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Doug
Doug, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Mitsubishi
Satisfied Customers: 8562
Experience:  Mitsubishi employed and Factory trained ASE certified technician
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Mitsubishi Endeavor XLS: 2004 Mitsubishi Endeavor xls awd low

Customer Question

2004 Mitsubishi Endeavor xls awd low idle when at a stop. when sitting at at stop my idle will go from 900 rpms to 300 or lower to where the engine starts to shake and the main bearing starts to bang around do to low oil pressure. what could cause this to happen.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Mitsubishi
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Hi,
Did anything noteworthy happen just prior to this condition forming? Recent repairs, maintenance, etc?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
This has been going on for some time (not the main bearing problem) but when the car is cold in the winter it would knock loud till it warms up (that's what the noise this issue now sounds like). I blow the trans do to the low/reverse spring problem. It took me 11 months but I fully rebuilt the whole thing. well over 3,500 in new parts to it all mits. OEM. Now I biult it to spec. from the AVG book.(very good book I might add) even to spec down to the measurements between the plates and the steels. I put back in and have had no problems with it at all. works to a T. this low idle came about a week later after the trans was put back in. all back in the beginning of June 2015. it started out not that bad and wouldn't do it all the time. then it got worse. so a list is below for everything I have done to try to correct the problem.I cleaned the throttle body (took it all the way off) with battery off the car
ran sea foam through the throttle body
reset the car about 12 times( this helped for a little bit until i turn the car off and restart it.)
replaced an o2 sensor bank 2 unit 2
replaced the throttle boy yesterday. this helped a lot. now it only dose it at very quick stops or when im idling for more them 7 sec. in the beginning before I replaced the throttle body the second i stopped moving the car the idle would drop to around 300- 250 right away. now it takes it about 7 seconds to do this with the new/used throttle body (i got it from a junk yard for 26.00 just to test this problem).I also noticed that now when i move the steering wheel the idle comes up immediately. before when i moved the steering wheel that idle and noise got worse. let me also add this only will happen in rev/drive. when in neutral or park it idles around 600-700 when the car is warm and stays there.
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Thanks.
Please make this inspection for me. Go to the throttle body hose under the hood and locate the small hose attached to the back of it, right near the throttle body end. Please follow that hose and tell me what the other end connects to.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I cant do it right now my wife had the car. but from what i remember for last night that hose is the output for coolant. I marked them before i took them off, the top open had coolant come out of it right when i took it off. so i assume that's the coolant intake one the bottom had nothing come out of it. so I assume that is the output. if you need me to really follow it i cant do that till she gets home around 5 tonight.
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
That's definitely not coolant! Lets wait until you can inspect it tonight so we can be sure of where it goes. To be clear I am talking about the small rubber hose directly attached to the large intake rubber duct, not to the bottom of the throttle body where the coolant lines are. This hose is very commonly misrouted causing a similar condition to yours, and given the other possible directions this could go, we definitely want to check this routing first.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok sorry, the ones im talking about are connected right to the throttle body, but i now know what ones your talking about. ill look at it right away when i get home and so dose she and ill get you know.
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Thanks, ***** ***** here off and on throughout the evening, so just reply back here when you are ready; do not "re list" the question or open a new question or I will not see your response.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok not a problem. And now that you mentioned this hose, I did have the black intake part off then i was doing the trans. at that time I replaced the valve cover gasket back there too. I forgot all about that. Ill let you know what i fined when i get home. thanks
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
No problem, I'll be here.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok I just got to look at it. If your standing in front of the car. the first port is going to the brake booster (big hoes) the second port in the rear is going to the Evaportive Emission purge solenoid (small hoes).
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Hi,
Please check the hose that goes straight in to the intake duct (the ~4" hose) on the back side, where does it go?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
it goes to the Evaportive Emission purge solenoid
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Thanks, ***** ***** problem.
That hose needs to go to the port on the back of the valve cover. It is used to draw oil vapor out of the crank case.
Having it hooked up to the purge solenoid is causing it to flood the engine with fuel vapor.
Orient the intake duct hose to the valve cover, then the purge solenoid hose to the pipe on the firewall and you'll be good to go, including your evap faults you mentioned.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok I think I know what your talking about but to make sure right now the rear hose on my intake manifold plenum (the big black peace) is connected to the Evaportive Emission purge solenoid. you want me to put that hoes to the rear valve cover port. the hoes that i have on the rear valve cover port right now is going to the port right in front of the throttle body. the port that is built into the air intake hoes. that you want me to move the hoes i have on the air intake hoes to the second port on the intake manifold plenum
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.

