I would like to help you with your question.
I am sorry that you are feeling so pessimistic about the world we currently live in. There is no denying that monsterous things occur in our world today so much so that they can overshadow the good that does exist...for it truly does exist.
I do understand your thought process here. When you think about bringing an innocent child into the world, you want to provide that life with safety, security and protection for seen and unseen threats. You want to be able to wrap that baby in love and know that no harm will ever ever come to them. But when you look out at the world you live in today...those thoughts of a loving world that is safe and offers no threat of harm...just does not seem to exist for you. And then you say to yourself...what am I to do?
You are thinking as hundreds and thousands of prospective parents do! Before embarking into the world of parent and bringing a child into the world...this is the kind of thinking that really needs to happen.
I encourage you to continue to see this thinking as part of the decision process that you and your husband need to take in order to come to a final decision. Truly you are doing the right thing here because you are taking your responsibility of parenting seriously and want to make a good and right choice for you and your husband.
Many people do chose not to have children. And their reason might be the same as yours...not wanting to subject their offspring to a cruel world. Other people have medical problems that they do not want to pass on to an innocent child. Some people have financial issues...and the list goes on and on.
There is beauty in the world...there are kind and loving people...there is goodness....but there are times when these things are so hard to realize or even see when we hear about and witness so many disasterous events.
If you continue to feel so negative about life...I would like to encourage you to see a psychologist to help you work through this pessimistic view of your life.
I await your reply.
Thank you for your answer. Though, maybe I wasn’t clear enough. Let me try again: I don’t worry about this unborn child or not being able to provide security. The problem is that I see no purpose in having children since mankind is getting worse and worse. To me, being on this Earth has always been about evolving as a species, growing as a mind and embettering oneself. I don’t see that happening anymore, so why should I put my body through a lot of stress (pregnancy is no easy deal and I love my bikini body) and change my whole way of life (couples with no children have way more freedom) so a person can be born into a dying world. I made myself a list of pros and cons of having a child and there is no good logical reason why anyone should have a baby. Emotionally, I don’t feel anything missing in my life, and maybe having a baby to me was something I thought in the past was part of a full life. To me, it was about giving back to society by raising a person who could play his/her role in the world as anything they wanted to become(of course). I mean, you never know how your child is going to turn out, but you do your best to raise a well-adjusted human being who can function in society and do something good. I lived for a very long time by the rule of doing my share, even if others don’t. Even one person being a drop in the ocean, it is one more drop in the ocean. I work for a government and every day I try to work well, when I go home I think whether my government spent good money on me, and every day I go home with a clean conscience. But now this belief in what’s right, this belief in mankind is shaken. It feels that so many people would rob and harm others if they knew they would get away with it. What kind of people are these? I mean I am not perfect, far from it, but come on, killing, robbing, raping, torturing, humiliating, debasing taking advantage of others, what kind of world is this? More importantly, why would anyone would want to live in a place where so many people are like that?
Please give me a few minutes to read through your posting.
You raise some very important..and deep...questions about life...about our world...and what the possibilities are if this society continues in such a destructive, disrespectful, and immoral way.
I just feel so pessimistic
But just as you could accept this status quo...you also could say..NO...I am not willing to accept this picture of our future. I will continue to do my part...be that drop into the ocean...that is good, that is compassionate, that wants to contribute to a peaceful and healthy society.
I go on just trying to do my share and enjoy the day
Yes..it certainly does sound like you do that...that you are mindful of your contribution to the world ... and in your own way are both humble and proud.
I get a sense that you have one foot in the world of beauty and peace...and another in the world of negativity and pessimism.
But right now that negativity seems to have more influence...
Does that sound possible?
I plan to keep being that drop in the ocean
but I cannot have a baby and put an innocent person through all that
And that is your decision not to bring a baby into this world...and that is the right decision for you.
I am still not at peace with it
with this decision
What do you think is the part that is unsettling for you?
Is it about societal pressures? About family expectations?
Is there more? Is it letting down your spouse?
