JustAnswer > Chevy
Ask A Question|Register|Login|Help
JustAnswer

Chevrolet

Ask a Chevy Question, Get an Answer ASAP!

Have your own Chevy question?

27 Chevy Mechanics are Online Now
characters left:
Not a Chevy Question?
Bookmark and Share

Question

Hello: 88 S10 V6 4.3, it was working fine until suddently it quit, fuel ok to injectors, injectors are not firing, it seems that get no power, measured volts at connectors, ignition sw on, no volts, while cranking no volts either. No error code from ECM, only code 12 for diagn..tics. What could be the problem, any help is highly appreciated. Tks, AC.

Submitted: 383 days and 22 hours ago.
Category: Chevy
Value: $50
Status: AWAITING EXPERT REPLY
+
Read More

Optional Information

1988 Chevrolet S10 V6 4.3

Already Tried:
Fuel pump running ok, inline fuel filter replaced w/ new. Fuel pressure verified to TBI manifold supply tubing connector. Checked voltage to injectors elec connector while ignition sw at ON position, then while craking, both cases no volts for injectors. Jumped A-B on ECM for diagnostics, no error code displayed, just code 12 cycling longer than 3x. Checked for spark at plugs, sparks ok as engine cranks. Is short, no fuel from injectors, seems they are not firing. How should I proceed now? Tks,

Posted by Tech Xpert 383 days and 22 hours ago.

Info Request

Hi AC,

 

Is this 4WD?

 

Is this automatic?

 

Thanks,

Vinny

383 days and 22 hours ago.

Reply

Hello Vinny:

 

Yes, 4WD, automatic

 

Posted by Tech Xpert 383 days and 22 hours ago.

Info Request

Hook the test light to the positive battery terminal and while cranking, check to see if you get a flashing test light to either prong at an injector plug.

 

Let me know what you find.

 

Thanks,

Vinny

383 days and 21 hours ago.

Reply

Vinny:

 

Test done as req'd. Test light did not flash on neither injector elec connectors while cracking the engine. Before turning ignition sw to ON position test light was ON for one each of the connectors plug, it went off at as sw was moved to crank position.

 

More test to do?

 

Tks,

 

Posted by Tech Xpert 383 days and 6 hours ago.

Answer

I will look up the wiring circuit and get back to you on what to test next.

 

Thanks,

Vinny

383 days and 3 hours ago.

Reply

Hello Vinny:

 

Thank you, I will be waiting for your advice...

Posted by Tech Xpert 383 days and 2 hours ago.

Answer

I am attaching the wiring diagram below. The ignition switch provides voltage to the ECM 1 fuse that powers both injectors. (shown at the top of the diagram). Check this fuse first (it is at the bottom of the fuse box under the dash second from the left) and make sure you have voltage at both sides. This circuit is more than likely your problem because you say that you do not have voltage at the injectors and this diagram shows that you should.

 

graphic
View Full Image

383 days ago.

Reply

Venny:

 

Tested as follows. All fuse checked ok with test light ON. specially ECM 1. Also while cracking I got test light ON for both sides on this ECM 1 fuse. I double checked again at the injectors elec connectors plug with test light on positive battery terminal and other end at the injectors plug (both connectors plugs) still no test light.

 

What can I test next?

 

Tks

Posted by Tech Xpert 382 days and 23 hours ago.

Answer

Well it appears that the wire that goes from the ECM1 fuse to the fuel injectors is broken somewhere or maybe a plug or connector is having a problem. Follow the wiring harness starting from the injectors to where it disappears into the harness and see if you notice any connection problems.

 

If nothing, then you can get a 10amp inline fuse and connect it to the positive battery and connect the other side to the red and white wires that go to the injectors. This should let it start.

 

Let me know how you make out.

 

Thanks,

Vinny

 

Thanks,

Vinny

 

382 days and 22 hours ago.

Reply

Hello Vinny:

 

I probably misunderstood some instrucions from you, my excuses.

 

I just did further tests...

 

As I just lamp tested ok fuse ECM 1 to chassis, then with injector elec connector removed form injectors I did the same thing on wires 481(red) and 482(wht) on drawing to chassis while ignition sw was ON and then on cranking position I got lamp ON for both wires. That tells me the wires are good up to those points.

