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john aka eaut
john aka eaut, The Car Guy
Category: Pontiac
Satisfied Customers: 15761
Experience:  15 years as a auto tech
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I'm having the p0013 and p0014 codes on a Pontiac G5 2009

Customer Question

I'm Robb and I'm having the p0013 and p0014 codes on a Pontiac G5 2009
JA: Thanks. Can you give me any more details about your issue?
Customer: not really its my gf's car. no performance issues, Idont think.
JA: OK got it. Last thing — Pontiac Mechanics generally expect a deposit of about $18 to help with your type of question (you only pay if satisfied). Now I'm going to take you to a page to place a secure deposit with JustAnswer. Don't worry, this chat is saved. After that, we will finish helping you.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Pontiac
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

which motor? 4 cyl echo tech?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
that's correct
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

DTC P0013

  • Exhaust Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator Solenoid Control Circuit
  • DTC P0014

  • Exhaust Camshaft Position (CMP) System Performance
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

have you replaced the cam sensor yet?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No haven't replaced anything yet. I got all of that info I just have no idea where they are located.
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

ok ill post diagrams give me a minute

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I've seen several articles posted like this one
My check engine light came on and these were the codes that it threw. From what I understand this has to do with the camshaft position sensor.Autozone felt that it may be the camshaft position sensors or oil. I replaced both camshaft position sensors, and changed the oil, reset the battery.Performance returned, drove 100 miles without turning the car off, when I turned it back on again, in a few seconds the light came back on and threw the same two codes (P0013 & P0014).Also, my performance went down. When I reset the computer, the check engine light turns off, and everything runs fine, regardless of how far I drive, until I turn the car off. Once I turn it back on, same code, same performance drop. This is repeatable.Anyone have any other suggestions or things I can try before I take it to the garage? I've tried searching everywhere that I can but I haven't found any other solutions other than to replace the camshaft position sensors and change the oil.
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

Camshaft Position Sensor Replacement - Intake

Removal Procedure

  1. Remove the intake manifold cover. Refer to Intake Manifold Cover Replacement (See: Engine, Cooling and Exhaust\Engine\Intake Manifold\Service and Repair).
  2. Disconnect the intake camshaft position (CMP) sensor electrical connector (2).

  1. Remove the CMP sensor bolt.
  2. Remove the CMP sensor.

Installation Procedure

Note: Inspect the CMP sensor for damage, replace as necessary.

  1. Lubricate the CMP sensor O-ring seal with clean engine oil.
  2. Install the CMP sensor.

Caution: Refer to Fastener Caution (See: Service Precautions\Vehicle Damage Warnings\Fastener Caution).

  1. Install the CMP sensor bolt and tighten to 10 Nm (89 lb in) .

  1. Connect the intake CMP sensor electrical connector (2).
  2. Install the intake manifold cover. Refer to Intake
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I would like to have a plan B if the cam sensors don't fix it.
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

if its not the sensors the timing chain or guides have failed...sensors are where you start

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Nice pics too!! let me check them out. can you give me a minute John?
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

yup

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

Please remember to only rate my service when you are satisfied. IF you feel the need to rate "Poor Service" or "Bad Service", please stop and reply to me via the REPLY TO EXPERT button with the issue you have. I will be happy to continue further and do everything I can to provide you with the service you seek.

I am not paid unless I get a rating of 3 to 5 Stars/Smiley Faces. If I have helped you with your question, please give me an appropriate rating so that I get credit for helping you

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
John you there?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Sorry I closed the wrong window>>>>
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

yes

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok thanks for sticking around John
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

no problem

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
any idea how much the cam sensors cost? ballpark?
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

factory gm sensors are like 69 dollars each list

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

part #12577245 $67.98

Please remember to only rate my service when you are satisfied. IF you feel the need to rate "Poor Service" or "Bad Service", please stop and reply to me via the REPLY TO EXPERT button with the issue you have. I will be happy to continue further and do everything I can to provide you with the service you seek.

