Thanks...will get an answer to you as soon as I can. Steven
I have no doubt that Dr a is transferring his anger and frustration about his life on you. That is uncalled for, but he doesn’t seem to have a lot of insight. It is a shame you cannot simply get away from him. But, as much as you can, minimize contact. He is out of control. And, as to the court case: yeah, that is a risk, but if he should do this again, you have little recourse.
All of my wife’s pregnancies were very different and one she was dead tired like you. Others she had more energy. I swear it is the kid doing these things. I also saw the mystery colds come and go, and they seemed so different from when she was not pregnant. I guess it is the hormones and how they affect the body. Anyway, you are certainly right about men and breasts. Some are so obsessed that a balloon with some artistry would probably do. Cleavage is so drawing to men. We sound so much like animals. Pathetic isn’t it?
You and Dr b are a team of comedy I can tell you that. I can just picture the interaction. And yes, I think you are right. He likes the joking, slightly mean, crazy from the heat thing. I am sure you could own him if you wanted. But he is a nice friend for you and the more you talk about him the less I think he would cross that boundary. He might try, but as long as you don’t…and I do not see that you would, he won’t. And, if you did marry (say just for fun sake) I can see you saying that you would never go out to work again. Why would you? He has the career and you can stay home. Why not? I mean, you only work now because you have to. So in that situation, you would not. Fun to think about.
I could not imagine you having the baby there at work. I mean there is professionalism and then there is no way are you going to see me in all that! I get it. I think if you go into labor at work you should get a cab to the other nearest hospital. Believe me. I get this. And, Dr a being the doctor who delivers your child? I do not think so! Strong feelings about teen pregnancy? lol But really. Dr a was freaked out by this? This type of thing seems so common for all of you there. Surprise births seem to be almost the norm, so why this one freaking him out? Maybe because it was unexpected and she was so young, but really…he should be more on, and professional than this.
Again, you made me laugh with the prison and hope thing. You really come up with the stuff. Stand up could have been your calling. And, you could dress like a nurse and…wow, do you need an agent?
It might be therapeutic for you to come up with ways to torture TMM. It couldn’t hurt to think of this once in a while. Anyway, it has to be hard to get these messages all the time. What is he trying to do? I see these as not only stalking, but very hurtful. The man has no insight.
Rob wants to have sex. That is not new…but the time away from Kate is. But, I am with you on this. It seems odd that at her age there would be an invitation to her, but not you both. Yes, maybe it is the parents need some more time thing, but then again, maybe not. I wonder about this, and when I wonder like that I have to say that all the bells and alerts go off. It just sounds odd. Maybe it is harmless, really; but why take that risk?
And, there will be plenty of other parties once she is in school, so many in fact you will need a budget line for the presents. Our rule for reference: We did not allow our under 7’s to ride with anyone but us. We got the Odyssey for the five star crash thing and we both drive well. Here, there is no control at all. And, she would not sit in the middle seat. No way! And, you are not even going with her…this seems wrong on so many levels. I just do not feel, as you do, that this is a good idea. Call it parental paranoia, but I am with you. She needs to sit this one out, and the face painting is the least of it. Having Rob around do heavy lifting, well, that is great, but if this activity is connected to it…I am not sure why I feel this way, but my gut just hurts on this. I think Kate should be with you. And, what should you do? Without a doubt, have some adult time with Rob, and no…I do not mean sex.
You are not crazy, just wildly pressured. And, you need some time to relax and think things, your own things, out. Running around to parties and helping out. That is back burner stuff to me. You have been forgotten in all of this. Have fun, but not on their terms. Steven
well kates party is with my inlaws to take her so theyre invited. were not. we are kind of stuck into this b/c last night i had abreakdown and rob was supposed to get my decisoion but he didnt ask me b/c i was all upset and my inlaws already said theyre going to the party with kate. they think theyre doing us a favor b/c itll give us a little time alone and let us do what we want and be together. i think im tellin ghim to install it to middle seat and let the fat asses figure it out.
im not letting him have them drive the minvan. that would be the other alternative. but my fil doesnt drive anymore - even thought they have 2 cars - and my bil doesnt know how to drive. my bil is also going to this party. so itd be my mil driving and i dont think could handle it. esp in queens. its not like you dont parallel park and stuff. out here its easier to handle. rob is all excited he wants to go to the movies and have sex. and i feel like the bad guy in all this. cuz i am. im the kiljoy.
