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NancyH
NancyH, Dog Expert:Rescue, Train,Breed,Care
Category: Dog
Satisfied Customers: 31957
Experience:  30+ yrs dog home vet care & nursing, rescue, behavior&training, responsible show breeding, genetics
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folic acid in pregnant dogs, fetal development

Customer Question

decreaced folic acid in pregnant dogs and chances of cleft palate in puppy
Submitted: 7 years ago.
Category: Dog
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
I have personally found the supplementing (but not over doing) folic acid during pregnancy helps to end cleft palate and other midline closure issues commonly seen in my breed. This site has a little info as you scroll down to objective #4
http://publications.royalcanin.com/renvoie.asp?type=1&cid=135706&id=102506&com=4&animal=0&lang=2&session=2070357
and here
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/nzva/nzvj/1997/00000045/00000006/art00009
There is strong suspicion overdoing vitamin A can cause cleft palates too such as overdoing liver as a supplement. You can read about this here
http://www.provet.co.uk/health/diseases/cleftpalate.htm
Hope this helps you!
NancyH, Dog Expert:Rescue, Train,Breed,Care
Category: Dog
Satisfied Customers: 31957
Experience: 30+ yrs dog home vet care & nursing, rescue, behavior&training, responsible show breeding, genetics
NancyH and other Dog Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
so in your opion decreased folic acid in pregnant dogs could cause cleft palte in developing puppies?
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
Yes I am because I've seen the cleft palate issue go away when supplementing dams with folic acid and so have other breeders I know who tried it.
I can't say it works like that in every breed but the people I know in the short faced breeds that use folic acid seem to be doing lots better with few or no midline closure issues.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
thank you here is my story
I have a miniature poodle 2 years old First of Jan I started feeding her Iams Select bite to soak dry puppy chow in so she would eat it. As I had her bred Jan 5th & 6th. She received this food 3 times a day. I also have 2 other dogs miniature poodles who ate the same dog food but not as much.
March 1st, 2007 had a litter of pups 5 days early. March 2nd 1 puppy not doing so well bottle feed it but milk coming out of it nose, puppy died March 3rd. 2nd puppy going bad bottle feed and let nurse off mom Kept it alive till March 5th am took it to the vet and vet says it had cleft palet. 1/3 of back upper mouth gone. March 16 2007 dog food recall, stopped feeding my mommy dog the food, March 18th 2007 Wal-Mart in Auburn WA still had the food on the shelf. March 21st 2007 took mommy dog to vet not feeling well & lethargic. Blood drawn Kidney levels slightly elevated. Call to FDA and told them the about story also called Iams and told them above story. FDA called me back and said that the poison would deplete folic acid levels a vit need in pregnancy and lactating mothers, depleted folic acid would cause premature birth, Puppies due March 6-7th born March 1st, and would cause cleft palet, what second puppy died from, I have been writing everyone and nobody believes me about the folic acid. My concern is the puppies going to be ok later? Skip a generation and these pups deformed? How many new born pups died and the owners where unaware?
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Kathie
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
Its impossible to count the pups that people didn't know were impacted during pregnancy.
But Aminopterin is known to be a folic acid inhibitor and that is the poison found in the food.
If some pups had no cleft palate they should be fine if no other midline closure issues appear (such as heart defects) as they grow.
This is a congenital defect vs a hereditary one. Congenital means something happened to the growing fetus during pregnancy vs genetic meaning the DNA code caused it.
I don't think the pups were too early - I commonly have toy pups born on day 58 of pregnancy.
I do think that some of the pups were impacted by the toxins in the food from what you have said.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Thank you very much
Kathie
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
Youare welcome - hope the pup survives for you!
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
thank you
Email me after Fri I will let you know the results of moms kidney testXXX@XXXXXX.XXX
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
You can come back here and reply on the question with the info if you want or use the PM function here to send a PM to nholmes to let me know. Hope she recovers OK!
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
thank you
Kathie
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
no thank you - I'd like to hear what they have to tell you :)
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Me too seems like they are keeping the folic acid depletion quiet. I have e-mail all the news stations. I have found it in black and white on line. I think there is a bigger cover up!!!
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
I suspect its really that the majority of pets are spayed or neutered not breeding dogs so its just not anything they were thinking much about but this is a peak breeding season for animals.
You might want to call the recall info number
http://www.menufoods.com/recall/index.html
1-866-895-2708
and talk to them about this.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
I did they told me to have all the pups test and the vet send documentation regaured the 2nd puppy that died. the first one didnt go to the vet just expected it since it was a lagre littler 7....6 males 1 female to of the males died... I told them what FDA told me. Someone from Iams is suppost to call me in 2-3 weeks. I faxed them my vet bills and lab results and documentation and a package of food. They are very much aware, just not saying anything
Kathie
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
I think they would like the story to go away!
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
I am sure they do. I am waiting for a lawyer to call me back regaurding the class action law suit. He has been on the local news several times I think after a few lawyers hear the story may be it will get out.
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
Or you can write the people on this blog
http://petsitusa.com/blog/?p=210
to push the info out further
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
I will and I also put it on Craiglist all the poodle sites I belong to telling everyone I know.
I think another pup maybe going bad,not quit keeping up with the others is tireing too easy. Thinking ? heart? will take to the vet if he seems worse as the day goes on
Kathie
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
You might bring it to the vet now - or try a drop of Karo or pancake syrup - sometimes that little energy boost helps them keep going.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Reply to Nancy Holmes's Post: Just got back from the vet folic acid level 1.2 is suppost to be 6.2 to 10.0 somethinig like that had to take a pup to the vet last night hypoglycemia mom quit making milk so now hand feeding 5 pups Just to let you know
Kathie
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
I've had good luck using goats milk to hand feed. I usually do a daily dose of liquid vitamins along with the goats milk.
www.meyenberg.com may help you locate some if the pups do not thrive on the artificial formula.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
right now we are giving artifiacal formula dog food"oh wow" and baby rice cereal they are about 16 to 18 oz so I am not sure how much is too much or how much is not enough. Trial and error?
Should get labs for kidney draw today in am wish us luck
thankl you
Kathie
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
This site has the daily calories per pound which you split into multiple feedings so the total amount of calories is given per day
http://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_breeding/steps_17.cfm
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
http://www.570news.com/news/national/article.jsp?content=n033039A
says that its melanine that was in the food not the rat poison previously suspected.
Just thought you should know!
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Reply to Nancy Holmes's Post: I got the link thank you. I read tonight that the NEW YORK lab still stands by the rat poison. I dont think anyone knows. Hey pups are doing find and mom is getting some milk to keep them going though the night so I dont have to get up every 2-3 hours. I did go to part time at work though. Too much stress and puppy raising
Kathie
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
Glad pups and mom are doing fine!
People have no idea how hard puppy raising can be!
If we charged by the time put in a lot of pups would be a million dollars each!
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
So ture
Kathie
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
So true
Kathie
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Jeez is it never going to stop? All of my dogs eat ol'roy treat jerky and beef sticks so far mine isnt on the recall. Rosie isnt feeling well tonight 2 pups went hypoglycemic on me very little milk. I am afraid to give them any dog food we cooked chicken and pureed it for them to night......wonder if baby food is safe?
Thank you
Kathie
Expert:  NancyH replied 7 years ago.
Hopefully the baby food is safe.
The pups are still young enough to benefit from goats milk and it will help Rosie produce more milk too.
You can add some liquid puppy vitamins to the meat puree if they are eating that for you or give each pup a dose.

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