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On april 6th of this year I received a new budgie, as a gift from my husband. I have had birds for over 20 years and many budgies. I have always been able to guess the sex of a budgie very easily, this one however is very difficult to figure out. The bird had just ended what was almost certainly it's first molt when (s)he came home as I could see the remnants of the barring on the forehead. Also the eye ring was still very very faint and continues to lighten to now. I know that prior to that first molt it is pretty easy to tell if a budgie is a boy or a girl by the cere: a rosy-pinkish in males and whitish-blue in females, except in certain colour varieties though I am certain that this bird is a Cobalt Opaline. The body colour is periwinkle and the head and face white. The upper back has the characteristic "V" where the shell markings and barring up the back of the neck are paler. This bird's cere however is far from typical that I am used to since it has the distinct purplish-blue of a grown male but only on the lower edge. Towards the nostrils it becomes a much paler blue and even a yellow-white at and in the nostrils themselves. At a glance one would think for sure this is a mature male but knowing the age - I am thinking (s)he was born on or about christmas (let me know if you agree) and is now only 5 months old and seems to be starting the next molt. Of course looking at the budgie closer and in the light the yellow-white of the top and sides of the cere is very obvious and becomes even lighter at the actual nostrils. I should add that the behavior seems very typical of a female. The bird will suddenly make the "mad budgie noise" a lot - you know that intense "bap, bap, bap, bap" after which (s)he will sometimes do a little budgie chattering. This only lasts for a short duration so (s)he sings once or twice a day for any signifigant length of time. (S)he also does the normal budgie call in resonse to our other birds in the house and has doubled up on the call imitating our Sun Conure whoes calls are in twos ie: "screech, screech - screech, screech". In other words I see a little indication of some mimicking (only Males do that?) I see him or her picking a lot at the Cholla Cactus Perch as well as the (pet safe) plastic plants that decorate cage. I have many toys most of which have very small mirrors, as I don't want a large mirror for obvious reasons and the budgie does most of the singing in front of the biggist one. (S)he seems to be doing a tiny bit of regurgitating on it as well since they are not as clean as they once were! :) Beyond that the bird is very quiet and still most of the time not sleeping just sitting sometimes playing a little with the toys. Not knowing the sex is driving us nuts! My husband wants to name "her" April and I could not stand to have a poor male named that! I really want to make a final decision on a name I don't know how to refer to the poor bird. Please let me know what you think I hope I gave you all of the information you need and probably too much! Thank you! - Caroline

Submitted: 1270 days and 20 hours ago.

Category: Cat

Value: $15

Status: AWAITING EXPERT REPLY

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Posted by Patricia 1270 days and 18 hours ago.

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Hi Caroline. Oh no, no such thing as too much information. I only wish all folks who ask about birds would understand that the more info. they provide, the better their answer is likely to be. I appreciate all the detail you provided. I can see that you are already well versed in your Budgie information. Therefore, I'm sure you also know that the more we get in to the color mutations and adding the factors like Opaline, etc., the less sure we are able to be of sexing by visuals. Very similar to the difficulties when we have Cockatiels of the many color variations. It's difficult to find information that will talk about Opalines and visually sexing, in the same article. Based on all the factors you describe, I have to lean towards the bird being male. Another thing to consider is the color mutation he may actually be. You describe him as "periwinkle". True periwinkle is generally a much light blue than the Cobalt. If he has had a true full molt, he may remain the lighter color. If he has not yet had it, he may darken a bit with the next one. I can't weigh in stongly on the age thing either, based on the molting. Having them in our climate controlled enviornments can sometimes wreak havoc on their biological timing, including everything from molts to hormones. These color mutation situations can be so tricky, not many folks, including me, who cannot see the bird with their own eyes, are going to stick out their neck and give a definite yes or no. I'm going to insert a couple links in here just in case they may have some additional information on the Opaline factor that you don't have yet.

Click here: The Opaline Factor

Click here: Budgies: A Rainbow of Colors!

I think the safest thing for you to do, if you feel strongly about the naming situation, is to either wait for one more molt, (a molt that you know is a fully adult molt) and keep an eye on that cere, or get a DNA test. Just a side note; I have a Senegal who was not DNA'd until he was over a year old. By that time it was way too late to change his name from Sadie. We have all survived him being such a macho, strutting little he-man, with the prissy name. I do understand you wanting to know for sure however, and I wish I could give you an absolute decision. It just would not be responsible for me to do that in this case. I would much rather be totally honest with you and have you consider us again if needed, than to tell you something I cannot be positive about. I do hope some of this is helpful to you however and wish you the best of luck with what has to be a beautiful bird, male or female. If you think I might help any further with some other aspect of it, don't hesitate to ask. Patricia

1270 days and 17 hours ago.

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Reply to Patricia's Post: Maybe periwinkle isn't the correct colour description. He is exactly the same colour as a tanzanite gemstone, you can look those up easily and see this bird's precise colour. It is a dark blue with a hint of purple. Do female budgies sing at all? Is it the bluish cere that makes you think male and which behaviours have you leaning towards male? Thank you again - Caroline

Posted by Patricia 1270 days and 12 hours ago.

Answer

Okay, here is my very scientific method (hee hee) for arriving at my conclusion. The apparent attempts at imitation; the apparent singing; and the color of the cere.

