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Candy
Candy, Veterinary Technician
Category: Dog
Satisfied Customers: 10861
Experience:  Practicing Veterinary Technician for 26 years.Former Veterinary Practice Owner, Technician Trainer
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My 9 1/2 year old Golden Retriever was drooling excessively

Resolved Question:

My 9 1/2 year old Golden Retriever was drooling excessively (floor slick and leaving puddles everywhere) and very stiff. Also not "really in there". His eyes didn't look "right". I got him in the car - he jumped up himself, though very slow and still stiff - and took to the vet, but doc wasn't there for another 2 hours. He is my Service Dog and I wasn't leaving him to wait. I brought him back home...he is not as stiff, though VERY lethargic. He will drink - a lot - but won't eat. Wet food, his favorite treat. I had a Schwans cheese burger...normally wolfs these down. Wouldn't take it, so I put in his mouth and he held it for a second and then swallowed...didn't chew. He is clenching his jaws, but I forced the other 3 pieces in his mouth and he did same thing.

Seizure? Stroke? I am ruling out dental, since that wouldn't affect his gait, etc...would it? He does have "one bad ear" - always has. It's always red and has black stuff...the other is always completely healthy. We have treated it, it won't matter. It's the side he sleeps on and I think it gets moist.

Any advice? Like I said, he is my Service Dog and my world.
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Dog
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

Hello,
I am so sorry your little one is having trouble.I would love to help I just have a few questions so I can better assist you.

 

How is he doing now does he seem to be improving?

 

Any previous medical history?

 

Any history of seizure?

 

Any tilting of the head or rapid eye movement?

 

Any chance he got into anything toxic

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Nope...nothing toxic. No history of anything! Been so very healthy.

No tilting of head or eye movement - I thought about the Vestibular thing.

He just this very second got up for the first time when my other 2 were barking at the neighbor.

He seems to be panting a lot - but that's not all that uncommon.

His gums and tongue are nice and pink...of course, rather "wet". LOL!! The tip of his tongue is literally like a pool of drool.

I am thinking seizure. Just not sure if the "lack of appetite" is the normal thing...I have read that VORACIOUS appetite would be more common?

I could take him to the vet, I am just not sure what good it would do. I can't afford to do MRI's, CAT scans, etc. Not sure what x-rays would rule out. His tummy isn't hard. He is pooping and peeing fine.

Spending $500 at the vet to be told "Don't know what's going on" is just something I have done too often and with some other things going on, is something I just shouldn't do. I am having to have some MAJOR dental work done, and have an appointment on Thursday.

On the other hand, if he needs to be seen, we will be there in 10 minutes!!!!

If I wait 24 hours to see if it's a seizure and he's just in "recovery"...I can do that. If waiting could lead to something further - death, etc - I will be out the door faster than I can blink!

Just not sure what to do next...
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OH...and he seems to be drinking a lot. Not eating, just drinking. He is in the kitchen now again drinking...and was just in there 30 minutes ago or so. Just more info...
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

Thank you for the information. I can imagine how scary this is especially when you rely on him so much for your daily needs.

 

It does should like he had a seizure. In an older dog this can be due to liver disease, kidney disease, diabetes, Problems with the thyroid , metabolic disorders like Addison's and Cushing disease and brain tumors.

 

Many times no actual cause is found and no treatment is started unless they have more then 2 seizures in a 2 month period.

 

I completely understand the financial concerns. I would however want to at least get a blood panel done in a dog this age to be sure this is not due to one of the problems I mentioned above especially the liver kidneys and thyroid.

 

You also do not want to force food on them when they are having a seizure this will not help and may actually cause them to choke . Most dogs do not want to eat after or during a seizure we see an increased appetite more in dogs that are on meds especially ones that receive valium to help stop a seizure.

Drinking is normal as a seizure elevates the body temp.

 

If he seems to be recovering he does not have to be rushed in but I would get blood work in the next few days.

Here is some great information on seizures, the types of seizures that you may see and the possible causes.

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/site_map.htm

 

 

I hope all goes well, please reply back if you have additional questions or concerns

Candy

Candy, Veterinary Technician
Category: Dog
Satisfied Customers: 10861
Experience: Practicing Veterinary Technician for 26 years.Former Veterinary Practice Owner, Technician Trainer
Candy and 4 other Dog Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OK...thank you Candy. I think this is exactly what is happening. He was hot - and still is warm. That makes sense...I hadn't read that piece of information so THANK YOU SO MUCH! That helps with this puzzle.

I have had a dog on my own for over 20 years...and owned 7, through many trials and tribulations. I have learned to not rush to the vet over everything - I would have a lot more money in my pocket if I hadn't. LOL!!

But like you said, I will have him seen. Just will let him recover and get more comfortable for now. I mean, if there is nothing they can do for him RIGHT NOW, why make him go through all of that when he isn't feeling well.

I appreciate your advice and will "accept" now. Thanks again for helping me feel a bit more at peace with my thoughts.
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

You are very welcome. If the seizure has stopped then there is nothing they can do for him at this time so I think you are completely safe waiting to have him seen.

