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Jay
Jay, Nissan Technician
Category: Nissan
Satisfied Customers: 15057
Experience:  20+yrs experience with Nissan & Infiniti Trained & Certified.Currently still working for Dealer
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2003 Nissan Sentra: noid light..cylinder) while cranking..good spark

Resolved Question:

I have a 2003 Nissan Sentra that will not start. Noid light will flash one time (Any cylinder) while cranking and that is it. As for spark I get a good spark on #3 and #4, but only one or two flashes on cylinders #1 and #2.
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Nissan
Expert:  Jay replied 3 years ago.

Jay :

Hello and thank you for using JustAnswer.com

Jay :

How many miles on the car and do you know if you have any codes?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

144k and no codes.

Jay :

So the noid light flashes only one time and it won't flash any more after that?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Correct.

Jay :

Did you try to see if the car would run on starting fluid?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Have not tried starting fluid, but did try it on a can of EFI cleaner and still nothing. Don't know if this is against the rules here or not, but could I call you on the phone. I work for a Toyota dealer and got stuck with this thing, there's more to the story! If not I can type it all out here no problem.

Jay :

Sorry, personal contact is against our terms and services. Can you try to let me know more of this story?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Here goes. The vehicle came in for a no start, pushed it in and checked the basics. Pulled the plugs and found them wet, checked for spark on the #1 cylinder and had it. Told the other Tech who was with me to crank it while I took a sample of the fuel (We've seen a lot of water in fuel here). When I unhooked the fuel line and had him crank it the vehicle starts, and continues to run for 5-10 seconds before I tell him to cut it off because my jar is filled to the rim. Turn vehicle off and pull it outside to let it set overnight (Was closing time). Next day go out and start it up. Cranks for 5 seconds or so and starts but barely runs then quits, after a few times I finally get it to go. Wasn't running to good so tried to pull it in as quickly as I could before it stalled out. Once in the shop popped the hood and smelled burning antifreeze. Pull the radiator cap off and man does it have some pressure (Car only ran 20 seconds or so). Crank it with the cap off and it blows antifreeze up over the hood. I tell them it needs a headgasket to start with. Confirmed headgasket with CO2 tester. Removed the cylinder head and gasket is really broken between #2 and #3 and starting to go between #1 and #2 as well as #3 and #4. Checked head and block and put back together. Now stuck at no start with the symptoms I first described. I've went back and checked wiring, and connectors, valve timing, everything I can think of. Not to sure if I caused the problem somewhere or if the original no start problem is now this bigger problem. I have tried another ECM, scoped the cam and crank sensors right at the ECM. Checked power and grounds right at the ECM and more. To me it acts like a Toyota with a immobiliser key issue. When you first crank it for just a fraction of a second it sounds like it is going to go (Kind of Sputters) then it just cranks. I see no security light up in the dash, and also called the local Nissan dealer and had them run the VIN to see if this had chip key. Was told no.

Jay :

The key head is round not square right?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

No the key is square. Kind of a redish brown color with Nissan on it.

Jay :

That is the Valet key

Jay :

Well lets start by checking your timing and make sure that is right. Cause if that is off, that could explain why the Ecm only sends the one signal, and doesn't after that

Jay :

I can say this, it's very easy to set the timing off and you won't get a code unless it runs

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

What

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Sorry about that I hit enter

Jay :

Pop that side cover off and put the engine on TDC and check you cams.

Jay :

The cam lobes should be in this location if your at TDC, don't look at the top marks. That is for a Altima

Jay :

But the lob locations should be the same

Jay :

I will be back in about 10 to 15 mins;

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

It's almost 8 o'clock here and there about to kick me out. Will you be available tomorrow during the day?

Jay :

I am not on during the day. I am here evenings 7 pm till 10 pm EST.

Jay :

Where are you located?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

virginia

Jay :

I am in NJ, so we are on the same time zone

Jay :

I can try to log in early tomorrow around 5:30 pm to help ya

Jay :

after work if you know what I mean. During work is tough. Especially if you have work.

Jay :

These days we have been up an down

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

one last quick question. If that chain is off just one tooth will that prevent it from starting. I know on Toyota's it will still start, but will set a cam corrolation code right away.

Jay :

1 tooth, no, it would start.

Jay :

two, or more, it may not

Jay :

If you were 1 tooth off, you would get a intake timing code

Jay :

but it would run

Jay :

fixed a ton of them from other techs

Jay :

That is why I say it's easy to screw up the timing

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

I marked the chain to the gears before I took it off, and put it back where i took it off.

Jay :

I really almost don't look at the front cam pins, I look more at the cam lobes

Jay :

Well it's easy enough to double check. the valve cover pops of in what 2 mins?

Jay :

then just turn the engine manually and put it at TDC

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

I did check the timing this morning before anything else and it still looked on to me, but I'm not familiar with Nissan so I may be looking wrong.

Jay :

and see where you cam lobes are pointing

Jay :

Look that the front lobes closest to the front of the engine

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Hell I'm standing here let me just pull it off and see. Give me 10 to 15 minutes.

Jay :

That one image where i crossed off the timing marks.

Jay :

hehe

Jay :

ok

Jay :

Shouldn't take you that long..hehe

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

What's TDC on the crankpulley the red mark or the one after?

Jay :

grr

Jay :

brain fart

Jay :

I think it's the red mark, remove the spark plug for number one and just use a long screw driver

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

If I go off your first picture I'm on the money. As for the lobes they look good to me as well. The tip of each first lobe is point just about the head where the valve cover gasket goes.

