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Question

I am buying a mobile home in San Clemente CA after my condo closes 11/27. I want to know if my facts and logic are correct and if any better options are avail(I can share more data after an answer). I am using the following financial information to make decisions: Year AGIs from form 1040 filed since 2006 2006 $105,056 2007 $36,869 2008 $31,111 2009 $122,356 '06-'09 sum $295,392 Current+3 past years 4yr avg $73,848 Assume 09 earnings= $40,356 So Sec + Pension Other '09 income: $82,000 from 401K $18,000 from Roth IRA - no tax $122,356 Taxable income $140,356 Gross Income in 2009 $100,000 $ for Mhome from IRA & 401K State @ 9% > 37K $3,316 9% of 4 yr avg State @ 6% < 37K $4,431 6% of $37K Fed tax @ 28% > 80K= $0 28% of 4 yr avg > $80K Fed tax @25% < 80K= $18,462 25% of 4 yr avg < $80K $26,209 = 2009 taxes to be paid in 2010 Also, will I need quarterly State or Fed pmts in 2010? Thanks!

Submitted: 31 days and 3 hours ago.
Category: Tax
Value: $15
Status: CLOSED
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Got the fed and state rates from a CPA today.

Posted by LEV 31 days and 2 hours ago.

Answer

hi,

let estimate your 2009 tax liability.

-- earnings - $40,356 - from wages?

-- $82,000 from 401K - taxable - are you taking a full distribution?

-- $18,000 from Roth IRA - not taxable - are you taking a distribution?

-- $40,356 SS benefits + Pension - we need to separate because they are taxed differently.

Total gross income (without Roth IRA distribution) $122,356

 

For your itemized deduction in 2009 only

mortgage interest paid in 2009 $3,316

real estate taxes - ?

property taxes -?

state taxes paid in 2009 - ?

charitable contributions - ?

other items deductible on the schedule A - ?

 

Please provide all these information to complete the estimation.

 

We will move to 2010 after completing with 2009

31 days ago.

Reply

-- $82,000 from 401K - taxable - are you taking a full distribution? - No about 33%

-- $18,000 from Roth IRA - not taxable - are you taking a distribution? -Full distribution.

-- $40,356 SS benefits + Pension - we need to separate because they are taxed differently- $19728 Pension, $15405 unemployment, $5232 So Sec, all 3 sources had about 10% withholding for Fed and 5% State

 

I am asking about whether or not to get a loan of $50K-75K. I paid no martgage interest in 2009, I won the condo. If I get no loan in 2009, I will just use the standard deduction on 2009 1040 form

Accepted Answer

So your estimated 2009 tax liability.

-- $82,000* 33% = $27060 - taxable distribution from 401K

-- $18,000 distribution from Roth IRA - not taxable

-- $19728 Pension - taxable

-- $15405 unemployment benefits - taxable

-- $5232 Social Security benefits 85% taxable or - $4447

Total taxable income $27060 +$19728 +$15405 +$4447 = $66640

 

Your deductions

-- standard deduction for 2009 - $5700 (will be additional $1400 if you are 65+ - please confirm)

-- personal exemption for one person - $3650

taxable income - $57290

regular tax $10510

 

If you qualify for first time home buyer's credit - $8000

total federal income tax withholding from all sources - $4000 - please confirm

Your estimated 2009 refund ~$1500

 

Now - 2010

please list all your 2010 income items.

 

Please let me know if any correction in the above estimate is needed.

 

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Expert: LEV
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Answered: 10/21/2009

Tax Preparer

Taxes, Immigration, Labor Relations

30 days and 23 hours ago.

Reply

-- $82,000* 33% = $27060 - taxable distribution from 401K

-- $5232 Social Security benefits 85% taxable or - $4447

This is good news. Have these rates always been less than 100%?

 

Unfortunately at age 62, I have already bought 3 homes, no $8K credit for me.

 

I may have to take another 401K distribution in 2010 to pay 2009 tax, we'll see.

 

Thank you for your understanding and detailed answer.

Posted by LEV 30 days and 23 hours ago.

Answer

Social Security benefits are never fully taxable - 85% is a maximum taxable part.

To have Social Security benefits not taxable at all - here is the test - take your other taxable income plus half of your Social Security benefits - if that amount is less than $25,000 - none of your Social Security benefits are taxable.

