I was insecure because I didn't want you to ever leave. I was oversecure because I never thought you would. I know you will be a great mom one day. Watching you with Brett, I could tell it was never forced. You are kind of a mom to your mom haha. One of the things in the book about loving a cop is the constant gear shifting, especially for women. This demanding job, but a need for regular everyday life. I get that now, but I never really appreciated what you went through. Catching the wish i would have known now what i didn't know then theme? Your job makes up alot of who you are. But you are much more than that. You are smart, funny as hell, sarcatic, beautiful, fun, and just an unbelievable person. Even if I never see you again, I will always remember the best, XXXXX XXXXX , times that we had. The drinking thing is the last thing I want to bring up. I honestly had no clue how to handle it. I never dated anyone that like me, just liked to go out for a beer once in a while. Even getting hammered once in a while. Here was the catch. Alot of times we went out drinking, it looked like you were going to dump me, like on vacations. And when you started your new job, you had your weekends back to hang out with your friends. I never thougt you would cheat on me. I just was an idiot about it. The thing with us only being intimate together while drinking made sense the day you told me that in counseling. I really did take alot out of that day. Not to sound strange in a letter, but being "with you", was really special. All the things you told me about you never being able to do made me feel great inside. It meant alot to me, and you look amazing naked...sorry had to get that in. In a weird way, I am glad you ended things. Of course I am still praying we will be together one day, but it needed to happen. I told you before I needed to hit rock bottom to fix alot of our problems. I just wish rock bottom had a promise of reuniting on it. I learned alot about myself in therapy. I think I love and appreciate you more now than I did together. I am sorry I hurt you and betrayed you not just trusting you would be there. I am going to carry that regret with me forever. You said something the night we stopped seeing each other. You said I had no idea how much You cared about me. To be honest Meggan, you are right. The only time you ever verbally said how much you cared was usually while we were fighting. The time I felt you loved me the most was the night in Toledo, when you said you didn't want to search for jobs out of state because of me. I really was glad to hear that. Not that I am someone that needs reassurance, but i guess it would have been cool to hear once in a while outside of a fight. Not to reminisce too much, but we had alot more fun than bad. Of course I will miss just being in bed with you. The therapist laughed when I told her we were fighting about going to sleep, she wished all her couples had that problem. Vacations were fun, even if they ended bad. Every morning I miss being hugged by you. The day you told me why you did that made me happy. For some horrible, horrible reason, I miss your cat. I miss ghost shows (maybe not), both of us swearing we would eat good the next day after a huge meal, and i will miss those white shorts. I miss hearing about training, police work, and your funny family stories. I miss your curly hair, and I miss your straight hair. I even miss those big ass toes. If I started to list everything I miss, I would be her all day. Plus, how will I ever know when the good sales at Antropolioge are? I guess I don't have alot left to say. I hope you keep this letter and look at it every once in a while. Just remember if when you find the right guy for you, you once knew someone that loved you with all his heart and soul. He just happened to be a moron haha. Meggan, you will ALWAYS be the love of my life. I have never exposed so many sides of myself to someone, never dreamed into the future with such hope, and never looked at a woman with such love in my heart. I don't know how I will go on without you, but I guess I don't have a choice. I know it was only 11 months, but You changed me forever. If you ever want to talk or call me, I will be there. You have so much to look forward to, you are going to live an unbelievable life. And I will always remember how much I wish I could have been there to share it with you. I Will Always, Always Love You Meggan,Brian Wolf
I am here......give me a moment to read though all this.
ok i am sorry just crushed
I am so sorry, I had high hopes for this and was praying she would see you for what you are......a man in love who made a mistake. I would go ahead and email her the above letter now. Add to it that you will set something up next week for the pick up and talk.
Your letter was open, honest and to the point. Hopefully she will read it and take from it all that is there. Your letter proves a lot of growing took place and learning as well. While I do not know if this will sway her, it will give her pause to make sure this is what she wants.
