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Question

I have a 1989 Porsche turbo. The problem is the engine will cut off at any time and will take about 5-10 minutes of resting before I can start it again. I've had the computer reset and this worked for a while, but the problem returned. Both fuel pumps will stop right after the tach starts to go crazy.

Submitted: 120 days and 4 hours ago.
Category: Car
Value: $28
Status: CLOSED
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Optional Information

Year: 1989
Make: Porsche
Model: 930 turbo
Engine: 3.3

Already Tried:
reset computer. changed relays. replaced condenser and distrubter. replaced fuel pumps. had complete engine overhall

Posted by rpmdiag 120 days and 4 hours ago.

Answer

Hi XXXXXXX,

 

At the point when it won't restart, is the point when the testing needs to be done. First, check for a strong blue spark at the plugs when cranking the engine. If that's okay, then try some starting fluid in the throttle body to see if it tries to start. if it tries, then we have to test the pressure and volume of the pump. Once we discover what's missing when it won't start, that will guide us to a possible CRANK sensor, ignition module, fuel system malfunction etc.

 

Thanks for your question and positive feedback,

 

Ron

120 days and 4 hours ago.

Reply

This is not possible because it cuts out while I'm driving and after turning off ignition then on it will restart and then no problem for several hours or days.

Posted by rpmdiag 120 days and 4 hours ago.

Answer

Okay, I didn't know anout the cutting out, just the cutting off, which does make a difference. The module would definately be on top of my list of testing with a heat gun while monitoring the ignition spark and pump voltage with a scope. That would be a conclusive test. BTDT!

 

Thanks again,

 

Ron

120 days and 4 hours ago.

Reply

What I mean by cutting out is: while I'm driving (any gear) the tack will bounce back and forth and then the engine will stop. Most times I'll pull over and the car will restart. Sometimes I have to wait a few minutes then the car will start. After that I'm fine. Once I go to the mechnic there is nothing they can do because the engine is running fine with out any indications on the computer of malfunctions

Posted by rpmdiag 120 days and 4 hours ago.

Answer

I totally understand what you are saying, and I can totally diagnose that just the way I mentioned with a heat gun on the module, FORCING it to break down for me the way it normally breaks down for you. Very easy and common test to do.

 

Thanks again for your support,

 

Ron

120 days and 4 hours ago.

Reply

Which module are you talking about and do I need to carry a heat gun with me to use when the car breaks down? If you're assuming it's the module, then I should just replace the module. I've already replaces the 2 relays for the fuel pumps. Or are the the modules your talking about.

Posted by rpmdiag 120 days and 3 hours ago.

Answer

I'm talking about the ICM, Ignition Control Module. The heat gun is for the testing that needs to be done while it's running and the meters hooked up to it while heating up the module and watching the readings to confirm that it's bad. It already gets hot and stalls on you, now we need to get it to heppen for the mechanic. He has to STRESS TEST it if that makes more sense. And yes, I can still help you after you have "accepted" too.

 

Thanks again,

 

Ron

120 days and 3 hours ago.

Reply

The engine can cut off 5 minutes after starting or not at all. The machnic had it running for several hours on the computer without any malfunctions indicated. No over heating. There seams to be a power surge than the fuel pumps shut off. If the ICM is malfunctioning it should happen all the time not randomly. What would cause the ICM to act this way.

Posted by rpmdiag 120 days and 3 hours ago.

Answer

You're TOTALLY missing what I'm saying, please re-read my posts. I've given you a great deal of very vaulable information so far. You're wrong about your "randomly" concept too!

120 days and 3 hours ago.

Reply

You're not understanding the first question. When I start the car and drive down my street, before I get to the end of the block the engine will stop. Most times I just restart. Some times I have to wait a few minutes. Other times I can drive all day without any problems. Some days while I'm on the highway while I'm in 4th or 5th gear and driving at a steady speed the engine will stop. This to me is random.

Posted by rpmdiag 120 days and 3 hours ago.

Answer

It's not me that's not understanding! You already discovered that your way hasn't worked with all the parts you tossed on it. I know the components that cause this WHEN THEY GET HOT, so they require testing while MAKING THEM HOT, such as DUPLICATING how you get it hot while driving it. Sorry that it all doesn't make sense to you, but what you do for a living may not make sense to me either. We're in the testing stages, one component at a time,

 

 

120 days and 3 hours ago.

Reply

This was replaced by Porcshe in Florida when I first had the problem. So if this is the problem "WHAT IS MAKING IT GET HOT" and how can this be duplicated when the car is not being driven. It does not shut off all the time. II've had it to two Porcshe dealers. Sometime day or weeks without incident

Posted by rpmdiag 120 days and 3 hours ago.