 

I am glad I was here to help you both.

 

Best Wishes

Candy

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Candy...really quickly, if you don't mind?

Could you tell me how long to expect "recovery" to last? Should he be better already, or all day...a couple of days, etc?

We got up about 7am...but as I mentioned, I don't know how long it had been going on.
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

Of course I do not mind .

 

The Post-Ictal Phase differers in each dog but some can take up to 24 hours to fully recover. Some vets believe that giving a small amount of honey or syrup(karo or pancake) helps restore the blood glucose levels and helps during this stage.

 

Here is more on the 4 stages of a seizure

http://www.corysstory.com/2010/06/4-stages-seizure-dog/

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OK...thanks. Will read that. That was my thinking behind "forcing" the tiny hamburger patty. It's a mini burger, so the patty is 2" by 2". He normally loves them, and did keep it down without issue.

But will try some honey on a spoon and see what happens. It could also make a HUGE MESS on his fur, and I can't see forcing him into a bath in this condition, so it will be only if he is willing....will NOT force it down. LOL!!

Again, thanks for getting back to me. I am not going to give a "bonus" just yet - but I will. At the end of today, depending on how many more times I have to "bug ya". But again, I will send a bonus through the green button still there for me!! This is definintely something I am willing to pay for, to help my own peace of mind and knowing Duke is OK.
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

You are very welcome. If he does not take the honey do not worry about it he will be fine without it though he will probably lick it willingly for you. I understand why you gave the food we just worry about choking but you can always rub some sugar on the gums that way there is no swallowing needed.

 

I will be on until around 2 am I do take a break from 4-5 but I will be here is you need me, and you are not bugging me at all this is why I am here

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Hopefully by 2am, we are all fast asleep! I have my pain doctor appointment tomorrow to refill my meds - can't miss it or I will be in serious trouble. I am going to leave him at home unless there is REMARKABLE changes. It will be the first time in over 9 years that I will leave him at home without necessity - and that has been on my part (surgery, tests, etc) There have been less than 24 hours that we have been separated.

I know there will be a day that I have to accept the inevitable, but I am not ready for it yet.

He didn't take the honey willingly, but I did get some on his tongue when he was licking it off his gums.

We went out to walk again...he has a slight bit of diarrhea. Is that normal after a seizure, too? He had nice firm poops this morning, which of course were "already in the shoot" so to speak. LOL!!

Just wanting to make sure I am still OK to not take him. When I had gone too far for "his liking", he stopped and sat down.

He has never done that before either.

I don't want to push him, but I don't want to not know if something more is going on too.

Anything more you can offer with this information would be great. If this is all normal, I am OK with that too.
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

Yes diarrhea is normal many dogs loose bowel and bladder control during or right after a seizure so what you are seeing is normal. Do not push the walks he is still pretty out of and may do more sleeping then normal during the recovery period.

 

As long as he does not have another seizure today then I am not worried now should it happen again today he should be seen but he sounds like he is having the normal recovery phase.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OH, I can tell you without a doubt, if I suspect another seizure - and of course, can't know for 100% sure he had one since I didn't see it - we will be in the car as soon as I safely can.

But if this all sounds like "normal recovery", I will try to not worry and just let him be. I don't want to push him, but I want him to know I am here. I would normally sleep most of today, without the full day of meds I normally take (have taken them already...LOL...today is the worst day of the month!). If I do need to sleep - adrenaline is keeping from it for now - I will sleep next to him on his pillows. That way I will know if something else happens. Will probably sleep there tonight if I at all possibly can.

I just can't believe this is happening. Yesterday was my birthday, I am finally getting ready to have the dental work I so desperately need - getting a full top denture and lower partial...my meds and health issues have destroyed my teeth - have my first appointment on Thursday. We finally got the finances together (my parents did anyway) as there is NO HELP for someone my age - 42 - and disabled with no children. Over 65, or with children, I wouldn't have a care in the world. But otherwise, I am S.O.L. It's rather sad. Without my parents, I would literally not be able to eat in a year or less.

I have 2 other dogs - Boston Terriers - and lost another last year, and she was only 10. My male is 13 1/2, and my female will be 9 on Thursday. Jack is so healthy, thank God! Hearing and vision is going...but he is my "first baby". The first dog I got after I got sick...and he was my "only" for almost 4 years. Then I got Duke, and then I rescued by 2 girls from a puppy mill in rescue. I went through about 6 months of basically paralysis with Meghan...and finally had to let her go. I wasn't prepared for that - with my 3 Bostons being 2 years and 2 months apart each, it was supposed to give me that time to recover. Yet as the saying goes - and seems to be working for me again today - "We plan and God laughs!"

DUKE HAS TO BE OK! I am not prepared for anything else.

OK now I am just rambling and totally wasting your time and I am so sorry.

I will try to not take anymore of your time unless Duke needs you. From the bottom of my heart, thank you for everything!

Can you verify that the green "BONUS" button will be available to me until at least the end of the day???
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

You are very welcome and please you are not wasting my time at all sometimes its nice to have someone to just listen.

