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Question

I agreed to buy doors from oldeworldart in march of 2009. I have paid 3 installs of $10,500. The 4th install was supposed to be after delivery and installation. When he showed up with the doors, the finish was differant from the finish I orderd. I gave him the option to either give me the finish I asked for or credit me the cost of refinishing it myself. He refused and just and conned me into letting him take the doors back. I disputed the charges. Mastercard has let him keep his money. He claims there is a disclaimer on his website stating that the finish is not gauranteed and that he took his doors back becuase I would not sign for delivery. Both of which are lies. He now has my money and my doors. He also is now operating under a new name called masterpeice doors and shutters.

Submitted: 24 days and 13 hours ago.
Category: Legal
Value: $18
Status: CLOSED
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Optional Information

State/Country relating to Question: Illinois

Already Tried:
I have disputed with mastercard and failed. I have contacted the company again 2 days after I receiced their new website info. I have not heard from them.

Posted by Maverick 24 days and 13 hours ago.

Info Request

Is there a website where I can read this disclaimer in more detial?

24 days and 13 hours ago.

Reply

His website is http://www.oldeworldart.com/. He also has a unconditional 10 year warranty ad on his first page right under the phone nember that is now disconnected. His new website is http://www.masterpiecedoors.com/. He clearly gave me one of the differant finishes he is offering. I had him make a fresh larger sample to make sure it would look the same. His large sample looked the same as his small smaple. I gae hiom the goahead. They are claiming it is a slight varaition. His color is clearly differantI took pics and send them to mastercard. MAStercard has decided to go with the disclaimer and an expert who stated on his letterhead that the color was the same. I could send you the pics.

Posted by Maverick 24 days and 13 hours ago.

Info Request

I looked at the first website that you sent me and did not find any disclaimer what so ever. Did I miss something?

 

Also, if I am correct that there is no disclaimer on the first website, is this the website that you relied on at the time that you ordered the doors. If so, I would suggest that you print out this first website , every page of it and save it for your records.

 

When did the new website show up?

Posted by Maverick 24 days and 13 hours ago.

Info Request

I also did not see the disclaimer that you said mastercard relied upon on the 2nd website. Where is this disclaimer?

24 days and 12 hours ago.

Reply

MAster card releied on his statement and the text of this email

 

In making our garage doors we start with a pre-manufactured insulated door slab. This is a panel manufactured by General Door made of a rough sawn weather-resistant masonite exterior and a smooth masonite interior. We fabricate our seamless Extira sheet with the carved and cutout details per the Cad drawings and laminate it to the premanufactured door panel. This is a common custom garage door manufacturing technique, except in our case we are using our prefinished Extira product instead of wood, plywood, or aluminum. Using the premanufactured door as the base of our unit is the key to making a great garage door. These are light weight, energy efficient, strong panels. They are very flat and have excellently engineered struts and internal components. By adding our seamless Extira layer to the outside, we are adding to the weight of the door but this is compensated for by replacing the torsion springs and heavy duty track to conform to the proper weight. Although we do make our entry doors out of the solid Extira composite material, it is not possible to make a garage door using the same technique. Extira is not structural on its own. Our entry doors have steel reinforced engineered rails and stiles and are very heavy. Your front doors will weigh approx. 200lb.s each. Solid Extira garage doors would not be able to be lifted by any means and they would not have the support they would need to span 18ft. horizontally. I can finish the interior of the doors with the Bronze plated finish. The reason I advise against that is this: The Bronze is a hand applied, acid patina finish. It has some variation in color and texture from area to area. This feature is precisely why we use this type finish instead of "bronze colored paint". This quality is enhanced when applied to interesting surfaces and various levels and contours. If applied to a large flat area, it would look imperfect, and variable. Think of it like, the difference between a bronze statue, with high lites and contours in the varying surfaces and a sheet of bronze plywood, were those same color variations would look like flaws and imperfections. That is why I was recommending that, if you want the bronze color on the interior, that we prime and paint it with a complimentary color but not use the actual plating technique used on the outside. Then on a large smooth flat surface the color and sheen would be even and consistent. Let me know if this answerers your questions. Thanks

Posted by Maverick 24 days and 12 hours ago.

Info Request

The reason I advise against that is this: The Bronze is a hand applied, acid patina finish. It has some variation in color and texture from area to area. This feature is precisely why we use this type finish instead of "bronze colored paint". This quality is enhanced when applied to interesting surfaces and various levels and contours. If applied to a large flat area, it would look imperfect, and variable. Think of it like, the difference between a bronze statue, with high lites and contours in the varying surfaces and a sheet of bronze plywood, were those same color variations would look like flaws and imperfections. That is why I was recommending that, if you want the bronze color on the interior, that we prime and paint it with a complimentary color but not use the actual plating technique used on the outside. Then on a large smooth flat surface the color and sheen would be even and consistent.