Example - if your other taxable income = pension + taxable distributions will be $20,000 and your Social Security benefits $10,000 - none of your Social Security benefits would be taxable and your only taxable income will be $20,000.

 

You wrote above

-- $82,000 from 401K - taxable - are you taking a full distribution? - No about 33%

so - I assumed that you will take only 33% of your 401k plan - if that incorrect - let me know.

 

without the first time home buyer's credit - you will have tax liability ~$8500

Let me know if you need any help.

 

30 days and 20 hours ago.

Reply

- - I assumed that you will take only 33% of your 401k plan - if that incorrect - let me know.

I need $82K which is 33% of $240K, the total value of the 401K. I expect your next reply will show a larger estimated 2009 tax liability.

 

My pension is $1644/mo, $19728/yr. My So sec payment is $1744/mo, $20628/yr so again, I expect more bad news is on the way.

 

Also can you explain if any conditions I have mentioned will require me to make quarterly payments to the IRS?

Posted by LEV 30 days and 11 hours ago.

Answer

Unfortunately - the situation i snot as good as it seemed - I have to recalculate your estimation based on provided corrections:

So your updated estimated 2009 tax liability.

-- $82,000 - taxable distribution from 401K

-- $18,000 distribution from Roth IRA - not taxable

-- $19728 Pension - taxable

-- $15405 unemployment benefits - taxable

-- $20628 Social Security benefits 85% taxable or - $17534

Total taxable income $82000 +$19728 +$15405 +$17534 = $134667 - please verify if that correct.

 

Your deductions

-- standard deduction for 2009 - $5700

-- personal exemption for one person - $3650

taxable income - $125317

regular tax $28809

 

Because of your taxable income - $125317 - you are in 28% tax bracket - means any additional distribution will be taxed at 28%.

If your taxable income overpasses $171,550 - you will be pushed into 33% tax bracket - means - every dollar above that limit will be taxed at 33%.

 

There will be California state income tax - ~$11,000.

I might suggest to pay California income tax in 2009 and you will be able to itemize your deduction. You may also prepay real estate and property taxes in 2009 - that will allow to deduct them all together on the schedule A. Let me know if you need help with estimations.

 

Income tax is a pay-as-you-go tax, which means that tax must be paid as you earn or receive your income during the year. You can either do this through withholding or by making estimated tax payments. If you do not pay enough tax, you may have to pay a penalty for underpayment of estimated tax. Generally, most taxpayers will have paid enough tax to avoid this penalty if they owe less than $1,000 in tax after subtracting their withholdings and credits, or if they paid at least 90% of the tax for the current year, or 100% of the tax shown on the return for the prior year, whichever is smaller.

The penalty may be waived if:

  1. The failure to make estimated payments was caused by a casualty, disaster, or other unusual circumstance and it would be inequitable to impose the penalty, or
  2. You retired (after reaching age 62) or became disabled during the tax year for which estimated payments were required to be made or in the preceding tax year, and the underpayment was due to reasonable cause and not willful neglect.

Let me know if you need any help.

 

30 days and 3 hours ago.

Reply

Here is my best attempt to give you the data needed to estimate my 2010 tax liability.

Use this data to calculate the 3 year income averaging method for 2010 tax estimate

 

Yearly

Line 37 AGIs from1040s filed since 2006

 

 

2006

$105,056

 

 

 

 

 

2007

$36,869

 

 

 

 

 

2008

$31,111

 

 

 

 

 

2009

$122,356

 

 

 

 

 

'06-'08 sum

$295,392

Current+3 past years

 

 

 

4yr avg

$73,848

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So Sec from 9-12/09, Unemp 4-9/09

 

2009 earnings=

$40,356

So Sec + Pension + unemployment

 

Other '09 income:

$82,000

from 401K

 

 

 

 

 

$18,000

from Roth IRA - no tax

 

 

 

 

$122,356

Taxable income excludes Roth IRA

 

 

 

$140,356

Gross Income in 2009

 

 

 

 

$100,000

$ needed for Mhome from IRA & 401K

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

State @ 9% > 37K

$3,316

9% of 4 yr avg

 

 

State @ 6% < 37K

$4,431

6% of $37K

 

 

 

Fed tax @ 28% > 80K=

$0

28% of 4 yr avg > $80K

 

 

Fed tax @25% < 80K=

$18,462

25% of 4 yr avg < $80K

 

 

 

 

$26,209

2009 taxes to be paid in 2010

 

 

 

 

Do I need quarterly pmts in '10?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cost of 147 Mira Del Norte

$280,000

 

 

 

Net from sale of my condo

$183,501

 

 

 

IRA & 401K Funds

 

$100,000

 

 

 

Net available

 

$283,501

 

 

 

 

If you need more information, please let me know, Thanks again!

