Did you have depression before you got involved with him?
What are your ages?
Did he say he was going to leave his wife?
What do you want to do now?
Are you in counseling?
Thank you for that additional information. One of the hardest things we have to learn in our lives is to not give our emotions into another persons keeping. It's hard to remember that because when we fall in love it can become such a strong and powerful emotion that we literally want to lose ourselves in it. He has told you that he will never leave his wife, and yet he was still willing to get involved with you and make promises to you, some of which he may never have intended to keep.
All the wishing in the world won't make you his wife and you are right in that this is delusional thinking. While this may have been a romantic thought or gesture, the fact is Michael was not married when he married Apollonia.....he only married Kay when he returned home from Italy.
It seems almost as if he's putting you through a lot of changes and since you are already dealing with depression, it's even worse. You have to figure out some way to let him go, if not forever, at least for the moment until you can get things together emotionally. When emotional issues manifest into physical issues things can get dangerous for you, you could pass out and really hurt yourself amongst other things. At least you are starting to be aware of his selfishness and deceit, the real issue will be separating from him. Do you have any friends or family that can help?
I welcome your thoughts, let me know if you want to talk more.
You are very intuitive as to what is going on here. I agree that him saying that you want him to throw you away is just a way of deflecting blame off of himself. I can be here for you as much as I can, but I can't be here 24/7. If you feel like you might be seriously ill over this, then you may want to consider going to the emergency room, or going to stay with someone (anyone) even if only for a couple of days. He's basically made his choice. He chose his marriage. Right now, I need you to choose you. Imagine that you fall apart, and that you lose whatever ground you have gained, and all over someone who could not be honest with you? I wouldn't give him the satisfaction. Right now I don't want you to be sad, I want you to get mad and I want you to take back your life. Understand that you are intelligent, you are worthy, and sure, you may have made a mistake here, but you can change that. You can change your life at any time. Even as you are reading these words, you can decide to take your life back, block his phone number, change your phone number, change your email and move away from this poisonous, disastrous situation.
You already know you should have never gotten involved with a married man, particularly being depressed, you just didn't need that added aggravation. Only now, you are realizing it was a mistake, so it's time to be strong, for yourself. I detect more strength from you than from a lot of people I speak to. I know you are capable of getting through this. I'm here if you want to talk more
You are correct in that you have to accept some responsibility for this situation. You knew it was wrong, but allowed your emotions to rule. He has shown, bit by bit in the way that he is handling things that he doesn't care as much as he says he cares or that he is slowly distancing himself from you, possibly in lieu of a breakup. You already know that you deserve better, so you have to ask yourself what you're getting out of it should you choose to continue contact with him. Are you afraid to let go? Does it keep you involved? Are you afraid of what you'll do without him? Maybe if you miss some of his calls and not be there when he expects you to be, he will see how it feels. Are you ready to let go of him, or are you going to stay involved is the question you need to figure out.
Yes Mary, it is going to be hard, that's a fact. Im sorry he did not call you for coffee, it does seem like he's attempting to put space between the two of you. People say things that they may mean at that moment, but sometimes those things change. Most would say that if feelings change, they were never meant in the first place, but that is your judgement to make. May I ask, what is your disability? Are you able to get out of the house or do things on your own?
It is not my place to be disappointed or judgmental of you. We all have our weaknesses and when you are ready to let go, you will. I'm not so sure it was his colleague calling, it was probably his wife, and if it was truly his colleague calling it's possible he would have questioned him being with any woman but his wife. I don't think his question about being rude was meant for an answer, it's more of a rhetorical question in that he already knows it's rude and wrong, yet he did it anyway.
The botXXXXX XXXXXne is he gets what he wants, when he wants it....and only because you allow it. So you have to ask where's the payoff for you? what are you getting out of the situation?
Thats not totally true. As humans, we do nothing without some type of payoff....even when that payoff doesn't seem very attractive. Sometimes our payoff is playing the victim, sometimes it's feeling sorry for ourselves, or maybe the power of knowing that you could be vindictive and cause a lot of havoc in his life. Its seems that in a way, he knows this and yet he almost flirts with the danger of getting caught, perhaps he is right, he does in a way want to be caught....who knows. You have to concern yourself with yourself and the reasons why you continue to let him hurt you. You already know what he would think of a guy who asked this rhetorical question to someone he purported to love, he probably would think that person is a dog....so the question is, what does he think of himself, and what does he think of you.
