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Dr. Mark
Dr. Mark, Psychotherapist
Category: Mental Health
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Experience:  Dr. Mark is a PhD in psychology in private practice
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Hey Dr Mark...me again! I have two different questions that

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Hey Dr Mark...me again! I have two different questions that need your expert advice on. If I need to send a seperate email for each, just let me know. The first deals with the aftermath of this "BOB the EFFICIENT LIAR" thing. The second involves my parents, specifically my mom. So before I ask my questions, I'll wait for your response on how I need to ask them. Julia
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Mental Health
Expert:  Dr. Mark replied 1 year ago.
Hi Julia!


I don't know if I like calling Bob the "efficient" liar. It's too....somehow neutral. What's an alternative moniker?


I don't know how to advise on whether we need to open two threads, one each for Bob and your mom. It depends on how complex the situations are and the discussions need to be on each. So use your judgment at the moment and if we need to adjust, we will, okay?


I'll await your reply (replies). Be patient as I'm seeing clients in my office and Skype all day and I'll be intermittently here. Thanks,


Dr. Mark
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Hey Dr Mark..


Sorry to be off grid so long today...crazy day!


 


How about "shit head deceptive self-indulgent pathetic narcissistic perfect store liar". We could refer to him as SHDSIPNPST Liar :D


 


Well I'll start with Bob, did I tell you that I answered the phone? I


did it for completely selfish reasons. I wanted to find out how much


he would lie to me... it made me feel empowered that I could see him


and the lies coming this time...he did not reveal that he had been


arrested 3 weeks ago for dui, resisting arrest, blowing a .198 blood


alcohol and racking up numerous traffic violations by drinking


drunk as a skunk. I did not reference it but just asked how this week


was looking (he had a court date on Tuesday - since the call on Sunday, the date was postponed). He referenced Jim about a couple of things like they were still friends (Jim refuses to have anything to do with him). He has no idea that I know all about the arrest and I did not let on that I did.


 


He told me that I was a most awesome and wonderful friend and that he loved me very much. I merely said "thanks". He also talked about being a "good person who never deliberatey hurt anybody"....he then asked me if I thought he was a good person. I told him that we all have our demons and that determination was between him and his God and not for me to say as my opinion matters not. Oh he didn't like that answer. He sought validation about numerous things and either did not say or changed the subject.


 


I will tell you that the moment I answered the phone I knew it was a


mistake in that he seemed rejuvinated that I talked to him..so in that regard I did damage by giving him that sense that he was ok and the rest of the world is f'cked... but at that moment I didn't care so much as I wanted some sense of my "normal" back and I wanted to feel in control and immune to his lies. So I decided the ends justified the means. I want to assure you that I have no romantic feelings of any kind for Bob. I find him to be a joke, a pathetic waste of humanity, and


SO want to call him every name in the book and reveal to him that I see who and what he is now and I will never be his friend. I didn't say all that because I felt it would give him the upper hand again...that's not reality, just feelings...


 


Anyway...now I am dealing with not only feelings of being gullible and naive to how this world operates but this also brings up so many feelings concerning my ex-husband alcoholic and how could I not


have seen thru Bob. I lived with an alcoholic for 18 years and it took me about 16 of those years before I ever realized that I was not the problem even though Mark had convinced me that everything that was wrong in his life was my fault. So I just kept pretzeling to try and fix it. I still dream about Mark on occassion and every time I do, its always the same type dream. He and I are back together and he tells me how unattractive I am to hi sexually and he has someone else. (I am actually tearing up as I'm writing this and I've been divorced over 12 years! ) I'm a fairly normal looking woman btw. Look younger than I am, slightly overweight (who isn't) but most would call me cute. About 2 weeks before Mark asked for the divorce, he asked me to go for a walk with him at the nearby state park one Sunday morning. I jumped at the chance since he hadn't done anything with me in several years.


We went to the park and was very blunt in telling me how sexually unattractive I was and that I made him miserable. The scars from all that still haunt me today and its the very type of thing that happens in those dreams. He ambushes me with very cruel actions after I think that he loves me again.


 


I tell you all this because I see that I have fallen for a similiar type of deception. The first night I was with Bob we were intimate. The next


morning I asked him if he had any thoughts about our chemistry after 36 years and he immediately told me to "whoa...don't put the cart before the horse...let's go slow." It seemed an odd response to me at the time and I chocked it up to being my fault. But now I'm thinking that he didn't really find me attractive or worth his time, I was just a port in any storm. I just can't seem to get my head around someone doing this to anyone, and that I had no clue! I have just come to accept that men are not going to find me attractive for some reason and that's fine. I have my dog. But I don't understand how I could not question or see the inconsistencies that kept me coming back for more. I fell in love this man and I was so competely duped. How can that happen to a reasonably intelligent, already been there and lived with an alcoholic, person be this duped??


 


Obviously Bob is not the "good guy" that he wants everyone to believe he is, but he has NO IDEA that damage he leaves behind in his wake.


 


So how do I get my sense that I can actually manuever thru this life without being a complete idiot when it comes to judging or ever trusting people every again?


 


Jules

Expert:  Dr. Mark replied 1 year ago.

Hi Julia.

Julia, it's time to have a serious talk about narcissism. But before that, I like this moniker better. But it's too long to use. Keep refining it, please...