All the information I have gathered about Budgies and gender, does admit the cere color can be problematic in the mutations, But, it all still refers to the females as being pink to beige. It seems that the males may either have the color or can lean to the pinks or beiges.

One other thing we didn't talk about so you will have to make your own visual on it, if you have a way to compare is the head. Several different sources say the head of a male "tends" to be rounder, while the females are more flat.

Having birds that many years, I'm guessing you are familiar with the begging sounds they can make when wanting to revert and have a hand feeding? It crossed my mind to wonder if by any chance, that might account for the "bap-bap" sound? Of course that has nothing to do with gender but just thought I'd toss it in since I wondered about it.

You may be right on with the Cobalt if he really is pretty dark. Next time you see a box of Crayola crayons, check out the Periwinkle and you'll see why I was in doubt, going by that description of him. It's probaby going to be a fair amount lighter than your bird.

Another thing is the mirror issue. I know why you feel that way and I know many others tend to agree. However, there are also a lot of folks who are finding out it doesn't necessarily apply, all the time and to all birds. I think current trains of thought about behavior are coming around to accept that giving a bird a mirror will not automatically cause them to bond with it nor think of it sexually and even for those that do, there is no real harm in it, especially for a bird living alone in a cage. It can be very comforting. I have a male tiel who originally was a lone bird in his cage. Over time it has become him, another male and three females all sharing a large flight cage. He has had a large mirror on wheels that he can shove around on the cage grate. He has always loved his mirror, still does. But it has never come between he and I and our bond, nor he and any of the other Tiels, one of which he obviously considers his "mate".

On the name thing, if hubby is set on naming it after the month, and unless you think it still sounds too girly, the Spanish translation for April is Abril. Phonetically;

a-BREE-ul. (Another little extra thought that drifted through.) I don't know if this was any additional help but maybe explains upon what, I'm basing my best prediction. Patricia

1270 days and 8 hours ago.

Reply

Reply to Patricia's Post: Yes this helps a lot more. The bap bap noise is definetely not reverting it is the excited noise they make and they do it in concession. Bap, bap, bap, bap, bap...... as they go back and forth on a perch then tap a toy. Then begin the chattering. The tone of that same noise goes down and the sound is drawn out if, lets say, you are trying to pick up the bird by grabbing- you know that mad noise they do.

In terms of the singing/chattering then females don't do it at all? I always thought they just did it less often and males go on and on all day with it.

About the mirrors I too have decided they are not that big a problem and I do allow them. All of the toys have tiny ones so he can see himself all over the cage! :) But I had broken down and bought these really cute hanging mirrors - one shaped like the moon and the other like a parakeet! He loves those and is "feeding" them a little. Is that then something a female would not do at all?

far as the name goes I have researched all the different ways of saying April so that is a very good idea. I also thought of "Kimba" which is an Aboriginal word I came accross while name searching. It meens Bush Fire in Australia - my daughter and I thought this was funny because the top of his head gets very pink, almost red when he gets excited or nervous. It is like my African Grey's face does. So we thought that was cute.
We also looked at the photos we first took when he came home and there were definetely bars left on the forehead and lots of pin feathers too - so, can we be fairly certain of the age then? The eye looked like a button then and now the eye ring is noticably lighter....
Since "Noel" is another thought for a name since he is probably a Christmas baby - a good choice since it goes both ways! :-) I would like to feel better about knowing the age :)
I guess it boils down to regardless if there is whitish near the nostrils at this age a blue cere means boy especialy if he is singing at all and doing some mimmicking of other birds patterns. In other words are these behaviours females don't do at all?
I also read that if a budgie is an Opaline it is more likely to be a girl since the trait is sexualy linked and recesive - and more often showing outwardly in females is that true? Thanks again - Caroilne

Accepted Answer

I can only mostly repeat what I've already said. I'm weighing out all the descriptions you gave, each against the other and giving you my best possible interpretation of them. The more levels of mutation that are added when various birds are mated together, the more unsure and unreliable all visual clues become. As those visuals become more unreliable, then we have to go by behavior characteristics. I feel you have described more male characteristics than female. There is just no way for anyone to give you more than their very best, educated, experience based, guess. No matter the amount of knowledge and experience I or anyone else may have, it's still just that, a best guess. If you want an absolute guarantee, you are going to have to go with the DNA test. You can get one done a lot cheaper than going through a vet, if you decide that's the way to go. You can order kits for testing from Avian Biotech. Click here: Avian Services Center: DNA sexing and disease testing for all species of birds.. It costs nothing to order the kit. You only pay when you return it to them with the sample and the cost is based on what kind of test you want. The last time I used one for DNA, it was about $20.00. They are a very reliable and reputable lab or I would not recommend them. The results are very fast, usually within 24 hours of them receiving the sample, you can get your results on line. They follow up in regular mail with a certificate of the results. That may be the way you need to go to be assured, beyond any doubt, of the gender. Good luck. Patricia

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Expert:	Patricia
Pos. Feedback:	100.0 %
Answered:	6/2/2006

Pet Advisor

Several yrs. exp. with all types of pets, specializing in parrot care and behavior.

1268 days and 19 hours ago.

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Relist: I still need help.
I would like more opinions while I wait for DNA testing.

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Relist: I still need help. I would like more opinions while I wait for DNA testing.

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I would like more opinions while I wait for DNA testing.