JustAnswer > Tax
Ask A Question|Register|Login|Help
JustAnswer

Tax

Ask a Tax Question, Get an Answer ASAP!

Have your own Tax question?

8 Tax Professionals are Online Now
characters left:
Not a Tax Question?

Related Tax Topics:

  • Cpa
  • ,
  • Gov
  • ,
  • Irs
  • ,
  • Law
  • ,
  • Pay
  • ,
  • Tax
  • ,
  • Back
  • ,
  • Gain
  • ,
  • Form
  • ,
  • Long
Bookmark and Share

Question

I have a large property with a second home that is currently rented at 7,100/mo. My purchase price at the peak price in 11/05 was $975,000. Now it is only worth about $600,000. I pay all of the utilities for my tenants for a total of $12,000.00/year. Thus, my gross rental income is $7,100/mo-$1000.00 utilities=$6,100.00 when my interest only loan mortgage monthly payment has been $3,500/month and $1,000/mo of property tax for a total payment of $4500.00. Property insurance is paid at $1700.00/yr. Until now, I was making a good rental profit of $2600.00/mo, while still paying off the mortgage. But now, the mortgage company will now be raising my monthly payment to $6,500.00 including the real estate tax, despite a modified loan (The interest only loan has expired after 3 yrs). Thus, now my rental property will be a loss $7,100.00 rental income-$6,500 new mortgage=$600.00 profit-$1000.00 utilities= --$400.00, not to mention $10,000/yr in repairs. Is there a tax benefit to keep it

Submitted: 117 days and 23 hours ago.
Category: Tax
Value: $55
Status: CLOSED
+
Read More
Posted by Ed Johnson 117 days and 23 hours ago.

Answer

Dear XXXXXXXXX,

 

There is a tax benefit if you are not a professional realestate person.

 

The tax benefit is that you will be incurring passive losses.

 

Passive losses can be taken against your regular income to reduce your overall taxes.

 

NOTE: As a matter of course, in most realestate markets, the turn over time for rental properties to gain maximum tax and profit benefits is between 7 and 10 years. This allows 7 to 10 years to recover the principle on the home and to realize any gains from market movement.

 

I understandt he current market is depressed but it shows signs of recovery.

 

With this recapped mortgagte, in my opinion, to recover the costs with tax benefits, you would need to keep the property for at least 2 more years.

117 days and 23 hours ago.

Reply

<p>Thanks for your response Ed,</p><p> </p><p>Exactly what qualifies as passive losses?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I currently make an annual income of $290,000 as a healthcare provider (Physician Assistant in California), and my annual federal and state taxes are near $90,000 despite using other methods of tax savings.   Just for the moment, I wondering if my rental home can be a worthwhile tax shelter, yet the hassle of dealing with evasive tenants who cannot pay their rent, major repairs and 3 lengthy eviction court trials in the last 2 yrs is just gut wrenching as a landlord! I am the manager and would not consider giving and losing an additional monthly payment of 10% of the rent $710.00 to a property management. I would not be able to sell it without losing some, even in a short sell, and my thoughts are to let the property go into foreclosure and just walk away, unless there is a tax shelter worth keeping the property. The property is still in great need of up tp $50,000 in repairs, and I am just wondering if keeping the property will be benefit me in the long run. What is your opinion.</p>

Posted by Ed Johnson 117 days and 23 hours ago.

Answer

Dear XXXXXXXXX,

 

Thanks for the additional information.

 

The simplist way to explain passive losses is to say that if you are actively engaged in the management of the property, as you indicate you are; and as long as you are not a professional realestate person, which it sounds like you are not; and that this is your only rental property, then any losses you derive would be considered passive losses.

 

you shoudl be reporting the income from rents and all expenses including: depreciation, mortgage interest, taxes, etc on schedule E. (I assume you "intend" to make a profit, because you have been).

 

Because of your high income, you will not, under current law, take advantage of the passive losses during current tax years; but you can carry them forward, and take them in the year of sell.

 

(those eviction trial expeses should be captured as legal expenses on schedule E)

 

so generally, this would still be a good property to keep for two years at least.

 

The thing you introduce that changes this, is the need for 50K in repairs. I doubt you would capitalize those in two years.

 

If your realestate market is depressed, you may be lucky to recover 25 to 50 percent of the repairs, if that, since you are already talking short sell. You are likely not going to be able to raise rents substantially to recover the other 25,000 or more over a 5 year period.

 

It is sounding more and more like you may want to walk.

 

If you are willing to hang on for another 3 to 5 years, where the market is showing signs of recovery sometime in the next year, and with property prices then rising at a modest 3% per year, you may still hang on. BUT, in the end you can probably get more than 3% by investing your money elsewhere, without paying 50,000 to do it. Put that 50,000 in a 3.5% CD and you are already ahead of the game.

 

FYI: If you have not been capturing depreciation to date, you may want to go back and do that. The IRS will assume you have, even if you have not, and you will be expected to pay recapture tax of 25% on accumulated excess depreciation.