Are you feeling selfish?
he doesn't feel the same way
he is more optimistic
I am afraid to change my mind when it is too late
25 years from now
nowadays there are options, I don't have to have a child right now, my gynecologist suggested that I could have my eggs frozen
but still, I would be postponing something I have to decide
Usually I have no problems deciding things
I just don't know what to do
Yes...you could freeze eggs ... and yes...in a way you would be postponing a decision. However, if you absolutely do not feel prepared to make a decision today...then it is NOT really postponing...it is waiting until you have the ability to make a decision.
Sometimes we need more information, more time, more maturity...
And it is important to give yourself the time you need to come to a decision that will last the test of time.
also my childhood was not the happiest, my parents split when I was very little and even though they are both medical doctors and tried to shield me from pain, I suffered
The issue here in my mind is not having any regrets...as you say not waking up 20 years from now and regretting that you made too quick a decision.
And so is part of your worry that your marriage will not last?
That is a very different concern then worries about our world...
what if my marriage doesn't work, what if the stress of having a baby contributes for the marriage not working
Right now everything is great, we can travel, we don't have to worry about anything.
I really don't feel well about this
it almost makes me physically sick
I can only imagine how upsetting this is to you...
I'm sorry that it makes you ill...
That tells me of the magnitude of the decision.
Let me offer you some perspective.
Your parent's marriage is NOT your marriage.
The divorce of your parents does not predict that you will follow suit.
It is true that some pregnancies are stressful on marriages, there is no guarantee that this will or will not happen to you. That is something you cannot control at this particular point in time. It is a gamble you can chose to take..or not take.
Today...your pessimism about our world has you feeling negative about a pregnancy.
Tomorrow...you may or may not feel so pessimistic. It is a gamble.
There are many, many aspects of a pregnancy that are unpredictable.
There are many, many aspects of birthing that are unpredictable.
There are many, many aspects of our daily life that are unpredictable.
We live in a world that is chaotic and random.
There are no guarantees...absolutely none.
What is predictable is that tomorrow morning will turn to evening...
And...that pattern will repeat itself day after day after day
Beyond that...life is random...
Does this make sense to you?
yes all of it
I agree 100%
What do you conclude from this...
I used to like the randomness of life,
like when you go to a shopping mall and you meet your childhood friend who you don't see for years
I used to think that was beautiful
I think I am seeing everything from this very bad angle and I don't know what triggered that
I was always so full of life, so happy to be a part of the world
I think it might have been a mix of horrible world events happening, me thinking about having a baby and the fears of putting that child through suffering both in a marriage that might not last (no guarantees, like you said and I agree) and a world that is now becoming worse and worse
I mean what would I offer to this new life?
As you said...when you began to think about bringing a life into the world you began to examine life more closely...more intently then you had in the past.
Randomness feels scary when you think about a vulnerable life....
Randomness feels scary when you think about the ability to surround a baby with two loving parents.
In my perspective, the answer to "what would I offer to this new life" is YOU!
me, am I enough?
The bond between a child and their parent is something that transcends everything!
not sure if I agree with that
many people don't have such great bonds with their parents
and I am no better than them
what if this new person is completely different from me
If you decide that you want a child...then you must trust that the bond you form will be the foundation from which that child will be able to grow in the world. At the same time, you must accept your own limitations...that you cannot provide your child with everything they need...that you will have to enlist the support of others to help you nurture and raise this child.
Good questions and thoughts...
True...many people have terrible bonds with their parents...but then I would ask: in what ways to that parent make themselves available to that child? did they dedicate themselves to the task of parenting? or did they foolish believe that they would have no serious responsibility for providing for that child, for nurturing their spirit, for making space in their heart for that child?
Here the focus is "intent"...what did was their intentions?
And absolutely...you are but a mere mortal...you come into parenting with no special skills, no magic wand, no exemption from pain and disappointment and frustration, but free - absolutely free - to love.
And...you will NOT birth a clone.....
This person will have their own identity...their own personality...their own mind...
yes I know, I think about that
a lot, it is one of the things that when I bring up to my spouse or friends they say they never thought about that
They will be a tabula rosa - a blank slate...and you & your spouse will be writing upon that blank slate to some degree, but nature and nurture will have their place...
and weirdly they don't consider it to be important
I don't see children as tabula rasa
Well...I can only say that they are not as deep a thinker as you...
