How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask Dan Your Own Question

Dan
Dan, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Pontiac
Satisfied Customers: 2270
Experience:  20 + years working on cars 9 years GM Tech
Type Your Pontiac Question Here...
Dan is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

2001 Pontiac Montana: assembly..passenger side..bulb flashes

Resolved Question:

I have a 2001 Pontiac Montana with 2 issues which may or may not be related to the turn signal assembly.

Problem one deals with the passenger side blinker. For the past several months the bulb flashes approx once every 45 seconds without the turn signal arm being activated. When activated the turn signal still works but goes back to the every 45 second flash when turned off. Today, however, I came outside and the bulb was flashing slowly all by itself. The keys were not in the ignition. When turn signal activated it worked and flashed more quickly but went back to slow blink when arm turned off.

Problem two. Wiper arms go to up position when wiper switch is in off position.

Would like your take on this little irritation. Don't like driving without working turn signals.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Pontiac
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
Hello
My name is Dan,

2 different problems here.
1) turns signal issue: check to see if there was a trailer wiring connector wired in to it. To wire up a trailer on these requires a little box/module for the trailer lights to work and that box/module can go bad and cause this issue. Other common issues would be the back tail light bulb holders shorting out. We would need to do some wiring test on it to narrow it down for sure. Tell me more about the issue like what bulbs are lighting up, which side, does the little green arrow light up also? and i can tell you what wires to check, You would need a volt meter and some basic knowledge on how to do voltage checks.
2) the wiper issue is caused by the wiper crank arm in the wrong position or the tab is bent on the bracket where the wiper motor is mounted to. or the module is bad.
If you want to check the crank arm, I can put you some pictures together on how to check it.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Good morning Dan. Sorry it took so long to get back to you. It took me 4 hours yesterday to re-establish my JustAnswer account. Somehow they made me an expert and it screwed up my whole access to the experts. It was a mess but all appears well now. Hopefully I can give you the additional information you need. I do know what you are talking about regarding the trailer wiring connection box and I do not have one. Regarding front passenger side blinker: until yesterday all blinkers (front and back) were working properly when activated by the turn signal arm. The only problem I had which has been going on for months was the passenger side blinker would blink about every 45 seconds without the turn signal arm being activated. I could live with that but yesterday when I came out to get into the car I noticed that blinker was slowly blinking without the keys even being in the ignition. The only way I could stop that slow blinking was to pull the fuse. When I put the fuse back in, the slow blinking continued but would flash more quickly when I signaled for a right turn. After completing the right turn, the arm deactivated properly but the slower blink continued. All other turn signals, brake, emergency and running lights work perfectly. This problem is completely contained to the front right passenger side blinker. The green arrows also come on when the arm is activated right and left. But the green arrow does not flash when arm is in neutral position even though the front blinker is in that slow flash mode I was telling you about. So when I signal left the green arrow shows left and when I signal right the green arrows shows right but when the arm returns to middle position the blinker up front slow flashes but green arrow does not indicate on dash. Any help you can send to regarding wiper issue would be great. Where is that module located? I have access to a complete auto body and repair shop and have been doing most of my own car repairs for years. I have training in electronic circuits so am very familiar with voltage checks. I am just not familiar with car circuitry and don't know where to start. Look forward to hearing from you at your convenience. I will be in and out all day so no worries about reply time. I appreciate your help. Dave
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
Hey Dave,
Sorry for the delay, was out all day away from computer.
You have an issue with the DRL module or the turn signal switch. I need to look at the wiring diagram a little more and get back to you with instructions on what to test
I got to run for a few hours but will type up some instructions late tonight for you if that is ok.
Will also type up some instructions to set that park arm for the wiper.
Thanks for waiting for me.
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
Click here for a file to adjust the crank arm. Some pictures may be backwards but same principal.