 

From what you have told me I do think that Duke is behaving as expected after a seizure and believe me he knows you are there for him.

 

The bonus button will be available but please do not feel obligated. I do what I do because it is my passion and truly who I am. I love that I can be of help to owners like yourself and their pets.

 

Please do not feel you are bothering me and please continue to let me know how he is doing and if you have any questions at all.

 

I am sorry you are having so many health problems but I am glad you have your parents and your amazing four legged family

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OK, Candy...

I have more disturbing information.

His temp is 105.2

I KNOW THIS IS NOT GOOD!

Is this still "normal"?? I checked the thermometer with my other 2 dogs - it's not wrong. I then checked it with a mercury therm - same result.

I am now panicing again!!
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

Ok no this is not normal and with a temp this high he really needs to be seen normal temp is 101-102.5. This could indicate infection and if the temp was this high earlier then it may have actually caused the seizure.If this were due to the seizure it should have come back down by now.

 

Even though he is acting better he needs to be seen and have this brought down safely. If you try to drop the temp to quickly you can actually cause very serious complications.

 

I would get him in and have him seen and some blood work done. I know you wanted to avoid this but at this point it would be best for him.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I want to mention that I know he runs "high" - I have worried about this before. I just looked at his paperwork, and he has two different readings of 103.3 - at a normal visit.

But I think you are right.

I have to take him in.
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

It is not uncommon to see temps at 103-103.5 even small amounts of stress or excitement like going to the vet can cause a mild elevation. We do not worry until you hit 104 but 105.2 is not normal in any dog.

 

Please let me know what the vet says I am more worried now.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
We are going in at 2:45 - 45 minutes from now. I will let you know.

I don't want to leave him. He won't understand!

Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.
He will be ok I promise .. They know when we are trying to help them
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Hey Candy...

Things are bad. Really bad. They don't think he is going to make it.

Shocky. Tacycardia. Can't even hear his heart because of his panting.

They said if he didn't take him right now, he might die on the table in front of me.

This is what they are doing

IV Fluids
Blood Panel
Urinalysis
Baytril Injection
Dexamethasone Injection
and keeping him overnight.t

I am so sick. And they have no support overnight, so he could die all alone and I won't even know til the morning.

He has no idea what could be wrong.

What could cause this - literally overnight?

He was FINE yesterday. We ate my birthday cupcake and went to bed at about 10pm. At 6:45am, he wasn't fine.

Any ideas? I thought I was doing the right thing...and this time, it might have been everything wrong.

I don't know what I will do if I lose him. I can't believe this is happening.
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

Were there any abnormalities in the blood work.

 

Is there any way he can be taken to an ER over night so someone is there if he gets into trouble.

 

He has not had any symptoms at all before this morning?

 

Did his stomach ever look bloated at all?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Vet just called. Blood work shows NOTHING! Everything straight down the middle normal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF?!?!?!

He is still not stable, but it's only been an hour or so.

But with bloodwork all normal, and NO INFECTION...what in the HELL is causing him to be so sick?!?!?!

He said maybe kidney infection, but doesn't know anymore. He asked if I wanted an ultra sound in the morning - I said to what, look for bloat? If he has that, he would be dead already...or if not already, by the morning for sure! And there is no vomiting at all, so that's not even realistic.

I don't know what an ultra sound would be looking for or show?

He said could be pancreatitis, or some other thing I have heard of.

When I saw that number, I almost had a heart attack. He said we aren't nearly out of the woods yet, but at least bloodwork is normal and he wanted me to know.

So I wanted you to know...
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Was typing as you were I guess. LOL!!

Bloat isn't even really realistic because of the lack of vomiting and the time. I mean, it's almost been 12 hours already...and he agreed. He did say that things were "somewhat tight back there" to his tech when he was palpating.

But nope...nothing before this am.

Been very healthy, all of my dogs are. I only lost Meghan because she did something to her back somehow and I finally had to let her go because she was in so much pain and basically was paralysed. She couldn't even get up to get food and water anymore - I was keeping her alive for me and it wasn't fair.

I feed my dogs well, haven't overvaccinated - my biggest pet peeve - and give them Ivermectin and keep them on Advantix.

I may not be healthy or take care of myself very well, but I do my dogs :-)

How could this happen - and him be SO SICK - overnight?

We had a cupcake last night for my birthday - they each got a bit of the frosting and tiny bit of cake...carrot and cream cheese. They had a bite of my pizza like every night. They each get a bite of everything I eat basically.

So they are DEFINITELY not "food sensitive". I know Duke doesn't do seafood - ate Long John Silvers one night and had diahrrea for 3 days! I felt so bad for him. He got a shrimp another time and same thing - so no seafood for him. Must be allergic.

But then, I am not a healthy eater - so it's not like I am giving them veggies. I can't chew anything so it's pasta, hamburgers, pizza, peanut butter toast. But when I say "bite", it's miniscule. A fingernail sized bite.

Any ideas?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
As far as him being alone...he did tell me that when they have a sick patient, they all seem to come in and check on them at some point. And if he is concerned, he will be back at 11pm to check on him.

Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

As long as someone checks on him the problem is if the consider him critical he needs to go to an ER it only takes a few minutes for something to go wrong or for another seizure to happen and if it happens at say 8 or 9 or even after 11 care may come to late.

 

Has he had any tick exposure ?

 

If this was pancreatitis there would have been elevations in the blood work that indicated that.

 

Did they say what the white cell count was?

 

Was it the back end of the stomach area that they said felt tight?

 

Did they do any x rays to look in the abdomen and chest?

 

This is not something you did this is a tough and I understand the vets confusion if the blood work is normal?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
He said white cell count wasn't high or low...

No x-rays at this point. Want to do an ultrasound but not sure what they would be looking for.

No tick exposure - use Advantix and living in Texas, I don't let them go anywhere becaues of the snakes.

He did also tell me that if they thought it was necessary, they would tell me to take him to 24 hour care...and he hasn't so far. I will ask again when I talk to him in probably 45 minutes or so.
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

Good I am glad he has considered the fact that he may need over night care.

 

With an ultrasound its likely he wants to get a look at the spleen as well as look for any internal abscess . This breed is prone not only to tumors on the spleen but on the heart as well. If blood work is normal it really is important that they get a look inside the abdomen.

 

Is there any way he got into bad food anywhere?

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Nope on the bad food. Being my Service Dog, he is basically with me 24/7 - and unless someone put something in our yard, it's not possible. And I would think that since they all go out together - and I watch them, if there was something thrown in, they would have all gone after it. And since my other 2 aren't sick - and they are 1/4 of his size - I kind of have to say no, not possible. Even if he "got it all" they would have been clustered around that area. You know what I mean? I just know them...LOL!! They all go with me until it gets too hot - and that happened a few weeks ago - but when I stop somewhere to let them out, and they find something "interesting", they all congregate together to check it out. It's something I have worried about - what if they ran across something before I could get to them, but we have been lucky. I don't take them anywhere "scary". The one time something "bad" could have happened was they found where someone was feeding a feral cat colony and they found the cat food. I was terrified that it might have been poisoned, but the person who takes care of them drove up shortly after. I was SO LUCKY! And then I went and bought her a case of cat food and a 7 pound bag. LOL!!

I mean, yeah...I may go pee myself while they are out - but they don't stay out. Ever. My dogs are truly pampered.

He asked if I wanted to schedule the ultrasound or just wait in the am and see how things are. I guess I should allow him to do it.

That's better than x-rays?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
BTW - to clarify - when I said "And that happened a few weeks ago" I meant it got too hot for Jack and Hannah to go with me. NOT the cat food thing. And he wasn't involved - just my 3 little ones. He was still walking me across the grass...LOL!! Plus, that was a couple of years ago!
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

Ok

Yes more costly then x rays but much better as far as letting the vet see things much clearer.

 

I would do it only because the blood work was normal.

 

This really has me stumped as well.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I am counting the minutes until I can call. I don't want to bother them - and if it wasn't only 20 more minutes, I would have to break down.

I just need to hear him say "I think we are past the 'he might not make it stage'" and I will be able to breathe.

If I don't hear him say that, I am going to get him and taking him somewhere overnight.

Will they take his IV out if I move him or what?
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

No the will leave the IV in place but they will unhook the fluids and place a wrap over the IV until you get him to the ER.

I know in your situation financing this can be a concern. Here is a program that helps with medical care for service dogs but the vet has to apply for it you may want to check it out

International Association of Assistance Dog Partners has established an emergency veterinary fund to provide financial aid to US IAADP Partner Members whose assistance dogs require high cost veterinary intervention beyond their ability to pay. This is a grant and ONLY the Veterinarian can initiate the request for a grant. Email vcp-grant@iaadp.org

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I was a member of IAADP, but I didn't pay my dues so I let my membership lapse. I am so mad at myself! But thank you so much for looking that up for me...you really have gone above and beyond Candy!

I just got off the phone with the vet tech. She said that the doctor had just gone home but asked her to ask me if I wanted him to call me when he went back tonight - no matter how late it was. I said uuummm....YES!!! LOL!!

I said do I need to come get him and take him to have support? She said no.

His fever is down to 102.3. He is more alert and they took him out to go potty and he walked by himself. He wasn't doing that the last time I saw him.

I said do you think I might lose him still? She said no. I said did you think I was going to lose him? She said yes.

So things must have improved a lot in the 2+ hours with the antibiotics and fluids.

But he was drinking - a lot - while he was here, so not sure how he could be dehydrated?

I am cautiously optimistic and am no longer holding my breath. I haven't been able to stop crying yet...but hopefully the tears will run out soon.

My mom said we can do the ultrasound in the morning. I paid for his care so far - maxxed out my credit card and all the money in my bank account...and she said they will spend another $1000. We don't have it but he is my world and we aren't ready to let him go.

Hopefully it won't take that...but at least they are willing to help me.

I truly am so lucky.

Candy, I won't bother you anymore tonight...but I will let you know what's going on once I know something in the morning. OK?

And I will send some extra money for your time...not as much as I was planning on sending, but something.