30 days and 3 hours ago.

Reply

Here is another attempt at the data for 2010 estimated tax:

Use this data to calculate the 3 year income averaging method for 2010 tax estimate

Year

Line 37 AGI Amts

 

 

 

2006

$105,056

 

 

 

 

 

2007

$36,869

 

 

 

 

 

2008

$31,111

 

 

 

 

 

2009

$122,356

 

 

 

 

 

'06-'08 sum

$295,392

Current+3 past years

 

 

 

4yr avg

$73,848

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2009 income &

Earnings

 

So Sec from 9-12/09, Unemp 4-9/09

 

2009 earnings =

$40,356

So Sec + Pension + unemployment

 

Other '09 income:

$82,000

from 401K

 

 

 

$19728 Pension

 

$18,000

from Roth IRA - no tax

 

 

$15405 unemp

 

$122,356

Taxable income excludes Roth IRA

 

$ 5232 So Sec

 

$140,356

Gross Income in 2009

 

 

$40356 total

 

$100,000

$ needed for Mhome from IRA & 401K

 

 

Tax calc info

 

 

 

 

 

 

State tax @ 9% > 37K

$3,316

9% of 4 yr avg

 

 

State tax @ 6% < 37K

$4,431

6% of $37K

 

 

 

Fed tax @ 28% > 80K=

$0

28% of 4 yr avg > $80K

 

 

Fed tax @25% < 80K=

$18,462

25% of 4 yr avg < $80K

 

 

 

 

$26,209

2009 taxes to be paid in 2010

 

 

 

 

Do I need quarterly pmts in '10?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cost of 147 Mira Del Norte

$280,000

 

 

 

Net from sale of my condo

$183,501

 

 

 

IRA & 401K Funds

$100,000

 

 

 

Net available

$283,501

 

 

 

Posted by LEV 30 days and 3 hours ago.

Answer

OK,

hope we are clear now on 2009 tax liability.

 

For income tax purposes - taxable income is determined based on the time the income is received - unless you are in business which selected accrual accounting method.

 

The income averaging is available only for those in farming or fishing business and for certain distributions from pension funds.

 

You may not use income averaging in your situation.

Your 2010 income for tax purposes should be determined based on the time it is received.

I suggest you to list your 2010 expected income - and we will do estimation in similar manner.

 

30 days and 2 hours ago.

Reply

This URL and turbo tax 2008 led me to believe I can use 3 year income averaging, what am I missing? http://www.ask.com/bar?q=3+year+income+average&page=1&qsrc=0&ab=0&title=Income+Averagin g%3A+Definition+from+Answers.com&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.answers.com%2Ftopic%2Fincome-averaging&sg=Kp%2BaXGDVXeDL5isy6Li%2BPrXNomTpQBjSUWNoiqvvigk%3D&tsp=1256171373536

Here is another attempt at my 2009 income,earnings and my best estimate of my 2009 tax liability ($26,209), let me know what else you need to provide me an estimate.

 

 

 

 

 

2009 income &

Earnings

 

So Sec from 9-12/09, Unemp 4-9/09

 

2009 earnings =

$40,356

So Sec + Pension + unemployment

 

Other '09 income:

$82,000

from 401K

 

$19728 Pension

 

$18,000

from Roth IRA - no tax

 

$15405 unemp

 

$122,356

Taxable income excludes Roth IRA

 

$5232 So Sec

 

$140,356

Gross Income in 2009

 

$40356 total

 

$100,000

$ needed for Mhome from IRA & 401K

 

 

 

 

 

Tax calc info

 

 

 

 

State @ 9% > 37K

$3,316

9% of 4 yr avg

 

State @ 6% < 37K

$4,431

6% of $37K

 

Fed tax @ 28% > 80K=

$0

28% of 4 yr avg > $80K

 

Fed tax @25% < 80K=

$18,462

25% of 4 yr avg < $80K

 

 

 

$26,209

2009 taxes to be paid in 2010

 

 

 

Do I need quarterly pmts in '10?