Thank you for the accept. Again, as I told you before, I am not in a position to judge you, only to help if I can.
Tell me some things, whatever you feel like answering, ok?
What is the nature of your disability?
How did you become an orphan?
Tell me about the other relationship with the married man?
Did you talk to your therapist about what we've discussed?
Thank you for that additional info....and for your candor. I almost don't know where to start. I'm going to think on this overnight and type out a response to you tomorrow if that's ok. I appreciate your patience.
I apologize profusely for overlooking your question. I would not under any circumstances give up on you. I am always here, and if I don't respond within a day, please feel free to drop me another note, we've been having some issues with our email system. I hope you accept my apology.
You are so right, clarity can be just as confusing as confusion because sometimes, although we may see a situation for what it is, there are no clear answers, there will always be, in many cases, shades of gray. The biggest misconception in the world is that mothers are maternal. I've seen enough and experienced enough to know that there's so much more to being a mother than having a child. I've long said that parents should be required to get a license before having a child. The world would be a much better place...not perfect, mind you, but better. We tend to forget that mothers are human, and more than that, women. For a woman to throw of the mores of society and break out of the role that was expected of her in those times took a lot of guts, and a lot of selfishness. She had a responsibility to you and should have fulfilled that responsibility as should your father. That they were both able to be so uncaring and selfish was something they have to live with, and in a sense it marked you for life.
You're ability/desire to be a high achiever with the Navy is not uncommon, for you had something to prove. That you were not a cast off, that you were not expendable. By the same token, the Navy afforded you the 'family' and 'us against the world' attitude that you likely needed to get through that time, and when it was sabotaged and taken away from you, it's not surprising you cracked. Will no one accept you and keep you? Ditto for the fiance who called off the marriage.
Somewhere along the line it occurred to you that if you couldn't have the person in the first place, if they couldn't truly be yours, right from the beginning (because they already belonged to someone else), then they couldn't truly leave you. However your first married man, in fact, did leave you, and not only that he took all you had and left you even worse off than before. Maybe he didn't care if you told his wife or pressed charges for what he did, or maybe he just knew you wouldn't. I'm not really sure what happened during that time, so I am only going on what you've told me.
Fast forward to where we are now. Still a married man, so he never could belong to you, from the start. But wait, there's a difference, he is fearful of being found out. So in a way, you can force him to stay with you, even if just for friendship, even if it means taking him down in a blaze of glory with you. Your anxiety and panic have taken a turn, and if you're going to get hurt this time, it won't be alone.
The problem is, he has this whole other life and this whole other set of responsibilities. People with families tend to have flexible schedules and many times things can change at a moments notice, especially when it comes to small children. I understand about feeling worthless and unimportant, more than you know....but you knew.....you knew before you got involved that he had a family. Yes..yes...yes....he is dead wrong for getting involved with you, he wasn't using his brain, all he could see was his attraction to you, and he disregarded what was right and did what he wanted to do. However you are both culpable in this situation. The mistress always knows that her schedule can be changed at a moments notice, she always knows there are rules and that she will be marginalized. Still you continued.
The questions are, why if you are feeling unimportant would you put yourself in a position to feel even more unimportant? You want to prove somehow that you can control this feeling or being or unimportance, but it cannot be done this way. It just can't.
As children, we depend on our parents and families to instill our importance to them, and to the world and society. School helps us socialize and build our confidences in most cases, and when it doesn't we have family to fall back on. When that is taken away from us, it can cause a lifetime of damage that can last the rest of our lives.
As adults we seek importance through our jobs and/or our relationships, but in your case the damage was already done, and the failing of your job and relationships only exacerbated the situation. I'm sure you already know this, maybe your therapist talked to you about it, or you've thought about it, but it's real and it's a part of you, but the one thing you have to remember is that it doesn't have to DEFINE you.
