Motorcycle Repair Questions? Ask a Mechanic ASAP
Turn the switch ON-OFF and on the 3rd time leave the switch on. Wait a few seconds and across the display will be a code, what is that code or codes ? Use the mode button to cycle through codes. Thanks. RaceTech
Ok, I checked the codes, it came up W A I E and the check engine light and wrench symbol were flashing. The only thing that I was unsure about on the last letter of the code. It looked like a E but the top leg of the E was not visible. Thanks Customer
That would have been a T and at the end you should have saw end.
How many times does the light blink ?
Short blinks and long blinks.
Count the blinks then the light will pause, count those blinks, this is the code.
The switch has to be switched from on to off within 5 seconds and on the 3rd time leave the igntion switch on. The word wait will aprear and then at the end you will get a end code.
So blink pause blink blink will be code 12
At the end of each code is a pause pause then another code will come across
So code 42 will be blink blink blink blink pause blink blink pause pause
Notice the first four blinks represent the code 40 and then last blinks represent numbers 1-9
Okay, I got 6 blinks pause 1 blink code 61
That means there is not any codes in the system, now that does not mean that the Polaris digital wrench the dealer has will not show codes. Lets move on to the next area.
The first thing I would like to see is the sparkplugs replaced. Airfilter serviced. . Update me once you have ridden it for a few miles.
I will aslo give you directions to reset the oil light later today.
Okay, How is the best way to get to the plugs. Do I have to take off the front end plastic and gas tank. Or what do you suggest. I was going to do that earlier before I talk to you but can only see the one one the shifter side. Thanks
You will need to remove the seat, body panels and then the fuel tank. I do this because you don't want any debris falling down in to the engine. Clean around the spark-plug hole with a shop vac or air compressor before removing that spark-plug. The one on the shifter side is pretty easy to get at, once you remove that one, let me know the color of it and the same for the other spark plug.
There have been other people to change the sparkplug without removing the plastics but it is a pain. I have seen the left plug removed from the right side, but it is a pain in the rear. Do the above I first suggested that will ensure no debris in the cylinder.
Okay I got the plugs out. They are Champion RC7YC3. Plug condition is Black carbon on the bottom of the thread and up about two threads. The ceramic part is two thirds black and one third white around the diameter. the little round metal core is mostly clean except for where it goes into the ceramic. The bent wire is clean all except the last 1/8 inch where it connects to the bottom of the thread. The gap checks .032". Overall except for the black carbon on the bottom plug is in pretty good condition. The filter looks okay wasn't oily pretty clean It is a Paper filter with a mesh screen over it.
Replace the sparkplugs with new ones and then let me know the outcome.
.035" is the correct gap for the sparkplugs.
Next thing I want to check after the sparkplugs is the battery condition. A low battery voltage will cause this as much as anything else. Igntion switch off, you should have 12.6 volts or more.
While your at the fuel tank, check your vent lines .
Check your fuel cap as well.
If that fuel is old or contaminated, drain it.
How do Icheck the battery voltage? Saturday when I was trying to reset the flashing wrench I remember seeing something about the battery 11.9 maybe but the key was on during this.
also the gas tank only has one gas line and one electric wire and one little clear plastic tube that comes off the top, I'm not sure where it goes. Looks like it ran into the bottom of the speedometer area. Is that the vent? its a 1/8 clear tube. It does hook to the top of the gas tank. The gas cap does not appear to be vented.
The gas is not old, It does have some Injector cleaner in it that I added to see if that might help. One thing I have'nt told you was that last August 2010, about a month after i bought the atv the throttle kept hanging after the engine would get warmed up.It would hang at about 2000 rpm. I took it into the dealer and they put a new Throttle body on the atv. That hurt the pocketbook. It took care of the problem, but I have only ridden it less than 10 hrs. Just thought you might need to know that. Thanks for the help so far.
Thanks for the information the plastic tube is the vent , you should be able to blow through it. You can measure the battery voltage with a hand held multi-meter, any wal-mart or parts store will have one. Walmart carry's a pretty nice red one. Switch the meter to DC voltage, leave the igntion switch off and measure the battery voltage, you should see 12.6 volts or more. I will have more information for you once the readings are posted on the battery. One opther thing is how much free play is in that throttle cable before you actually feel it to throttle ?
Another thing is the ETC switch, it is mounted on the right handle bar, it is part of throttle housing, you will see some wires, trace the wires to the connector and unplug it. Once you open the cover up you will see how the throttle cable keeps tension on the contact switch, when the cable becomes pinched or the throttle becomes stuck, the switch will activate and put the ATV in limp and rev limiter mode. Let me know what you find. Send some pictures of the inside of that throttle housing with the lever pushed and then the lever not pushed. You can use the paper clip icon on this page to post pictures or use photobucket.com and give me the link to the pictures.