here is the post i wrote last night. i was essentially couldnt stop crying for hours over this. its hard for me to figure out if im just preg and overly sensistive or im justified in all this. i prob wouldve cried but for not as long. or maybe i wouldve been more angry and just said f**k you to all of them. ive come this far without them.
well ic alled jeanne to find out what was going on.. if there was a better day for her etc. so i spoke with jeanne and she told me shes leaving sat am. they just finished cleaning out the house. i said what? she said yep. the house is done. we had junk removal come to take the tonbs of garbage bags and to do the garage. she said the movers are taking her stuff tomorrow to bring to oklahoma. so i figured that she took the dining room set and chair she liked and whatever else. she said oh i de cided to forget the dining room set. so i said why? she said b/c to move it there and we dont have any room - i have a dining room set. that i knew but she always seemed dead set on it.. who could question it? now i said oh what happened to it? she said the used furniture guy came and only wnated the china cabinet and paid them for it. he said the chairs were loose and he didnt think the table or the living room set would sell. so i said so its there? she said no we had the junk guy take it. now id say like a week or 2 before grandma died, i told my mother i would take the dining room set as i dont have one. and of course offer it to my brother ina year or 2 when we got our own. and they could use it unitl they got a set. if they got a house. currently they dont have room theryre in an apt. so essentially my mother let them throw it out when i couldve rented a hertz truck and had a whole dining room set to put the dishes in the china cabinet and linens and silverware in the server. which would free up space in my kitchen so i would be able to have more stuff actually inside my house instead of in my garage. i asked jeanne if we could meet up either day and she said she s packing fri and the movers are coming tomorrow and essentially sorry but im leaving saturday. i told her i felt bad i didnt help more. she said no no.we didnt expect help the 3 of us did it, faster than i thought we would, but we did it. she said youre preg you dont need to do more than you are, and you work hard enough etc. and that youre fine (like she isnt upset i didnt come to help) , dont worry. she said it was really hard watching them taking the furniture and stuff but you cant take everything with you and it had to be done. we ended up getting off the phone after 20 min or so and i just started hysterically crying. 1st off. why did my mom say if youre not taking the set...let me call elizabeth see if she wnats it? she doenst have one. we couldve moved it this weekend. we wouldnt have held them up in emptying the house out. its not like the house is even for sale. its not the nicest set. its not mahogany dont get me wrong. its medium wood and it has the wicker back chairs.. but the table and furniture were in pristine condition, it had table pads and i cleaned it plenty to know there wasnt a scratch on it. believe me. the storage space wouldve helped me trmendously to give me a year or 2 to save to get the set i want. and now im stukc with this rickety table that has no chairs to match it has red folding chairs around it. dont you think her set would be a massive improvement for us? i mean i wnat thomasville once were going to get it. but itll be about 10k for all of it. the other thing is that my grandfather did all this wood working. and rob loves that stuff. he has tools of course but he fixed tons of thing son gra ndmas house with grandpas tools and they were left speciafically that if she needed a repair whoever was there had the tools. and theyre all gone. and i dont know how good of condition they are they must be very old now - grandpa died the spring before 9/11. but i wouldve liked rob to see if there was soemthing he wanted. and rob was upset ot hear all the tools are gone. rob said i had every right to be upset and to calm down its not good for me or the baby. i felt so bad that jeanne seemed like she didnt even want to see us again, she promised me we would see each other again another time. but i could see it not happening. why would she coem to ny anymore? she said we could have ahuge family reunion and it could be adestination one where we all have to travel. and go soemwhere great. i said that sounds like fun just give us 3 months noticed or so so we cna get off from work. of course it depends on the destination, but who knows if we could afford to go. the 3 of them will have 300k each. and ill have you know 1k. whihc ill be spending on the house or the new baby. i have been alittle focused on the monye, rob and i have nevre gotten an inheritance. robs uncle died and we got $500. but thats about it. but.. i have been thinking oh if it was 5k we could do this. of course if i was smart i dkiss my mothers ass b/c shell have money to give us. but shes stingy and i could see her not doing that. like if it was my dad hed be like i want you to get you rroof or do your 2nd floor or soemthing hed wnat - and itd be for like oh for the babies and his daughter. granted he likes rob too