Don't accept the term orpXXXXX, XXXXX't embrace it. You are giving your parents too much power when you embrace that label. You are not Mary, the orphan, you are Mary the woman! Do not accept the label failure, because you excelled until selfish, jealous people interfered. You are not Mary the failure, you are Mary the woman! Do not accept the label mistress, for there is someone out there for you, that would be willing to love you the way you need to be loved, that will embrace those things you consider faults and that will want to give you the time and energy you so deserve....however, as long as you stay in this relationship with no future you will forever block the way for someone to come into your life. You are not Mary the mistress, you are Mary the woman.
As such, you are capable of doing anything you want to do. By everything we have talked about I can tell you are a highly intelligent woman, I don't doubt that if you put your mind to it, there's nothing you couldn't accomplish, but it's going to take all of the strength you possess to step out of your place of fear and put one foot in front of the other and move toward a healthier place. A place where it doesn't matter if other people accept you, because the most important acceptance comes from within Mary. If you can look in the mirror and say, 'Mary, you are a smart, beautiful, talented woman, who could do just about anything. I really love you and I will never let you down'....well, that would be a day to reckon with. That would be a day when the world better be on their toes.
The fact is, the conditions that you suffer from are very real, but they are also very tied to your emotions, and people will tell you, "you can't change how you feel", but that's not true. Studies have shown that if you speak it, so can you believe it. You don't need him, you only think you do. In fact, he's already shown you that he doesn't care enough to be what you need him to be. You need to let him go. Don't talk about friendship, because although you enjoy being with him, it's not about friendship, its about control, on his side and yours, and it's not healthy. You know this.
At this very moment, as you are reading this, you can make the decision to take back your life and make changes to be the woman you know you can be. Don't believe that it will happen overnight, of course not, but it can happen. Ask yourself, what would you like to do, what would make you happy? Is there something you always wanted to do, but just didn't think you could? Now is the time to figure out what needs to be done, and do it...step by step. If you accept Mary, and you love Mary, it's going to take time to get to know her....to get to know what she wants and what she's capable of doing, but with acceptance and love, anything is possible.
I certainly welcome your thoughts. Know that I said nothing here with the intention of insulting you or hurting you in any way, and if you think I'm dead wrong, I'll accept that too. Let me know your thoughts.
No, not at all. I'm responding now.
Thanks for that additional info Mary. I must say that I was a little disappointed that your whole response focused so much on him. You are so caught up and intently focused on him, even though you know the answers and can talk about what you know you need to do. You are right, it is deceptiveness, untrustworthiness...all of that. But what we have to understand is that those traits are not the traits of a friend. This will not be the first time in history that a man said what he needed to say to get what he wants, just like it's not uncommon for a woman to feel like she wants to strike back. The issue is stooping to his level. Because he is a disturbed person doesn't mean that you have to join him....the issue becomes one of control, he knew he shouldn't have gotten involved but he did, then he pulled his little tricks, and you got angry and hurt, but you stuck with it. Sure you're threatening him now, but he doesn't want to end it because it's a whole thrill for him, the thrill of deceit, the thrill of almost getting caught, the thrill of no one else knowing, the thrill of the threats, the thrill of you leaving him, the thrill of you ignoring him....its all high drama. In a sense, he's no better that the guy peeping through a hole into the girls washroom, because even your pain and frustration cold be turning him on. It's up to you to take a step up onto the moral high ground....unless...just maybe....the thrill is there for you too?
You say you know him, and that he knows you, but that's just not true....If he knew you, he would have known that he should have been honest with you, that he should have been a friend to you and honored that friendship...if you knew him, you would have known that he was not a real friend to you, that he is not being the man he should be for his family and himself. There's not a guarantee that if his family finds out they will desert him or be disappointed in him. The fact is, he has lied about so much, how can you know what is truth and what is not. How do you know he's never cheated before? How do you know he's not sleeping with his wife? loving his wife? That she is totally clueless about how he feels? You don't. You only know what he's told you. It really hurts to find yourself in such a 'typical' situation, but it's something that you know has to be looked at and addressed.
