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Kenny O.
Kenny O., Motorcycle, ATV, Mules, Side by Side's Product Specialist. All Brands
Category: Motorcycle
Satisfied Customers: 953
Experience:  Worked for Kawasaki Motors as a Product Support Specialist (Factory Support) for 24 years
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07 brute force no spark to plugs

Customer Question

07 brute force no spark to plugs
Submitted: 10 months ago.
Category: Motorcycle
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Just added a new crank sensor didn't fix the problem blk/w and blue wire at cdi read 2.8-3 and coils read 4.5 ish
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Hi Austin my name is ***** ***** of questions for you ?

  • How many hours and or miles on this unit ?
  • Is everything stock on the electrical system including the ignition system ?
  • Did this happen all a sudden and then just quit ?
  • Had you noticed any other unusual electrical problems ?

Thanks

Kenny

Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Austin I have to step away from my computer for a few hours, there are a couple issues with this model and its pertains to electrical gremlins, I work up PDF sheets for each individual questions and there symptoms, I'm in California so it will be a little later when I will post the links, it looks like you have a multi-meter that you will need as I will give you some various checks,

Thanks

Kenny

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
2007 brute force 750 290hrs 890miles
60 hrs on rebuilt motor 11:1 comp pistons 785cc stage 1 cam, dynatec cdi, (have a spare DYNATECK and a stock cdi no spark with any of the three)...went riding 2 weeks ago bike did good but the one way starter bearing started slipping so I changed that last weekend and reassembled then this morning added oil and coolant and went to bust her off and wouldn't start so added starting fuel still nothing, pulled plug and found zero spark.. Was told i could have damaged ignition coil so bought a new one earlier still didn't fix anything
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Excuse me I was told I may have damaged the crank sensor so I bought a new one with no results
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Morning Austin, sorry I didn't get back last night (my birthday celebration) anyway I'm going to post up some checks that I would like you to check, there is resistance reading spec, but I'm more curious on the AC output, that is what the CDI box sees, also you just want to make sure that you ARE NOT running the stock CDI, correct ?

Thanks, ***** ***** an download the PDF and save a copy, and then get back to me with the results.

Kenny

http://www.hightail.com/download/ZWJWSXQ4NnllaFFVV01UQw

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Resistance on innova 3320 auto meter is .414 at 40F° at 60°F yesterday it was .475 also that was purchased yesterday the old sensor read with in 1-2 ohm today and yesterday at 60°F only .422 that is the old one...... Resistance between blk/w & blue is .090-.105 I assume that means .9-1 ohm
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Excuse me AC v is .9-1 (not ohm resistance)
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
That's with plugs in
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I will add that I am not running a stock cdi I am running a DYNATECK cdi
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Coil primary .3-.4
Secondary 9.45k ohm
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Resistance as stated in the PDF, your meter should be set to Rx10 (lower scale) if that is the reading on that you are getting is way low ?

When checking the AC voltage out of the pick-up coil set you meter to the lowest setting on VAC and then your reading is what I pointed out again on the PDF.

Now is that CDI from Dynatec a plug and play, does it plug right into the where the stock plug is on the main harness, or do you need to modify the harness ?

If you wouldn't mind picturing that and post it up,

Your H/T coil specs are in line, that isn't your problem, I am concerned about the CDI if it plugs into the harness without modification then I can refer to the stock wiring harness.

Thanks

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Resistance between the 3 stator wires are all 6-7 ohm and checked for the 3 wires grounding out to bike/coils and didn't find any
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Cdi plugs into factory harness with no mods
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
It's not letting me add a photo
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

OK, I'm going to have you check a few things at the plug at the CDI, give me a minute while I pull up the wiring harness.

Thanks

Are you using this ?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Once again it won't pull up your pic I can't believe this... Its a black and red digital meter with a battery load test/ DC ma , DC 10a , 10 megOhm input DCV , ACV , ACma , something else ???, and noise making contact setting,
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

DCV and ACV are the two that you should be using, I am now going to send you to the plug for the ECU (CDI) set your meter to VDC and I want you to first measure your battery voltage right at the battery, that will give you a baseline voltage of the system. Once you have your system voltage at the battery, then go to your plug for the ECU and unplug it from the harness, you will find a "brown" wire, turn the key on and measure the voltage on the brown wire, it should be the same as the voltage that you measured at the battery.

Next in the same plug, you will find a black/yellow wire, turn your meter to the ohms scale and check for continuity to the ground (-) at the battery, that wire is your internal ground for the ECU.

Get back with the results.

Thanks

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Batt is brand new and has been on trickle charge it read 13v and brown wire read same 13v also the blk/ylw wire is conductive with the negative battery terminal
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Is that voltage exactly the same at the ECU and battery ?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Now where are you at on your pick-coils ? did you retest and are the numbers falling in line with my specs ?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
13.02 at battery and 12.99 at brown wire
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
What are pick coils ??
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

That is your crank sensor

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
417 ohm it keeps rising with temperature
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

and your AC volts was OK, right ?

Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Has this unit been used around a lot of water ?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Bunches of water!!! I bought it a year or less ago but it's a dedicated mud bike since probably the day it was purchased new
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Snorkels , radiator relocate , 4" lift , 30 tires. Most all connections were greased when I bought it
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

OK, you likely have a harness issue, this was a problem on the first year for this model and then subsequent years to follow, I cant remember when KHI finally fixed the issue but I will have you check anyway.

As you likely saw from my profile I use to work at Kawasaki on the tech line for the dealers, there was a problem with an internal connector in the main harness that caused all kinds of issues, again I will post up a PDF that I put together and you will need to slice back the plastic covering on the main harness and look for this connector, since so far everything that I'm seeing looks OK, this corrosion occurred on units that didn't see any water so I suspect that likely this is whats going on.

We might have to do the phone call deal if you get stuck ?

Thanks

Kenny

http://www.hightail.com/download/ZWJWSXQwNXZTSUFzeHNUQw

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I don't think my bike has the BUSS connector but I'll look
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Or it has already been done I'm headed to pull the rear plastics off now
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

I cant remember when KHI did the running change, it was a few years after, then stopped using it and then they actually came back with it, the harness was a vendor item and I remember that they were having a problem with the vendor, which is usually the case. In any case there are still internal connections in the harness, on both the ground and the brown wires, and if this harness has seen that much water then who knows ?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ment to add in the beggining that the bike was running fine and one way bearing went out so I took the cover off and fly wheel and replaced the bearing and after that is when it stopped firring
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

OK then what was your AC volts .9 ? and you did get the key way in and it didn't push out when you installed the flywheel back on ? Made sure that the wires for the PU coil are not pinched and or rubbing on the flywheel ?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
OK the buss connection were fixed at factory there is a mass of black.yellow wired crimped together and dipped in like a clear epoxy one is aroumt the gas filler neck and one is real close to were the plugs for the cdi come out of the harness and yes the flywheel is on the key it does not spin around its stationary
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

DO there look like any corrosion around them ?

Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

I understand the flywheel key theory, its there for timing purposes only, if the flywheel taper is not clean and torqued then there is a possibility that the flywheel moved or like I said sometimes during assembly the keyway can get pushed out of its groove ?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I took the flywheel back off and put it on again and installed the bearing and collar and crank bolt with the engine cover still removed and the flywheel was solidly planted and stationary do you have a torque spec for the crank bolt maybe I'm not putting enough on it and if I can find my torque wrench I can check it
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Do that for sure, spec is 94 ft lbs !

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
OK I couldn'tfind my torque wrench and I'm out of time for this weekend I work out of town and won't be back around until next weekend but I tried a small 3/8 impact that peaks at around 105 ft lb and it solved nothing i will try and find a torque wrench and re do it properly by the way what are all the resistance specs on the coils ? I just checked my front coil because it was easiest to get to ...so later I can check my rear coil
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Do you have the stock ECU, if so try that for test purposes, also I will look into the technical data for the Dynatec, you are missing something here.

Thanks, ***** ***** back when you can, I will go over this a little deeper

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have a stock ecu and another DYNATECK and I have swapped them all several times no change ,, also when I took the flywheel off it took tremendous force with a 3 jaw puller and when it came off it popped real loud!! But I saw no visible damage.....but I saw where someone said not to hit the flywheel with a hammer because it could damage the magnet I did not hit the flywheel with a hammer but with the way the flywheel popped off like that could that damage anything is there anyway to test so to speak the flywheel because I feel that is the stator or flywheel that is giving us no spark since that's the only thing that has been tampered with and everything else checks out
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Anyways just wanted to throw that detail out there along with it was 30°F when I was putting the flywheel back on so I used a electric heat gun on low to WARM up the flywheel but no more Than say 120-170°F to help it go on ..basically no more than engine operating temp ...anyways I'll leave you alone until I'm back at the bike
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Austin the correct way to pull that flywheel is to use a puller that index's off the center of the flywheel and then pushes against the end of the crankshaft, now using the method that you did (and I have seen this in the part) where people have used the type of puller that you did and it warps the rotor, the pick-up coil really doesn't initialize the main magnets, but the stator does for the system charging, and yes you are correct that magnets can be damaged especially with the new type of magnets (rare earth) that are used now.

Now I might be concerned that if you did warp or bent the flywheel then as the "swipers" on the external part of the flywheel, there is a clearance problem now, which then the ECU is not seeing the correct position and or the signal isn't strong engine to register on the ECU ?

What ever you do, DO NOT TRY TURNING THE ENGINE OVER WIT HTE COVER OFF, IT CAN BREAK THE ENGINE CASES WHERE THE IDLER GEARS SHAFT IS PRESSED INTO. !!!!!!!!

You need to check that flywheel, I think that might be a problem.

Expert:  Kenny O. replied 10 months ago.

Hi this is just a follow up on your question, if more help is needed please reply back and we can continue and further diagnosing your problem, if satisfied with my help, please accept as I can get credited for helping you. Thanks again for using Just Answer, if help is need in the future, you can request my assistance and will be glad to help.

Thanks

Kenny

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