I am not paid unless I get a rating of 3 to 5 Stars/Smiley Faces. If I have helped you with your question, please give me an appropriate rating so that I get credit for helping you

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
on the gif files, the arrow indicates the front of the car correct?
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

yup

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
in the procedure you attached it refers to something that is underlined. is that referring to the gif files?
they don't appear to show the intake manifold??? and that sounds like an involved process???
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

Fastener Caution

Caution: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I printed another picture of the sensors that show them on top of the engine. your pics show them on the side of the engine. I don't have the file to share with you unfortunately. hold on can I send you a picture John?
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

its reffering to the plastic cover

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I just took a picture of what the I thought the CMP sensors are, which are on top of the engine. Can I post it for you to see?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
thank you for the pic of the plastic manifold. Now I understand what that is.
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

according to my records my diagrams are correct unless you have a 08 build date ...but they are both in the vicinity.. should be a easy job

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

hope u rate me 5 stars

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Are you able to see the pic I'm trying to post??
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Is this part located in the general area of the red circle John?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
are there two of these sensors? #1 & #2 in your gif picture?
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

little bit lower but yes there is 2 the other one is below the other cam

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
on my OBD reader it says B camshaft pos actuator control circuit, Open Bank 1 for the P0013 code. Does this mean that just one of the sensors are bad?
for the P0014 it says B camshaft position, Timing over advanced or system performance Bank 1.
do you know what the "B" and "Bank 1" mean? I'm hoping I don't have to buy two of the sensors......
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

B is the exhaust cam side...

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

I usually change them both but correct

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
would that be the #1 or #2 in the picture?
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

the one closest to the exhaust manifold

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

the intake side is the side closest to the intake manifold / fuel supply..............the exhaust side is closest to the exhaust manfold

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I'm gonna go take a look at it, be right back.
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

k

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The yellow circle shows the #1 in your picture. The red circle shows a part that I saw in another article that could be the problem. Do you have the means to determine what sensors they are?
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

do you have the 2 sensors circled in red?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
btw John, I realize that I'm putting you thru the ringer and probably asking you to go above and beyond what the avg person asks of you. Just letting you know that if you help me get this corrected, I will be more than on your rating. ;-)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The parts, no I don't
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
another article suggested to change them. I thought they were the Camshaft position sensors prior to contacting you.
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

does your motor have the sensors circled in red...not did you but them

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
no I added the red and yellow circles
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

your confusing me is that your motor pictured or not?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I went and just took that picture.
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

those are them ...

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I opend it and circle the area in yellow which (I believe) refers to one of the parts you are suggesting I replace
In the red circle are two parts that a couple other articles suggested I replace. I no longer have that info and was wondering what the parts inside the red circle are called. Just in case your plan doesn't work, I will then maybe try replacing the parts inside the red circle as a 2nd option.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Am I making any more sense?
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

those are cam position actuator solenoids

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
beautiful!! Thank you John! if you were me would you still try replacing the sensors first and not the solenoids?
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

correct hope you rate me 5 star

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

Please remember to only rate my service when you are satisfied. IF you feel the need to rate "Poor Service" or "Bad Service", please stop and reply to me via the REPLY TO EXPERT button with the issue you have. I will be happy to continue further and do everything I can to provide you with the service you seek.

I am not paid unless I get a rating of 3 to 5 Stars/Smiley Faces. If I have helped you with your question, please give me an appropriate rating so that I get credit for helping you

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Last question John, when I asked you about what the "B" meant, you said B is the exhaust cam side... closest to the exhaust manifold, I would assume the one closest to the exhaust manifold would be the one side closest to the cab or rear of the vehicle. Or farthest from the front of the car. Or the #1 in the picture attached?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
would the #1 be closest to the exhaust manifold?
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

yup

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok thanks John. Actually the info I found where they suggested replacing the solenoids first was a guy named "Goodwrench9124" who is also on this site. I'm going to O'reileys to buy the parts now. Thank you
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

hope you rate me 5 star it can be either... a good scan tool with live data would help confirm

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

code 13 is the solenoid code 14 is the sensor... so try the solenoid first...if that does not resolve it the sensor would be next I doubt its a timing chain unless the timing chain is noisey

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

Please remember to only rate my service when you are satisfied. IF you feel the need to rate "Poor Service" or "Bad Service", please stop and reply to me via the REPLY TO EXPERT button with the issue you have. I will be happy to continue further and do everything I can to provide you with the service you seek.

I am not paid unless I get a rating of 3 to 5 Stars/Smiley Faces. If I have helped you with your question, please give me an appropriate rating so that I get credit for helping you

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
OK John, the woman at O'reileys said that that(in the attached picture) the #2 part is the camshaft sensor. She said this car only has one of them and that the #1 part is called a CRANKshaft sensor. I showed her the picture and told her that I was told that both #1 & #2 are camshaft sensors. Regardless I bought the exact part you mentioned above. Installed it, started the car and the check engine light is still on. Ran it a while, turned on and off and the check lite was still on. I hooked up the OBD reader and again I got the same results with codes P0013 & P0014.
Can you verify that #1 and #2 are indeed different parts or the same part and if I replace the two solenoids, can I get away with replacing one of them and if so which one should I replace? one of them is $44 the other is $48. I think its BS that I'm supposed replace one part that costs $50 and if that doesn't work spend another $50 on the next part and just keep doing that until the problem goes away. I could end up spending $200+, when if this OBD reader would tell me What the problem is instead of giving me vague answers. seems like the OBD reader was a wasted $100 just like this f**king sensor.
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

did you reset the light?