I know this is tough right now.......and I know how bad you are hurting. But try to stay strong right now and look to the future. Have you ever heard the song "Thank God For Unanswered Prayers" Often we look at a loss such as this as a horrific thing.......while it is horrible it isn't the end for you. She may rethink it and come back......or she may move on. Either way you have to stay strong for your son and yourself.
or should i print it and hand deliver
No.......send the long letter, but go ahead and email it. She is hurting right now, and upset that she had to send that email, the sooner she gets that letter and can see how you have grown the harder it is going to be for her to stay firm. I do not know if it will help change her mind.......but it can not hurt right now.
I will be offline for a couple of hours.......If you need anything I will reply when I return. Keep your head up!
ill be back on about 9. what do i do?? i assume its done, but i cant understand why
i doubt she is hurting at all
I will log back on around 9pm to see if you need anything. As for what to do, at this point there isn't much you can do. Send the email and take it easy, if she gets back into contact you will know how she is feeling. Since she is trying to break it off before the talk, she does not really want to get back together right now. This is her way of telling you that while you can talk about it you need to understand that this is not negotiable.
I wish I could say otherwise, but her email was pretty serious and her way of telling you it is over for good. She still loves you and cares about you, but she feels this is in her best interest. The fact that she is making a mistake isn't clear to her just yet. Wither she learns from that mistake and comes back or if she simply moves on is debatable, but you have to accept how she feels and try to move on as well.
I know it is not easy, and I really wish things had turned out differently. But the fact is she has made up her mind, and wither we like the decision she has made you still have to accept it and respect it. While you can hope that over time she learns how much she lost, you still must move on in the hopes of getting over this.
i added this to beginning of that letter...
Meggan, I was obviously stunned by your letter. I don't think we should walk away and not say anything face to face. I can come by your place to pick up my things and talk Thursday morning at 10. I wrote the following, since I will probally forget alot of what I want to say once I see you. As long as Thursday is ok with you, I'll just see you then. Please read the rest
then i added this at the end.....
Meggan, you will ALWAYS be the love of my life. I have never exposed so many sides of myself to someone, never dreamed into the future with such hope, and never looked at a woman with such love in my heart. I don't know how I will go on without you, but I guess I don't have a choice. I know it was only 11 months, but You changed me forever. I will always regret that I screwed up, costing me the most amazing person I have ever met. You have so much to look forward to, you are going to live an unbelievable life. And I will always remember how much I wish I could have been there to share it with you. I will hopefully see you Thursday morning, still praying for maybe. Sorry if this was too much.
so now i just give up? any hope at this talk? i think this is a bullshit way to end things and i am somewhat upset. she is a badass on email, but she sobs and cries during the breakup??? i am just utterly shocked and destroyed. she stayed with some asshole for 3 years, and then just gives up on me>????
Yes the email should have been sent, pushing a little right now is the route to go. Now keep in mind to not push hard......but to let her know that you love her and are hurting. Since she has already ended this holding back isn't going to help either. I am not saying you have to give up........but you do have to accept that this is likely the end. The talk on Thursday could prove productive but as I have told you before I will always be honest with you. I do not think that the chances are very good at this point. As long as she had not officially ended it your chances were good, but once she did the whole ending email your chances went down significantly.
I would give her the few days before any more contact.........wait until Thursday and try again. Have the talk and show her that you have changed. Though be careful to not beg, or appear desperate. Instead you want to show her that while you are hurting you also are understanding, and thus have grown a lot over this period.
Give her space for now........we do not want to over do it at this point. The email you sent was enough to get her thinking and keep her thinking over the next few days. Wither it works or not I can not make any promises but the more she thinks about how much you have grown the harder it will be to walk away on Thursday.
well i wrote on that email that i would be there thursday at 10. did the dumb thing i wrote at the end.,.......
I will hopefully see you Thursday morning, still praying for maybe. Sorry if this was too much..
a bad move??
it probally made me sound desperate..
so you agree there is no chance even after the talk?
i just cant believe she cried so hard, but how much of a tough guy she is on f**king email....
