Hi, I have a Mitsubishi Montero Limited 2003. I have been having issues with it starting. I have spark on only one ignition coil. No spark on the other two coils. I intend to change the PCM, but do not know how to go about it as I have been told there may be a need to reprogram the immo-ecu or keys to the new ecu and not too many tools can do that. What do I need to do?
Country: United StatesMake: MitsubishiModel: Montero LimitedYear: 2003Engine: V6, 3.8l
I have checked for sparks, only have it on coil that controls cylinder 3 and 6. All injectors working as fuel is being supplied.
Hi,If you replace the PCM you do need to reprogram your keys to the new PCM or your vehicle will not start.Before going that deep though, have your cam and crank sensors checked on an oscilloscope to make sure they are both sending good, clean square waves. If either of these have a dirty square wave the PCM will appear to drop two coils... in reality it just hasn't "Started" firing the other two coils yet because it is waiting for a valid cam/crank signal.If the cam and crank signals are good, barring anything obvious (actual coil failures), or any unusual wiring issues (rodent/accident damage, etc) then it looks like you will be in the market for a PCM.When the PCM is replaced, it normally costs $45 to have the keys reprogrammed at the dealer. Some independent shops and locksmiths have scan tools that can do this as well, but not many... the dealer is the only sure thing.If you have any questions please just let me know.Please remember to only rate my answer when you are satisfied. IF you feel the need to rate the lower two ratings, please stop and reply to me via the REPLY/CONTINUE CONVERSATION button with the issue you have. I will be happy to continue further and do everything I can to assist you with the constraints of your situation.
Hi,There is no way to accurately test either sensor without an oscilloscope. You need to be able to see the square wave to verify it is clean or not (it will be jagged if not etc).If you are unsure about the quality but do not have the means to test, I would suggest trying a new camshaft sensor first... this one is very easy to change yourself and not terribly expensive (compared to the PCM). The crank sensor is not as likely a suspect as you would lose spark and injector pulse after one normally if the crank sensor was failing.... not a rule, but a pretty good guide to use.There is no affordable way to program the keys to the PCM except having it done by someone else. Again most dealers have a flat half hour charge for this, about $45. I have heard of some dealers that try to get an hour, this is rare though. By comparison, the cheapest scan tools I have seen that can program keys start around $3000 and go up from there, and on top of that not all of them can do Mitsubishi keys either. Your best bet if you don't think anyone near you has the proper tool is to go to the dealer. If a shop wants to charge you to find out if their tool will work, you don't want to be going to that shop anyway.If you do find a shop that can program them, the pass code for a 2003 Montero is 5176.If you have any other questions please just let me know.
I should have added, if you try a camshaft sensor first, stay away from aftermarket sensors... They are known to cause problems in this application.
I will try to get another camshaft sensor and try that out first.In the meantime, I have 2 keys, one with the Mitsubishi logo and the other just plain and slimmer than the Mitsubishi key. Could they both be master keys?Is the pass code given above same as the vehicle specific password XXXXX in encrypted code registration method? As I only have one key that carries the Mitsubishi logo.What is the over ride code for my vehicle is just in case i some day have a key issue and need to drive it to the dealer. Immobilizer S/N is A2Y662D2.
Hi,Mitsubishi doesn't really use a Master and Sub based key system. They offered a valet type key that was slightly different in design that would be cut differently to only allow lock and ignition function and not trunk or glovebox, but that is it. I would need to see your two keys to determine what it is you have there. Odds are you just have one genuine key and one aftermarket key.The above password XXXXX XXXXX universal password XXXXX 01-06 Montero full size immobilizer systems. It is used on all full size Montero models in those years.The Immobilizer over ride is used for emergency use of the vehicle without a programmed key (for example to get the truck to a dealer with a new PCM and no keys programmed). Your over ride code for that serial number is 3763.Be aware that if you try to use the over ride with a "real" key you need to wrap the key head in aluminum foil to shield the RF emission. Over ride is supposed to be used with a flat dummy key only, and the RF from the programmable keys causing a disturbance during the over ride procedure. Aluminum foil takes care of that.
Thanks, XXXXX XXXXXHow do I post the picture of the keys to you?With the above information, it means that if i end up buying and connecting a replacement PCM, I could start the car using the over-ride code so as to get to the dealer, right?I Just remembered a few more things that happened before the vehicle got to this stage.- The engine was steam washed and that was where all the problem started.- It started after dying for days and replaced plugs that were all soaked in fuel.- After a few months, it didn't start again and I was told that the spark at the plugs was a weak spark.- I also noticed that one of the coils was swollen (suspecting it was burnt).- At the moment after several tried to start it, the car would act as though it wants to start with pops and then go cranking without and sound again.- if plugs are checked at that time, the will be soaked.How do i test an ignition coil to know the state (whether good or bad), or whether it is for this model or not. I am asking this because I measured resistance across the 3 pins of the ignition coils and noticed i got a reading on the swollen one that was different from the other two. The one i also bought from the market had a different reading than the two i have in the car.see image of keys below.what is the N3017A?
Thanks.That other key is a dummy key... it *shouldn't* start the truck. If it does, it means your immobilizer is already defeated. This is very unusual however, it is probably just a door key.WIth regard to the coils, I would have to get back to you this evening with test procedure, as I am actually off work right now (posting with my phone).The easiest way if you suspect a coil issue though is to simply move the coil that works to another location. If it stops working and the other one put in the working location starts working, then the coils are not suspect.Given that this all started after a pressure wash, I would be more concerned with the cam sensor, crank sensor, and coil conditions than I would be with the PCM at this point.
Thank a lot !I will be expecting the test procedure for the ignition coils. I hope to get the camshaft sensor tomorrow and will let you know what results i get.More info coming to mind.- The crankshaft sensor sensing blade got dislodged from the crankshaft sprocket. Had them fixed. i guess it is fine and that is why i am able to get spark (even thought weak). i hope i got the replacement right as i found out that there are two different types having the timing marks at different points. the one in the car at the moment is the one that has the timing mark closest to the blade.
Thanks for your patience. Again I apologize for the delays today.Can you elaborate on the crank blade coming loose? How and when did this occur, in relation to your problem?For your coils, your secondary resistance (meter leads attached to the two spark plug terminals) should be 8.5k-11.5k ohms.Your primary coil check is a bit more difficult though. Looking at the electrical connector with the locking tab on top, the pins are numbered 1-2-3 left to right. At rest there should be NO continuity between 1 and 2. With 1.5V applied across pins 2 and 3 (you MUST use 1.5V, and for no longer than 5-10 seconds.... anything more and you could destroy the transistor!), you SHOULD have continuity between 1 and 2.I am curious to hear more about the issues with the crank reluctor blade and how that all came to be.Doug C41092.8954512384
I really do not know how it came to be but I will tell you what I know. The vehicle was driven to the mechanic affect suspecting that it wasn't performing well and did a lot of hard starting. The next time I checked, the mechanic said the vehicle wouldn't start again and showed me the crank reluctor blade as the cause of the problem as it dislogded from the crankshaft sprocket. He replaced the sprocket and blade with another and wasn't getting any spark until I noticed that the timing marking on the one he replaced was different from the one it had there before. I then asked that we fix the former. Things got better after fixing the former but vehicle still won't start. Later he said the camshaft sensor was bad and then changed it. Unfortunately, the one he removed from the vehicle as at the time he gave me was broken. I don't know how that could have happened. I got frustrated and felt the mechanic didn't know what he was doing so I towed it home. THat has been my story so far.
