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P. Simmons
P. Simmons, Military Lawyer
Category: Military Law
Satisfied Customers: 26059
Experience:  Retired Marine Corps lawyer and Veterans Services Officer (VSO) with 12+ yrs. of experience.
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I joined the navy with a contract for 4 years, plus 2 years

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I joined the navy with a contract for 4 years, plus 2 years of obliserve upon completion of training. I was injured during training and was medically dis-enrolled. At that point, my 2 year contract should have been dropped. I went to the fleet and pursued a different A school while waiving advancement exams, and finally was accepted at my 3 1/2 year mark. I applied for an extension to train and am now at my second A school. However, my injuries are preventing me from continuing training. I am at my 4 1/2 year mark and I am undesignated for a rate. I found out that my 2 year contract was never cancelled, and there is no record of my separate "extension to train" on file. PSD will not recognize my page 13 stating my extension to train on the basis that it was not proper procedure. My A school admin is telling me that I am required to serve out my remaining extension (19 months) as an undesignated sailor in the the fleet. My intentions are to get out rather than waste time that could be better spent pursuing another career. Since I am in a student status, I am having a hard time getting helpful answers. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Submitted: 10 months ago.
Category: Military Law
Expert:  P. Simmons replied 10 months ago.
Thanks for the chance to help. I am an attorney with over 12 years military law experience.

The rules require that OBLISERVE be completed (if required) prior to PCS. In your case, how many months of the A/C school that you agreed to OBLISERVE for did you complete?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Thank you for you timely response.


 


The particular training I was involved in has a 2 month prep course, a 3 week orientation, then a 6 month core course. I was medically dropped at the end of the orientation. I did not attend any of the core course, and at the time I was told I did not owe any obliserve due to it being an involuntary medical disenrollment. I was put on limited duty for about 10 months before PCSing to my next command. I noticed the extension had not been dropped as I applied for the next school, at which point I brought it up to the command career counselor. He contacted Millington and I signed a page 13 stating that I was extended until completion of training, at which point I would reenlist with obliserve included.

Expert:  P. Simmons replied 10 months ago.
I think there is some confusion...even with a medical drop, the regs require obliserve. But it is prorated (you only owe for the portion of the course you participated in)

But this begs a broader question...why are you still in at 4.5 years? Why was this not raised at the 4 year mark? Or did you incur additional obliserve for your second attempt at an A school?
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

I was told by PSD upon being dropped that I did not owe obliserve, however it would not surprise me to learn that I was misinformed. The voluntary disenrollment guys were prorated I know.


 


The 2 year extension was never cancelled, or even pro-rated. I sat down with my career counselor and he established the "extension to train" with the detailer in Millington I believe. That would take me to my graduation at which point I would re enlist; the re enlistment contract would have the obliserve for my current A school. I signed a page 13 stating this in order to be accepted into the program.


 


 

Expert:  P. Simmons replied 10 months ago.
Sorry for the delay. Just a moment please, I need to pull a regulation
Expert:  P. Simmons replied 10 months ago.
There are two separate regulations that apply here...it is good to understand them both

The first is the reg that applies to obliserve. You can see it here

MILPERSMAN 1306-604


If you look at MILPERSMAN 1306-604, you see that obliserve is required if you attend a formal school (A or C) but that

If the members current service is sufficient to cover the obliserve requirement? Then there is no obliserve requirement. In other words, if you started school with 4 years on the contract, and the obliserve requirement for the school was 3 years? Then you would not have to serve any additional time.

On the other hand, if you had 4 years of service left and the obliserve was 6 years? Then you would owe two.

Take a look at the chart in para 3b

If your school was 31-38 weeks (and what you describe it was 9 months or 36 weeks) then your period owed would only be 42 months.

So I think there may be some confusion on the basic obliserve terms. If that is the case? I would point this out through your chain of command to adjust your EAS properly.

HOWEVER, if you stated in the NUC field, AEF and ATF you have to look at a separate reference

it is

MILPERSMAN 1510-030


If this was you? Then you have to look at the table in para 10 to see what your obligations are.


Let me know if you have more questions...happy to help if I can



Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Both of the school fell under ATF. Therefore according to that instruction I owe the extension.


 


That being said, High Year Tenure for an E3 is 5 years, I am at 4.5


 


http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/messages/Documents/NAVADMINS/NAV2012/NAV12198.txt


 


This is the most recent HYT update to my knowledge.


 


Navy.mil broke it down here.


 


http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=68125


 


Which instruction takes priority in the case?


 


 

Expert:  P. Simmons replied 10 months ago.
Ahh...yes, you are stuck with the 4+2 then if you were ATF.

HYT applies to extensions and reenlistment. If you are past HYT, you are prohibited from reenlistment or extension (absent a waiver). It will not impact current contracts. So HYT is not going to give you a basis to demand release.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Thank you for the clarification.


 


That being said, what would be your opinion on the best reasonable means to get out given the current policies?


 


Reasonable being defined as within the rules, not threatening suicide, failing urinalysis, incurring huge dept, etc


 


If I am not mistaken, under the Perform to Serve instruction the CO has the authority to approve early separation upon request.


 


Also isn't there a program where getting accepted to a college an early separation can be approved?


 


I am not looking to "beat the system," I just feel like I can become a much more productive member of society elswhere than biding my time as a 5-6 year unrated seaman. Thank you so much for your time and help. I really appreciate it.

Expert:  P. Simmons replied 10 months ago.
The early out for school is one way...I believe the limit is 3 months...but that is a start.

Another way is if you have a deeply held religious belief that precludes your participation in the service. If you have such a belief you can apply for conscientious objector status. This can take several months to process but if it applies to you? An easy way out.

Other than that? Good luck...it is not easy to get out early. But one thing you can try is simply to ask. The Navy can discharge you early...they can do it for "good of the service". Typically that does not apply to a simple request to leave. Such requests are typically denied. But it never hurts to ask. IF your chain of command supports you? If your commander will go to bat for you? Then they can discharge you early under a GOS discharge.

P. Simmons, Military Lawyer
Category: Military Law
Satisfied Customers: 26059
Experience: Retired Marine Corps lawyer and Veterans Services Officer (VSO) with 12+ yrs. of experience.
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