Conquest...I think in many people it's not just a sexual thing, people experience in many many other aspects or their lives. Work, love, sex, pets, assignments, attaining things, money, hobbies....we all want to do well, we all want to succeed at what we do, and many of us desire to conquer things that we know we cannot of should not have. Some of us give into this desire, some of us follow our better judgment. You knew what you wanted from him...you wanted the friendship and you didn't want him to hurt you. Yet you slept with him, and that brought the relationship to another level. There's a whole other range of emotions that come into play once you have sex with someone, in a sense all bets are off.
You say that he has ruined your emotional state, but do you honestly believe you gave him that much control over you? If so, do you think you should have? After all you've been through, why would you trust your emotional state to someone you barely knew? Do you really believe you have less value simply if he thinks you do?
What do you do now?
What do you do on a typical weekday?
What do you do on a typical weekend?
Do you have any activities that you like?
Is there a job you would like or a business you would like?
Do you volunteer?
We don't have to split it into another question unless you want to. I am stepping away for a few, but I am going to go over everything you wrote and respond, along with my thoughts on your list.
You said you live with a 10 year old girl? Do you have a roommate?
I agree that helping people can turn into getting used. If you decide to volunteer, it should be spelled out very clearly what you are capable of doing and if you are asked to do more and can't you should feel no guilt for saying no.
You mentioned you like looking pretty and thin...you mentioned thin before, do you have any issues with weight? It is important that you feel good about yourself, and if a walk once in a while makes you feel that, it's a very good thing. I think writing a book is a good thing, and just writing more in general is good. I think a blog would be a good thing for you, as a way to start about writing your book and maybe get feedback on some of your writing.
I'm sorry about what happened with the cancer society....you are right, one bad apple spoiled it for everyone. You have to remember that there are bad people in all walks of life, you cannot avoid them completely, especially if you are a nice person, but you can learn to recognize the signs and learn how to deal with them in a healthy way.
When you are more comfortable you will find something else you can volunteer for, I'm sure of it. I will try to come up with a list of things people can do to volunteer and you can see if there's anything there that interests you.
As for your question - What are the different forms of love? How do they differ? Is one more important than the other? God: Depending on your religion or beliefs, some would say that you should love God above all else. I believe that your relationship with God is your own.Your spouse/Your spouse when you married them/Your spouse later in the marriage: A crush/ puppy love
I think that when you first meet someone you are attracted to, you become "infatuated" with them. This is the beginning, immature phase of "real love". You wonder about their thoughts, feelings, doings, family, past, etc. We think about them all the time and we want to interact with them as much as possible. During this time it is not uncommon to want to spend every waking moment with this person, talk on the phone for hours on end, and feel like you have everything in common with them. They are exactly like you, you like all the same things, everything they do has the potential to make you happy.
Infatuation is really about self gratification, it is not a giving love.
After a while these feelings of infatuation may start to wear off, as you get to know the person better and are confronted with their flaws and inadequacies you may start to feel that maybe you don't have as much in common as you thought.
This is where the possibility of real love can come in. When you can face your mates flaws and inadequacies, and still love them in spite of, and sometimes even for it!
However "real love" goes even deeper than that. Real love means being yourself, in all of your glory, good and/or bad and feeling confident that this person will accept you regardless. Real love is knowing you can trust this person and that they can trust you, and although it is possible to hurt one another it is avoided at all cost. Sharing, understanding and communication are a part of your daily life while childish fantasy or unreasonable expectations are let go. Real love gives you a feeling of security and safety. It is based on mutual respect, mutual admiration, and a real concern for the other's well being. Real love is not in what you say, but in everything you do, it is a caring love.
It is said that the person who "infatuates" us, is the last thing that we consciously want. We are infatuated with our "Imago", an unconscious image of the person our childhood programmed us to become infatuated with.
We actually become infatuated with people who have some of the traits that we wouldn't like to find in ourselves. For example, when we tell someone "you're just like my father/mother" we are saying we see the traits that we don't want to admit we may have inherited. When we choose those traits in a mate, we can feel whole without having to take responsibility for that aspect of ourselves. We are not in love with that person, we are in love with the missing part of ourselves.