Hm, that is very odd indeed.If the crank reluctor blade comes loose, it can do this in two capacities... it can move out of true and impact the crank sensor, damaging it, or the pins can sheer allowing it to rotate independent of the crank gear. In the latter case, it is often missed as tightening the crank gear down will sandwich the reluctor but not in the correct position.I am unsure how the blade could have broken, that is strange to say the least.... I think someone was maybe in over their head.At this point I would strongly recommend having the crank sensor checked out as well... again an oscilloscope is ideal for this, however if you have access to a scan tool with data list capabilities, this can be used to read crank sensor output as well.... not as accurate as an oscilloscope, however it will tell you if it just plain isn't doing anything or not.With some many issues revolving around that crank sensor blade, I can't help but think there may be a connection there and it would be best to at the least verify there is an output before jumping in any purchases. Ideally monitoring the cam and crank on scopes to make sure they are in sync would be best, XXXXX XXXXX understand that may not be a possibility.
You need to use the appropriate blade for this vehicle... they have changed a few times and being a 3.8 it is a significantly different ignition design than previous years. If there is any question I can get you the appropriate part number with your VIN to make sure you get the right one.
VIN is JA4NW51523J038565
No problem.The reluctor blade for your VIN will be MD185237 and lists for about $60 from Mitsubishi.
Do I have to rate every question or I wait until we are done?There seems to be a lot of crankshaft sensors and camshaft sensors all over the place. I was wondering: if the mechanic had changed any of this, will it affect the vehicle? are the sensors different on different models or once its the same connector, it will work?
You can wait until we are done; I am just obligated to post as an answer to give you the opportunity if I am not requesting information. Whatever you are comfortable with, I only ask that if you feel the need to use one of the lower two negative ratings you let me address the concerns causing that prior to giving a rating.You really need to have the correct parts... while there are some other vehicles that may plug in and may look similar, if they aren't identical, there is a reason. You can not trust it to plug in and be good, as in some cases this can actually cause damage even though it appears to be correct (nothing with your vehicle rings a bell in that respect, just giving you an idea of how different things can be).
ok.Say I want to make sure the parts in it now are the ones for my vehicle what are the part numbers for the camshaft sensor and crankshaft sensors.You mentioned previously that I could get the reluctor blade directly from Mitsubishi. On what Mitsubishi site can I check to make that purchase?Thanks.Again, if i choose a rating, will our conversation still go on or is that the end of this.
The part numbers will not printed on the sensors unfortunately... if you fear they may have been replaced with incorrect parts, the only way to know for sure would be to see an invoice for the old parts.Your cam sensor is part number MD360196 and retails for about $60Your crank sensor is part number MD357274 and retails for about $110I strongly recommend using Mentor Mitsubishi (www.mentormitsubishi.com) to order parts; they give outstanding service and sell parts at 25% off MSRP across the board.If you determine you need to order parts, just order by part number, do not use their catalog... ordering by part number will assure you get the correct part (the catalog that trademotion leases out is a bit sketchy with regard to number accuracy).If you choose a rating we can still continue, as long as you arrived here via Justanswer or eAnswer... if you arrived via Pearl.com, the question will close. We will eventually move all questions to that format, but for right now only Pearl.com hosted questions close after rating.
Mitsubishi employed and Factory trained ASE certified technician
I have checked out the mentor Mitsubishi website. Its not bad !I was also wondering, if i want to get the part number of an item for my vehicle, how do i get it especially by VIN.
From the website, it is difficult. You would look the part up by the catalog, then when you order they will ask for your VIN and they will verify the part prior to shipping.Conversely I work for Mitsubishi and have access to their parts database...if there is something you need to order I can always look up part numbers for you, you can save up a bunch or whatever... it is not a big deal.
Thanks. You are great !Yeah, I noticed they asked for the VIN when placing my orders.I rated you already. Also gave a tip for you, sorry it isn't so much though. You have been a great source of help.I will continue to keep in touch and let you know as things go by.
I got it, thanks!Please keep me posted with your findings; I am curious to hear what you find, as the situation sort of escalated as we spoke, so I am interested in finding out if it was washing related damage or even something the other shop did etc.... It will be interesting to hear the result.I will be here if you need anything else.
Hi,I noticed something and just wanted to confirm. First, when I put in the dummy key and turn ignition to on, I don't get and blinks from the red light on dash to say its an invalid key. But when I turn the ignition off and remove the key, it blinks about 7 times. If I use the main key, it doesn't blink either when I turn it on or off. What does that mean?I thought the light should blink as soon as it sees a wrong key in
Hi,With the non-programmable key the reaction from the security light will be different. If you attempt to start the car with a dummy key the light should blink about 10 seconds after attempting to start.Note that if you try repeatedly to start the car with a dummy or unprogrammed key, the system will lock up entirely. If this happens, even a correct key will not start the vehicle until the ignition is left in the On position for about a half hour with a working key.
How do you know when a system is locked up?
Well, in your situation it is a bit more difficult. Normally, you can tell by the car not starting :)For you, what you would want to do is put a noid light or test light across one of the injectors. If the system is locked up, the injectors will not pulse. If the injectors pulse normally, the system is not locked.
This is getting more interesting. Does it then mean that when the system is locked, it will still respond well (with the light blinks )when an over-ride procedure is tried on it? but just would not start?if locked up, can a scanner be used to correct this? or it just has to be the correct key in for about half an hour?
Theoretically, if the system were locked, the over ride should not work. If the system locks, all functions are supposed the cease until the waiting period is over. I don't know off the top of my head if the light would continue to flash or not... normally it only flashes for a short period (30 seconds, etc), however it is not exactly common to lock the system up in my position, so I couldn't say definitively.If you had access to an immobilizer capable scan tool you could just re-register the key to bypass the 30 minute wait.
Its to sad that on this side of our world, its difficult to find a proper place with the right tools for a proper diagnosis. if you manage to find one, you will have to pay with a foot and some teeth. lolAs at today, the guy that came to check the vehicle says there is no pulse at the injectors.If there is no pulse at the injectors, should i get a pop sound when trying to start the vehicle?
Double check your spark first, if you still only have one coil firing, you need to monitor your crank sensor on a scan tool and see if it is reading. It is possible to have locked the immobilizer, but considering you just started messing with the dummy key, we know it isn't your primary issue regardless.If the crank sensor is bad (and in some conditions the cam sensor as well), you will get one coil sparking and no fuel pulse; you can get occasional pops from crank case vapors igniting as well as if the sensor reads good for a split second and fuels momentarily.Check those sensors like we discussed at the beginning.
Something very strange happened tonight.I thought of eliminating all possible problems that i might have by starting with the ones that cost me nothing and that is why i started with leaving the original key in the ignition for 30mins. By the time i check after 30mins, i smelt something burnt around the car. opened the hood only to find the coil that feeds cylinder 2 and 5 extremely hot and infact swollen.What could cause such? The last time i told you able a coil i felt was bad, it was at this same point feeding 2 and 5.Help !!!I also have 2 technicians coming into inspect the car tomorrow. I just want to have all the details i need so as to guide them in case i notice any funny moves from them
Most likely just a faulty coil, though a bad pcm could do this as well.The coil has 12V any time the key is on as well as ground. The coil is commanded to fire by receiving a low voltage trigger from the pcm. In theory a trickle of voltage from the pcm could cause the coil to overheat... most likely it is just a coil failure though; this goes double if it is an aftermarket coil, we have huge problems with aftermarket coils swelling and even exploding on these vehicles.