Julia, let me start by saying that you are still treating Bob as though he's normal with a problem. That's getting you into trouble. You realized that after the phone call. Let me show you how insidious it is:

You said he was looking for validation. No. That would be a normal thing for a normal person to do. Bob was probing and examining, looking for an opening. If being the sensitive, hurt male gets him into your orbit, great. If being standoffish gets him an advantage, great.

Narcissists are not normal, they turn EVERYTHING into validation of themselves. If you tell him he's every bad swear word you know, he'd be validated. Got it?

You're only hurting yourself when you have ANY contact with him. He can not be hurt by others because he has more defenses than Osama Bin Laden had. You have to realize this or you will continually wind up a casualty.

It is very difficult for people to imagine how pervasive NPD is. They tend to keep doing things with the narcissist as if he's normal. Then they get burned and they are very hurt. He will alternate charm and invective. You will be hurt. You are a normal person and have a view of personality that we call "whole". Your view does not allow for what has happened to his personality: it has become "fractured". What do I mean?


Let's use a parable of a house. You understand personality as being an open plan. There is the main big room where everything in the personality is and there are some smaller rooms off the main room, but they all have open doorways so that there is a unity there. If a person reacts from one of those smaller areas in his personality, it is coherent with the rest of the house, it fits into the decorating scheme of the main room, etc. It's all unified.

He isn't like that. He has different closed rooms. When he says something to you, it responds to some need and "truth" of a certain room. When he wants something else, it responds to a different room that contains that "truth". They don't have to agree for him to feel he is being okay and truthful. Because they are responding to different needs in him. Like different closed rooms.

You would not be able to feel whole that way. You would feel rather creepy. Well he doesn't feel whole. But he doesn't know how to feel whole. And he doesn't know what feeling whole is like. And this by the way is part of what makes him charming to women: they (and you) get their "I can fix him" module all tingling because they and you can sense that broken aspect. But....you would be messing with locked rooms that are protected by fire breathing dragons...

Julia, it sounds as though Mark may have been narcissistic as well. I can't say. But my concern is that you recognize that for a narcissist it's never about you, it's always about him. Therefore, the only victory for you is to move on. Like Jim and his wife. Move on. Don't try to get a small victory, don't try for anything other than to thank G-d that you are the person you are and not like him. Be grateful for that. This is your victory.

Okay, I wish you the very best!

My goal is for you to feel like you've gotten Great Service from me and the site. If we need to continue the discussion for that to happen, then please feel free to reply and we'll continue working on this. If the answer has given you the help you need, please remember to give a rating of 5 (Great Service) or 4 (Informative and helpful), or even 3 (Got the job done) button. This will make sure that I am credited for the answer and you are not charged anything more than the deposit you already made by pressing any of these buttons. Bonuses are always appreciated! If I can be of further help with any issue now or in the future, just put "For Dr. Mark" in the front of your new question, and I'll be the one to answer it. All the best, XXXXX XXXXX

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Hey Doc.....


Wow, you are so incredibly insightful! And dead on...I am doing that -


thinking of him as being "normal" with problems.


 


Yes, I do think Mark was also this way to an extent, not as bad as


Mark but definitely similiar. When I got divorced, I met with a counselor for a bit. She described Mark as a narcissistic sex addict (he watched and made me participate in a lot of very kinky weird sex...then would condemn me afterwards for not being "flexible enough, sexy enough, whatever enough"... then he would say I didn't like sex. Well, not with someone who constantly ridiculed me when I was at my most vulnerable...DUH.


 


So just one last little bit about "Bob the uber narsissistic alcoholic liar"... what can I do to establish a shield or warning button in the future to distinguish a "normal with issues" person from someone like this? I mean, are there some sort of exercises, mantras, things to watch for???


 


Jules


 


 

Expert:  Dr. Mark replied 1 year ago.
Yes.


When you start feeling like you're being either treated way too much like a princess, then the narcissist is in the snare them in mode.


And when you then feel like you're being treated like you're an extension of his needs and desires, then you're in the he's got you already mode and you're just there to use.


So, when you feel either extreme, that's your warning bell. Normal people give and take, give and take, give and take. They don't go to the extremes. Narcissists do.


Trust your warning bell: when it's so good, warning bell. When it's so bad, warning bell.



Okay, I wish you the very best!

My goal is for you to feel like you've gotten Great Service from me and the site. If we need to continue the discussion for that to happen, then please feel free to reply and we'll continue working on this. If the answer has given you the help you need, please remember to give a rating of 5 (Great Service) or 4 (Informative and helpful), or even 3 (Got the job done) button. This will make sure that I am credited for the answer and you are not charged anything more than the deposit you already made by pressing any of these buttons. Bonuses are always appreciated! If I can be of further help with any issue now or in the future, just put "For Dr. Mark" in the front of your new question, and I'll be the one to answer it. All the best, XXXXX XXXXX

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Ok cool. I gotta crash now...thanks so much. ill ask you about mom tomorrow.Appreciate the help.. and info. i dont feel as naive and gullible now.


 


jules

Expert:  Dr. Mark replied 1 year ago.
Julia,


That's great. Have a great weekend. If you would give a positive rating, I'd be very grateful. We can continue even after you give a rating.


All the best,
Dr. Mark
Dr. Mark, Psychotherapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5111
Experience: Dr. Mark is a PhD in psychology in private practice
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