But will it close the case if I send a bonus?
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

I really wonder if all the blood work and cbc is normal if he was seizing for some time before you got up and that is what elevated that temp so much. It is also possible he had several seizures.

 

Look at care credit before you put anymore on a credit card. This is a low to no interest credit card that can be used for vet care. The interest depends on how many months you take to pay it back.

You can apply right on line and get approved for use you do not have to wait for approval.

www.carecredit.com

 

Please keep me posted I am glad to hear he is better

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
We got the carecredit for my dental work...LOL!!

I am going to ask him about the seizure thing in the morning - or tonight, depending on if I am asleep when he calls or not. I might forget...

I mentioned it of course when he asked me what was going on...but then once he started to examine him, all of that went out the window to keep him alive.

But why a seizure now? From what? And one or more SO SERIOUS to cause that drastic outcome...for no reason?

I guess we have to wait for the ultrasound and go from there.

So you think it could be his spleen?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
You know something else...everything I am reading about shock says "pale gums".

His NEVER were! They remained bright pink.

I did notice right before I left that on his bottom gumline was a mucus that was white and almost gluelike - sooooo sticky and stringy.

But again...still pink!

That tell you anything?
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

The spleen is possible. If all blood work came back normal with no indicators of what may have caused a seizure then unfortunately you may be looking at a problem in the brain.

 

 

Here is some other agencies that another expert sent that may help

 

The Goldstock Fund - The Goldstock Fund's mission is to provide funds to rescue organizations or individuals to pay for transportation, boarding, evaluations and medical costs of golden retrievers and golden hearted dogs taken into rescue. The Goldstock Fund also provides educational information and materials to rescues and the public.

http://www.goldstockfund.org/tgf/index.html

 

 

Brown Dog Foundation - At Brown Dog Foundation it is their mission to offer pet owners in temporary financial crisis an alternative to euthanasia when their pet faces a treatable life-threatening condition in order to restore the quality of life for pet and owner.

http://www.browndogfoundation.org/home

 

 

Jake Brady Memorial Fund - The Jake Brady Memorial Fund is dedicated to providing financial support to companion animals in need for the prevention and treatment of major health ailments. Ensuring the ability to receive quality treatment and provide for the well being of companion animals will always be our primary objective.

http://www.myjakebrady.com/index.shtml

 

The Pet Fund - The Pet Fund is a registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit association that provides financial assistance to owners of domestic animals who need veterinary care. Often animals are put down or suffer needlessly because their owners cannot afford expensive surgery or medical treatment. Companion animal owners must often make the difficult decision to put an animal down or neglect medical needs because of the costs involved.

http://www.thepetfund.com/

 

Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

In most cases shock causes white gums so that is confusing to me as well. You had mentioned earlier when we first started talking that his gums were nice and pink so really that was not a concern.

 

The spleen really does not normally cause a seizure but it is possible. The more I hear the more I do wonder if this high temp was just a result of the seizure especially if he tends to run high normally. Once they got the fever down he would start doing much better.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Exactly! I kept looking at his gums like every 20 minutes...because I have always heard that the gums are such a major sign of disstress!!

But he clearly was in it...no doubt about that. I am sitting here in what feels like an empty house because he was!!

I am just SO GLAD I thought to ask my neighbor if he had a thermometer. He was just so hot and wouldn't stop panting.

And then the minute I gave you the result...you didn't waiver - said go. Now! So I did.

I am thankful to both of you for that.

Leave it to Duke to confuse the heck out of everyone. LOL!! Only a dog of mine could do this, I swear

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Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

I am just glad I was here to help and we were able to get him care as soon as he told us he needed it.

 

Please continue to keep me posted on how he is doing. If you hear anything tonight I will be on.

 

He sounds like a strong boy and hopefully the worst has passed. He is very lucky to have such an observant mom

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Good Morning, Candy!!

Heard from the vet this morning - he said he came in every few hours last night to check on him, but didn't want to worry me unnecessarily since he was doing fine. I wanted to tell him his LACK of calling had me terrified...but I held my tongue out of respect. He sounded exhausted!!

His temp is 102.3...still on fluids and is worried when taking him off it might spike, so we have to be cautious.

He said he is still weak, but he said that is to be expected...he went through a lot!

The ultrasound will be done today...to rule out anything more.

Fever could have caused the seizure...seizure could have caused the fever. Unknown and probably will remain unknown unless the ultrasound reveals something.

He did caution me...and I am now crying again. That the fever could have caused some brain injury. He might not be the same dog. Dementia or something.

Which means retirement. I can't beleive this, but I am not going to give in. I told myself and prayed as much as I mentally could that he would be OK - and he is.

I could use yours, if you are up to it.

I am going to my doctor at 9am, and then after picking up my meds will be going to visit with him. Probably won't have the ultrasound yet...but won't know for sure until he talks to her later this morning. But I will get to visit with him.

He said his tail is wagging, but he is weak. But he also needs his nails clipped and his feathers on his feet done...which makes it hard for him on slick floors - and the vet's floors are MUCH slicker than say Walgreens, where we are all the time. Wags can't ahve them that slick for fear of falls. The vet has them that slick to appear clean.