and treats him like his family too. and for soemthing to improve the house. my dads all for it. hes very big on making sure the windows and doors are good and the roof etc. he wouldnt wnat me to buy the dining room set i imagine. but... itd be nice. i could see my mother giving my brother money and it being their big f**king secret. she always gave him money and i had to work from 11 to buy myself soemthing or to go to the movies. rob told me to go and lay down. instead i came to write you. im just so hurt. do you think jeanne doesnt like me? and thats why she didnt wnat to see us? i cant believe im not seeing her before she leaves. and i just feel so upset my mother screwed me out of that furniture that got thrown out. if they said they could get money for the china cabinet, i couldve paid the estate the same price to be fair if they didnt wnat the estate to lose out or for it to be fair or soemthing. they literally just threw it all out. and i just had told her id take it. its like she purposely does these things to me. i felt like calling my father to tell on her, like she tells him every shit and makes me sound like the bad guy. well i should tell him how bitchy she just was. him to know what she does to me. cuz im tire dof looking like the over reactor. at my old job i had the same pattern. people would do shit to me and i never told on them. and it had to be that people said bad thing sto knock me down there b/c i was in charge all the time and thyey wanted that charge money, or didnt like that i told them what to do. i honestly was fair and not rude. but i know not perfect. i had my moments where i could be sarcastic when i felt like people were being unfair ot others or rude or trying to take advantage. and i always kept my mouth shut. and i got run down. well if people wnat tattle tales hey i can be one. i never liked that, i always felt people would realize who i am and relaize i never tell or bad mouth and stuff. but i dont see where its gotten me in life honestly. my brother always told on me and my mother tells on me. and usually its after youve pushed me to the point im sticking up for myself and yeah maybe i did get nasty after you did.
and that last paragraph was all i wrote. i know. i was brief. lol. ok it wasnt brief.
i dont wear a nurses uniform i wear scrubs. but if you want to be my agent you go right ahead sweetie.
and btw, yes men are animals but.... well soemtimes it is fun for you to be animals. at least for me....
i let rob be an animal last night...
he already emailed me where do you want to go for dinner? what movie? etc. so i guess kate is going. my in laws said theyd keep kate overnight even to let us go out at night and not to worry. but... i dont know.
i dotn know if i should call my father or confront my mother or just act like the whole thin g didnt matter. im tired of eating everything though thats for sure. esp since my mother never holds back. i know she thinks she does. but well whatever
Kate: At the very least the car seat should be in the middle, and I do not blame you for feeling as you do here. This is crazy. It is like they just assume that Kate is going with them. To their credit, a little at least, they think it is great that you might have some down time as a result. (It is nice, but there are some usual rules about asking parents of a child some basics about permission, wants and so forth.)
This is all just assumption and action. You are hardly in the picture. I really do not feel you are out of bounds in all this. And in your defense, although time with Rob is nice, maybe sex and so on is not what you want or need right now. This is a great deal of imposition on you. No wonder you feel as you do.
This second part is a hard post to read, about your mother and Jeanne and the furniture. Let's talk about this.
There is every reason to feel sad and hurt and betrayed and alone about what happened with the furniture. This was something you told me a while ago, that the dining room was promised to you. Instead it is out who knows where, but certainly not in your possession. Worst of all, it looks like this was some sort of intentional slight against you, a retribution against you for who knows what by your mother. And, it does seem to say that you are unworthy, not even an afterthought.
Is it normal to feel hurt like this? Yes. Is it overreacting? No. This is painful. We see our value, not in words alone but in action. Here the actions speak louder than words. You are shown that some stranger, a seller of furniture, has more rights to your own grandmother's property than you do. That is harsh and painful. You cannot say that your mother didn't know you wanted these pieces, She knew, and had offered. This has to make you feel like crap. And it is not in the least an overreaction. This was mean and hurtful.
Now, Jeanne: She sounds odd, a bit. But, I did not get the impression that she was being purposefully mean in her actions. I am guessing that instead of the idea that she does not like you, that simply she might be burned out and tired and wants to go back home. I never got the impression from her that you were unliked. I did get the feeling from her that she was over her head and exhausted. That can make any one want to get out of town, quickly.
