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99 Pontiac Sunfire with P0141 and P0171 codes. Excessive black smoke and soot from the exhaust. Poor acceleration and rough idle. Troubles occured instantly, no prior symptoms. Has had small coolant leak (not external) over the past several months that required topping up the reservoir periodically.

Submitted: 99 days and 16 hours ago.
Category: Pontiac
Value: $15
Status: AWAITING CUSTOMER ACTION
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Posted by zzdaryl 99 days and 15 hours ago.

Answer

Below is a test that will need to be run, if there is no external leak the system will need to be pressurized and the leak found, if it is internal it could have caused the O2 sensors to go bad and setting these codes.

 

1. Disconnect the O2 sensor and verify the Brown wire is 12 volts key on and the Black is chassis ground.

2. Check the O2 fuse, in the inside fuse box, for being blown.

3. If power and ground are OK, then install a scanner to monitor O2 voltage.

4. After the car has sat overnight, turn the key on with the engine not running. If the heater is working, the O2 voltage should gradually go down from 450 mV to 200 mV or less in 2 minutes.

99 days and 15 hours ago.

Reply

OK, that makes sense to me. My "mechanic" is telling me that the fuel pump pressure is too high and flooding the engine. Wants to replace the pump for about $600. From what I have read, there is a pressure regulator on the fuel rail that should take care of high pressures. My gut feeling is that the o2 sensor(s) are the cause and not the fuel pump.

Does the p0171 code mean that the controller is ADDING more fuel to compensate for what it believes is a lean condition possibly caused by the o2 sensor input?

Posted by zzdaryl 99 days and 15 hours ago.

Answer

Yes the O2 sensor thinks it is lean which adds more fuel. And yes the regulator would keep the fuel pump from making to much pressure.

99 days and 15 hours ago.

Reply

Do I check the o2 sensor BEFORE or AFTER the catalytic converter? Or both? Do they operate the same?

Accepted Answer

I would check both.

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Expert: zzdaryl
Pos. Feedback: 100.0 %
Accepts: 
Answered: 8/15/2009

P&ontiac Technician

26 years experience

96 days and 11 hours ago.

Reply

Did some more testing and here are the results.

CHecked upstream O2 sensor (single wire)
- ignition ON, not running sensor voltage is 405mV.
- Start engine, 380mV at idle, engine hot. Runs good. Ran rpm up to 3000 for about 30 seconds then readings start to drop to 40, 60, 100 etc then rpms drop and engine runs rough with lots of black smoke out the exhaust. Reduce rpm to idle and readings return to 380mV. Engine smooths out.

Checked downstream O2 sensor (4 wire)
- ignition ON, not running sensor voltage is 430mV measured at the purple/wht wire in the engine compartment harness.
- Start engine, 830mV at idle, engine hot. Runs good. Ran rpm up to 3000 for about 30 seconds then engine rpms drop and starts running rough with black smoke out the exhaust. No real change in sensor voltage (850mV)

Please advise on where to proceed. Many thanks.

Posted by zzdaryl 96 days and 11 hours ago.

Answer

From those reading it looks like the downstream is not working and needs to be replaced, but you should be sure of the coolant leak first or the new O2 sensor will not last long.

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