Ok, the DRL ( daytime running lights ) use the turn signal bulbs. We know the wires are ok because all of that work. The Front turn lights go through the DRL Module. Lets start to test it there. Locate the DRL module. Up under the steering column to the left of it. See picture. Find Connector 2 ( Black Connector) and find pin G the dark blue wire with the white stripe. Check that for voltage when the problem is acting up. Should not be voltage there when the turn signal is not applied. That wire comes from the turn signal switch for the RF turn light. You can compare the reading with the left side pin E the light blue wire with the white stripe. If there is voltage on the pin G , the turn signal switch is probably bad. If there is no voltage there while its acting up, the DRL module is Bad.
graphic
(1)HVAC
(2)LH Side of I/P
(3)I/P Harness
(4)Cross Car Beam (LH Side of I/P)
(5)Daytime Running Lamps (DRL) Control Module Mounting Bracket
(6)Daytime Running Lamps (DRL) Control Module
(7)Daytime Running Lamps (DRL) Control Module Connector C1
(8)Daytime Running Lamps (DRL) Control Module Connector C2
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Dan. Just got back to the computer and understand your instructions. Won't be able to get to the testing until Tues because I will be away from home all day tomorrow. One update for you. I had unplugged both bulbs from the right side so I could at least have the use of the other front and both rear turn signals. Out of curiosity I plugged both bulbs back in just a few minutes ago and the slow non stop blinking has stopped. I still get the every 45 second or so blink however. All turn signals still function properly when activated. Just the every 45 second blink is still a problem. With regards XXXXX XXXXX windshield wipers I just wanted to make sure I gave you enough information. The wipers work perfectly in all switch positions. However, when I turn the arm to the off position both wiper blades stop in an up position. Would like to get that resolved if possible. Thanks again for all your help. I really appreciate it. I should have no problem running the voltage tests. Do it all the time when I troubleshoot HVAC systems. Been bit a few times if you know what I mean. If I have to replace the turn signal switch is that the expensive part. I was looking on line and it appears that the arm with the wiring harness and "module" attached to the end was about $300. Is the DRL module not part of the Signal arm assembly? Hope you have a nice evening. I'm off to watch a movie. Dave
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
Hey Dave,
if that tab on the wiper frame is bent and not catching the wiper crank arm, it will park in the up position.
the turn signal switch is really called a multifunction switch. the DRL module is a separate item. You can back probe that circuit and see is the switch is sending voltage to the drl module every 45 sec. Yes, They are expensive. At the dealer i work at, I keep a few different switches around to plug up to see if problem goes away, but not every one has a spare switch laying around. Saves me time sometimes by not doing wiring tests.