That is the hose I'm talking about, it needs to go to the valve cover. The purge solenoid should have one house going to the plenum and one to the firewall.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
right now my purge solenoid does have one small hoes to the plenum the other hoes coming out of the purge solenoid does go towards the firewall but the raps under the car in a tube going to the gas tank area. so i am sorry but im a little confused on what hoes you want me to move around like i said i have:
1 small hoes going from the plenum to the purge solenoid
2 a big hoes going from the plenum to the brake booster
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Do you see the hose I circled in The photo? Where does it go?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i didnt get a photo but you can email it to me***@******.***
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Please try cutting and pasting this link instead:
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/SU/superbovine/2014-05-06_213539_capture.jpg
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
that line is going to the rear valve cover port
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Okay, so back where we started then.
You mentioned before that when you changed the throttle body the condition changed... This was a used throttle or new? I'd you put the old throttle back on doors it resume the original condition?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I changed the throttle body with a used one from the junk yard. I do still have the original one and i will go put the orignal one back on now and see what happens.
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Let's see if it returns to original behavior or not, as that Will tell us if the improvement was coincidental or not.
Be sure to cycle the key on three times before starting the engine m
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
so i installed the original T/B i had already had the battery unplugged before i saw your last message, but i did turn the key 3 times. the original t/b was working great, till the car warmed. then the low idle came back but the noise was faint. so i parked the car and turned it off. waited 2 min turned it back on and all hell broke lose. every time i came to a stop the noise was there very loud and the idle went all the way down to 250rpm if that. the low idle seems to have followed the throttle body. back to the original message when its at its worse.now with the used one i got from the junk yard. after the car warms up i don't here anything. after i turn it off and back on the car is good at a stop, the low idle come on slowly. (not immediately like the original.) also with the used one if i here the noise all i do is now play with the steering wheel and it goes away immediately. still as of right now with the original, when i here the noise and i play with the wheel the noise gets worse the idle never goes back up till i very lightly touch the gas.
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Thanks.
I think at this point I would want to try another throttle body on there.... being able to clearly influence the issue changing the throttle body between the two verifies you were on the right path. If the throttle body was not at fault, changing between the two would cause no change in behavior.
I would prefer to get a known good unit on there (or one with some sort of warranty) if you have to get a used one and compare behavior again. The 2004-2006 are notorious for throttle failures (and in extreme cases, the throttles damaging the PCMs), so the odds of getting another one that is not performing up to part are pretty high.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok ill look into ordering one from online. i love how there is no info online on the 04-06 throttle failures. if a new one doesnt fix it what would be the next step, changing the pcm? what i dont understand is that the car when driving, runs with zero problems. this only happens at idle.
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
I really don't see much else to expect really. When these take out the pcm it is catastrophic... No throttle operation at all usually due to fail safe, and a bunch of trouble codes. I've run into a dozen of them and never seen one behave this way (and be pcm related).
The throttles themselves however... I warranties these quite frequently for this sort of behavior over the years, but never really ran into any problems after the 07s. That's often the case though with first generation parts like that, they rush to market and take a while to get the bugs out.
If that isn't it... We're probably going to be looking into some real long shots scenarios (pcm, some sort of load related issue in the transmission, etc).
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok im looking on ebay and found one that is test 6 month warranty for 90.00 or a new one for 217.00 is 217 a good price for a new one or should i keep looking.
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
That's a tough call... Mainly because if you don't see it operating yourself, no one else probably did either. If out is coming from a dismantler they usually warranty everything like a gamble, if it doesn't work, they just go pull another for you. It's a pretty safe bet usually, but when dealing with electronics like this it is a little sketchy, particularly when we are suspicious of the operation and really need a known good comparison.
Given the used one is as much add out is, I would say if you plan on keeping the truck just get the new one and know you are good regardless. Sure if it isn't it you ate out a bit more, but the other option leaves a lot up in the air if you can't say for certain it worked fine before.
As for the price... You can order from Mentor Mitsubishi for 25% off MSRP... About $185.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
yes were having a baby in less then three weeks. the truck is a great size. for us, i do plan on running into the ground. i will buy a new unit but it wont be till the end of next week. am i able to keep the conversation open till then or should i close it and start a new one?
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
No problem. If you plan on keeping it, that is the right move regardless, but hopefully our hunches are correct and will resolve it too. The behavioral change between the two units is certainly a good sign, as the original very clearly had an issue, just a matter of whether or not they partial improvement is due to the replacement being iffy or there being two different problems in play (less likely).
You can just reply back to this page when you ate ready and it will reopen the question for another 24 hours etc. You can open a new question, however the site will charge of course for a new question opening, whereas reopening this question there would be no charge. The question reopens whenever you reply after it has closed, you don't have to do anything special.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
DougSo I got a Brand new thottle body. I put it on and it was going great. every once and a while I could here the knock noise very very lite. the idle was good for about 3 day. the car sat for 2 days. today i go to drive it and it was all good till i was coming to a stop. the car starting knocking loud and bucking on me, the idle dropped to about 400 rpm. when i put it into neutral the knock kinda went away but i could still here it. the idle speed was the at 600-650 (in neutral). the check engine light came on with p0401. EGR code I never had this one yet. should i take to EGR off and clean it. still when the car is under load i have no problems at all.
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Hi,
I would check your connections on the EGR pipe to make sure they are tight and the gasket is in place etc. If they look OK, then pull the EGR valve and try cleaning it.... though in most cases replacement is required at that point. They do not often clean and correct.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
stupid questions where is the EGR Valve located i have a manual but i cant find it.
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
No problem.
The valve is located below the throttle body at the rear head. It does not look like your normal EGR valve so it is easy to over look. It is a combination valve/solenoid assembly in one unit... which is why it is pretty much always at fault when you have a problem with EGR flow; the entire system is in one piece except for the pipes, so barring anything going on with the pipe fitting/gaskets/clogs (highly unlikely to clog since the pipe diameter is huge), the valve is about always it.