 

Then I measured volts on injector plugs point A to B with a voltmeter. Wires 481(red, point A) to 467(blu, point B) and 482(wht) to 468(grn) max volts between them was about 2.5vdc while the ignition sw was ON or at cranking position.

 

Does this tells you anything? Pls advice...

Posted by Tech Xpert 382 days and 22 hours ago.

Answer

Ok so you have voltage to the positive side of the injectors. That means that you are missing the pulse which is the momentary ground that causes the injector to activate. This pulse signal comes from the distributor and goes into the computer. Being that you have spark, tells us that the distributor is good.

This indicates that the ECM (engine control module) or the computer is not providing the signal First check the grounds to the computer. Terminal A12 and D1 both Black/White should be ground. If they are good, a typical problem is that the "quad drivers" go bad and they generally go bad if the fuel injector resistance is too low.

 

You would need to replace the ECM and check the fuel injector resistance. If you take an ohm meter and test the fuel injector with the wires disconnected, the reading should be from 1.16 ohms to 1.36 ohms. If they are out of range, replace them.

 

Also check that the ESC module terminal 486 (D shown on the wiring diagram) has a good ground too.

 

Let me know what you find.

 

Thanks,

Vinny

Posted by Tech Xpert 382 days and 22 hours ago.

Answer

While your checking wires at the computer, check terminals D15 and D16 as shown on the diagram and use an ohm meter to verify that the wires have continuity from the injectors all the way to the computer and you might want to do the same test at these two terminals that you did to check the injectors for the ground pulse.

378 days and 6 hours ago.

Reply

Hi Vinny, its been a couple of days!

 

I did all tests that you have asked me to do.

 

On ECM checked A12 and D1 to ground, found both good ground.

 

Checked injectors resistance wire disconnected, found withing range about 1.2 ohms for each one.

 

On ESC module term (486) D also found good ground.

 

On ECM D16 and D14 checked continuity on wires from computer to the injectors, found both good. D15 and C15 are not used, sockets are empty on the plug.

 

With plug connected to computer cranked the engine and checked with test light between positive battery terminal to D16 and D14, no test light pulses.

 

Last test I did was to jump together D16 and D14 with a piece of wire and took the other end of the wire to a clean spot on the chassis and touched it on/off as fast as could while cranking the engine. Engine started and it kept running for as long as I kept doing the chassis on/off action with this wire. I did this test twice, engine ran on both tests.

 

Finally, I jumped A-B on the ALDL to check for any message from the ECM. Only code was 12 (it cycled for more than 4x).

 

What do you suggest next? If it is replacing the ECM, how is the procedure to replace it? And if you recommend any online autoparts. I already checked locally around here and no autoparts have it. By the way, I live in Aruba, its an island near the cost of Venezuela.

 

Thank you Vinny.

 

Albert

 

 

 

 

376 days and 21 hours ago.

Reply

Relist: I still need help.

372 days and 20 hours ago.

Reply

Relist: I still need help.

Posted by Tech Xpert 372 days ago.

Answer

Hi, Sorry, I was out of town and I just got back. Let me review this and I will give you an answer later tonight.

 

Thanks,

Vinny

371 days and 4 hours ago.

Reply

Hello Vinny:

 

I am waiting your advice how to proceed.

 

 

Thanks,

 

370 days and 1 hours ago.

Reply

Relist: I still need help.

368 days and 23 hours ago.

Reply

Relist: I still need help.

366 days ago.

Reply

Relist: No answer yet.

361 days and 21 hours ago.

Reply

Relist: No answer yet.

349 days and 22 hours ago.

Reply

Relist: I still need help. Hello Vinny: I finally have received a reman'd ECM. I moved the chips from the old to the new ECM and installed it as per installation instructions. But, I still have the same conditions, injectors are still NOT firing... Pls can you provide more troubleshooting instructions... Tks.

347 days and 22 hours ago.

Reply

Hello Vinny:

 

Pls can you answer asap?

 

Thank you.

Posted by michael 347 days and 21 hours ago.

Answer

hello... i'm another expert with Just Answer. i know you've done alot of testing here... but if you could give me a list of any parts replaced and whether they were new or used... also, if there is ANY type of theft system/alarm installed on this vehicle? lastly, was there any work done to this vehicle prior to this issue happening? thank you for getting me this info.

