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Jerry, Plumber
Category: Plumbing
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Experience:  over 20 years residential plumbing experience.
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Kohler toilet, 1.6 gallons, K-4634-BA, Fluid Master 400 model:

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Kohler toilet, 1.6 gallons, K-4634-BA, Fluid Master 400 model: Since I bought the toilet, flushes fully only if I hold down handle, but then the bowl doesn't fill properly, gets very little water. Sometimes, after tank is full, I can very lightly use the handle--not enough for it to actually flush, but seems to "leak" just a bit more water into the bowel. This replaced an older model toilet that never had this problem. What, please, is going on?
Welcome to JA! Make certain the flexible tube that sprays water out is directed inside of the overflow tube in the tank. This must spray water inside the tube and not into the tank.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
The flexible tube that sprays water out (what I called the overflow tube) does indeed flow into the overflow tube. And, yes, water does come out of there, but for some reason, the bowl does not fill.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Relist: Incomplete answer.
This is the same question, only the answer I received is essentially the first thing I checked, namely to make sure water from source was flowing into the overflow tube (not just spraying into the tank). So, basically, I did not get an answer, and I do not expect to be charged for that. Okay?
The only place it can go is into the bowl. Check to make sure there is full flow out of the tube during the flush. Sometimes there is a restricted tube from a kink. It should spray out at least 12" horizontal. If not you will need to replace fill valve or try cleaning out sediment that has clogged the refill tube port.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I have checked all that you say. Water does flow out of the flexible tube at good pressure; there is no sediment; there is no kink. And flexible tube is directed into the overlow. It just seems like the water that flows into the bowl is somehow getting syphoned out of the bowl. The amount of water remaining in the bowl is about the same height as the built in trap in the bowl itself. Does this make sense? I understand the basic function of a toilet, and I'm wondering if my problem might be with the venting of the line itself--only that my previous toilet never had this problem. Also, why would I have to actually hold the lever down before it flushes? If I just trip the lever, I do not get an adequate flush. Is there maybe a problem with the fill valve itself?
I think the toilet is probably working fine. There is a huge difference in how a 1.6 gal flushes compared to the 3.5. Its a sudden quick flush and no...there's not much water in the bowl. If you manually add water, and it still goes down to the same level, then that's where it is. Try putting 20 feet of toilet paper in and flushing, I think you'll find it sucks it right down.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I can manually add water, and the new water level does stay; that is, it does not go back to the almost empty bowl. I do not want to have to manually add water, though that does work. Like I said, it's almost like water gets syphoned out of the bowl as it's filling (or trying to fill). I have another Kohler, low flow toilet that I bought a few months before this one, and that does not behave like this one. It does fill the bowl with a proper amount of water. The one in question does not--and also does not fully flush unless I hold the lever down. Do you think the fill valve itself may be at fault? This unit came all preassembled in the tank when I bought the toilet.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Relist: Inaccurate answer.
you can review my questions, Jerry's answers, my replies. Seems as though my question is still not answered. Can I just cancel all this out, like this never happened, and not get charged? If no, then, I'd like to get some suggestions as to what the problem is with my toilet. Thanks.
The fill valve is not the problem. If it is siphoning out the water you either have a partial clog in the toilet, or a plugged toilet vent line. If this is freshly installed and no problem with the toilet removed, you could have a factory defect. If it had a problem before, I would suspect a plugged toilet vent. That would cause siphoning.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
If the venting is inadequate, will a Scoder vent work, and if so, should I install this in the waste line above the toilet, below the toilet, or does it matter?
If the venting is plugged, its usually at the waste line. If you add a studer it is going to be easier to just unblock the vent. If you think the vent is blocked up higher then yes you could add a studer. You would put it off a tee after the toilet flange within 6 ft.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I have had the entire system cleaned out with a power snake. I even had our septic cleaned, only to be told we needn't have had to do that. But I know that our waste lines are not at fault--as to the vent line, how does that get plugged up? Should I run a snake from the roof down the vent? That, I have not done. I did have a studer installed, but it may have been more than 6' from the toilet flange. But it is after the toilet flange that one should be installed? Not before? Thanks
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I just received an email saying that my reply has been answered. But it hasn't yet. Last I have here is my latest reply, but no answer.
There isn't a way to install before the flange. The flange is the first thing on that line. Yes you could run a snake down a roof vent. The vent can get clogged from having a backed up line then plunging the toilet, this can force solids into the vent pipe.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Okay, I understand that the toilet flange would be first in line, but what I mean is that under the house, I have a waste line in which the toilet waste is connected. The studer vent was installed "down the line" from the toilet connection. Would my installing a studer vent in the waste line, before the problem toilet, do any good?
Not likely to help that toilet.
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