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Question

I have a 1988 audi 90 with 2.3. cylinder #3 plug is always wet with gas. replaced wires cap rotor, switched injector lines at the distribution box switched injectors at the head. compression is 150 to 160 in all cylinders. What am I over looking to get #3 to fire.

Submitted: 815 days and 13 hours ago.
Category: Car
Value: $15
Status: CLOSED
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Optional Information

Optional Information:
1988 Audi 90 2.3 5cyl

Already Tried:
plugs wires cap rotor. fuel injection parts new rings. plug fires when out reinstall pull out it is wet.

Posted by dvanpraag 815 days and 11 hours ago.

Answer

You might have a leaky injector that never fully closes between pulses. Since there is always pressure behind the injectors this might be your cause.

Posted by Max 814 days and 14 hours ago.

Info Request

When you did the compression test did you disable the fuel delivery and open the throttle all the way? The injectors have been swapped yet plug three is still wet, is that correct? Have you done a leakdown on cylinder three? Thank you

814 days and 14 hours ago.

Reply

Reply to dvanpraag's Post: I though that so I switched injector #3 and #1 hoping the problem would go to #1 cylinder so I would know for sure that the injector was bad. However the problem stayed with #3.

Posted by Max 814 days and 14 hours ago.

Info Request

Why I asked if you had disabled the fuel pump was because while the engine is cranking during the compression test the injectors are pumping fuel. As you well know the CIS injectors are opened by fuel pressure. If the fuel pump is operating fuel will be getting into the cylinders and this can skew the compression readings. If the fuel pump was active during the compression test redo it with the pump disabled and post the results. If the pump was disabled then there is another reason why it is not firing the mixture properly. I have to make the trek home but will check your info after getting the kids settled in. Max

814 days and 14 hours ago.

Reply

I did not disable the fuel system and open the trottle like I should when I did the compression check. It read near 125 in #3 the rest where at 150. squirted oil in 3 it came up to 150. with throttle closed. Changed rings thinking low compression so plug would not ignite fuel. After new rings #3 came up to 150's the other where in the 160's.

Posted by Max 814 days and 11 hours ago.

Info Request

All right, seems like you have done quite a bit of work to fix this concern. Let's see, new rings, new cap, rotor and wires, swapped injectors from cylinder one to cylinder three, and the plug will fire when removed from the cylinder. I assume that the plugs have been moved around. What type of plugs are you using? Platinums and brands like Autolite generally do not do well in this engine. When you had the head off to re-ring the pistons were there any cracks present (common between the valves but fully acceptable) or excessive carbon build up on the backs of the valves? Is there enough air entering the combustion chamber (possible bad lifter?) When you performed the compression test did the reading for cylinder number three rise as quickly as the other three cylinders? The timing is most likely good. Any excessive cam wear? A lot of questions here, just trying to think out loud. I have an 86 4000 with over 300k and no problems with the fuel injection yet. Hope this helps to think outside the box. If you have any more info please send it. Max

814 days and 11 hours ago.

Reply

Thanks for your comments and ideals I have tried lots of things and it has me baffled. all the valves looked good no carbon build up to really speak of on valves or pistons. Hone cross hatch was still present on tear down miliage reads over 145,000. Engine was clean inside #3 builds compression in 4 stages the others go up in 2-3 pumps. No lifter noise present. running bosch plugs plat 2 4310 put the #3 plug in another cylinder it fires.

Posted by Max 814 days and 11 hours ago.

Info Request

Was the wear on the lifters consistent? Did the wear indicate that the cam is "spinning" them to promote even wear. If they are not spinning and cup in the center the valve will not fully open. Can or have you done a leakdown on this cylinder? Sometimes a leakdown will highlight problems that are missed by a compression test. Did you try a non-platinum plug? The Bosch platinum 2 are very good but it would be interesting to see what happens with a non-platinum. When the compression built up in four stages did it do it in equal increments or a large jump followed by small gains in pressure? I know more questions, no solid answers. Max

814 days and 10 hours ago.

Reply

the questions are good hoping you ask one that I did not think of. Did not pull the cam and look at lifters or the push disc. Tried not to disturb any more parts than I needed to. Did put 2 numbers hotter autolite in #3 to see if it would fire the gas no luck. compression built fairly even starting around 40 -50. I do not want to keep putting money into it untill I know where to go next. paid $700 for the car for my son body is good car is solid. He has been driving it 30 miles 1 way to work this whole week runs strong around 2500 to 3000 rpm runs real rough at idle.

Posted by Max 814 days and 10 hours ago.