At least, that is what I am telling myself.

Staying positive. Or else I will fall apart and won't be able to get to my own doctor's appointment, and if I don't go...I will end up in the hospital myself later today from morphine withdrawl. And that won't do either of us any good.

I woke myself up screaming "GOOFY...NO!!" Goofy is one of his nicknames. Had Jack and Hannah terrified, too. Bad dream.

Wasn't there - left him with friends to go out of town and he got lost. It was a movie about him...and the search. It was me watching it with others - while at the same time "starring in it" - and when a puppy showed up at the end, a child watching the movie screamed out "DUKE" and the narrator of the movie said to the child - still in the movie answering to the audience (it's a dream!!!) - said no, not Duke. Duke was found a couple of miles away, dead from a concussion. This is his grandson. And then I screamed "in the movie/dream" - and apparently, in real life "GOOFY, NO!!!"

Now, tell me that wasn't prophetic. Duke never had pups, so it's not possible. But tell me that "concussion" part isn't his brain damage and this means retirement and a new puppy! He doesn't deserve that. He is such a good boy and helps me so much. I know the time is coming eventually. I am nothing if not realistic (OK, did those words just come out of my fingers while asking you if my dream wasn't "prophetic" LOL) And I know they can't work forever. But he is still young-ish. He has a couple more years, God Willing.

I know...silly. But it was soooooooooo real. I mean, I can tell you the people I was with (friends from high school) places we were (near my hometown in California), conversations we had ("What is old Tracy vs. new Tracy" and explaining the different areas to a friend that moved away) Tracy was a few towns over, but was booming before I left and some friends had moved out there.

I had to convince myself that wasn't when he had actually died. And I was shaking and sick for about 20 minutes. Luckily, that wasn't until about 5am, and the vet called me about 6am...so I didn't have to wait too long.

Just had to share my whole night with ya.

Will let you know once I know something more. Probably after my visit and then again once I know about the ultrasound.

Duke needs our good thoughts, vibes, prayers...whatever. Pray for us that it's nothing. And that he is not hurt from the fever. I will never forgive myself...if I waited too long. Not that this is about me...at all!!! But how can I not?? I needed him to be OK, and all of my dogs in the past have been if I have taken them to the vet and spent money unnecessarily, or if I haven't and "waited". What if this is the time that it wasn't. The time when it was the MOST IMPORTANT!!!



Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Oh yeah....wanted to ask.

If he had a Thyroid problem, would that have popped up on the bloodwork? He did mention "sending it out". I said you can't do it inhouse? Meaning we won't know for an extended time? He said oh no, they do inhouse but oftentimes, likes to send out too. I don't know if that is included in the cost he already charged me or not.

Or if the "sending out" would be more thourough, including Thyroid, etc.

I will ask myself in a few hours, just wanting to see if you are around if you could let me know?
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

Sorry I was off line when you responded I worked really late last night.

I have been saying prayers for Duck so know that he has help there.

 

The thyroid test is a separate test from most blood panels but I am sure they will check it with the blood they are sending out.

I think sending it out is the best plan. It's good to do it in house but even better to double check with the lab.

 

I would ask them if they have done a thyroid test specifically.

 

Another thing I wanted to mention. I spoke to one of my senior dr's last night and reviewed everything we talked about just to see if he had any ideas. He thinks the ultra sound is needed and suggested the thyroid. He too wondered if Duke may have had a cluster seizure (more then one) and another thing I let slip from my mind yesterday is that the excessive panting may have contributed to the elevated temp.

 

Please keep me posted and please stop blaming yourself you asked for help as you as you knew something was wrong and as soon as he showed us he was in trouble you got him in.

 

Please keep me posted on how things are going.

Candy

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I just got home.

The vet is being positive...said he is so much better.

No, he isn't. That wasn't Duke. I mean, it was his body...but he isn't in there.

He didn't even recognize me.

They keep saying that as soon as they cut his nails, he won't be having such a hard time getting up on the "slick surface". Except Duke is VERY USED to slick surfaces. It's not his nails. He is almost lame. Once he is up, he is stumbling.

He is now having some sort of coughing or something - and they are going to do chest x-rays.

He said it may be pneumonia?

But again, wouldn't blood work have shown that?

I won't make him live like this...I will let him go. It's not fair.

I don't know if he will come back from this. I can hardly believe I am even typing these words.

But the vet said that yes, they will have a T4 done...but that wouldn't have caused the fever.

He is looking for cancer, spleen or pancreaus and heart and then x-rays for lungs.

My baby boy was not looking good. He didn't look any better to me today than when I left him yesterday.

I don't know what to do. Only thing I can do of course is wait.
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

NO the thyroid will not cause fever but will cause seizures which can cause the fever.

 

That is why I mentioned the fact that this breed is prone to both spleen and heart tumors so I am glad they are looking at that.

 

What state do you live in?

 

Is there anyway he got a tick in the last 6 months?