Jay :

That sounds good

Jay :

the lobes should be pointing not straight out, but slightly out.

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Well if i look at your cam lobe picture what I notice is that my pin in the intake cam is not in that position. My intake cam pin is slightly below the timing cover (Barely), but the lobe itself looks good. Nissan really needs to make this easier

Jay :

Yeah I know

Jay :

I have to help all the kids with there timing cause the manual is so poor

Jay :

The lobes should be pointing out pretty much evenly

Jay :

correct?

Jay :

It sounds so far like the timing is good.

Jay :

I will try to get home early tomorrow and catch up with you and see if we can figure this out.

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Each lobe is about 3/8 of a inch about the cylinder head gasket surface.

Jay :

Unless you still have time

Jay :

That sounds about right

Jay :

those are the first lobes towards the chain right?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Yes first lobes, #1 cylinder. Got any other ideas off the top of your head.

Jay :

Just to be sure, you verified your at TDC with a long screw driver in the cylinder right?

Jay :

or did you just go by the crank mark?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Yes I did.

Jay :

then that's it

Jay :

Sounds like your timing is good

Jay :

The next is to make sure you have all your grounds tight off the harness

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

The ones on the back of the intake?

Jay :

On the back of the intake if I remember right there is two 10 mm bolts

Jay :

that have 2 grounds

Jay :

yeah

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Checked about 10 times already.

Jay :

hehe

Jay :

ok

Jay :

Trying to think of what else

Jay :

cam sensor wasn't damaged was it?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Trust me I've been thinking since 11:00 this morning. I've had a few Toyota's over the last 18 years here at this dealership, but this one is getting to me!!

Jay :

I hear ya

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Cam sensor wasn't broke but put a new one in anyway along with a new crank sensor.

Jay :

You still have the original ones?

Jay :

You didn't replace them with after market did you?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Yes, but I broke the crank sensor getting it out. Used only genuine Nissan parts my man!!

Jay :

You said the head gasket was blown, which I do believe, but it's a metal head gasket, how did you see where it was blown between 3 and 4?

Jay :

Cool, just making sure the after market parts don't have use chasing our tail

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Have the gasket here in front of me. You can clearly see where one layer of the two is split between every cylinder. Between #2 and #3 both layers of metal are broken.

Jay :

Security light isn't solid when you turn the key to the ON position right?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Doesn

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Doesn'

Jay :

wow, most of the time you can't see where it's blown

Jay :

no security light.

Jay :

ok

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Doesn't have a security light

Jay :

You said you tried a Ecm right?

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Doesn't have any aftermarket security either.

Jay :

ok.. that is also good to know

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Yes got a nice brand new (Cheap $875.00) dollar one setting here.

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

hooked it up this morning still same results.

Jay :

wow, interesting.

Jay :

This is a silly question

Jay :

You checked fuses right?

Jay :

Gota ask.. Sorry

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

I think I've checked them all yes. We have ALLDATA, and I think it personally sucks when it comes to wiring.

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

I've checked each wire that should have power right at the ecm connector.

Jay :

Well if you want, hang on and I will give you the Ecm pin layout so you can go through all the voltage checks with key on and so on.

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

According to the ALLDATA schematic

Jay :

See if you can narrow down what is going on. When I do this I just skip the ones that say engine running. Hang on.

Jay :

Click HERE to download the reference check

Jay :

It listed two 1.8's if something doesn't match up, let me know, I will get you the other one.

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Thanks

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

What can you think of that would tell the ECM to cut fuel and spark?

Jay :

Either a ground, or something maybe not plugged in

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

Well I'm going to call it a night. Hopefully tomorrow I can get this thing going. Thanks for your help and if you can check in tomorrow that be great. Thanks again and wish me luck I think I'm going to need it.

Jay :

Good luck,

Jay :

But I will say thing

Jay :

this

Jay :

I am sure this thing is bugging you. But the biggest mistakes is missing the basics. Don't over think this to much.

Jay :

It's going to be something stupid I have a feeling

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

I agree.

JACUSTOMER-70qmnrns- :

later

Jay :

Talk to you tomorrow

Jay :

checking in, see how you are making out.

Customer:

Things are't going good. Not coming up with anything. No spark on #1 or #2 and no injector pulse on any of the four injectors.

Customer:

Something is telling the computer not to allow #1 and #2 to have no spark, and I find this very strange. I could see if it shut down all the coils, but why just #1 and #2?

Customer:

Sorry for the delay got pulled off this to do other jobs. This is a used vehicle they just sold so they have the guy in another used car for now.

Customer:

But management is getting a little ansi.

Jay :

Sorry things are not working out on this for you. I am afraid I may have a little more bad news. I am going away on vacation tomorrow and will be back next wed. I will opt out and see if someone else can help you. If no one has responded and you still need help, I will help you when I get back.

Jay :

Do not reply to this unless a expert contacts you on this. Thanks Jay!

Customer: Got it figured out about two hours after i responsed to you. Found a Broken tooth on the back of the intake cam. Tooth isn't even broken all the way off just a samll portion off it. Found it using a scope.
Customer: Thanks for your help.
Jay :

Wow, good find!

Jay :

Glad you found the problem

Jay :

Thank you for using JustAnswer.com

Jay :

Thanks Jay!

Jay, Nissan Technician
Category: Nissan
Satisfied Customers: 15057
Experience: 20+yrs experience with Nissan & Infiniti Trained & Certified.Currently still working for Dealer
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Jay
Jay
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20+yrs experience with Nissan & Infiniti Trained & Certified.Currently still working for Dealer