But that is no excuse for not thinking of you. She knows you wanted to help and she had to know that you have a right to some of the memories of your grandmother. A dining room set is a big piece and someone must have said let's see if Liz (or someone in the family) wants it. Why they just dumped it on the truck and hauled it away is beyond me, except that mom is holding a grudge or similar.
Now, you have said that you have not said anything in the past over things like this, and I do understand trying to make peace and staying peaceful with all. But this matter is personal at a different level. It is a part of the family history and the generations of it. You have a right to be involved in that, certainly to the point of asking and getting a dining room set that no one wanted.
Liz, take some time to let this sit, a day or so, but then it is time to talk with mom or dad or whoever about this, This kind of thing will not stop unless you air your feelings about it, and you deserve more than this pack-up-the house-quickly mentality offers. It is time that you said something. I will help you figure out how to say it if you wish, but this is needed. Steven
hi steven, is the post hard to read b/c its hard to understand?
my mom offered me the china. i told her years and years ago as a kid i liked it. i do rememebr telling her, im surprised with her she rememebrs it. since she doesnt rememebr so many other things that were said or occured making me feel like our whole past was soemhow in my head.
she was mrs brady and i was off on a f**king acid trip ruining her life house and marriage.
apparently. so it was very shocking that she remebered it. to me at least. it also made me think she rememebers more than what she says and just denies it. if she had forgvotten i had said i wanted the china.. well i could understand it was 10 yrs ago or more and not a significant thing to really rememeber.
2 weeks before grandma died we were talking and i said how jeannes telling me since im a teenager shes taking this or that and how i always felt in sulted that like i made acomment i lied sitting on a aprticular chair - and jeanne said its mine im taking it after they die. i was like 16 and hanging out and just said i always liked sitting on that chair... even though you couldnt see the tv in it.
and she often "called it." as kids would say. i always liked jeanne but always felt that was weird and rude of her. i see my parents stuff and i have no thoughts or plan on what im taking...
ok. so when i said i know jeannes tkaing the dining room set. a huge table with 2 leaves and a server or a credenza soem people call it plus the china cabinet 2 armed chairs and 6 side chairs. i said if she didnt take it i would. my mother said oh please its crap. i said yes but i have no crap. so crap is better than none.
like i said. its not mahogany. its not like huge heirloom pices. but grandma always took care of her stuff etc.
and i have this rickety old table in ym dining room with red folding chairs. and her set would be a huge improvement.
my mother said nothing and i figured it didnt matter as jeanne was taking it. if i knew she wasnt i would say to her id take the set.
i never told my mother if i wanted the china or not. she never asked me again after we fought about it. b/c she said i told them you wanted it. i said oh well what if soemone else does? i dont want anyone mad. she said well it doesnt matter. i said since when doesnt it matter? if jeanne decided she wanted her mothers china. or if arlene did since when did my needs come before theirs? she acted like i was number one here. and i tried to make it clear that i didnt want anyone upset or not talking to me b/c of this.
she was all pissed when i said what do you mean it doesnt matter if soemone else doesnt wnat it?
she then said fine, tell me if you decide you want it or not. she never asked me at the funeral and i didnt tell her i didnt want it. so i dont know what happened to the dishes. but i told her 2 weeks ago or 3 maybe now that i wanted the dining room set, but again thought it was a moot point as jeanne seemed hardcore that she was taking all this stuff. turns out jeanne took the coffee table the freaking chair and the lamp she liked.
so she rememebrs stuff from 10 years ago but not from 3 weeks? it seems spiteful. jeanne said the guy said the chairs were loose. rob the modern handyman subscriber im sure wouldve fixed them. we only need two chairs immediately - any 2 and if for soemr eason he couldnt fix it we couldve had them fixed. to have ahwole dining set instead of nothing. well i dotn know what to say.
and i dont know what to say to my father or to her. and i say her b/c i feel like at this point shes not a mother. shes not. not the way i am to kate. im kates mother and id fight or kill or die for her. and i dont feel like my mother is like that for me. and even if she didnt have strong feelings for me... well.. if theywrrent strong love ones i dont get it if she has strong dislike. i guess i was mischievious as a kid. i mean i did make a mural on the wall once. that they were pretty pissed about. and i took all my grandmothers synthroid once. if you want more antics.. well i could tell you.. but it was when i was l;ittle like 3. one time kate got a bottle of freaking syrup and poured it all over herself at 8am and i spent an hour trying to make her smell... less maple-y. but she was 18 months old. so what could i say? i still love her she didnt mean it.