Your throttle free play should be between ,(0625" - .1250 " inches ) ( 1.58 -3.17 mm )
To remove cover on top of the throttle to inspect the ETC switch, use a flat blade screw driver and insert in the back of the housing and twist the screwdriver slightly while lifting the cover up.
Below you will find a diagram of the ETC switch I speak of, please read it over carefully.
Click on the image and then click again to zoom in.
What I usually do is open the housing and then pull on the cable towards the opposite side of the handle bar while I operate the throttle. Then I will do the complete opposite and see if there is a change, The cable tension applys pressure to the switch.
Let me know what you find.
The Etc switch may be your problem since the throttle cable was messed with
I checked the battery at 12.08 DC volts. I blowed through the gas vent hose, seemed a little restricted but air went thru, seemed to get easier the more i blew. Then I checked the ETC switch. I had a little experence with it last year before I took it to the dealer for the throttle body change. It has a good 1/8" of free play, withthe lever not pushed it was a little close, .045", with the lever pushed all the way it was 3/16" or a little more. with the lever not pushed I could push the cable back toward the throttle body to where the gap would open to about 3/16". So I ajusted the cable adjustment to make the unpushed gap to 1/16". Everything seems to be working okay. I did not unhook the wires, did'nt really understand that part. The wire run into the Tack and headlight area and i don't have that disassembled. I assume from there they run down to the throttle body. I could not get the Spark Plugs today the dealer is closed on mondays. Do you recommend to stay with the champions or some other brand? I took the pictures but my camera batteries went dead before I could download them to the computer.
So does it run better now ?
The battery voltage is low, the battery needs to be load tested or charged. I can give you those test. I am waiting to hear back from you on if it runs any better now. Im thinking the ETC switch was putting the ATV in rev limiter mode or limp mode.
Makes rue when you put the plugs back in, on the ETC switch, grasp the cable inside the housing and pull the cable towards the throttle cable entrance and see what we get.
Sounds like the cable is pinched a bit between the throttle body and throttle housing
When I say free play, that will be teh freeplay at the handle bar when you press teh lever. The lever should have free play before you feel tension on it
Not at the throttle body
Throttle cable seemes to be free, However it would push back toward the throttle body before I adjusted. Yes I under stand about the ferr play it has some free play at the throtle lever
Did you start it yet ?
That battery is low to
Shoudl have been 12.6 volts or more
No I don't have the new plugs.
Let me know when you get those new plugs, ok.
Should I charge the battery overnight?
Did you work the lever on the throttle body ?
No dont charge the battery yet, not without starting it
One thing at a time, so we know what the problem was.
Sparkplugs, ETC switch we will check, then battery. Those are the prder we will stay in. If we do it all at once , we want know what caused it
Make sense ?
I am about 100% sure the ETC switch is malfunctioning.
I haven't seen a lever on the throttle body the cable goes into a plastic housing at the throtle body.
Yea, that was my mistake there. Dont worry about the throttle body yet.
Just sparkplugs, then connect fuel lines
How hard would it be for you to install those plugs and just connect the fuel lines to the tank ?
Would it be alot of trouble when you get the new plugs to change them out ?
I will try to get the plugs tomorrow afternoon and put them in, and reattach the fuel tank. What do you mean would it be alot of trouble to change them out.
Should I stay with Champion plugs?
Dont worry about that, get the plugs and let me know. I like NGK myself.
I dont like champion
I don't like champion either. Thanks I'll talk to you tomorrow.
Talk to you then.
Sorry, But should I get some dielectric grease and put on the new plugs?
Its always a good idea to put grease on the plug threads and electric grease on top of teh plug.
I put in the NGK plugs. It started up fine ran good at 1450 rpm to 1480rpm for about 5 min. then started sputtering like before. after it got good and warm rpm dropped to 1380 rpm and would flutter down to 1220rpm , then back to 1350. It jumps around from 1200 to 1350rpm. Just like before. Took the ETC cover off again and held the free play open just before rev up no change.
Checked the battery after it ran for about 30min. it checked 12.37volts.
It still sputters at all speeds. I wish you could hear it run.
Does it sputter at the same rpm just about every single time ?
I dont want you to put slack in the throttle cable at ETC switch I want to see the cable held tightly like towards the left handle bar and keeping tension on it, rev it up.
It sputters at all rpms
So one minute it will rev up high and the next minute it may rev up to a lower RPM ?
I don't follow you
Answer this one first : I dont want you to put slack in the throttle cable at ETC switch I want to see the cable held tightly like towards the left handle bar and keeping tension on it, rev it up.
Sort of light grabing the throttle cable sheating and pulling on it
But instead the cable itself
I will hold the cable inside the etc box with a pair of needl nose pliers, and hold tension toward the sheath. then use the lever to rev it up. is this correct.