Let me know if you have more questions on it.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Morning Dan. Thanks for the correct terminology. Will use in future. Would you be able to explain where the tab on the wiper frame is located? I've taken a pretty good look at the workings and it appears there are 2 arms, one from each wiper station going to a central location which I believe is where the drive motor is located. I'm pretty sure I understand how the system works I just don't know what and where the tab is located. Hope you had a great weekend. Back to the grind I guess.
Dave
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
That file that i sent in the earlier post had a picture of where the tab is. Open the hood and remove that shied above the wipers ( to the right of the washer bottle as your looking under the hood) once that shied is off, you can see the wiper motor buy the washer bottle. On top of the wiper motor is that crank arm that connects to the rod that connects to the wiper arms. Under the crank arm is the tab that is shown in picture.
Let me know if that makes any sense.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ooooooooops. Didn't see that file. Only saw the one with the wiring diagram. I opened the file you were referring to and like they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Before I took the damn thing apart I decided to lube the shit out of it first. You guessed it. Now it works perfectly every time. I assume the grease is allowing movement over the tab and as long as the tab doesn't get bent any worse and everything continues to work properly I will just keep my paws off of it. I can always fix it later if the problem starts up again. I am going out to try and fix the light. I no longer have the problem with the continuous slow blink with the multifunction switch in the off position. Notice how I used the correct termonology for the switch? I may be getting old but I can still follow directions. I don't know why that particular problem just stopped but I deserve a break. The only remaining problem with that blinker is the 1 blink every 45 seconds to 1 minute without that multifunction switch being activated. Hope the cars were kind to you today. They can be pissy sometime. Bolts break off. Parts located in places where a 3rd grader wouldn't design them to be. Why don't they ask the people who work on the cars to help design them. One of the worst changes they made as far as I'm concerned is when they put the heater core in the dash which now has to be removed in order to get at it. In the old days it was under the hood. Five or six bolts to get the cover off and botta bing botta bang, there it was. Remove a couple of hose clamps and that was it. Oh well. I'm preaching to the choir. I'm sure you have many more nightmare stories regarding part locations. In any event it has been great chatting with you over these past days. I will go and work on the wiring and get back to you so you can get paid. Regards, Dave
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,,Ooooooooops. Didn't see that file. Only saw the one with the wiring diagram. I opened the file you were referring to and like they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Before I took the damn thing apart I decided to lube the shit out of it first. You guessed it. Now it works perfectly every time. I assume the grease is allowing movement over the tab and as long as the tab doesn't get bent any worse and everything continues to work properly I will just keep my paws off of it. I can always fix it later if the problem starts up again. I am going out to try and fix the light. I no longer have the problem with the continuous slow blink with the multifunction switch in the off position. Notice how I used the correct termonology for the switch? I may be getting old but I can still follow directions. I don't know why that particular problem just stopped but I deserve a break. The only remaining problem with that blinker is the 1 blink every 45 seconds to 1 minute without that multifunction switch being activated. Hope the cars were kind to you today. They can be pissy sometime. Bolts break off. Parts located in places where a 3rd grader wouldn't design them to be. Why don't they ask the people who work on the cars to help design them. One of the worst changes they made as far as I'm concerned is when they put the heater core in the dash which now has to be removed in order to get at it. In the old days it was under the hood. Five or six bolts to get the cover off and botta bing botta bang, there it was. Remove a couple of hose clamps and that was it. Oh well. I'm preaching to the choir. I'm sure you have many more nightmare stories regarding part locations. In any event it has been great chatting with you over these past days. I will go and work on the wiring and get back to you so you can get paid. Regards, Dave
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Dan. Took a look at the wiring but am in need of clarification. Now that I have seen the harness I need to know exactly what wires I am touching with my probes. I know one of the probes goes to the dark blue wire with the white stripe which I see but I am not sure where the other probe should go. To ground? I actually timed the intervals between flashes and it is almost exactly every 30 seconds. What I tried to do was probe the dark blue wire with white stripe and then took other probe to ground. I got no reading even though the bulb continued to flash every 30 seconds. I also activated turn signal with same probe configuration and got no readings on my meter even though the light was blinking as it would for a normal turn signal. I assume I am not positioning my probes correctly or I didn't have a good ground. To put it simply, where do I position each of my 2 probes.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I didn't give up. I actually figured it out. I probed the dark blue wire with the white stripe to the black wire in the same connector. When I activated the turn signal my meter reacted to each blink. Here's where it gets weird. With the blinker off but the probes still attached the every 30 second flash stopped. I watched for 5 minutes just to make sure. When I removed the probes the problem immediately started once again every 30 seconds. Does this make any sense. I could make a jumper between the two connectors if you think that would work long term.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I tried the jump between the 2 wires. Doesn't work. Fuse blows. So I still have the same interesting issue. As long as my probes are connected between the 2 wires I do not get the every 30 second blink. As soon as I take them out the blink starts once again. When the probes are inserted and I activate the arm the meter reacts as I would expect. When I turn off the arm the meter goes to zero and stays there even though the bulb continues to flash every 30 seconds. Does that point to a bad DRL module? 5:50PM Sorry for all these chats but I think we have resolved the problem. Just let me know what you think.
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
Hey DAve,
Sorry for the delay, Kids had soccer game tonight and had to get lawn mower ready for kids to mow.
Question, CAn you hear the flasher activating/going off when it does the every 30 sec?
The other test would be to remove that wire out (dark blue wire with white stripe) out of the connector to the DRL module or cut it and see if it acts up then,and resplice it back later.

