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Question

My goldfish is lethargic and sitting at the bottom of the tank and not eating. It sometimes flashes about and then sits motionless at the bottom. He had icks this week and I treated him and the white crystals are gone but he''s not getting any better in terms of his behavior and not eating still. I''m really worried please tell me what you think I can do

Submitted: 712 days and 10 hours ago.
Category: Pet
Value: $9
Status: CLOSED
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Optional Information

Optional Information:
Breed: Goldfish

Already Tried:
Ick clear tablets in the water

Posted by TROPICAL FISH AFICIONADO 712 days and 10 hours ago.

Info Request

How long has the tank been up and running with fish in it?

How big, in gallons, is the tank?

How many fish are in the tank?

712 days and 10 hours ago.

Reply

Tank up and running since December 2007.

Tank is 10 gallon. But Since this evening I moved fish to a 1 gallon bowl with fresh distilled water.

One fish in tank/bowl.

Accepted Answer

Thanks for the information.

From the symptoms you describe it sounds as if the fish is suffering from "ammonia burn" as can be seen by his flashing movements.

Ammonia is caused by fish waste and the only way to rid a tank of it is by regular partial water changes.

By moving the fish to a seperate bowl with fresh water you greatly helped the fish and eliminated the ammonia factor. Note that there's no need to go to the extent and expense of using distilled
water as dechlorinated tap water is perfectly ok to use.

Now what I recommend you do is add 1/2 teaspoon of aquarium salt or any NON-iodized salt to the water. Once that's done begin to treat with a medicine called Pimafix, see link below. The combination of the Pimafix and the salt will help alleviate some of the trauma the fish has been through.

It's important at this point to maintain excellent water quality so it would be a good idea to change the water in the bowl every other day making sure to use same temperature water that is to say the new water should be the same as the old water so as to avoid shocking the fish.

The frequent water changes will also rid the water of any remaining Ick parasites and if need be you can continue to use the Ick medicine if the fish still shows signs of infection. If you need to use the Ick tablets again then discontinue the use of Pimafix but keep up with the water changes.

If you plan to put the fish back in the 10 gallon tank it will need to be thouroughly cleaned with vinegar and completely rinsed so as to remove any traces of vinegar.

Let me know if you plan on restarting the 10 gallon as I have additional information for you.

As for feeding the fish, feed it only once a day and only a small pinch of food. When it regains its appetite you can feed twice a day.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=11269

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Expert: TROPICAL FISH AFICIONADO
Pos. Feedback: 99.5 %
Accepts: 1630
Answered: 4/5/2008

YOUR TROPICAL FISH RESOURCE

OVER 20 YEARS EXPERIENCE W/TROPICAL FISH---BREEDING, MAINTAINING, CURING

712 days and 9 hours ago.

Reply

I do intend to put the fish back into the 10 gallon tank as soon as i clean the tank tomorrow. Please give me more details. Thanks very much for your reply.

Posted by TROPICAL FISH AFICIONADO 712 days and 9 hours ago.

Answer

Ok that's good to know.

When you start up the 10 gallon tank with new/fresh water and the fish it will begin to cycle. Listed below is a link that will explain cycling in detail and I strongly urge you to read it and understand it as it's the single most important piece of information a fishkeeper should know.

Now I'd like to make a recommendation. If possible try and put a new fish in the tank and leave the sick goldfish in the bowl. My reasoning for this is that the ill fish might not be able to handle the cycling process and therefore become
sick once again.

What happens when a tank cycles is basically this:

Fish produce ammonia===toxic

After a couple of weeks ammonia is eaten by bacteria called nitrites===also toxic

After a couple of weeks nitrites are eaten by a bacteria called nitrates===not toxic @low levels and removed via partial water changes.

This whole process takes about 6-8 weeks and if not handled properly will kill fish.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling.htm

.

712 days and 9 hours ago.