Just remembered that sometime this afternoon I felt the temperature of all the coils with my hand. I noticed that the one at that position got warm when trying to start the vehicle. Not knowing why this was happening, I switched it with the coil that fed 4 and 1.Only to have the same thing happen tonight. but i guess this is worst cause the vehicle was with the ignition on for longer.
Well if the moved coil swells and fails too, you know you have an issue there from the pcm or the wiring. If the problem does not reoccur, it is likely the coil just failed. Hard to say with so many variables that have turned up since the initial post.
I have had 2 different guys come check this vehicle. I noticed they all had different things to say. With all the questions i have asked and the answer i have been getting from you, it has made it a lot easier for me to identify the one that really know what they are doing and the one that does not. However, the issue of the coil heating up is something i remember happening before i brought it home, but the guy said it had been fixed. so i was surprised to see it happen again this evening.As i said earlier, some guys (ones with scan tools that works with the vehicle as i was told) are coming to have it checked tomorrow. lets see as things go. I will keep you posted. if they say things that sound funny/unrealistic, i hope i can still run to you for clarification.Never mind my trouble. I just feel more comfortable with your answers/suggestions than the guys herethanks
See what shows on the scan tool. I am interested in if there is a valid crank signal/rpm signal or not indicating a working crank sensor.It's no problem. If anything sounds strange let me know and I'll review it. I will be in shorter hours tomorrow but will get with you as soon as I am available.
Thanks Doug C.Thumbs up for you !
Hi,All things being equal, if you have spark on all three coils (5/2, 1/4, 3/6), the engine should run.If there is no fuel pulse on the injectors, I would be most suspicious of having locked up the immobilizer. The fuel pulse and spark pulse are both from the same input, the crank sensor... so if you have spark normal, the fuel pulse should be normal too provided the immobilizer hasn't been tripped like we discussed last night.
I want to believe that if the immobiliser was locked it must have unlocked after I left the key at the on position for 30mins.
Correct, it would have unlocked.Ok if you have only two coils it will not likely run at all... you may get some hiccups but that would be it. Before you said 4 and 2 and 3/6, I took that to mean the 1/4 and 5/2 coils.The fuel gauge will show when the key is turned to on... it does not need to be running.
My fuel gauge shows empty despite putting in about 4 gallons of fuel.
I would be suspicious of the connection at the tank, however if it has just been added be aware that small increases can take quite some time to register. The reason for this is that the gauge does not respond immediately to level changes in order to prevent the needle from going up and down while going over hills, parking at angles, etc. In order for it to spring up into position after being low, it needs to be a good half tank increase or so, otherwise it can take 15-30 minutes to rise in some circumstances, depending on the starting point.Before getting all side tracked there is an easy solution here, they need to just pull the fuel supply hose off at the injector rail and see if you get fuel. If you do (ideally we would want a pressure reading, but again we don't need to get overly sidetracked), then we know not to worry about the amount of gas in there anymore. Honestly I a bit surprised that they would not have checked this first prior to making that assumption, because even if they did and there was no fuel, further inspections would have been necessary to verify pump operation, etc, which wasn't mentioned.
Guess what? A coils got burst during the repairs. I guess there is something wrong somewhere that we haven't found right? What is your view regarding the repair of my PCM?
Hi Doug,Mentor Mitsubishi doesn't have any of the parts i need available. Is there any alternative site you can recommend?
Hi,Which parts are you trying to order? I will check availability to see what the problem is.
The Camshaft (MD360196) and Crankshaft Sensors (MD357274)
Thanks.Both of those part numbers are correct for a 2003 3.8 Montero. Checking US stock, both are fully available.MD357274 there are about 20 left in our warehouses in addition to dealer stocks, and MD360196 there are about 60 left in our warehouses in addition to dealer stocks.Mentor does not have either of these in stock at this time, however that should not cause any problems with you ordering them (the majority of parts they will have to order prior to shipping).Did someone contact you and tell you they couldn't provide the parts, or what exactly happened?
After a few days of ordering, I got a message saying they do not have the parts available. I was also told that in addition to that, they do not do international shipping.
Wow, I'm sorry to hear that. I have had much success with them shipping internationally in the past. I can only assume that your particular destination is somewhere they will not ship to, which is a first for me. I have one customer in Singapore that has ordered from them several times.I do not have any other shops that are as reliable or that will ship overseas unfortunately. Your best bet would be to look into some UK based dealers that would be a little nearer to you and you might have some luck with. Failing that, and with no dealers near you, you may be forced to go with aftermarket parts.... I'd strongly recommend exhausting all of your efforts finding genuine parts first, however.
Well, if they really have it in stock, I could have it shipped to a friend in the US. He will then ship it to me.
If you have a friend in the US, have them place another order for it.As I mentioned before, there is plenty of stock of both parts in our warehouse. Mentor rarely has items "in stock" at their dealer except extremely common failure parts, no different than any other dealership. When you place an order with them they then place an order to the warehouse, and 2 days later they have a part to ship. Looking at the part availability, the only reason I can see why they said that was reinforcement to avoid shipping to your location.Have your stateside friend place an order and see what happens, I'm sure that should go through fine. If not, we can try www.mitsubishipartscenter.com, another online dealer. I do NOT have personally experience with this dealer though, only Mentor.
Hi,One tooth off is not going to interrupt your spark function on this model, however the engine will not run perfect. Two teeth or more on the driver side head can prevent spark function however, as the driver side head timing is monitored.If both cams are off, you certainly want to correct the timing before going any further.
Hi,Ignition coils for the 3.8 are going to be part number MD372045 (all 3 are the same)Fuel level/temp sensors *should* be MR487279... this is the unit used on 2003 through 2004 3.8s, however mid 2004 it changed to a new part. The only concern here is that different markets sometimes change earlier than others. Your VIN is not differentiating this part for me. You should be safe with that one though.
Hi,I need to order a PCM for my suv.I was wondering if you could advise on www.autoecms.com
Hi,Unfortunately I do not have any experience with that company. As long as they offer a guarantee I would imagine you would be fine, however I have had considerable issues with "rebuilders" sending out PCMs that did not work because they didn't really "fix" them, they just replaced the components that were most common to fail without actually checking for other issues.Your mileage may vary of course, but I am very cautious about those companies now unless I am able to talk to them before hand and make sure they are aware of what is going on with the unit etc I have and can have them repair it rather than give me an exchange and cross my fingers.Be aware that the keys will need to be re-registered to the new PCM after replacement.
Thanks for you candid advise.what would you suggest as an alternative? where else can i get to buy a PCM that is guaranteed.guess MentorMitsubishi should have. will check it out
No problem.Unfortunately new is the only "sure thing" and it does come at a very high price tag. The other is worth trying, again just make sure they have a good guarantee etc.
The truth is, I dont think there can be any guarantees, one can only try and then hope that what the send works. I wont be able to hold anyone responsible if they don't respond or attend to me well after telling them it isnt working.