on the wipers, that crank arm needs to contact the tab when you turn off the wipers. If it does not contact the tab, it will park in the upright position.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hey Dan. Family first. Already raised my 2. First grandchild on way. For now the wipers are working perfectly. If they start to act up I have your directions for the fix and will proceed accordingly. No. If you are referring to the "flasher module" which is near the DRL module then no. I do hear it when I activate the arm for a left or right turn however. No noise on the every 30 second flash. Does this change anything you want me to do? Good idea about cutting wire out of circuit. No problem doing that and then resplice back in.
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
By the test you done and results you gave me it points to the DRL module. But i have seen these multifunction switches cause a so slight voltage leak that could trick the drl module to think that the lever has been pushed and when you hook the meter up to it, the meter absorbs the voltage and the problem does not happen, gotta love these electronics!
My gut would say to replace the multifunction switch or plug a known good one into it and see what happens. May be there is a part store that will let you plug one up, you can plug it up at the connector under the dash without tearing the column apart to replace it. I have replaced a lot of these multifunction switches ( for other reasons) but never replaced a DRL module yet. I looked through all my GM information sites for weird issues and this issue never showed up.
BTY way, make sure nothing got wired in like a remote starter that tied into the park lights>
Congrads on the GrandKids. Love watching the kids reacting to grandparents!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Yeah. I agree with you about the switch. I haven't cut the wire yet and before I do could you answer this for me? Is the DRL module just a part that routes signals to the proper location? That's what I believe it does. It doesn't generate any type of electrical pulse does it? If that is the case then the DRL module is probably not bad as it only routes what is sent to it. Even if I cut the wire all this would prove is that we have stopped whatever signal is going through the DRL modules dark blue with white stripe wire. After cutting this wire I would expect that the right front blinker would not work and I strongly suspect the every 30 second issue would stop as well because it no longer has a path to travel. What still puzzles me is where the every 30 second pulse is coming from. Would the multifunction switch be capable of sending that signal?
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
The DRL module uses the front turn signals for the Day time running lights. So the module will turn on the front turn signals solid when the conditions are right. Now when the DRL lights are on and you turn the turn signal on, The front turn light is already on, so the voltage comes from the multifunction switch through the dark blue wire with the white stripe. The module then turns the front turn light on and off until the voltage is gone from that wire. by what i see on the wiring diagram, the DRL module turns on and off the turn light instead of it running through the DRL module from the flasher.
if you cut that wire and it stops, then its the multifunction switch, if it still blinks, then its the DRL module.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I cut the wire and as expected the turn signal was disabled. However, the lamp remained lit and DID NOT begin the every 30 second flash. When I spliced wire back together the every 30 second blink started once again. So I have the worse case scenerio. It looks like I will have to replace the multifunction switch assembly. Would you agree? I believe that is what you mentioned in the last chat but I want to make sure I read it correctly. Of course it has to be the most expensive repair as well. Oh well. It is what it is. May try the junkyard and hope for the best. We have 2 or 3 in the area.
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
Does sound like the multi function switch is bad.
Search around on the internet also. check ebay also

let me know how it comes out.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I'll have to take the steering column cover off to actually look at the part. When I went on line to look for the assembly there were different assemblies available ranging in price from about $200 to over $400. I don't know why they showed so many different assemblies even though I had narrowed search to Make, Model, & Year of Montana. Hope to get identify correct part today. Will keep you up to date. Thanks. Dave
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
Thats ok
only difference i know is with or without cruise control
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Dan. Well I just saved myself $300. In one of our prior chats, I told you that when I inserted the probes of my metered circuit tester between the black wire and the dark blue wire with the white stripe, that the every 30 second flash stopped with the right turn signal still operational when arm activated. Daytime running light still operational as well. All I did was take a simple circuit tester, (2 probes with a light $2.99), and inserted probes at the 2 wire points. Everything works perfectly now and the every 30 second flash has stopped entirely. Not quite sure why this is working but for now I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. I guess this is one to file away for weirdness. Thanks again, Dave.
Expert:  Dan replied 2 years ago.
Yea, you can do that. I was going to suggest something like wiring a diode in there to reduce the voltage leaking on the circuit but was unsure of doing that. I done it on an alternator issue a few years ago but GM told me where and what to install. If the voltage leak in the system becomes worse, this will not work but you can cross that bridge then.