http://i.imgur.com/5oVyaaR.png
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
DougSo the noise I here is not a main bearing knock. It is coming from my trans. It seems to be coming from planetary assembly area. My question is when when I look at used assembles I keep seeing set codes. I'm not sure what one I need and I was wondering if you can help me figure it out. Now I read some info about the plane try assembly failing do to the massive 72mm nut not being torqued to spec at the facility. It would come loose and compress the assembly messing it up. Now I did run into this problem when I opened my trans up. The 72mm nut and the main gear it holds in was replaced. I don't remember to part number for for it, but it is still the original planetary assembly. Now when when I when I was working with the assembly before I reinstalled it I did notice it has a lot of play in it. And I mean alot, but a mitsubishi tech told me this is normal so I put it back in. Now I think it is grinding inside the trans. Bot***** *****ne I need to to open it up and look at at this gear. If I'm right I need a set code so I don't order the wrong part
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
You are right on about the planetary failure from the nut. The large drive nut backs off on the 04-06 models due to improper staking most likely, and it slowly backs right into the planetary. When that happens it is usually best to replace the transmission due to the amount of collateral damage. The last one I repaired for this (due to warranty, they won't just replace them but rather fix each collateral failure), it ended up over $7k in repairs.
The problem is that when it starts contacting, it creates a lot of debris as it chews up the stakes in the planetary set, the washer shims in the gears, etc. This debris goes through the oil pump... and it is shot. It goes through the torque converter... and it is shot. Depending on your luck, you can lose the valve body over this too, if the debris gouges the valve bores. Then of course the planetary carrier itself etc.
The planetary carrier that gets damaged is the portion with the four "planet" gears mounted around the perimeter. For this part there is no "Set code", I have no idea what they are talking about. There are only two planetary carriers that were used, and the second one superseded the first one so you get the same one no matter what.
This is the part that gets destroyed by the drive nut:

http://i.imgur.com/MK12y4T.jpg
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
When I rebuilt the unit I replaced i anything with a mark on it. As off today my fluid is still good I did pull some fluid out and found only two metal flakes in it. The unit you are talking about is the output planet right. If so do you have a part number for it??
Expert:  Doug replied 1 year ago.
Right, that is the carrier, which gets crushed together and the planet stakes push through, etc etc.
The part number for the carrier in the picture is 2762A013. Again that is the new superseded part that applies to all endeavors.