Very true; it is unfortunate but the burden of truth to show its there fault is on you.
Hi Doug,I am kinda confused right now and really need your help.Is it possible to have all the timing marks on cam sprocket and crankshaft well align but have the scan tool reading something like 56 degree ADV TIM?what could be the cause of this?secondly, I don't seem to get a spark or fuel pressure after using the reluctor blade (MD185237) meant for this vehicle but i did get sparks when the wrong blade (from a montero sport) was in the vehicle. how is that?
Hi,YES this is possible. The advance is electronically controlled. While the base timing is set by the reluctor on the crankshaft and is dependent on belt timing, the computer then adjusts that timing as it sees fit. It can do this since it is a distributorless ignition and the entire spark timing is regulated by the computer, only using the crank position as a reference point.If the ignition key is OFF you can see anywhere from 50-65* advance depending on a slew of conditions. The reason for this is the computer is causing the ignition to fire as early as possible to try to get the engine running with minimal cranking. Once engine RPM goes up to a running speed (400 or higher) the advance will begin adjusting on the fly. Actual working advance will depend on atmospheric conditions, misfire history, fuel trims, etc... but you will normally see anywhere from 0 to about 30* advance while running, and on rare occasion a hair more under heavy throttle etc.There is no 'good' reason why the correct reluctor would not spark and the incorrect one would. The only area of concern there would be if the crank sensor was either incorrect as well (and matched the wrong reluctor) or was damaged along the way and no longer functioning. As long as the blades of the reluctor are passing through the crank sensor, that is all that is required of the reluctor. Doug C41133.8925634259
Thanks,The reluctor passes through the sensor. I checked all the cables and the sensor for the ground, battery voltage and 5V from PCM. While cranking, the digital voltmeter reads between 2.3-3.5V fluctuating.The sensor been bad definitely means no spark, no fuel right?Sorry to ask this but i just need to confirm this again: are you saying there are different sensors meant for different reluctors in mitsubishi montero?
Yes there are several different sensors and reluctors. You having the 3.8 Montero, yours are different from all the others.The only thing worth noting here is that you say you are seeing spark advance... does this mean you are seeing engine RPM as well (your voltage reading looks to be the case)? If you are seeing engine RPM, the reluctor and sensor are working and your problem is elsewhere, likely just coincidental that the change occurred during the reluctor replacement.
Hi,The Sport and 3.8 reluctors are very similar. Can you take a picture of yours so I can see what we are working with?
sorry its in the car at the moment. the chat just caught my attention
As I said, they are very similar however they are different. If I remember right the stepping is different off the gear, however I have never had both of them off a vehicle at the same time to purposefully compare as I'm sure you can understand.Originally there were issues with the blade breaking, then an incorrect gear and blade being used etc... with so many variables I would really need to see what we are working with to get an idea of what is right and what isn't. There's too many chefs in the kitchen, if you know what I mean, and it is making it more than a bit difficult to get an idea of what all has transpired with regard to this reluctor in particular and what is and isn't an issue with it.
yeah, I get your point. So sorry for all this stress. That is the reason why i decided to deal with it myself with your advice/help of course.
No worries. Lets see what we are actually dealing with so we can see what is and what is not a problem.When you do that if you would like to bring me up to speed on the current situation with the vehicle as well that would be great (what is currently working, what isn't etc).
I also had to buy a scan tool. what readings will you want me to get out for you in addition to the pictures and the current vehicle status.
No real readings at this time unless there is something noteworthy (for example no RPM signal from crank sensor or pending faults etc)... just refresh me on the exact state of the truck. For example:Cranks but doesn't start or starts but runs poorlyNo spark, spark on some coils, normal spark but won't runAnd so forth. It has been a while since we spoke so I would like to be sure I have an accurate understanding of the current condition of the truck.No rush on that, just let me know when you get the pictures of the different reluctors etc so I can evaluate it all.
Present state:Cranks but wont start.No fuel pressure during cranking (as no fuel in return hose)voltage measured at pin 3 of ignition coils2/5 : 0.4-0.7v1/4 : 0.24v3/6 : 0.5-0.7vFrom the scan tool, i got the following readingscalculated load value: 68.2%rpm: 113ignition timing advance fro #1 cylinder: 5 degreeserror codes: P1601, P2108, P0758, P0183, P0443also see below the pictures of the timing marks on all points.you can also see the reluctor plate from there.also see below: the different reluctors. right reluctor is the one that came with the car, the one on the left is the one the former mechanic put in because the on on the right broke off the sprocket
Thanks.I don't see anything unusual about that reluctor, how exactly is it different?With regard to your codes:P1601 - Is the throttle body unplugged?P2108 - Same questionP0758 - Transmission... not a concern right nowP0443 - Evaporative... not a concern right nowP0183 - Malfunction in fuel module... has the fuel pump been removed or disconnected?
How exactly is the one in the vehicle different from which? Didnt get the question.The one in the vehicle now is the same as the reluctor on the right (picture of reluctors). it has a timing mark different from the one on the left.Throttle body is connected.The pump is connected. If I put power on pin 3 in fuel pump relay 2, there is pressure in the fuel line and fuel pump works. which means the pump is fine
I apologize, the first picture did not load previously, I see the two pictures now. Sorry that was a bit confusing.The one that is on the vehicle now (and the one on the right) is the correct reluctor. The one on the left is the Sport reluctor which will give you incorrect ignition timing. If you have a 3.8, you want the one that is on the car now in the last picture.I am quite concerned about the throttle body malfunctions. If you take the intake hose off and depress the gas pedal with the key on or cranking, does the throttle open up?
No problem. Yes its a 3.8 so I am good regarding the reluctor. Depressing the gas pedal with the key on or cranking did not cause the throttle to open up!
This is probably not a good thing.As the codes indicate, there is a communication issue with the throttle body... now on some of these, depending on revision, they will not open if the pedal is depressed with only the key on (which is why I suggested cranking as well). With the age of this model, it should open even just key on, but cranking it would if not.When you monitor the RPM signal on the scan tool, it clearly goes from 0 to cranking speed (100-250 RPM)?Any other points of interest regarding how this all came to be?
Well all I noticed sometime ago was that when ignition is on, there is this humming sound coming from the throttle sensor, nothing more. Didnt do anything about it as i was told its normal.When you asked me to check if it opens and noticed it did not, I then checked the resistance reading between pin 2 and 4. I got 2.95kilo ohms.Manual says Standard value: 2 − 4 kiloohms. When cranking, RPM goes from 0 to 113 RPM and stays steady until i stop.
Unplug the throttle body and check between pins 5 and 6. These will be the two to the far right with the locking tab is on top. Let me know what resistance is there.
The resistance between pins 5 and 6 on the throttle body is about 5.5 ohms.
Thanks, XXXXX XXXXX good.Pull the throttle control relay and verify if you have 12V on pins 3 and 4 with the key on.The throttle relay is located below:If you DO have 12V on two pins, swap the relay with the MFI relay and then check to see if you still have power on those two throttle relay pins.
Great !I have 12V on pins 3 and 4 with key on.After swapping the relays, I still have power on the two pins.
Good.... that doesn't help me any, but good :)If you clear the faults, does the P1601 return?
In case it doesn't go without saying, make sure the relays are returned to their proper places and the throttle body is plugged back in first :)
All connectors have been plugged back.P1601 still returns after clearing codes.