Let me know if i could be of any more help.
You don't have to respond to this. I have to respond last for me to answer other questions
nice working with you
Dan, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Pontiac
Satisfied Customers: 2270
Experience: 20 + years working on cars 9 years GM Tech
Dan and 2 other Pontiac Specialists are ready to help you

JustAnswer in the News:

 
 
 
Ask-a-doc Web sites: If you've got a quick question, you can try to get an answer from sites that say they have various specialists on hand to give quick answers... Justanswer.com.
JustAnswer.com...has seen a spike since October in legal questions from readers about layoffs, unemployment and severance.
Web sites like justanswer.com/legal
...leave nothing to chance.
Traffic on JustAnswer rose 14 percent...and had nearly 400,000 page views in 30 days...inquiries related to stress, high blood pressure, drinking and heart pain jumped 33 percent.
Tory Johnson, GMA Workplace Contributor, discusses work-from-home jobs, such as JustAnswer in which verified Experts answer people’s questions.
I will tell you that...the things you have to go through to be an Expert are quite rigorous.
 
 
 

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C. Freshfield, Liverpool, UK
< Last | Next >
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C. Freshfield, Liverpool, UK
  • This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!! Alex Los Angeles, CA
  • Thank you for all your help. It is nice to know that this service is here for people like myself, who need answers fast and are not sure who to consult. GP Hesperia, CA
  • I couldn't be more satisfied! This is the site I will always come to when I need a second opinion. Justin Kernersville, NC
  • Just let me say that this encounter has been entirely professional and most helpful. I liked that I could ask additional questions and get answered in a very short turn around. Esther Woodstock, NY
  • Thank you so much for taking your time and knowledge to support my concerns. Not only did you answer my questions, you even took it a step further with replying with more pertinent information I needed to know. Robin Elkton, Maryland
  • He answered my question promptly and gave me accurate, detailed information. If all of your experts are half as good, you have a great thing going here. Diane Dallas, TX
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • Dave Nova

    Pontiac Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    1917
    ASE Master Certification. GM World Class Certification
< Last | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/DT/dt69nova/2012-6-15_234154_pic1.64x64.jpg Dave Nova's Avatar

    Dave Nova

    Pontiac Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    1917
    ASE Master Certification. GM World Class Certification
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/PE/peterpete190/2012-2-24_1274_20120215135406.64x64.jpg Pete's Avatar

    Pete

    Pontiac Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    1243
    15 Years Pontiac Technician and training.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/ggrote1/2009-06-27_031011_me.jpg Gary's Avatar

    Gary

    Pontiac Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    943
    15 years GM master tech/15 years ASE master
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/DR/drivefast1971/2012-1-12_172422_0009051tQKh.64x64.jpg Ron Z.'s Avatar

    Ron Z.

    - Pontiac Tech -

    Satisfied Customers:

    570
    18+yrs experience. State Inspector and Pontiac Diagnostics
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/testedtuff/2009-09-26_170108_pictures.jpg John's Avatar

    John

    GM FACTORY CERTIFIED TECHNICIAN

    Satisfied Customers:

    514
    ASE A1-A8 w/L1 GM master technician.Factory certified/40 years experience
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/Rocket2005/2009-09-13_133703_jack.jpg car tech's Avatar

    car tech

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    446
    25 years master tech and shop owner
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/MO/molurch/2012-6-6_214526_500.64x64.png Don 'Mo Lurch''s Avatar

    Don 'Mo Lurch'

    Pontiac Mechanic

    Satisfied Customers:

    441
    GM, Chevrolet Cert., Heavy Line Mech, Race Shop Owner, Mobile Electronics.