Real love on the other hand allows for individuality...it stands the test of time, it withstands hardship, it sticks around.
I don't believe it's possible to know if what you share with someone is "real love" until you have spent time with them, gone through life changes with them, shared and cared and hurt with them. Knowing that there will be pain and challenges and still exhibiting a willingness to love...despite.
Your parents: is a connected love. Can sometimes be a resentful love, it all depends on the relationship you have with them Your kids: very similar to the parental love, only you now can realize why your parents did many of the things they did, and you grow in that understanding. It can become a resentful love, depending on the situationYour grandkids: many people find a individual type of love and joy in their grandchildren that goes beyond anything they ever felt, even for their own children. Again, its based on circumstancesYour siblings: this type of relationship can run the gamut from an incredible love to resentment, competition and even hate depending on the circumstancesYour extended family (cousins, aunts, nephews...): all feelings based on relationships, a nephew and an aunt could share an unusually close relationship, or cousins, or an uncle and a nephew or aunt and niece, etc.Your step mother/father....Your step sisters/brothers: depending on the relationship, these can be as close as if they were the real parent Your teacher: admiration, that can sometimes grow into a familial or emotional love Unrequited love: it can sometimes be difficult to separate real love from unrequited love because so many people want what they can't have. They have to figure out if what they are feeling is real or is it just stubbornness because they cannot have what they want People you care about:/Your good friends: friends...associates....these can run from shallow, hello/goodbye types of relationships, and some can develop into meaningful lifelong dedicated friendships.Your best friend: can sometimes come to mean more to you than family, spouse, children. At the very least they can be very meaningful loves that can impact many aspects of your life Friends of the opposite sex: many believe its not possible to have true friends of the opposite sex. Some say it's because a man would not be friends with a woman he wouldn't sleep with. I don't know if that's totally true, but I do feel that it's somewhat true in many cases.Your lover if you are married to another: it depends on the situation. Sometimes there are people who are really in bad marriages, other times people just want to have their cake and eat it to. I find if the married person is truly in love with the lover, the will do everything in their power to get out of the marriage regardless of consequence...except maybe when there are young children involved.I will finish the others tomorrow. Let me know what your thoughts are so far if you read this before I get back.
Your lover if you are married to another: in cases like this you have to be careful that it is really love you feel and not the excitement of doing something taboo. Also that it doesn't become a challenge to see who will get the person.Your lover if you are single: one of the most sought loves in that it can be your soul mate, can be a long lasting love that moves into matrimony, but when it turns bad can go to the lowest depthsThe person you are cheating with: similar to the lover if you are married to another. Being aware of whether or not it's really love or the excitement of the taboo"Friends with benefits": a relationship based on sex, it's already known from the beginning that there are no ties, no emotions, no commitments...yet time and time again, people say they won't develop feelings, and then they do. Usually its one sided and causes serious problems.Yourself: If you cannot learn to love yourself, you cant ever truly love anyone elseYour acquaintances: sort of fulfill 'fast food' desires. You can have a quick chat at lunch, in the elevator, drinks after work, talk at the mailbox. Over times these relationships can develop into real friendships.
Unobtainable people (celebrities, politicians, musicians, etc.): this was a good one. We admire these people because they have accomplishments that we all wish we could have. Most of the time our feelings towards these people range from affection, lust, envy, coveting....nd sometimes obsession. Musicians, because they write music and lyrics can be especially attractive to people as their work is wide reaching and can be interpreted many different ways by many different people.Love/hate relationships (interesting): As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts....many times we hate people because we see something in them that is in ourselves. It is said that hate and love are two sides of the same coin, although in certain situations it's hard to see thatCodependency: controlling, giving pity, making excuses, basically enablingEnabling: rescuing, helping, making excusesYour ex: depending on the individual and the circumstances of the break up, some people close off their exes when they break up. They cannot remain friends or talk to their exes. Some don't see the point, some can't take a chance of getting re involved. Others stay in touch with their exes, becoming, after the break up, what they never could during the relationship. Some even get back into a relationship years later with an even stronger love............
I'd like to know what you think of my interpretations, and if you have any different or additional ones? When we finish this, I have some questions I am going to post for you.