That's very not good.Is there anything else noteworthy going on, specifically any accident damage, rodent damage, or someone poking/cutting at wiring?
How bad is the situation? Could that be the reason for the no start? what is next?Nothing I can see at the moment and none that existed prior to the no start problem.Guess I will go through all wiring to see if i can find anything.
Go through your wiring and look for anything out of place... not just cut wires but harness routed wrong, etc... anything that could indicate someone was in there and may have done something that would justify digging deeper.As it sits right now, the P1601 is indicating that there is no communication between the throttle unit and the PCM. The PCM checks out OK on the motor drive as well as the position sensor, and the power supply for the throttle unit that goes to the PCM is energizing properly. Ideally we would want to check to see if the power from the throttle relay is reaching the PCM, but lets look for obvious issues first.Based on the testing thus far, the service manual is going straight to PCM replacement... but keep in mind they do not account for outside influence, they are strictly going to diagnose components etc. Copied from the service manual for P1601: To prevent damage to scan tool MB991502 or MB991958, always turn the ignition switch to the "LOCK"(OFF) position before connecting or disconnecting scan tool MB991502 or MB991958. (1) Connect scan tool MB991502 or MB991958 to the data link connector. (2) Turn the ignition switch to the "ON" position. (3) After the DTC has been deleted, read the DTC again. (4) Turn the ignition switch to the "LOCK"(OFF) position. Q: Is DTC P01601 set? YES: Replace the PCM. Obviously not a good thing if we can't find any wiring issues. If all looks OK we will go on to a few PCM checks, but there is very little to go from at that point.Also keep in mind that this is still potentially an "additional" problem. How it is affecting the rest of the vehicles ability to run isn't set in stone at this point, but obviously it is a problem that will need to be addressed prior to the everything being 'fixed'.
Here it is almost 10pm. There isn't much I can do again tonight. I guess I will have to get back to you on this tomorrow.Thanks a lot for your time.
No problem.I will be tomorrow about 4-5PM your time, but if you come up with anything of interest feel free to post it in the meantime and I will catch up as soon as I get to work.
Did you get my messages?Is it also safe at this point to say that the crankshaft sensor is working since we have an rpm value? i want to couple up places we wont be working on.
Hi,Thanks I did not get your previous message for some reason.The throttle body will click about 6-10 times at key-on, which is normal, that sounds like that may be all that is. Try unplugging the throttle unit and then turning the key on to see if it ceases.Yes if your RPM signal goes from 0 to 125 it is definitely seeing movement. It is a hall effect sensor so there isn't a lot of room for it to erroneously give a signal, they just don't work that way. It is possible to have it give a signal and be a no good signal.... but to be non-functional and still give an RPM signal is nearly impossible.
I unplugged the throttle body and the sound was still there. When I unplugged the wire connector to a device directly behind the throttle body, it stopped. Reconnected it. With key on, the sound isn't coming up again.The RPM actually goes from o to 113. Is that still within spec?What do we do next as the error codes P1601 and P2108 is still there?
Sounds like perhaps the purge solenoid...did it have two hoses attached to it? Kind of odd for it to be making noise with the engine off though.The RPM doesn't really have a cranking specification, though we usually see closer to 250 (the 125 I was just rounding off your figure from memory). Slow cranking speed can affect the rpm obviously. The only way to test for certain would be to use an oscilloscope and verify the squarewave is occurring.With the two throttle body codes we are in a bit of a pickle... P1601, if there is no wiring damage it is indicating a faulty PCM. There is no further testing for this provided in the service manual... simply replace the PCM (Easy for them to say, I know).For P2108, this normally indicates a PCM failure as well, with all other things being equal (previous inspections we made and no wiring problems). The only extended testing that would be done would be throttle position inspections.... however these are automatically out of the question due to the throttle unit not moving at all.If your scan tool supports it, you can check your TPS Main voltage is within range (0.35-4.8v), and if it is out, double check your fuses again to make sure nothing was overlooked (if not, indicating no power from PCM). You can also check your APS (gas pedal) sensor for normal output... but again this won't affect anything if the throttle unit is not powering up. I think this 2108 is more likely to be a side effect of the 1601 were I to guess. Normally the only time we see throttle unit failures is with paired with a P2100... when that one comes up, the unit is dead typically.This is a bit of a tough situation as you have one and possibly two quite expensive parts that are being indicated faulty.Is there any back story I missed/forgot about how this all came to be? It sure seems like there is a whole mess of problems to have cropped up all at once.
Yes, I think its got 2 hoses. Somewhere around the middle of the device also has what looks like a gear. The sound stopped after I disconnected and reconnected it.I am getting confused my self as the issues at hand now never existed before.There isn't any story related to the throttle. The scan is my first discovery of the throttle having any issues.I guess I will have to save up for another PCM.
Hm... not exactly sure what that is, I would probably need a picture.... we are getting a bit sidetracked at that though; it is likely the emissions valve and maybe even related to that 443, but certainly should prohibit starting.The throttle body being dead (or at least unresponsive) will prevent starting though.When you say "another PCM" is that just in general, or did you replace the PCM once before on this?
Yeah, lets just leave out that device for now. Will send a picture later.Have not replaced the PCM before. Just saying in general that if this one is dead, then I need to get a replacement.
Oh okay, I was getting a bit worried there that maybe you had had it swapped and that is where the throttle malfunction came from.I really really hate saying a PCM is bad because it is so rare, but that sure seems to be the case here.I just wonder if that was the issue all along and the additional problems may have stemmed from the repair shop poking around?
I agree with you that all the other issues may have come from the poking around.I check the voltage on pin 2 (the harness side) i get a reading of 5.05V. this I guess means the PCM is sending voltage to it right?Using my hand to open the throttle, its a bit hard to turn. is that normal? Thought it should be a soft thing to turn.
Pin 2 I believe will be the position sensor voltage in. Then pin 4 is voltage out... which is how the PCM determines where the throttle is set. There are two throttle position sensors in the throttle unit that use pins 1-4 to operate.The motor receives power and ground on pins 5 and 6. The throttles have a heavy spring on them.... they will not open easily by hand, however once they start opening it does not get any harder or rough etc. It is strong enough that if it was open under it's own power (gas pedal propped down for cleaning, for example) and your fingers were in there and it snapped closed, you would mess your fingers up pretty good.If you wanted to check outputs at the PCM, you would look for the following:105 no test available106 (throttle pin 2) TPS input 4.5-5.5V113 (throttle pin 3) TPS output voltage through throttle (can not be tested disconnected) 2.2.-2.8V closed, 3.8-4.9V open (by hand)115 (throttle pin 1) TPS output voltage through throttle (can not be tested disconnected) 0.2-0.8V closed, 3.8-4.9V open (by hand)133 (throttle pin 6) motor + > Battery voltage at 'fully open' then decreasing slightly as the motor closes (2V roughly)141 (throttle pin 5) Motor - > Battery voltage at 'fully closed' then decreasing slightly as the motor opens (2V roughly)
kindly see below picture of device that stopped clicking.
what device is this and is what look likes a gear there able to rotate?
That is your EGR valve.It shouldn't click though. It is PCM controlled so it is anyones guess if it is malfunctioning or the PCM was powering it up in error.It does not rotate, just opens to allow exhaust gases into the intake under deceleration, etc.