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

do you have a ohm meter and do you know how to use it...codes only point you in a direction.. they don't tell you if the part id failed we can test it with a ohm meter or if you have a scan tool with live data and functional tests we can check sensors

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

1 - Mass Air Flow (MAF)/Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor (L61/LE5)
2 - Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor (L61/LE5)
3 - Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Solenoid
4 - Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor (L61)
5 - Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) Module (L61/LE5)
6 - Engine Oil Pressure (EOP) Switch
7 - Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor
8 - Starter Solenoid
9 - Knock Sensor (KS) (L61/LE5)
10 - Secondary Air Injection (AIR) Pump (NU6)
11 - A/C Compressor Clutch (C67)
12 - Generator

Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

do you have a ohm meter and do you know how to use it...codes only point you in a direction.. they don't tell you if the part is failed we can test it with a ohm meter or if you have a scan tool with live data and functional tests we can check sensors...but a code only point you in a direction

  1. Ignition OFF, disconnect the CMP actuator solenoid harness connector at the CMP actuator solenoid.
  2. Test for less than 5ohm between the low reference circuit terminal B and ground.

¤If greater than the specified range, test the low reference circuit for an open/high resistance.

  1. Verify that a test lamp does not illuminate between the low reference circuit terminal B and the control circuit terminal A.

¤If the test lamp illuminates, test the control circuit for short to voltage. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.

  1. Remove the test lamp.
  2. Command the CMP Actuator Sol. ON with a scan tool. Verify the scan tool CMP Sol Ckt Short Gnd Test status is OK.

¤If not the specified value, test the control circuit for a short to ground. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.

  1. Install a 3A fused jumper wire between the control circuit terminal A and the low reference circuit terminal B. Command the CMP Actuator Sol. ON with a scan tool. Verify the scan tool CMP Sol Ckt Short Gnd Test status is Fault.

¤If not the specified value, test the control circuit for an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.

  1. Determine that the vehicle has the correct engine oil. Refer to Service and Appearance Care.

¤If the engine oil life system monitor displays the Change Oil Soon message, the engine oil is more than one year old, contains additives, or is not the correct viscosity, change the oil.

  1. Test the engine oil pressure. Refer to Oil Pressure Diagnosis and Testing (See: Engine, Cooling and Exhaust\Engine\Testing and Inspection\Component Tests and General Diagnostics).

¤If the oil pressure is low, correct the low pressure first.

  1. Inspect each CMP actuator solenoid valve assembly for the following:
    • Torn screens
    • Debris on the screens
    • Debris clogging the oil ports
    • Missing screens
    • Oil seepage at the solenoid connector pins
  1. Connect a jumper wire between the CMP actuator low reference circuit terminal B at the solenoid and a good ground. Connect a fused jumper wire to the CMP actuator high control circuit terminal A at the solenoid. Momentarily touch the fused jumper to B+. Observe the spool valve inside the CMP actuator. The spool valve should move.

¤If movement is not observed, replace the CMP actuator solenoid.

  1. Inspect the engine timing components. Refer to Camshaft Timing Chain and Sprocket Cleaning and Inspection ().
  2. If all circuits test normal, test or replace the CMP actuator.

Component Testing

  1. Measure the resistance of each CMP actuator solenoid valve assembly. Resistance should be between 8-12ohm.
  2. Connect a jumper wire between the CMP actuator low reference circuit at the solenoid and a good ground. Connect a fused jumper wire to the CMP actuator high control circuit at the solenoid. Momentarily touch the fused jumper to B+. Observe the spool valve inside the CMP actuator. The spool valve should move from fully closed to fully opened position
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I do have an ohmmeter and understand it. I will give your procedure my best shot although it makes a lot of assumptions. I may not get a chance to work on it for another week as the car belongs to my girlfriend. I will keep you posted John, thank you!
Expert:  john aka eaut replied 1 year ago.

did you reset the light after install...? and if you look at my diagram the crank sensor is by the crankshaft...not sure what the parts person was reffering to