 

 

I am sorry I wish I had some answers for you I can only imagine how hard this is for you because the wait is stressing me as well.

 

Ask if they are doing a blood parasite panel, and a tick panel? Is meningitis a possibility this does cause fever seizures and stumbling and can develop suddenly.

Please read this

http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Health-Center/Brain-Spinal-Cord-Nerve-Disorders/Meningitis/Symptoms.aspx

 

I hope you get some results from the ultrasound soon but I would ask about the blood parasite, tick panel and Meningitis

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Liver cancer - 5x7cm mass.

I am going at 2:15 to let him go.

I can't believe this is happening.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Just got home.

Duke's lungs were filled with fluid/blood and he had started vomiting blood. They suspect the cancer had spread to his lungs, but with so much fluid, they couldn't tell for sure.

He was so much sicker than I even realized.

I have no idea how he worked for me, so effortlessly, while being so sick.

He was the best...and now he's gone, and not hurting anymore.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
In case you were curious...it was hemangiosarcoma. I didn't ask, but because he was shaved on his tummy, I assume they did a needle aspiration.

Maybe they can tell without that, I don't know. But there was no question that he had it, according to my vet. I said do I need to take him to an oncologist to be confirmed, and he said no. It definitely was. Maybe they could tell just by the ultrasound. Maybe they shaved him for that.

But with the vomiting of blood, and not knowing who I was...and he was hurting. Bad. Couldn't lay on his sides, and that was how he always laid. I assume that was from the fluid/blood in his lungs?

And his tummy was hurting too. When I tried feeling around, he would make whimpering sounds today.

Can this really have come on really quickly and maybe he wasn't really sick until yesterday?

Or has he been sick for awhile and just didn't let me know?
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

OH NO I am so sorry.

 

Hemangiosarcoma's are the tumor I was worried about on the heart and or spleen so unfortunately I am not that surprised that they found this.

 

This do not happen suddenly but the symptoms and the bleeding from these tumors does happen suddenly. In most cases we have no idea they are there until something like this happens.

 

I wish I could say something that would take the pain away , please just know that there is nothing more you could have done. There is nothing you missed so please do not blame yourself in any way.

 

Here is a site I would like you to look at . You can converse with other pet owners who are also experiencing this loss and even design a special memorial page for Duke.

 

Please know that I am always here

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Hey Candy...

I just wanted to let you know that we are all doing OK. Jack and Hannah were a bit depressed for a few days - Hannah is taking longer to "bounce back" than Jack and I.

The reason I am doing OK is because of a new addition to our family - and also Hannah's reluctance to accept it!! LOL!!

Rhett - my new Golden Retriever puppy - is truly going so very far to help this healing process.

I got his remains back yesterday, and we had a little service for Duke. I got 5 balloons - a red one from me, 3 yellow ones from the Kids, and a white one from my mom and dad. We took his box out to a park, I told him that he was the perfect dog and is no longer hurting, and let the balloons go. I did this when I got Meghan back, too...and it helps me let the pain go.

Rhett had his first big training day on Sunday - went to Walgreens, Target and CVS. He sits in the front of the cart while I shop and learns what it's like to be in those surroundings. It's how I acclimated Duke as well - both were in a store before they ever came home with me. He was such a good boy...and is also already potty trained! The breeder did an AMAZING job!!!

He's young...younger than I would normally like...but the breeder was so comfortable with me taking him, and she said it would help him only bond with me more, and that I will imprint on him even stronger.

He turned 7 weeks old on Sunday, and I got him Friday night. He's so smart, and I am truly so blessed to have been able to find him and help the healing process.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know what was happening on our end. Hope you are doing well...
Brenda, Rhett, Jack and Hannah
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

I am so glad everyone is doing well and I am sure duke was looking down on all of you when you had his ceremony.

 

I am so glad you were able to open your heart so soon to a new pup you are truly amazing and they are all so lucky to have you.

 

Rhett sound wonderful and I am sure you will do great with him. He will never take Dukes place but will have his own special place in everyones heart.

 

Thank you so so much for the update I have thought of you many times since we last spoke.

 

Please keep me posted from time to time and let me know how things are going.

 

Best Wishes

Candy

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Hi there, Candy

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I wanted to ask you a question...and don't know if you are willing to answer it here or not. If not, I will open a new one - but it's a rather quick one, that shouldn't require much on your part or follow up. Of course, we ARE talking about ME - so take that with a grain of salt. HAHAHA!!

OK...so Rhett, my new puppy, is doing GREAT! He is amazing...so smart...and he's HUGE!!! I am so lucky...Duke was definitely looking out for me when I got him.

I had a little service for Duke when I got his ashes back. I got helium balloons from me, my other 3 Kids, and my Mom and Dad. We went out to the park behind my house, and I took his ashes and told him what an amazing dog he was...and let the balloons go. I did this when I lost Meghan as well, and it helped so much. I told the balloons to take the grief away with them - and it works for me. May be silly, but it really does help.