Guess its time to rest and get back to you after I have gotten a PCM replacement.
No problem.Unfortunately I do not see any other place to go.Until that throttle body is functioning correctly, the engine is not going to run. While either the PCM or throttle unit can be at fault, the tests at the throttle unit all come up OK, and with no obvious wiring issues the PCM is going to be the required next step.Be aware that if you have immobilizer on this vehicle (which you should), the keys will need to be programmed to the new PCM. We will at least be able to verify throttle unit operation though before hand... the keys will just prevent the injectors from working, nothing else.
Decided to do a second test on the TPS.
Got the following readings106 (throttle pin 2) TPS input got 5.02V113 (throttle pin 3) TPS output voltage through throttle got 0.01V115 (throttle pin 1) TPS output voltage through throttle got 0.4V closed, 4.2V open (by hand)133 (throttle pin 6) motor got 0.08V141 (throttle pin 5) Motor got 0.08V
Hi,5 and 6 are definitely an issue as that means the PCM is not sending any power at all to the throttle motor.Pin 1 is low but probably acceptable....The pin 3 not showing any voltage is a bit suspect though. Keep in mind these readings while done at the throttle unit are testing the voltages coming from the PCM as well as through the throttle.Because of this, the pin 3 reading is somewhat scary as it could indicate an issue in the throttle. I would still remain focused on the PCM though. With regard to pins 5 and 6 showing no power, the only last check you could do which would be a bit of a longshot would be to verify power is reaching the PCM through the throttle relay. We more or less did this already by verifying two 12V readings on the socket then swapping with the MFI and verifying still two 12V readings, but just in case you could measure at the PCM.This would be pin 132 of the PCM which is a White/Black wire. It should have 12V key on 0V key off. This must be done with a meter (no test light) and with the PCM fully plugged in. If you unplug any of the PCM connectors the results will be invalid.If that checks out, there is nothing else really to consider other than the PCM given all the inspections we have covered. We would want to check those voltage readings at the throttle after replacement to verify they were back into spec of course.
Thanks for always being there.
I am in a fix. I got a guy who say he's got a replacement for my PCM. Problem there is that the outer case doesn't have a sticker indicating my pcm part number (MN132637). How do I confirm that its actually the right one before he messes things up the more for me.
Hi,Unfortunately you really can't easily.You have one thing in your favor, and that is Mitsubishi changes the connector configuration regularly on the PCMs to avoid being able to plug them in to the wrong vehicle. Not 100% of the time, and certainly not to the extent that one year-off PCMs would definitely be different, however it is a good shot if the connector configuration is the same you are on the right track. Remember not just to look at pin shape (needle or blade, narrow or wide etc) and connector count/pin count.... but also the alignment slots that match the grooves in the connectors. If these are different, obviously the connectors won't plug in. These are all changes they make to try to avoid putting the wrong PCM in.IF it does fit, you aren't out of the woods yet. After that the only thing that you can do is plug it in, connect a full feature scan tool and read the PCM part number that is coded into it. Code readers and generic scan tools can not do this. You need a high end scan tool with full two way communication to do this... apart from the Mitsubishi tool, Launch X431, SnapOn Modis, etc those types of tools.If you can... I'd keep looking just in case you find something else, however if you can verify 100% that the pin type, count, orientation and alignment slots match then you have a 'good' chance it is right. Given the many number of years this truck was built and the very few number of years that got the 3.8, I would say the odds are against you though.Again, I would play it safe and keep looking first.
Whoa, this seems to be getting more interesting and stressful as well.
In trying to search other options I called them at the autoecms.com. The guy I spoke with said I would need to buy another anti-thief ecu for it to work with theirs and then reprogram. Told him I expected it to work with the one that comes with the car as long as it is reprogrammed but he said it would not.
why would he say that?
There is some confusion regarding the anti theft system on Mitsubishis when dealing with people that don't work on them exclusively.The key memory is stored in the PCM, requiring reprogramming of the keys after replacement. However, on older models, specifically 2001 and back, there was a separate immobilizer ECU that had to be replaced at the same time as the PCM. The reason for this was that the immobilizer ECU hard-coded to the PCM at first use, so if you replaced the PCM, that immobilizer ECU would never work with another PCM ever again. Mid 2001 this stopped however.and late 2001 and 2002 on do not need the immobilizer ECU replaced with PCM replacement. For reference, here is the bulletin Mitsubishi replaced when this problem was eliminated:
one of my spark plug wires is dead. no continuity/resistance reading.
Kindly help me out with the part number for the spark plug wires that connects coils to cylinder 1,3,5.
Pcm is coming in this week.
Hi, Sorry for the delay, we are having a large tropical storm come through so internet access is rather limited right now.For the 3.8L engine:Plug wire #1 MD374911Plug wire #3 MD374912Plug wire #5 MD374913Or you can get them as a set MD153270Be aware: It is cheaper to buy them one at a time than it is to buy the set, as of my last price update. About $32US per wire, or $128US for the set. No clue why that is.
Good news - i got another PCM. No error codes.
Bad news - still won't start.
I have not reprogrammed the keys. I should at least get spark right?
where do we go from here?
You should get spark regardless of key programming.The good news is that your codes are resolved, I take it you have regained throttle body operation at this point?
Using the new PCM, Yes, I have throttle body operation. However, when cranking I do not get a reading for rpm on the sensor. Tried additing fuel through the manifold, got nothing. Measured voltage at signal for coils, got between 0.5-0.7V.
Strangely, Checking further, I had to put in the old PCM, I got rpm reading of 113r/m, added fuel through the manifold. It fired up for about 30 secs though not running smoothly. checked the injectors for pulse, injectors were pulsing. Checked fuel line, no pressure.
Now I am getting a little worried.
Both the ignition and the fuel pump are controlled by the crank position sensor. If the crank sensor is not detected (and no RPM reading), then you will have neither spark nor fuel pressure (or injector pulse for that matter).If you put the new PCM in you have no spark/fuel pump/RPM signal, and when you put the old one back in you have spark and RPM signal but no operation (closed throttle body), is that correct?
Sounds like there is a bad driver in the new PCM.The only other thing that would affect the crank sensor signal would be if the PCM wasn't turning the MFI relay on, etc, however if that was the case you wouldn't have throttle body control or the ability to check codes. And of course if the crank sensor or the wiring to it was an issue, you wouldn't have crank sensor operation on the old PCM.
Not seeing rpm signal on the scan tool for the new PCM got me worried and that was why i checked with the old one to confirm. Getting RPM on the old PCM definitely means the crank sensor is fine.
just curious, how does the in-operation of the throttle body affect fuel delivery? As I said early, adding fuel into the manifold with the old PCM fired up for about 30secs. I expect it to at least idle even if it wont increase rev.
If the throttle body is not responsive, it will be unable to adjust idle accordingly. On a traditional system there would be a secondary air control valve that would adjust as needed to regulate air flow. On a electronic throttle the actual throttle plate adjusts to set idle. If it doesn't move, you can only 'get lucky' with it being able to idle or not depending on it's position, and of course no drivability will be possible. As I mentioned before when we first got to that problem... it may not be "the problem" but it definitely is "A problem". Theoretically if there is nothing else wrong it is possible that the vehicle could run with the throttle inoperative, it's a crap shoot though. Regardless the throttle problem needs to be repaired (new PCM, as we already verified). Now, assuming there are no other problems, you just need a 'good' PCM.... that it runs on ether with the old PCM is a good sign but again until we have the one problem resolved without creating a new problem (no crank signal), we can only speculate.
thanks. guess i have to request a replacement.
no problemGood luck!