 

use this calculator to estimate your tax consequences:

 

http://www.realestate-calc.com/Real_Estate_Tax_Calculator_I2.asp

 

Use different scenarios. Remember, short sales and forclosures are sales under the IRS regulations. so you can still have a capital gain, even though there is not sufficient income to pay the loan off.

 

Also any forgiven debt becomes taxable income, at you regular rates.

 

You can get some of that reduced or eliminated, but only to the extent of your personal insolvency.

 

So part of your consideration, is are you able to AFFORD the taxes of 25% recapture of depreciation, 15% of capital gains if any, and income tax on forgiven debt at your marignal rate, which looks to be 30%.

 

 

 

 

 

117 days and 22 hours ago.

Reply

Thanks Ed,

I will gladly compensate you for your time. What you are saying is that if the home goes into foreclosure, I will be taxed for the difference of the sell price from my current mortgage debt? In this case, it would be an offset of $350,000.00. Can you please explain what you mean by:
Will you be able to AFFORD the taxes of 25% recapture of depreciation, 15% of capital gains if any, and income tax on forgiven debt at your marignal rate, which looks to be 30%.

Posted by Ed Johnson 117 days and 21 hours ago.

Answer

Dear XXXXXXXXX,

 

Sure. I will just throw some figure out there to give you an idea of what I am talking about.

 

1. the IRS requires all banking institutions to report forgiven debt on form 1099-C. IN this case, if your mortgage is short 350,000 after a foreclosure, then you would have cancellation debt income of 350,000. that is the amount of debt that was forgiven. The actual amount forgiven is normally determined after the bank sells the property after foreclosure. This 350,000 forgiven debt would be considered income and taxed at your marginal rate. Your marginal rate would be 30% at least. so this means your tax exposure, without adjusting it for insolvency would approximate 117,000 dollars.

 

2. Capital gains. Based on the information you provided, there would likely not be any capital gains.

 

3. recapture tax. this is based on depreciation. You do not indicate what you accumulated depreciation is, but lets assume your excess accumulated depreciation of the 900,000, including a devaluation adjustment to 600,000 would approximate, 300,000 dollars. (you need to figure your actual depreciation on this property and likely you will need a CPA to do it for you. This is because it looks like you can justify an adjustment downward in depreciable basis). Your recapture tax is approximately 25% of the 300,000 or: 75,000.

 

This means a very rough estimate of potential tax exposure as a result of foreclosure would approximate 192,000 dollars.

 

NOTE: marginal rates are your income tax bracket. You can view them here: http://taxes.about.com/od/2009taxes/qt/2009_tax_rates.htm

 

 

 

117 days and 21 hours ago.

Reply


Thanks Ed,

It sounds like foreclosure is not a simple solution as many have done, and I may get a kick in the rear as I walk away.

Will this estimated tax exposure be taxed all at once in one year, or will it be drained over time from me.

I really appreciate your opinions and factual tax advice. I feel that you have answered all of my questions. Any chance that you are located in California or other way that I can utilize you expertise other than on this fabulous website and tax service?

I will end here and wait for your last response.

XXXXXXXXX

Accepted Answer

Dear XXXXXXXXX,

 

The IRS will expect your tax payment at one time, but you can ask for installment payments.

 

Remember this is very ball park, and a lot of this depends on the final outcome of your taxes after the foreclosure.

 

For example: The final price the bank gets for the property at auction.

The actual amount of excess accumulated depreciation

The extent of your insolvency the day before the foreclosure and extent to which you can reduce the cancellation debt.

 

Also note: I see now that you are in California. California mortgages are non-recourse for single family dwellings, and up to four unit rentals. Non-recourse for California means that there is no cancellation debt income, even though a 1099-C may be issued.

 

The exception is if this was refinanced. After refinancing, unless the mortgage documents designate this as non-recourse, it mutates to recourse debt, and cancellation debt income is possible.

 

To reduce or eliminate cancellation debt income please see the following form: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f982.pdf

 

I appreciate your comments and feedback. Unfortunately we are not allowed to have a personal contact with you outside this venue.

 

I can refer you to collegues but none of my network are located in California.

Picture
Expert: Ed Johnson
Pos. Feedback: 99.2 %
Accepts: 
Answered: 7/28/2009

Tax Preparer

GPHR Cert; U.S. Treasury Tax Advocacy Panel appointee

+
Read More

Related Tax Questions

  • how many children can you claim on your w-2 ...
  • I am a real estate licensee who specializes in residential ....
  • I have a 31 year old that has been living with me for 2 ...
  • Can a happily married couple file seperate with 2 kids and ....
  • how much do you have to make to be sble to file your taxes ....
  • Can I get my W-2's online? ...
  • i am a property manager & a leasing agent. What can I ...
  • what is cafe 125 on my w-2? ...



Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.
Question List | Become an Expert | Terms of Service | Security & Privacy | About Us
© 2003-2009 JustAnswer Corp.