Info Request

Did you try switching the injector lines, not at the distributor but at the injectors? It would be interesting to see if this caused the problem to move. Only one plug is wet correct, none of the other plugs are wet? Just wondering if the plug wires were improperly installed before you got the vehicle. The firing order used to be on the cylinder head, but I doubt this is a concern as you have already completed more difficult repairs. Fuel, air and spark are all there, are there any vacuum leaks present in the lines around the cylinder head? Can you hear a sucking noise at idle? I am running out of ideas here. I think that I have thought of all the different things I have seen in the past. Will keep thinking about it as it is a good puzzle. Max

812 days and 20 hours ago.

Reply

Reply to Max's Post: I have one thing I forgot to mention is the rpm suppose to drop or stall when oil cap is removed? This engine does unless I unplug the pvc line and plug going in the intake boot than remove oil cap the rpm stays steady. That was another reason I thought the rings where bad. I will pay after you respond to this reply. THANX for your help

Posted by Max 812 days and 11 hours ago.

Answer

I went outside to check how the 2.3 in my Audi reacts when I remove the oil cap. The idle remained steady with the cap off. Looking at the engine made me wonder if you have cleaned the idle air control unit (carb cleaner will work) or checked the cold start injector for a possible leak. Didn't see anything else that you may have missed. Please don't hit accept as I have not helped you fix the concern. I enjoy doing this as it makes you think in different directions. Enjoy the rest of the weekend. Max

812 days and 10 hours ago.

Reply

Just wanted to update you did a correct compression test wide ope throttle disabled fuel pump, all cylinders read within 10 lbs of each other at 180 lbs. going up to 120 on first pump.
I think my problem is the injector distributor. long story car quit 1 hour after purchasing no fuel coming out of distributor. Tore it apart and all 6 o-rings inside where in pieces. Can not by parts for distributor so I found rings to put back in it. I beleive fuel is leaking around #3 slit. I previsly swaped injector lines in distributor thinking it was #3 I moved but I strongly think it was not 3 I swaped therfore the problem stayed in 3 making me look else where boy do I feel dump. Does this make sense to you. Know I have to find a distributor used and hope it is good. New ones are a grand I will not spend that much on the car. THANX the advise. should the inside of idle control slide back and forth?

Posted by Max 812 days and 10 hours ago.

Answer

Makes sense to me as all of the other possibilites have been ruled out. The inside of the idle control is worth cleaning regardless of how it looks. The actuator will move when it is rotated side to side quickly.

Don't feel dumb about this, I can't tell you how many times I have overthought a problem when the solution was right there is front of me, someone usually walks by and points outg the problem, duh.

I hope that you are able to find a new distributor. Try and find out what other Audis the part number cross references to. It may be easier to find one of an 5000 for example. Good luck with your search and congrats for finding the cause of the concern. Max

812 days and 10 hours ago.

Reply

I am not totally sure, but if it is the cause I will let you know and someday the info might come in handy. my actuator does not move at all. I feel dumb because I swapped out two injector lines beleiving on of them was #3 cylinder, making me beleive the distributor was not the problem.

809 days and 10 hours ago.

Reply

Reply to Max's Post: Wanted to let you know swapped the fuel distributor it is running good on all 5 cylinders. I am going to accept your next answer for this question. Why do you think the rpms drop down and than stalls when I remove the oil filler cap? If I unplug the hose running into the bottom of the crankcase driver side and plug the end from the carb intake boot than remove the oil cap it stays running. This was another reason I installed new rings thinking I had bad blow by. Would this mean the idle control is not working correctly?

Accepted Answer

Hey XXXXXXXXXX,

Great to hear that you have the vehicle running well. Thank you for getting back to me with the good news. As for why the idle drops and the engine dies with the oil cap off I am not 100 percent certain. I did check this on my vehicle and the engine stays running with no real drop in the idle. But I have a slightly different breather system. The crackcase is vented through the cylinder head on my engine and not the block. I don't think that you have a bad idle air control (IAC) valve. When the IAC fails the engine will either not hold and idle or will be difficult to start. On newer VWs the idle will drop if the oil cap is removed as you are creating a large vacuum leak, probably what is happening to your engine. Unlike the newer models the older ones did not adapt to large changes in the air/fuel mixture quite as quickly. As long as the engine is running well and you do not have excessive oil consumption I would not worry about it. These engines should not be using very much oil, if any. Sounds like your son may have a decent car for not a ton of money. Congrats. Max

Expert: Max
Pos. Feedback: 100.0 %
Accepts: 
Answered: 9/4/2007

VW Shop Foreman

VW certified lead technician, ASE certified Master Technician, 10 years experience

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