Quick reminder before I state the present issue.
The new PCM gives no error code when attached and engine cranked. It just wont start. when I unplug some circuits eg. EGR, Throttle. I get codes, which makes me feel that Pcm hasn't been manipulated.
I also know that the PCM should supply 5V to the crankshaft position sensor which the new PCM does, but as soon as cranking starts the signal becomes 0V and not fluctuating.
Using the scan tool. I got the following vehicle information.
On New PCM:CID1 - MN132637AA
CVN1 - 0000A2F2
On Old PCM:
CID - MN132637BA
CVN - 0000A9EC
Does the above mean anything to you or is there any effect?
Issue: Informed the guys that supplied the PCM, they said I should get another anti-thief ECM. From all I have learnt and heard from you, that should not be the problem. The Anti-Thief only affects fuel not Spark or rev/min. They sent me a mail insisting that the only way I can overcome the rpm issue is to change the anti-thief ecu and have it reprogrammed with the PCM
How will you advice I state my case as there are no errors codes recorded.
Hi,To be clear, when you say it gives no error codes, you mean you can scan the system and there are no codes, not just that the light does not come on right?The numbers are of no real interest... the base part number is XXXXX Typically we use the engine/AT revision to see how recent the software is, but it doesn't look anything like that. As long as your base part number (MN132937) is correct you have the right unit.Correct, this system should only affect fuel pulse on spark whe the anti-theft is triggered (unprogrammed keys). It sounds like they aren't going to do anything for you until you buy a new immobilizer ecu. I maintain there is no reason for this though.Refer to the bulletin I posted previously on 8/23 indicating that it is no longer necessary after 2001 on all models.
The service engine soon light comes on when you turn on ignition, after about 10 secs it goes off. I can scan the system, I can check for data stream, I see throttle position(%) increase as I depress the accelerator, I see airflow, manifold pressure, coolant temp, etc. but no rpm when cranking.
Assume I want to buy another immobilizer ecu, what is the part number? Also if I buy another is it going to be an after market or OEM? Asking because I don't know what difference it will make if I buy another one that will probably just be like the one I have. How do I even tell if the one I am buying is not hard coded?
The guys I bought the PCM from do not sell immobilizers.
Thanks, XXXXX XXXXX to make sure we were clear on the current operation and we are.For an 03 your immobilizer ecu ("theftproof" they call it) should be MN141592 and lists for about $305.This is only an OEM part.The immobilizer ecus from 2001 onward are not hard coded... which is why you don't really need to replace it. It sounds like this place isn't going to honor any warranty unless you replace it though, which rather stinks.
What do you think will happen if I decided to use the override code? I know this whole thing really stinks. lol
But do you think there is any way they could have manipulated the software on the Pcm to cease fuel and ignition altogether?Could they have done anything differently from manufacturers specs? say changed pin location for some sensors (sorry, just thinking aloud as I am getting confused after spending so much and not know what next.
The over ride code is simply to force the fuel injectors to operate without a programmed key. It isn't going to make the crank sensor signal work. You could even unplug the immobilizer ecu entirely if you wanted then use the old PCM, you should still have spark indicating that it has nothing to do with it.While it is certainly possible for this place to have overlooked this problem in the PCM or even caused it when working on another part, they didn't program it to do this or anything of the sort. There isn't any public or private information available about internal coding of these PCMs due to the integrated anti-theft system. Pin relocation is out of the question.I would demand they send another one. Tell them you spent $300 on a new immobilizer/antitheft ecu and had them programmed and it didn't make a lick of difference, then ask them if they are going to refund you for the $300 you spent. Maybe then they will feel like sending a replacement.We need to get this PCM straightened out.... whether it is the first one that had no throttle body control or this one that has no crank sensor activity, the truck isn't going to run nor will we be able to continue any additional diagnosis (if needed) until the PCM situation is straightened out.
Thanks for the advice.
No problem.Good luck!
Just wondering :
I noticed a few differences in the layout of both Pcms. The old one has a couple of resistors around the D-134 pins area (where the sensors for the crank and cam are located) that the new Pcm doesn't have. Is it possible that the boards can have a few differences as stated above and still work/be for the same vehicle. or is it just a manufacturer defect.
Is there any possibility of having different boards of MN132637 that work for different specs or configs of engine/engine and gear?
Main Point for the day:
Got in touch with the guys, they said when I get the Pcm shipped back to them, they will give me a refund. Also said they do no have any other replacement.
Hi,It is possible, I have not had one of these apart nor do I know what revisions they may have made... if it is the same part number on this model there should be no difference, however that isn't to say that the PCM cover is the right one for the board either... all bets are off really.I take it this place is just a used PCM store and they don't do any rebuilds?
Now I have gotten to the point where the best option though expensive is what I am willing to follow.
I wish to get a brand new Pcm from mentor Mitsubishi. However I have a few questions.
1. How long will it take to process?
2. In the event they send me another, what else is there to do other than program keys?
3. If there is any issue with the Pcm (say it doesnt work like the one I told you about) will they give a replacement?.
Hi,Getting a unit from Mentor is possible but not 100%. For part number MN132637 there are only two left in the country, both in the Los Angeles warehouse.For a 2003 you should only have to program the keys. Right around this time they added VIN writing to the PCMs too, and yours could go either way. There is little to no chance that the PCM won't work... given that we know for fact that the two PCMs you have used both have faults within them (the throttle wouldn't work with one but did with the other; crank sensor wouldn't work with one but did with the other), we know there were no external factors causing the problems. If there were, the same problem(s) would be evident on both PCMs.The only risk of if not working would be if you got a used/returned unit, which leads us to your last question... no there is no return of electronics components at all (meaning the odds of getting a used/returned one are almost zero... only if a dealer snuck one in as an unopened return dishonestly).To program the keys (and write VIN if yours is in the last batch) you will need the MUTIII scan tool.
Got this reply from the mentor mitsubishi after asking my questions.
'THERE ARE TWO OF THESE UNITS IN THE COUNTRY. IT WOULD TAKE ME ABOUT 4 TO 5 DAYS TO GET IT AND ABOUT ANOTHER 4 TO 5 DAYS TO SHIP IT TO YOU. MITSUBISHI WILL NOT DROP SHIP PARTS. HOWEVER THIS PCM COMES UNPROGRAMED AND WOULD HAVE TO BE INSTALLED IN YOUR MONTERO AND PROGRAMED BY A MITSUBISHI DEALER FOE IT TO FUNCTION CORRECTLY. THE UNIT CARRIES A ONE YEAR WARRANTY FROM THE DATE OF PURCHASE AND WOULD BE EXCHANGED IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH IT, NO REFUNDS. THE WARRANTY IS GOOD AT ANY MITSUBISHI DEALER IN THE COUNTRY. I HOPE THIS ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS. LET ME KNOW IF I CAN DO ANYTHING ELSE FOR YOU'
what do you think he means by saying the Pcm comes unprogrammed? Wondering if it had anything to do with software or hardware coding of the chips etc
Hi,Unless it needs a VIN write (which again yours could go either way but I would not suspect it since that didn't really take hold until 05+), it only means you will need to have the keys programmed to it."Programmed" is a bit of a blanket statement people use with PCMs, but those are the only two concerns you would have. Unfortunately both require a MUTIII scan tool though.