Reply

I need clarification please ... does this mean that I have to wait for six weeks before returning the fish to the 10 gal tank? I have him in a 1 gal bowl now and he's fairly big ... about 4 inches long X 1 1/4 inch wide, possibly bigger and i feel he's going to be cramped. i also moved the water filter from the tank and put it on the bowl so the water can circulate and create more oxygen. I hope this didn't transfer any of the bacteria. I also read that he might be suffering from fluke. Could this be the case? Also, after i put the salt in the water he started thrashing about and rubbing against the filter tubing. Any more advice?

Posted by TROPICAL FISH AFICIONADO 712 days and 9 hours ago.

Info Request

Hi again.

I'm working on a detailed answer for you so I'll be with you shortly. Just wanted to let you know I didn't forget about you.

712 days and 9 hours ago.

Reply

Thanks, It's 3:00 a.m and I know you must be as tired and sleepy as I am so, I'm sorry for the many questions. Hopefully, I won't have anymore questions after this, as I do need to go to bed. :)

Posted by TROPICAL FISH AFICIONADO 712 days and 9 hours ago.

Answer

I'll answer your questions in the order you gave.

In order for the tank to cycle there needs to be a fish in it so that ammonia can be produced thus the cycle will begin.

I certainly understand your concerns about the fish being cramped so you have two options, 1) provide him with a bigger bowl to recuperate in or 2) you could put him back in the 10 gallon but remember this could be a little risky as he's already been through a lot and might not handle the cycling process well.

Yes, most probably the Ick parasite was transferred to the bowl by the filter but if you continue to medicate the fish it should resolve the problem.

As for the fish having Flukes, from your description it didn't seem so but we'll touch upon that tommorrow.

As for the fish's reaction to the salt, he apparently isn't handling the dosage well so take 1/2 the water out of bowl and replace it with fresh water and not adding any salt. I hope you used aquarium salt and not table salt?

I got your recent message and we'll continue tommorrow. Have a good night and you can continue writing on this same posting tommorrow so that we won't lose track of where we were.

Ric


.

712 days and 8 hours ago.

Reply

Ok Ric ... we'll continue tomorrow. However, I did not use aquarium salt, but unionized sea salt which is what I use for cooking ... was that bad? That's all I had. I will replace half the water and see how that goes. Thanks ... I guess we'll continue tomorrow and don't worry I will certainly accept your answer when I'm satisfied that my questions are answered and you've done a great job so far. Thanks again and talk tomorrow.

Posted by TROPICAL FISH AFICIONADO 712 days and 8 hours ago.

Info Request

Any NON-iodized salt is ok.

Speak to you tommorrow/later.

Have a good night.

712 days and 8 hours ago.

Reply

Good night and thanks again.

711 days and 23 hours ago.

Reply

Good Morning Ric,
Hope you had a good night's rest. Well, the fish is still not eating this morning and still seems restless and agitated. He has developed about four or five obvious digs in his side, like some scales have been dug out. Please tell me more about the cleaning of the 10 gal tank etc. and what I need to do right now to save my fish life. I'm a little confused about the cycle system. How is it that this system is not applicable to the new bowl he's in? All I did was put fresh distilled water, (which is what he was in when I first got him by the way so I just kept him in it to be safe)and dropped him in. So no ammonia has built up yet. My confusion is: Why can I not just clean the tank and put him back in the fresh water without fear of him getting sick from lack of ammonia and nitrate? Sorry if I sound confused but I'm trying to simplify the process in my mind and see the differences. Thanks again.

Posted by TROPICAL FISH AFICIONADO 711 days and 23 hours ago.

Answer

Good morning to you.

What I'll do is start off by clarifying the cycling process. I know, it does get a bit confusing.

Fish waste and decaying uneaten food cause ammonia to form, usually after 2-4 days. Now at this point there are two ways to deal with it:

1) Change all or most of the water in the tank. This will eliminate the ammonia. The large or complete water changes will need to be repeated every 2-4 days so as to not let ammonia rise. The tank water will not cycle if the above is done.

2) Let the ammonia form, test the water to make sure it does not reach a high level and do a smaller partial water change to keep the ammonia level in check. This will let the cycling process continue.

