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Amedee
Amedee, Pontiac Technician
Category: Pontiac
Satisfied Customers: 21843
Experience:  ASE Master Technician advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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I have a 98 sunfire with 2.2 engine. the rear brake line blew.

Customer Question

I have a 98 sunfire with 2.2 engine. the rear brake line blew. Replaced it. No pressure in system...then replaced master cylinder & rear shoes & drums......manual & power bled. Still no pressure in system....was told to replace the brake modulator....rebled & still nothing. If I use the Tech 2...I can release the rear abs motor & I have brakes. As soon as I unplug the tech 2...it rehomes & I do not have brakes again.....can you tell me what is going on....I'm out of options
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Pontiac
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Hello!

 

If you open up the bleeder in that side that you replaced the line and take off the cap off of the master cylinder reservoir and fill the brake fluid up, eventually brake fluid should start to drip out of that caliper or wheel cylinder. This may take about 20 minutes or so, but you will just have to be patient. If brake fluid is still not coming out, then you can try bleeding it. But this may take some time as well.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I tried that....got some air out, but still no brakes. Any other suggestions
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
SO does any fluid come out when you try to bleed the brakes?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Yes....fluid comes out fine. The brake pedal is soft & goes to the floor no matter what we've done. But if you do the power bleeding by the manual....you have to apply & release the abs motors for front & rear....then cycle the solenoids....then reapply the abs motors. After that the pedal still goes to the floor. but if you use the tech2 & release the rear abs motor....we have brakes. You shut the tech 2 off & no pedal again. Why would we have a hard pedal when releasing the rear abs motor & then not have any after you shut the tech 2 off & it rehomes. Can not figure this out.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Did we bleed all of the brakes?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok replaced the master cylinder again.....have fluid to the front brakes...nothing but air to the rear ones.....what now???
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Fill the master fluid reservoir up with fluid. Leave the cap off. open one bleeder at a time and wait about ten minutes for it to start dripping out, then bleed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Got fluid to rear now. Bled all brakes....still have a soft pedal.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Did we bleed the fronts as well? Do we have fluid out at all 4 wheel? Any air coming out?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes bled all....still have air coming out right rear...which is the side the line blew
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
If you are still getting air out of the bleeder in the rear from that side the line was replaced, this means you are not air tight. You might have a bad connection between two lines... somewhere air is leaking in.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hubby says we have air on both rears....if you put the reservoir cap on it goes away.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
SO when you bleed the brakes, you are still getting air out of the rears?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes..he's gravity bleeding them right now.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
with the reservoir cap off & gravity bleeding we get air out of the rears.....If you put the cap on & gravity bleed them....no air
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Ok... leave the cap off.

 

If you bleed them with somebody pushing on the brake pedal do we still get air out of the rears?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

yes

 

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Ok... just keep bleeding....

 

There is alot of air that needs to get bled out. Be sure the master cylinder does not go dry while bleeding.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
He has been bleeding the right rear over an hour....can there really be that much air in the system??
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

If you keep getting air out of the right rear, then that means the line from the master cylinder to the right rear has a leak in it somewhere.

 

It is not air tight and keeps sucking air in. THats why you have a soft or spongy brake pedal.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
he's getting it out both rears
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Is there two lines seperate coming out of the master cylinder for the tow rears? Or is there only one line coming out of the master cylinder for the rears that splits into two?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

two separate lines coming from master cylinder

 

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
So the master cylinder has 4 lines coming out total?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Did you bench bleed the master cylinder before putting it in the car?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes it was bench bled. He said the 4 lines come off of the abs modulator that is connected to the master cylinder
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

WHen the master cylinder was replaced, did the reservoir get replaced also? Did the master cylinder come with a reservoir or was the old one used?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
old one was used
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

You might have a bad seal between the master cylinder and the reservoir. It sounds like the master cylinder is sucking air from somewhere.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
we put new seals on it
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Well, air is getting sucked in from somewhere.

 

WHat I would do, is bleed it at the ABS motor (the two rear lines) and see if you are still getting air in the system. If not, then you are picking up air after the ABS system and you know that the master cylinder and everything before the ABS motor is sealed air tight.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Bled all the bleeders from modulator, to all wheels. Still soft pedal. Use the tech2 & release the rear abs motor...have stiff pedal....apply the rear abs motor with tech 2 & soft pedal again. ????
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

NO... do not do anything to the ABS motor. You are making it way more complicated than it needs to be. There is no reason that the ABS motor should have been bled to begin with. Maybe now this is your problem. Maybe you have air trapped in the ABS motor.

 

We are going to do this one step at a time.

 

Bleed the two brake lines going into the ABS motor for the rear brakes. Be sure the master cylinder reservoir is filled up and bleed the two lines until there is no more air coming out. Stop at that point and let me know!

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
didn't do anything to the abs motor until after we got all done & still had no pedal.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Still .... there is no reason to do anything with the ABS motor.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

hold on I'll go get hubby

 

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
ok
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

He said in the pontiac shop manual it says to apply & release the abs motors 2-3 times & the solenoids 5-10 times & then bleed

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Just for a simple brake line repair? Throw that thing away!

 

I do brake lines at the shop all day long! I cannot remember the last time I needed to bleed an ABS motor!

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok no air at abs modulator...rear brake lines
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Are you at the ABS motor? These are the brake lines coming from the master cylinder... not going to the rear brakes! Just crack them loose and take off the cap on the master cylinder reservoir. Fluid should start dripping out.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
so gravity bleed???
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
YES... we are going to start by gravity bleeding.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok gravity bled the bleeders.....not the lines
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
No... go to the rear brake lines at the ABS motor(coming from the master cylinder) and crack them loose and let them drip for about 5 minutes. Keep the reservoir full.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Are you talking about the 4 lines coming off the abs modulator
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
there are NOT any brake lines from the master cylinder
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
YES... just the two that are COMING from the master cylinder for the rear... not the two that are going to the rear brakes.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
The brake lines go from the master cylinder to the ABS motor...correct?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
did you get that last info?
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
YES... there has to be brake lines coming from the master cylinder
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
There isn't....the brakes lines come off the brake modulator not the master cylinder
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Is it attached to the master cylinder?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Ok... Then crack open the two lines for the rear brakes that come off of the ABS motor that go to the rear brakes right at the ABS motor.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok what's next
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Is there fluid dripping out?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

yes there is

Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Ok... try bleeding it right there and see if it helps at all. Also, when the master cylinder was replaced, was the ABS unit replaced together as a entire unit?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
we let them drip for 15 mins ......no it wasn't.....replaced the master cylinder first....then had to get the modulator later & put together
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.
Ok... try to bleed it at the brake lines... let me know if it helps!
Amedee, Pontiac Technician
Category: Pontiac
Satisfied Customers: 21843
Experience: ASE Master Technician advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
Amedee and other Pontiac Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
thanks for trying but we finally got it figured out using a 1992 Oldsmobile book for bleeding....got it on the first try with that procedure.
Expert:  Amedee replied 4 years ago.

Excellent!

 

Glad to hear it all fixed!

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