Would I at least be able to start the car using the overide code?
It is possible you will be able to use the over ride code.While the over ride code is matched to the immobilizer ecu which of course won't change so your over ride won't change, the over ride feature started being discontinued in 2003, so it is hit or miss if yours still has the feature
How are you doing? Its been a while.
Upate: The purchased PCM that didn't work has been shipped back to the dealer, though I am still expecting the refund as they said they do not have a replacemnt.
In the meantime, I have been thinking about alternative options. I wish to confirm with you first.
Hi,A distributor is out of the question on this model, there is no provision for it to be installed nor anything internal to drive it.Only early RWD 6G74's use distributors. RWD applications switched to DIS around 1997 or so. FWD applications retained the distributor however.There is no swappable PCM for this vehicle. You use a DIS with coil-on-plug design that is not shared with any other vehicle.If you swap the intake manifolds and coils etc from a 6G74 you could theoretically make this work, however there is much more too it than just that. For starters you would need an entire 6G74 wire harness; the 6G75 does not have identical connections etc, you would not be able to plug the majority of the components in. In addition to this, you have the immobilizer being completely different to worry about so that would need to be swapped. The transmission control is different so you would need to swap the TCM and adapt all the wiring and hope the solenoid control is not different else you would run into shift issues or inability to drive. And then we haven't even scratched the surface of fuel control considering you will have increased displacement that the 6G74 PCM is not designed to compensate for.I could go quite a bit once ABS gets involved, the 4WD system etc, but you get the idea.It would be much cheaper to just buy a new PCM that is correct for your vehicle; trying to convert the vehicle over to 6G74 would at the least require a complete running 6G74 truck to scavenge parts from... at that point you might as well just buy a new truck or buy the correct PCM and be done with it.
I knew I could always count on you.
I WILL RATHER GO WITH ANOTHER PCM !
The last issue I had with making a purchase on mentor mitsubishi is that they wont accept my card due to increasing international fraud claims.
What do I do at this point?
Will your company policy allow that I send the money to you, you make the purchase and ship to me? I dont mind paying a fee for the service.
Your only options there would be to find someone state side that can purchase it and forward the package to you, or find an alternate payment method, such as a VISA gift card. If you have a Paypal account, they can provide your with a debit card for the account which will appear to be US sourced in nature.Unfortunately we can not act as an intermediary due to liability issues.
Good News !!!
My Gratitude knows no bounds for your expert advise and guidance in fixing my car.
I was able to get another Pcm. It was plugged in, keys were programmed. The car fired up immediately (on the first turn). I was excited like never before. In fact I restarted it like 10 times to be sure it didn't start by chance. lol
So happy I didn't let the other guys destroy my vehicle. It still felt like magic after all the stress I have been through and money wasted on the other so-called experts.
Doug, YOUR ARE THE MAN!! Thank you very much.
I have been told I still need to do some servicing as the 'tappets' on the top cylinder is a bit loud. The only other thing left is the orange light blinking in the 4WD (no green at all) and the anti-skid light on the instrument cluster.
God Bless You
Haha, I am glad to help! We were definitely certain of the problem, it was just a bit of a nightmare getting the part that you needed :)I'm glad you got the car back too; I'm sure you can imagine how expensive (or even damaging) letting them to continue to guess at it could have become.The tappets (lash adjusters) are known for getting noisy. Fresh oil and then bleeding should quiet them down (slowly rev engine from idle to 3k over the course of 15 seconds, then drop to idle for 15 seconds... repeat 30 times). If they do not quiet down or they do but come right back to noisy after sitting a few hours, then you will want to replace them. You can remove them and diesel bath them (three separate baths so that they keep getting put in fresh diesel) then pump them up with oil and reinstall.... however this has about a 50% success rate, and give the amount of labor to get them out to do this, you are better off just replacing them.The orange flashing light is indicating a fault code stored in the transfer case ecu. This is normally in relation to the front wheel free wheel clutch, however it can be other things as well such as speed sensors, etc. This would be related to your skid control light, but you would want to diagnose the transfer case light first since it can affect the skid control system (there is likely nothing wrong with the skid control system).It there is anything else I can do for you please just let me know; I am here daily... just put "For Doug" in your question to have it directed to me.
I would like to thank you again for your help. However I think I have a few issues. The vehicle seems to consume a lot of fuel, it starts one time when cold,but has hard starting issues when warm/hot.
Noticed as well on a particular day after about 1 hour in traffic, that the vehicle felt very hot, so i check the water temperature gauge - it was half way (normal i believe). However, when I checked the ECT on the scanner, it read about 213F. why would that happen if the temp gauge read normal? The only code i seem to get once in a while on the scanner is P0161.
Hi,213F is about mid way on the gauge; 210-225 or so is normal.P0161 is showing a fault in the heater on the B2S2 Oxygen Sensor, that is the one on the drivers side, farthest from the engine. It will not have any impact on your ability to start the vehicle hot or cold.It sounds like you may have a fuel issue since it is only occurring when hot and not pitching any codes.Next time you run it, when you go to stop the vehicle open the hood all the way while it sits and see if there is any change in the starting behavior.A fuel pressure test would be a good idea at this point too.For reference, it is not uncommon to see 11-15MPG out of this vehicle if it isn't given lots of highway driving; it is a bit of a pig on gas.
Thanks man. I got a bit scared seeing 213F as that to me means that the coolant is turning to steam (boiling point of water). At the time when I got the reading of 213F, the engine area was terrible hot, battery was hot etc. I turned off the engine at a point, about a minute later I tried starting the engine and it wont even crank as the starter acted as though it was gone/battery weak. I had to wait about 30mins before I could get the starter crank and the engine start.
No problem.Hopefully you have a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze in there; that raises the boiling point significantly. Normal operation is within those figures; the thermostat doesn't even open until 195F, and fan operation is about 225F.If you are having a slow cranking problem with the hard start, that is a different story from what I interpreted before.Best thing to do here is have the battery tested before anything else. This truck has been out of commission at least 3 months by my count, and that can take a beating on the battery (especially with multiple attempts to start during the process etc). If the battery checks out then we would look into the starter cable and starter itself, as both can cause issues as they get hot if there is a problem there. Start by checking the battery though or swapping in one from another car if you have a suitable one before jumping to any conclusions about cables/starter/
By saying fan operation at about 225F, how do you mean? currently, the fan works by default when the car is started. As for the slow cranking/starter not cranking, it only happens when the truck is at normal operating temperature.
The belt drive fan will work at all times, and the condenser fan will work when the AC is turned on and when the temperature gets high (225+).Test the battery; slow cranking that is temperature induced will only be battery, cable, or starter. The battery is the easiest to test and cheapest to fix as well.
Thanks. I will check that.
where is the condenser fan? I don't think I have seen any fan other than the belt drive fan
The condenser fan is on the front of the radiator/condenser assembly, viewed through the grill (not easily accessible). If you are running over-heat this fan will turn on or it will turn on with AC operation depending on refrigerant pressure level.