 

Posted by LEV 30 days and 2 hours ago.

Answer

As I reading the information on your reference - yes - it was income averaging in the past - The Tax Reform Act of 1986 repealed income averaging.

 

You may not use income averaging in your situation.

You may confirm that by calling the IRS at 1-800-829-1040

 

For 2010 tax liability - we need to consider only income you expect to receive in 2010.

And you may not postpone your 2009 tax liability.

 

Sorry if you expected a different answer.

 

30 days and 2 hours ago.

Reply

I do not need to know about 2010 tax, please stay with me on the 2009 tax, is 57,472 what I should expect to pay for 2009 tax, if as you say, I cannot use 3 year income averaging:

 

 

 

 

 

2009 income &

Earnings

 

So Sec from 9-12/09, Unemp 4-9/09

 

2009 earnings =

$40,356

So Sec + Pension + unemployment

 

Other '09 income:

$82,000

from 401K

 

$19728 Pension

 

$18,000

from Roth IRA - no tax

 

$15405 unemp

 

$122,356

Taxable income excludes Roth IRA

 

$5232 So Sec

 

$140,356

Gross Income in 2009

 

$40356 total

 

$100,000

$ needed for Mhome from IRA & 401K

 

 

 

 

 

Tax calc info

 

 

 

 

State tax @ 9% > 37K

$7,682

9% of 4 yr avg

 

State tax @ 6% < 37K

$7,341

6% of $37K

 

Fed tax @ 28% > 80K=

$11,860

28% of > $80K

 

Fed tax @25% < 80K=

$30,589

25% of < $80K

 

 

 

$57,472

2009 taxes to be paid in 2010

 

Posted by LEV 30 days and 2 hours ago.

Answer

As we estimated above your 2009 tax liability.

-- $82,000 - taxable distribution from 401K

-- $18,000 distribution from Roth IRA - not taxable

-- $19728 Pension - taxable

-- $15405 unemployment benefits - taxable

-- $20628 Social Security benefits 85% taxable or - $17534

Total taxable income $82000 +$19728 +$15405 +$17534 = $134667 - please verify if that correct.

 

Your deductions

-- standard deduction for 2009 - $5700

-- personal exemption for one person - $3650

taxable income - $125317

regular federal tax $28809

There will be California state income tax ~$11,000.

 

Let me know if you need any help.

 

30 days and 2 hours ago.

Reply

Total taxable income $82000 +$19728 +$15405 +$17534 = $134667 - please verify if that correct.

SoSec will be $5232 or at 85% $4447 for a total of $121,580

Please let me know the State and Fed tax estimate,

Thanks.

Posted by LEV 30 days and 1 hours ago.

Answer

based on out assumptions - estimated tax liability:

Total Adjusted gross income - $134667

regular federal tax $28809

California state income tax ~$11,000.

 

You wrote above - My So sec payment is $1744/mo, $20628/yr - that what I used in estimation...

now you are telling - SoSec will be $5232 or at 85% $4447 for a total of $121,580

that is confusing...

 

 

30 days and 1 hours ago.

Reply

Lev-

Sorry things are confused, but I've only been getting So Sec since 9/1/09. The monthly amount I get from Social Security is $1719. Four months then will be $6,876 or 85%= $5,845. Again, sorry for the confusion

Posted by LEV 30 days and 1 hours ago.

Answer

No problem - as long as we are able to clarify and move forward - we are good!

I recalculating your tax liability with corrected SS benefits.

 

As we estimated above your 2009 tax liability.

-- $82,000 - taxable distribution from 401K

-- $18,000 distribution from Roth IRA - not taxable

-- $19728 Pension - taxable

-- $15405 unemployment benefits - taxable

-- $6,876 Social Security benefits 85% taxable or - $5,845

Total taxable income $82000 +$19728 +$15405 +$17534 = $122978

 

Your deductions

-- standard deduction for 2009 - $5700

-- personal exemption for one person - $3650

taxable income - $113628

regular federal tax $25536

There will be California state income tax ~$9,950.

 

Please consider to pay all California tax liability in 2009 - and you will itemize and deduct the whole amount of California state income tax - by doing that - you may more than $1000 in federal taxes.

 

Let me know if you need any help.

30 days and 1 hours ago.

Reply

Thanks for all your help, I will pay CA '09 tax this year if possible.

Rhanks again.

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