 

 

 

1. The part above does not sound like a general disclaimer that is issued broadly to all customers, it sounds like it is a specific response they made to a specific inquiry that you made about having the interior of the door finished with a broze plated finish. Am I correct in my understanding?

 

2. Does this have anything to do with the color of the finish that you complained about when the doors arrived? For example, did their disclaimer talk about the inside color of the door while your complaint was with the outside color.

 

24 days and 12 hours ago.

Reply

No.

Posted by Maverick 24 days and 12 hours ago.

Info Request

Please take the time to answer both parts 1 and 2 of my questions and provide a proper response so that I can assist you better. I do not understand where this disclaimer is posted, whether you ever saw such disclaimer before you bought the doors, etc. Without answering these questions it is difficult for any one to give you any real adivice unles you just wnat somw generic adive like going to file a claim in court for breach of contract, etc.

 

24 days and 11 hours ago.

Reply

No I did not see a disclaimer on their website either. That is what Citibank my master card company is telling me that they said. She also referred to the email. I explained to them that email was in response to the interior of my doors and not my exterior. But I do not beleive they read any of the coumentation. Citibank cannot give me a clear answer why they are letting him keep it. In my last conversation they said to me that they canno force the vendor to give me all they can do is request on my behalf. They also said that the merchant mentioned that they were custom doors and that he could not sell it to anybody else. I pointed out that he has a closeout section on his website where he sells doors that are the wrong size, wrong clor or wrong swing. AS of now Master cards sugggestion is to call him back again.

Posted by Maverick 24 days and 11 hours ago.

Answer

Okay, based on the information that you have provided, it appears that you have a vialble case for breach of contract, misreprsentation, breach of warranty, and best of all, violation of the deceptive trade practices (DTPA).

 

Your biggest obstable is going to be that the company you dealth with appears to be out of Atlanta, GA and you are in IL. What this means for you is that you are going to have to hire a GA lawyer to sue them in the county where there business is located. MOre on this later.

 

First, you need to start applying pressure using the exisiting efficient channels. File a consumer complaints with the Atlanta Better Business BUreau, the GA attorney general's office, and any other such agencies you can find. Try this link also:

http://www.consumerwebwatch.org/consumer-center.cfm

 

Next, you can try to sue them in IL small claims court based on a tort committed in IL (DTPA) theory of jurisdiction. The small claims court limit in IL is 10k so if the court allows you to file the suit, I would serve them with it and see if you can get them to settle right after you file since they will have to either hire lawyers or travel to IL to defend. If you win, you will then have to domesticate the judgment in GA, but that is not too hard.

 

If the IL small claims court will not let you file for lack of jurisdiction, then you will need to find a consumer law lawyer from the links below that is in their county in GA and see if he will send out a DTPA demand letter and follow up with a suit. The DTPA allows for legal fees and punitive damages, so a lawyer may be willing to take the case on a 33% contingency fee basis or may be able to extract a settlelment for you.

Please click "Accept" so that I can get credit for this answer. We can continue our conversation after that at no additional charge.

 

24 days and 11 hours ago.

Reply

Thankyou for the detailed options. I did file with the Atlanta BBB 3 days ago. I am putting togehter documetnation for the attorney generals office. Not sure though if that would be atlanta AG or IL AG. My question is would IL have jurisdiction since the agreement was made face to face in my dining room. He did fly out to make his presentation and show me his samples, bwefore I agreed.

24 days and 11 hours ago.

Reply

Also would I be suing oldeworldart, masterpeice doors or the guy that was in my dining room who is the owner or the spouse of the owner of both companies

Accepted Answer

Yes, very good, if he came to your home, yes IL has better leg to stand on for jurisdiction than if it was done by phone or web. I would file at both AG's offices.

 

I would sue all three just to be safe. You will need to plead misreprsentation and also a thoery called alter ego and piercing the corporate viel if they are incorporated to make sure that one of them does not get out. Also since there is an unconditional warranty, you can argue that his neew company has to honor that warranty - breach of warranty claim - so that is why you have sued the new company as well.

 

If he is not incorporated, then sue all three as well because then all three are considered one oand the same if it is a sole prop.

 

Please click "Accept" so that I can get credit for this answer.

 

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Expert: Maverick
Pos. Feedback: 98.0 %
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Answered: 10/29/2009

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10 + years experience in civil litigation, jury trials, and business law;

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