No it was not desperate, it was sent with feeling and in the end that is the best thing to do. Just be careful to not overdo it. Letting her know you love her and are upset is not being desperate, begging, or stalking would be desperate
I do not agree that there is no chance......the fact is no one can say for sure what another person is going to feel, think or even do. We can look at their actions and try to predict what they are planning.......but in her case her actions remained the same so we had reason to hope.
I do think that she is serious about what she said, I think she loves you and knows how much this all means to her but she also thinks that she is in a relationship that isn't going anything. The tough girl attitude is a act......her words are meant to show she is serious, and firm on the subject. I do not think that she is trying to sound like a tough guy, but she is trying to sound like she is firm about her choice.
The fact is you have grown, she has not. Her actions and things she has said shows that she has not gotten over the assumption that a relationship should come easy. Her comments imply that if you really loved each other so much then all the fighting would not take place........sadly she is wrong. Love is strong, but emotions and life is stronger and therefor people are going to butt heads and fight. The key is learning how to lesson those fights and learning how to communicate better. That is why relationships take so much work. She is under the assumption that love should come easier, which is wrong. If it was so easy then everyone would be happily married in life. You have grown to learn where you made your mistakes and are willing to work on it. She has not grown enough to see her own mistakes and how she needs to work. And until she does she will continue this vicious cycle of never fully trusting and leaning how to keep her relationships healthy.
Of course I have high hopes that she will learn from this and may someday come back......but I do not think you should wait around for that either. She must learn to grow on her own and you must learn to move on. Life is full of little surprises.....what seems like a disaster now may be the best thing that ever happened to you. Maybe she will learn and come back and happily ever after is down the road after all. Or maybe you will meet the true girl that is meant to be for you. Either way life does not stop, you have to pick yourself up, dust of the dirt and keep moving forward.
to be honest, after the email, i dont think she is going to want to sit down and talk. my female friends all said that was a bullshit move to do that by email. right now the pain isnt all the way there, just because i am so mad.
i almost want to forward her what you said about love being hard. i think she thinks she is gonna find some perfect guy , everything her father and stepfather werent. she has friends with bf s that hit them, and one that has a gambling problem. maybe she met some guy and this is her way of getting out of this. its almost like she dosent want to be happy. god this sucks.
I would not recommend any more contact until Thursday, why do your female friends think the email was a bad idea? At this point it is a all or nothing move........she has already ended it. Continuing to play the game of waiting for her to make up her mind is out of the question. The email may upset her, but she needs to know how you feel and what you think. The fact is this isn't about just her. And it is unfair of her to think that after a year she can cut lines and not have you at least try. The email needed to be sent.....you would have never been able to address all of those points in a two way conversation. By sending it in a email, she gets all the points and does not have to try and hide her emotions from you. Of course other females are going to find this offensive......because it is a direct shot to her heart and any women does not want to deal with that kind of honesty.
While there is a chance there could be someone else, I do not think that is the case. As for forwarding her what I said.......that may be a bad idea. Women seldom want to be read so easily by another person. And she would likely become angry and defensive. While what I say is true.......that does not mean she wants to hear that either. The reality is she must learn to grow. And I am sure her own therapist is guiding her in the same direction with all of this.
no they thought it was shitty of her to end things with me in an email. so everyone went from helping me to saying, screw her, that was heartless.
i dont regret sending the email. i hope it hit her hard. but with her new carefree attitude, i doubt it did. once i see her face to face, i am sure i will be emotional and forget alot of what i had to say. i have to really focus and try not to cry in front of her.
obviously the anger has subsided and reality has set in that i have to go on without her. i dont think it has fully hit me yet. deep, deep down i am hoping the letter will help. i know it is done, but all i lived on for the last 34 days was hope. i dont know how to move on without her or the hope of her. i have therapy today. it really was true, what i said about losing hopes of the future. i just feel like there is this emptiness ahead of me.