Yes that is correct, that will keep tension on the switch and we can work from there. Keep tension on the cable just the way you are saying here, while trying to rev it up.
Let me know. Also look at the diagram I sent you and you will see the contacts inside the switch. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Do this after the tension part.
Okay, I'll be back soon.
Were you pulling the cable in the opposite direction before ?
What were you doing ?
If you are talking about last night I was pushing the cable back toward the sheath or left handle bar. it would move about 1/8"
Do that while trying to rev it up.
Keep good steady tension on it, while pressing the gas.
Now when ipress the gas the cable will come out of the sheath. But your saying just keep the tension held tight away from the etc switch.
Your holding the cable cable on the inside of the switch correct ?
Do you see where the cable connects to ?
On the throttle housing where it ends at ?
Yes it fit into a plastic cover on the side of the throttle body.
Were not working at the throttle body, we are working up at the handle bar , the entire process here
I'm sorry you said throttle housing .
Yes that is correct, everything I have given you, Was refrenced to throttle housing
Yes I understand some what how the etc switch works.
Let me see if I can explain it here
The cable at the throttle housing where it connects, puts tension the switch. When there is no tension, the ATV will go into limp mode ( basically grounding out the kill switch system )
Its a stupid and very stupid safety feature.
I understand that.
Great, lets see if you can trick that switch by holding pressure on the switch and try reving the ATV up to where it runs good.
Okay i'll be back.
No change, when i hold tension there is 1/8" clearance at the contacts. in normal there is 1/16" clearance. when contact touch the engine dies. Looks to me like it is working just like it is supposed to
reved it up while holding tension still sputters
Great. Before we charge that battery and perform some test. Do you have a can of carburetor cleaner or some gas in a spray bottle ? I want you to spray this around the intake between the throtttle body and engine, do the rpms change while idling when spraying ? Let me know. Do the same for the gaskets around the cylinder and cylinder head.
I have some spray starter fluid.
That will work . I usually use throttle body cleaner, but that what you have will work
Is there any danger of flameup if it get on the manifold.
Are we checking for cracks or sucking in air from some where else
Yes we are checking for leaks, Dont spray the whole bottle on there at one time. Just ease around the boot. You did check that airfilter to right ?
IM trying the easy stuff first, before we move on to the others.
Yes are filter is good
Will it rev up on its own if there is a leak or hairline crack in the boot
Yes it will
Why is there ?
No I did'nt see any, but a guy at work had this problen with his.
I will go try the starting fluid.
Waiting to hear back from you
Okay, I sprayed all around the throttle body and boots on both ends and the Cylinder head and gasket area. One time while spraying the head gasket area on the right side the rpm went from 1350 to 1450 rpm but tried again later and it nerver would do it again. I think it was just fluttering around. I used all my spray never could get it to rev up.
And no visible sign of cracks correct ?
No sign of cracks
Great. that is a good thing, but still leaves us to find the problem.
Can you tell me more of when this happen ? During a storage period, parked it one day went out eh very next day, during a ride, jumping and ETC ?
You did check the sparkplug wires correct ?
And caps ?
I did'nt ride it very much this winter, but I would start it and let it run at least twice a week. Mainly to keep the battery charged. Early Feb. I was using it with my trailer to haul flower bed trimings. During that morning it started to run rough and would cough every now and then. And every since then its been running rough. Act like fuel mixture is not right. Always run rough at all speed after it gets warned up. It was plenty of power but you can feel it missing at any speed
Wires and caps look o
sorry looks ok
Great job. My next question is fuel, have you drained the old fuel out or did the fuel have an odor to it ?
I did not completely drain the fuel but i did run it very low then put in more that I had bought a couple of week ago. Also put some injector cleaner init.
Running it low, creates a worse case. Put your hand over the back of the throttle body while its running and then press the gas, does it rev up ? You will have to remove the air filter to do this. Do it with and without the airfitler, my thoughts now is the fuel system being clogged since we have done just about everything outside the box. Would you be capable of removing the throttle body and cleaning it. Removing the injectors and cleaning them to ? Emptying the fuel tank out ?
Try to cover the opening at the air box 1/4 way, 1/2 way, 3/4 of the way and almost all the way.
This after noon while it was running i put my hand over the breather tude that sticks up it was pulling good air but it would almost die if i closed to much
But would it rev at the air openings I listed ?
no when block the air it will die
Even at 1/4 throttle ?
I meann 1/4 way closed at air box. sorry
I did'nt try anything but at idle
Try to rev it up at different air openings when covering it with your hand. You may have to feather it a bit with your hand at the air box. Let me know. I am thinking your fuel system is clogged
Okay I will take the breather off and try different amounts of air at various rpms
Sounds good. I have seen the throttle body become dirty to and it will cause it to act like this. Especially different rpms
Back in a miniute
You can clean the throttle body and injectors with throttle body cleaner
By removing them, before we do that though, I have a few tricks
Okay i will go try the air first.