 

also, there is a "check" i'd like you to perform... if possible. take some brake clean/carb clean and spray a small amount into the TBI. crank the engine and see if it starts-runs-then stalls. please reply with findings... thanks again.



Edited by michael on 12/9/2008 at 2:46 AM

346 days and 21 hours ago.

Reply

Hello Dear Sir:

 

Parts or work done on vehicule prior to this issue, none.

Parts replaced after this issue: only inline gas filter and ECM (remanufactured).

No theft/alarm system installed.

 

"checked" as requested. engine starts-runs-stalls. repeated four times, ok.

 

Pls can you advice further checks?

 

Tks,

AC

345 days ago.

Reply

Relist: No answer yet.

Posted by Billy 344 days and 23 hours ago.

Info Request

hello and welcome to just answer.

My name is Billy and I would be expert #3 : )
i will try to help you with this problem.
have you checked for spark already?

best regards,
Billy

344 days and 22 hours ago.

Reply

Hello dear Sir:

 

Yes i did checked for sparks, ok.

 

What I'm not getting are fuel infectors firing. Checked fuse labeled ECM-1 and positive volts to injectors is present while cranking. The only thing that seems missing is the ECM not pulsing the momenary ground to complete the loop and fire the infectors. I already checked ECM ground wires and injectors wires continuity from end to end as per attached diagram sent by Expert #1. He advised to replace ECM and to check injectors resistance which I found to be about 1.2 ohms which is within range as he explained.

 

If I complete the loop from fuse ECM-1 through injectors then to D14/16 to ground then i get the injectors to fire manually, even start and keep the engine running for a while as if I keep pulsing fast enough to ground.

 

I replaced the ECM with a remanufactured one, moved the chips from the original to the new, installed it as per recommendations, but, still have the same problem, injectors are Not firing through the ECM module.

 

I appreciate all the help that I could get.

 

Many thanks,

 

AC

 

 

Accepted Answer

hello again,

if you do have spark then we know that the pick-up inside the distributor is working, however the "crank" signal for the ECM/injectors is also coming out from the distributor, from the pick-up coil through the ignition module to the ECM.
if the ignition module (not the pick-up coil) inside the distributor is faulty the ECM will not know that the engine is turning and therefore will not fire the injectors.
what you will need to do is to inspect ALL power and ground inputs to the ECM (all of it)
then test continuity from the four wire connector on the ignition module to the ECM connections D4,B5,D5,B3 as per the schematics you already have and if all ok then I would replace the ignition module and see what happens.
Just as a quick note, if you like you can replaced the pick-up coil inside the distributor as well, you know just in case : )
It generates the low a/c voltage that is amplified by the module to be sent to the ECM that the engine is turning.

please let me know how it went.

Billy

Picture
Expert: Billy
Pos. Feedback: 99.2 %
Accepts: 
Answered: 12/12/2008

Chevrolet tecnician

Over 25 years experience,GM grand master for 8 years,certified smog and government safety inspector

Posted by Billy 338 days ago.

Info Request

hello again,

did you replaced the ignition module and pick-up?
did that work for you to solve the problem?

Best regards,
Billy

328 days and 20 hours ago.

Reply

Hello dear Sir Billy:

 

Yes I did replace the ignition module and pick-up and the problem was solved.The damage was visible on the pick-up coil and I just replaced both of them at the same time as per your advice.

 

You guided me exactly to where the problem was. You are really good at what you do.

 

I want to thank you Billy for your smart advice that took me straight to where the problem was, also thank you for your followup...

 

I also want to thanks Vinny for the initial help he gave me.

 

Regards and Happy New Year 2009,

Albert

Aruba, Netherland Antilles.

+
Read More

Related Chevy Questions

  • I have a 2004 GMC 2500 HD 6.6L Turbo diesel with ...
  • I''m getting P0440 DTC on an 01 Cav. 2.2. I
  • what do the codes 101, 131 and 151 mean? we thought we had ....
  • Transmission
  • ENGINE CRANKS BUT WILL NOT START
  • I have a 305 small block and my carburator is choking out .....
  • If my truck is not changing gears what could the problem be
  • what kind of pipe to connect the two hoses



Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.
Question List | Become an Expert | Terms of Service | Security & Privacy | About Us
© 2003-2009 JustAnswer Corp.