And of course, Rhett helps fill that empty place in my heart and my life. Duke OBVIOUSLY didn't want me to be without help...he worked so hard, until he was gone. I know this cancer is fast, and there are little to no signs - but I was with him 24/7. And as far as it had progressed, I KNOW he was suffering. But he was the best, most loyal boy and wanted to make sure I was OK at all times. He did things for me I could have never trained...he just learned them by being with me. I know he was OK with me getting Rhett so quickly. Plus, I had to think about the places I visit...they are used to seeing me with a dog. If all of a sudden, I am showing up repeatedly without one, when I did eventually get another one they could EASILY refuse me given precedence that I was fine without. And while it's been difficult not having the help on top of training Rhett, it's working. I don't know how - sheer will and determination could be the only reason - but the stores have been fantastic.

Here is my question. It's about shots.

I have read HUNDREDS of links about them, but I am still a bit confused. I don't know if this is a case of "old school thinking" still having a strong hold, or if many people don't know about this or if I am reading it wrong.

So I read that the Parvo part of the 5 way / 7 way vaccines have "high titer" - meaning they are higher than they used to be, and are able to break the Maternal Antibodies barrier and take hold.

OK...so here's the story. My breeder's vet gives the FIRST shot at 4 1/2 weeks old. I assume he knows the "high titer" is breaking the barrier to give some immunity...or else why do it? EVERYTHING I read says 6 weeks first shot. If it wasn't to give the pup some extra help and try to prevent Parvo - for the most part - why do it so early?

And then, I gave him another shot at 7 weeks and again at 10 1/2 weeks.

That was on Wednesday.

Now...for the "caveat" if you will.

My neighbor has a wolf hybrid pup - less than a year old, not sure exactly how old. My landlord a few weeks ago was coming over to pick up the rent. I was telling him what happened to Duke, and since we were "talking dogs", he asked me how Monster was (Monster is my neighbor's dog). I said I didn't know anything was wrong - he said yeah, he was really sick. I said "MY GOD, I hope it's not Parvo!"

I had just brought Rhett home - and had let him play with my OTHER neighbor's dogs out on my front porch. But the neighbors also walk out there, and MY dogs run all over the place out there and so do I - which means I would have brought it into my home.

My landlord said "No, I think he ate something". I breathed again. LOL!!

Then I was out with him talking, and Monster's owner came out to give him his rent too. I asked how Monster was - not because I was "fishing", but because I was concerned someone's dog was sick. He said he was better, but HE HAD BEEN TREATED FOR PARVO!!!

I almost threw up...right then and there. OH MY GOD!!!

Not only was I a basket case...I was FURIOUS!! It's common curtosy that if your dog gets Parvo - such a HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS AND KILLER virus - you tell your neighbors, who ALL have dogs!!! But I guess that didn't enter his mind. And I try not to think about that Duke might have gotten it, due to his immune system being so weakend with the cancer - his vet says no, he had shots and he never had diahrea or vomited. But I still wonder....anyway, I digress.

So for the next week, I was truly freaking out. Watched Rhett like a hawk. Every poop he made, the one time he threw up I wanted to cry (it was a chunk of something he ate...LOL!!)

But he is fine. And I am going to assume that first puppy shot at 4 1/2 weeks did in fact save him.

So here is my question....is that correct thinking?

And now that he has in fact had 3 shots - is it safe for me to take him OTHER places. Now of course by "other places", I don't mean regular places - he already goes everywhere I go. He rides in the cart...not walking, so he isn't exposed to much...but it's how I trained Duke and I am doing the same with Rhett. He is doing great, and I know he is going to be an amazing Service Dog.

But like parks and stuff - not necessarily "dog" parks, but other parks and places?

I know he is still young - will be 11 weeks on this coming Sunday. But he HAS had 3 series of shots.

Sorry this was so long...but I wanted to give you all of the details - and let's admit it, if I didn't write a long message, you might not think that it was me! hehehe!!!

And if you can answer this here...if the green button is still active, I can send a bit of money to you here. I don't have much...still so far behind after spending all I had on Duke. But I could send a little bit...

Thanks in advance!
Brenda, Rhett - and Jack and Hannah, too
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OOPS!!!! Sorry I repeated myself a bit...I didn't realize I had sent you such a detailed update...though not sure why I didn't remember. LOL!! But it was a difficult time in my life, so not remembering is I guess to be expected.

Anyway...sorry about that...
Bren
Expert:  Candy replied 3 years ago.

do not apologize for anything I told you I would be here if you needed me

 

Sorry for the delay I was off when you wrote in. I am so glad to hear that Rhett is doing well.

Many breeders will vaccinate their pups at 4 weeks and that is to try to lower the risk of parvo which happens often in breeding facilities.

 

I know Rhett has had 3 sets of vaccines but I would not take him to parks or other areas until he has the 4th set including Rabies.

Normally when the breeder gives the first shot so young we still do the other 3 which means the pup then has 4 sets of vaccines.

 

I know you are ready to take him out to some new places but I just would not take the risk and would have the 4 th set of vaccines done especially since the neighbors dog had parvo. Make sure everyone is aware that parvo can live in the soil for up to 6 months so I would like to see Rhett have some extra protection.

 

Please keep me posted

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