Great. once you have done that, Use some compressed air into the fuel tank and blow it. Then use compressed air in the fuel lines and let me know what you get.
So take the fuel line loose from the fuel tank and blow through it toward the injectors or throttle body. where should i blow into the gas tank with air hose
Put a rag around the fuel opening and use compressed air in the tank. Then remove the fuel line and blow compressed air through it. Should be pretty easy since you already have the plastics removed.
Can i blow through the vent outlet into the tank
You can I just hit the lines first and see what we get.
Blow while its running.
A good blow and then release.
so take gas line loose from tank and blow throught it toward the throttle body while it running.
Only the tank while it is running. Then shut the ATV and blow through the fuel lines.
Ill be back in 20- 25 minutes or so.
Okay I put air pressure to the gas tank, No change
I took the gas line loose and blew thur the gas line toward the throttle body a couple of times, No change
I took the filter off and put my hand over the inlet tube where the filter clamps on at 1/4" and 1/2 open and 3/4 open No Change When i closed the opening the rubber tube would colaspe from the vacuum motor would almost die.
Hmmmmm. Something isn't right here.
Can you try the code procedure again ?
I did today still the check engine blinks 6 times pause and 1 time
One more battery test. I would like to see is crank the engine for a period of 15 seconds, during those 15 seconds observe the battery voltage and record the lowest reading. If it falls below 9.5 volts or 2 volts below battery voltage let me know. Also while the ATV is idling I need voltage and then voltage at 1/4 throttle or how ever far you can get it. Will this ATV start sputtering at anything over 1.4 throttle and if not what throttle position ?
I would like to see fuel pressure test, cylinder compression test and leakdown test on the engine. Let me know if you have the tools to do that or not
No tools for that
I am also going to ask that you remove the sparkplug caps and trim back 1/4 inch wire or so, not to short and reinstall the caps. Caps remove counter clockwise
While your looking at that I am going to read back over what we have done
Idle speed should be around 1150 rpms
I am still digging for information on this, hold tight
Is all of this still covered under my original deposit of $25 or is it going to cost me more, I am new to this service.
Turn the ATV on to off 5 times, wait for the fuel pump to prime between ignition changes. Then dont crank but turn the key over five times just so it bumps the engine. Let me know if any changes.
Will not cost you anymore, at this point you havent been charged until you click accept. Dont click accept yet, I want to fix the problem. If I cant fix the problem, I dont expect pay
Okay its just taking a lot of your time
Its ok, this i what I do. It usually dont take me this long. Something is strange here.
No codes = fuel or comrpession usually. I have seen the computer not detect a fault.
So let me be sure even if it take another week my charge is still $25 correct.
Yes that is correct. Even a year or 3 years. LOL
Trust me, it s a faithful deposit and not a have to pay system.
I dont ever expect to be paid for something I haven fixed
I am trying to save you from the dealer.
I am looking over the service manual now
Okay thanks Hey I have to quit for tonight. Got to get up very eary in the morning. Probaly won't be back until thursday afternoon. Thanks
Yea, sure thing. I will check here with other techs as well
Yes, you think about it I'll check back later
Go back thorugh the list when I am done and make sure you done everything.
Pull the 2 injectors and turn the ignition switch to on, at this point the injectors should spray a wide pattern and not a stream.
With the engine running, place your hand on the injector or use a mechaincs stetscope and you should feel the vibration from the injectors
The only other thing I can think of and I have by passed it becasue it takes a special harness to adjust and check it. That is the TPS sensor.
The dealer has Digital Wrench Software that can read much more from your bike. Another suggestion would be to have them connect it to the digital wrench.
I checked the battery again while cranking with coil unpluged voltage was 11.8
then I started the motor without touching the throttle, It idle at 1230 rpm for about 6 minutes, and was running very smoth and normal. The filter is off. Then without touching the throttle the tach started to rise upto 1500 rpm. I could hear it sucking more air through the filter tube at this point. Then the cooling fan kicked on and the tack dropped to 1200 rpm. and started to flutter and miss. This all happened in about 10 min. or less.
As for the injectors, I do'nt know even where they are. Have never done anything with injectors.
At this point your going to have to visit a dealer for a digital wrench diagnostics and have the dealer check other parts of the fuel system that you do not have the tools for. They will also check compression and do a leak down test if nothing is found. Once they have narrowed it down with the special tools, including the TPS harness connector and fuel pump pressue gauge, please let me know what they have found.
Okay, I was thinking the same thing. Thanks for the help, at least I know more about it than I did before. Do you want me to accept now or wait until I find from the dealer whats going on. So I can let you know.
You can click accept now if I have been a help to you. I would like to know the results if you dont mind please. When are you getting it to the dealer , keep in touch with me. Thanks for your time.