We all come into the world with a blank slate...they are an empty vessel...and it is up to parents, friends, family, teachers, preachers, and so forth to shape and form that empty vessel.
what I think is that I cannot comfort myself thinking I will have so much power, I will not. I think sometimes it doesn't work well between children and parents because their inner self is so different
Sometimes that shaping is appropriate...sometimes it is not...
That is not my experience or my philosophy...
what do you mean?
To me...that has to do more with bonding...and the messages the child heard in the womb and in the early formative years.
you think? I don't know, I really don't know what to think
And yes...a parent does have power...particularly in those early years...
I truly adore my mom and she is very different from me, maybe you have a point there
What makes you say that your mom is very different from me?
she is shy, sweet, and sees life through a biological lenses
also she is well organized and doesn't deal well with changes
I am very outgoing, sometimes a little too honest and I graduated in law, so my lenses are a little bit different
I am not organized and I love to change
I love her with all my soul
but she is so different from me
But what you are describing are behaviors...not the core of her - or your - personhood.
See the behaviors:
being shy or sweet is not a behavior
In my world it is...you can "learn" to be more outgoing...you can chose to be "shy"
And sweet....you can chose to be sweet or anger or meek or agressive
yes but some people are born like that, you just decide to make the effort to change, if you want
you are naturally shy and then you decide to battle that and learn to be more outgoing
another person is naturally outgoing so no battle there
I understand what you mean by the bond
that is constructed
but some people are just too different at their core (maybe that's where we disagree a bit)
Yes...that is a possibility...but I would say that for the most part that is not true...
The reason being that the values, beliefs, and morals that parents impart to their children have a tremendous role in setting the stage for how that tabula rasa grows...
but that would imply that children of "bad people" will be bad people too and that is not true
not necessarily, at least
I did read an article about how children who were abused by their parents would in many cases grow up to be the abuser they hated so much
But if a child is not provided with healthy morals and values - if that is absent from their world - how do you think that child will learn to be compassionate, kind, honest? From whom?
We call that the cycle of violence....and yes...it is what most often occurs...if you were beat as a child..you will beat as an adult....That's because you learn that this is acceptable and appropriate behavior in your world.
I should say society but I don't truly believe in it
that was the answer to your question
you are right, maybe parents have more influence on their children than I thought
But our core beliefs come from our primary caregivers... not from society at large.
yes, of course there are cases and cases
but I agree that in most cases that's how it works
Yes...they do...particularly in the early formative years...
you do realize that you are saying that some children are doomed
just because they didn't win the lottery of the womb, to quote Warren Buffet
Yes...there are always exceptions...always the possibility that a child will rise above the dysfunction in their family of origin...but most often that will depend on the influence of one or more people who will provide the child with the missing "ingredients" that were not provided by the family of origin...
No...I am not saying that...I am saying that at our very best we - as members of society - make an effort to assist in nurturing/supporting/loving others...that we participate in being the village that raises the child...
Interesting quote from Buffet!
Dr L. I don't know how the site works, I am afraid I am keeping you for too long
this is the first time I use the live chat
and actually it was the first time I used the site
We...as citizens of this society...can dedicate ourselves to living healthy lives and, in turn, to take responsibility for nurturing the next generation...whether we become a volunteer in a school classroom, take a job in a nursery...and so forth...
Yes...we have spent a great deal of time chatting...more than usual. Typically we answer a single question and that is that...
thank you so much
you really helped me
I have a lot to think about
But it is my desire to provide an answer that satisfies you and that has been my goal here.
you did, and it is not a simple issue
I am aware of that
Great! I am glad we had this chat and that I was able to feed you some new thoughts for your consideration!
Yes...I truly understand the complexity of the topic and I am VERY glad that you desire to make the right decision for you...
As you mentioned...you made a pro and con list....but that did not give you clear direction...
Again...that just points out the magnitude of the decision.
I wish you the very best as you continue to consider your choices.
If you should ever want to chat again...just ask for me by name and I will be contacted.
you truly helped me a lot, I have more to think now