Now the same ammonia that would form in the 10 gallon tank will also form in the bowl except quicker as it's a smaller volume of water.

If you decide to let the tank cycle then you must understand that the fish will suffer a bit as ammonia and it's subsequent byproduct nitrite are harmful and sometimes lethal to fish which is why I felt it might not be a good idea to let your goldfish be used to cycle a tank as he might not be able to withstand it having already been sick.

To clean the 10 gallon tank use some paper towels soaked in water and vinegar or you could use bleach instead of vinegar. Clean the whole tank by wiping the inside and outside of it with the prior mentioned solution. Rinse the tank thoroughly and let dry for 24 hours. This cleaning process will eliminate any residual
disease.

Ok now on to the fish. It's immune system has apparently lowered thus making it highly susceptible to disease. The fish's symptoms indicate a bacterial infection so what I recommend you do is change the water in the bowl using tap water that has been treated with a dechlorinator. Make sure there is not a difference in water temperature between the old water and new water. Try and add a pinch of aquarium salt. Only aquarium salt should be used.
It's not absolutely necessary to use aquarium salt but it might be helpful.

Once the above has been done begin to treat the fish with a medicine called Maracyn, see link below or a medicine called Melafix, see link below. Just follow the directions on the product label for usage.

Hope this clarifies things if not just let me know.

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.

711 days and 22 hours ago.

Reply

Ok I think I'm getting the idea. So in summary tell me if I'm clear:
1. I should keep the fish in the bowl
2. Clean the 10 gal tank as instructed (Wash tank gravel and artificial plants also with solution?)
3. Wait for big tank to cycle (tell me how long to wait?)
4. Get another fish to help cycle tank (does it have to be another goldfish or can any fish live with the goldfish when I put him back?)
5. Change water in fish bowl and make sure temp is same as old water (how do I check temp. tell me what to get I'm new to fish keeping?)
6. Add aquarium salt to fish bowl
6. Get suggested meds (So don't bother with Pimafix as first instructed?)
7. Lastly, when I treat tap water do I have to wait for a period of time B4 putting fish in?
Thanks again, I really appreciate your assistance as I'm very new to all this and I love my fish so much I can't bear to lose him/her (not sure of gender) LOL..

Posted by TROPICAL FISH AFICIONADO 711 days and 22 hours ago.

Answer

I'll answer/comment on your questions in the order
you gave them:

1) It would be better to keep the goldfish seperated in the bowl if you decide to cycle the 10 gallon but as your the fishkeeper the choice is yours. Though as I mentioned earlier he might not be able to handle the cycle. Note: if you decide not to cycle and are willing to do twice weekly 50-100% water changes then you can put the fish in the 10 gallon.

2) Yes, clean all the aquarium equipment so as to kill off any disease that might remain.

3) If you decide to cycle then definitely wait for it to complete before adding the goldfish.
The cycle could take anywhere from 6-8 weeks (I know it's a long time but you can't rush Mother Nature).

4) Any fish can be used to cycle a tank although some are preferable over others. You could use 2 zebra fish, see link below for an image.

5) To check water temperature a floating thermometer can be used, see link below for an example.

6) Helpful but not absolutely necessary, the pinch of aquarium salt although in the cycling tank 2 teaspoons is recommended.

6a) Yes, matter of fact to make things easier use the Melafix as the fish is displaying external sores. I changed the medicine from the original recommendation because the fish's symptoms have changed.

7) After a dechlorinator is used, fish can be put into the water right away. Listed below is a link to a commonly found tap water treatment.

Keep in mind that it's very important to test the water when the tank is cycling and even thereafter but not as frequently. Listed below is a link that will show you a product--easy to use test strips.

All the above mentioned products and fish can be found at most major pet shops i.e. PetSmart, Petco, etc. etc.

On a final note, seriously think over if you want to cycle the tank. It's obviously not mandatory but it will eliminate the need for twice weekly major water changes.

Good luck on whatever you decide!

http://users.ugent.be/~kwautier/VMDB/images/zebravis.jpg

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