OK, I thought they were mad at you for sending the email......yes I can understand them being upset at the email. It was a little cold to do that though email. I think she did it this way to prevent breaking down when you have the talk. Either way it was childish, and not very kind to do it this way. Typically people who email breakups are teenagers or men so this was a little uncommon for a adult women.
I know everything looks bleak.....or empty. But the fact is your future is wide open in front of you, and while it may seem hard to see right now the reality is if she was this uncaring to hurt you in a email like that you may be better off in the long run. Her actions were heartless and cruel. Regardless of her reasons she should not have done this in email.
ya, i would have never guessed she would have done that. and in her typical fashion, she always leaves that opening of "we can talk then". i am just disgusted with the whole situation. i think she did this so she could go on vacation with a clear conscious. not to be a dick, because i meant what i said, but i hope it made her cry. who knows, i feel like i dont even know her anymore.
i am starting to think she just dosent want to be in love or in a relationship. i am a good guy who, like you said, made a big mistake. i think this is alot bigger than just a few months of fighting
You could be right, she may want to go on vacation knowing that she is fully single. You are not being a dick, you are just upset and hurt right now which is natural. She may not want to be in a relationship right now, the fact is she is unwilling to work on it and that alone is not good. The fighting was bad........but it wasn't enough to cause this big of a rift. She may have been ready to go for a while, but now decided to let it go. It could also be that she is interested in someone else or that she is looking for something else in life. In the end we will never know what her true reasons are if she can not break her own chains and be honest with herself and you.
so how do i handle the talk on thursday? i think she is going to try to hide her emotions when i get there. do i go in hopeful and still let her know i care?
The first step is to not show how frustrated you are, you have to remain calm and cool. Emotions are always good, but do not allow them to get control of you and cause you to become a train wreck.
Let her know that while you agree that the first year was tough, that all relationships are tough and all relationships have their rough patches but if you give up easily you never know what might have been. Explain to her how you have grown, and how you want to grow with her. She will likely try to remain unaffected and cool toward you......getting though that shell is not going to be easy. Use what you have to try and get her to open up. If she is being distant, tell her. Let her know that this cool unaffected person is not the real her and that she needs to open up and be honest with herself and you about what went wrong. The key is to try and break down those walls........it isn't going to be easy and depending on how hard she works to keep them up you may not be able to. But it is worth the effort. If you can break down the barriers you have a better chance of her opening up to you and possibly showing her that this deserves one last chance.
I will not lie to you, she may refuse to open up. Or if it gets to her to much she may end the conversation and send you packing. But at this point it is your last shot. She is assuming you are going to come over and beg her back........to which she can calmly say no and be firm. Shake it up and do not give her the expected routine. Be calm, and be firm. Let her know that while you love her, this new act she has going on is not the women you know and love. Try to show her that getting back together can be probationary. Ask her if you can take it slow, start out as dating and let things take their natural course. If it works out great, if not then no harm in at least trying. If you can get your foot in the door you can show her over time that you really have changed and you are prepared to work out your problems. The reality is if she will just give it another shot I think you have grown enough that you can help her grow as well.
one last thing, how do you think she responded to the my response?
I am sure she was upset, likely even questioned her own choices. I do not think she has changed her mind, but it has given her something to think about this week. It has likely given her some insight into how you feel about all this as well as what you had hoped would happen in the future. How she felt about that depends on how she feels about you. If she is no longer in love with you (Unlikely) then it likely made her feel worse about the way she ended it. If she still has some feelings left for you then it might have made her wonder if things could work out. The question is......where she will go from here. And it is unlikely we will know until Thursday if she has changed her mind. I know you want to hope, and that is fine. But prepare yourself for the worst to prevent a meltdown at the talk.
i understand. one of my friends said if she still thought there was a chance she would have called after the email...
Here was my original answer that was cut off:
I am having trouble getting the answers to post. Likely because the thread is so large. You may have to open up another question. Go to the Ask a question page on the site and address the question to me, and we can continue the thread is being very finicky right now and will cut off everything but Hello.....until I reedit it.