Apathy towards him I hope. :0) I think in my case, there is a difference in the way I love people, not that I could choose someone to shoot first (lol), but I do love differently in that I have different kinds of love, I don't think I've ever loved anyone in the world like I fell in love with my daughter when she was born. I got your second response pretty much while I was responding to the first. Can I ask you, when did he become more important than you? While he has his priorities, where are yours? Does he deserve to be a priority? Going to church and having lunch with your friends would have gone a long way towards making you feel better.....I'm sorry you did not do that. You're going to have to figure out one step at a time, ways of putting yourself back out into the world. I don't want you to get overly involved with any one particular thing, but I do want you to think of something you wouldn't mind doing for an hour or two a day. Maybe you can give me some ideas or if you give me your city, I may be able to give you some ideas. I think I have an answer to your PETVI, but I don't think you would be interested. Change your phone number and email. Forcefully remove him from your life....at this point, you're both in the water, and he's got his arm around your neck....do you push away and possibly swim to safety, or do you drown with him? Because you know....if you leave, he will do this with someone else...eventually he will get caught, his world will come tumbling down and there's no telling how or if he will emerge from the rubble. You on the other hand have the blessing of foresight. He's already shown you that he is apathetic towards you, it's up to you to decide whether or not to return the favor. You've got so much promise, and my fear is that 5 years down the line you start beating up on yourself (emotionally) for even allowing him to have this type of wasteful impact on your life. He's a coward. He knew what the issues were because you told him what the issues were, he just didn't care, and that's sad. It's sad because he's going to lose out on someone who really cared for him, and who (in my opinion) is genuinely interesting, funny and has a lot to offer.
I don't think it sounds weird at all. Can you go for 24 hrs? Does it mean turning the phone off completely, blocking him off your im for the day? If you sit and watch the IM's and calls come in, it will be harder and harder to avoid them. Turn off the phone, and turn off the computer, or at the very least closing the IM program.
What can you do today, can you go out and see something you've always wanted to see in your city? Can we do some research on volunteer opportunities in your area? Can you start creating your blog today? Turn your music up, turn the phone off and shut down your IM. What kind of music do you like? What can you put on and dance around like a complete fool for about an hour and then either go out and get lunch, or start a blog, or create a myspace. Let me know. I'm here...I;ll be here all day and most of the night. We can do this! :)
Are you sending the dog info to him or his daughter?
Why? Probably because I research why does the MM treat me so weird, instead of researching how to use my computer.
ok, that cracked me up. lol
The myspace is pretty easy, it gets easier and easier to use with time and practice. As for the blog, I use http://www.blogger.com its very easy to use and pretty much explains everything step by step. You can make it private or public. I always recommend public because you can get feedback from many people. In order to get people to visit your blog, it's always nice to read other peoples blogs and leave comments for them and they will come back and read your blog. It's a very helpful and in my opinion healthy way to get out emotions and feelings on a daily basis. Check out the site, and let me know what you think about it. If you need help I will find out from admin if they will allow me to help you set it up.
Hmm, maybe sit you in the corner and turn off your computer. :) He calls you bud to keep you in your place. You're right to compare it to the guy who strings the girl along, because that's exactly what he's doing. Giving you just enough to keep you happy for the moment. Tying you to him with invisible little strings like this thing with his daughter.
For some reason I was thinking about you all day yesterday and had planned on writing you a note today, but you beat me to it. We're not really allowed to respond unless the customer responds, but I was concerned about you.
Do you think you have changed since you met him? If so, why or why not?
He still wants you in his life? He still wants to have sex with you? Did he really say that? He is really determined to keep you in your place. At first it was just backing off, now he's simply flat out saying he doesn't love you but wants to have sex with you still? I agree, thats unusually cruel. You've got to find the strength to move away from this person as he is not doing anything to make your life better. You need to meet someone new, or meet new people, anything to get him out of your system. Most of all you need to focus on yourself. Set some type of goal for yourself and focus on that. You can do anything you put your mind to.
You know something...I never saw your last response, I apologize for that, I would have never left you hanging like that. How are you doing now? Are you still in contact with him?