Info Request

I OPTED OUT of this question

Posted by Jan Andersson 120 days and 3 hours ago.

Answer

Hi,

When you said you have replaced relays, does that include the DME relay under the driver's seat, right next to the control unit? Those are known to have intermittent problems and they control the fuel pump circuit. The soldered connections inside the relay are unreliable.

Also the crank reference sensor and position sensor could be going bad. There is a procedure for testing them through backprobing the ECM multi-pin connector, I don't have the instructions with me now to give details, sorry.

120 days and 2 hours ago.

Reply

This is a 1989 911/930 Turbo. Checking the owners manual the Turbo's ignition system is a CAPACTIVE DISCHARGE SYSTEM (CDI) WITH BREAKERLESS DISTRIBUTER, which was replaced. The 911 Carrera has a (DME)

Posted by Jan Andersson 120 days and 2 hours ago.

Answer


Oops, my bad. The same year non-turbos had the DME relay (and problem).

Back to suspecting the ignition control unit or ECM.

120 days and 2 hours ago.

Reply

As stated this was replaced. Previous to this the old relays would heat up after 20 minutes of driving and the engine will quit. I would replace with another set and no problem. I bought new ones and problem disappeared for a while. Now when the engine shuts off I check the relays and they are cool. Usually the tack will jump up & down just before the engine quits.

Posted by Jan Andersson 120 days and 2 hours ago.

Answer

the tach gets it's signal from the ignition control box...
Without my books with me, this is as far as I can go guessing at what else it could be, I'm sorry I can't be of any more help. It's hard enough to diagnose remotely without getting my hands and tools on the car :)

120 days and 2 hours ago.

Reply

2 Porsche dealers couldn't find the problem. Dealers are notorious for changing everything. The only part I didn't change is my gradmothers plastic seat covers.

Posted by Jan Andersson 120 days and 2 hours ago.

Answer

I'll try to look up more info at work next week when I get to my books, but until I find something else I will opt out and give another expert a chance to reply if they can think of something.

Posted by Anthony 120 days and 1 hours ago.

Info Request

Hello!

 

Are you sure the CDI box was changed if so when?

120 days and 1 hours ago.

Reply

About 6 months ago or less than 1000 miles. I very rarely get on the highway with the car because of this problem, also very rarely use it.

Posted by Anthony 120 days and 1 hours ago.

Info Request

Ok, so this vehicle runs normal then out of the blue the tach goes crazy and the engine stops, right?

120 days and 1 hours ago.

Reply

CORRECT

Posted by Anthony 120 days and 1 hours ago.

Info Request

When this happens, how long does it take to get it running?

120 days and 1 hours ago.

Reply

Most times right away. Sometimes I have to wait a few minutes.

Posted by Anthony 120 days and 1 hours ago.

Info Request

Ok, when this happens, the fuel system shuts down?

120 days and 1 hours ago.

Reply

Must be because I'm driving normally and the engine just quits. I know there are dual fuel pumps so it must be something shuting off the fuel supply

Posted by Anthony 120 days and 1 hours ago.

Info Request

Are you aware that the distributor is a totally seprate part and the CDI box is mounted on the left side of the engine compartment? Do you still have the repair bill from Porsche stationg that the distributor AND CDI box are listed as two seprate parts and were definately changed?

120 days and 1 hours ago.

Reply

I'm not sure of this. I'll have to check on monday. They are closed now.

Posted by Anthony 120 days and 1 hours ago.

Answer

Ok, I'm very familiar with this system and I'm just letting you know that the distributor signals the CDI Box, that in turn signals the computer, tach on the same wire and the ignition coil is on another. If the Distributor is ok which i think it is because it wont break intermittently then the CDI box is the culprit. Also if you want to be absolutely sure then you are going to have to have the tach wire side of the ign circuits rewired because you have an itermittent short. Either the wiring between the CDI box and the DME and tach or the CDI box is whats causing your problem in all likeliness.

120 days and 1 hours ago.

Reply

I do know the ignation coil was changed.

Accepted Answer

Ok, the coil wouldnt do this. See the PDF file below for a picture of the CDI box.

 

CLICK HERE FOR PDF FILE DOWNLOAD

Picture
Expert: Anthony
Pos. Feedback: 96.7 %
Accepts: 
Answered: 7/25/2009

ASE Certified Technician

ASE Master Automobile Technician since 2000 17 Years + Exp.

119 days and 21 hours ago.

Reply

SOUNDS LIKE THE BEST IDEA. THANKS

 

Posted by Anthony 119 days and 21 hours ago.

Info Request

YOu got it and thank you. I hope it goes smooth for you.

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