i will tell my father when he gets back. theyre leaving this weekend. and they havent called me. ihavent spokne to my dad since fathers day and well whatever. my mil cant watch kate this tuesday so thats a prob. i dont know if my parents can. they havent offered to suggest when they could babysit again and its been 2 full weeks going on a 3rd theyre not babysitting. im sure if my parents were out of the picture my mil would just take over and do the 3 days. or id start just going in on wednesdays to pick kate up so shes not there 3 days week.
my inlaws spoke to rob about this stupid party and ive been otherwise occupied. my mil did bring it up a few weeks ago and told me its a catering hall and theres face painting whihc i said uh no. i was like yeah i guess, i didnt really say yes it was like oh the party blah blah. so i guess they saw no reason to think we would say no. his momw as like then you can go out and do what you want together etc.
No, it is not hard to read because it is hard to understand; it is hard to read because it is so sad. Few things feel as miserable as family rejection on this level. I can see why you are so upset. Yes, there are far worse things, but this affects how you see your role in the family and that is really hard. It makes you appear small and less than valued, and that is very hard to drink in.
I know that your mother did not simply "forget". There is no way that she could recall the china and forget all else. Why? Memory is relational, which means that the more you talk about a topic the more you recall. I have no doubt that she recalls what you said, but she may interpret it from what she thinks you need vs what you want. (of that I have little doubt.)
I think she filters all that you say through her head of control and self centered determination. So, if she thinks you should have the china, a stampede would not prevent her from getting it for you.
But, if you want something that she sees as not very valued, like the "crap" dining room, well; that is ignored, as it is not in line with what she feels you should get.
Basically she is all about control and her view of life. She does nor see you as apart from her thoughts She sees you as the same. This is also most likely why she has issues with you, as she does not separate your needs from her own. So, when you push your own needs she sees that as a rebellion against her common plan for you. You see, you have no identity apart from her in her world. You should do as she says, and thinks, and little else. That however; well, it does not work as you are an adult, and she gets into conflict with you as a result.
This is not about what you did or did not do as a child.
It is simply that she is a control person and demands full attention to her own thoughts and views. The idea that you would have your own views and actions apart from her is foreign to her. That does not dawn on her, that you are apart and separate. Instead, she acts as a director, not a mother. And, she gave you a legacy of guilt and insecurity because you never feel anything is enough. That is from her.
You can never please her because no one will ever be good enough, and that is the truth. Unless you were a mind reader and willing to completely give up your own thoughts and will, then maybe you could get along with her. But, as you cannot ever give that, she treats you as the defective one. Truth is, she needs help to see that she is hurt, and that as a hurt person she hurts others in return, especially you as you remind her of her own failures...so in return, she reminds you of all your failures as well. (even though these are not really failures but typical development.)
Saying what you feel to her is important for you. It will do nothing to change her. And, no matter what you did, even if you lived perfectly, you would not be able to make her feel or do anything. You cannot do that; no one can. So, you have to tolerate her at best.
In the meantime, do what you can with her. If it is too hard to face her, work around as much as you can. She is not going to change, but that does not mean that you have to be her victim. So, where you can, express yourself, to her, to your dad, to whoever. It will not change her, but it is good for you to do so, just to show that you are your own person. Steven
You will not make the same mistakes as her. That is not going to happen. But, for whatever reason she is damaged. And, avoiding her seems to be good choice at the moment. Kate is just Ms Electra right now. She will be your best buddy in a few years and Rob will say what happened. I know. I have been through it twice now. Will pick up on the cue thread...Steven
It is called a rusty halo and it is so hard to get rid of that most people simply resign themselves to wearing it. You just cannot make your mother see you as you are.
I am glad that this does not happen with Kate but then again...I am sad to know that it did happen to you. Steven
When you try to bring normal into a dysfunctional family the normal gets attacked and the dysfunction circles the wagons. It is a no win.
The only way to win is not to play, and to avoid the folks who are dysfunctional. Sometimes love is not allowing yourself to be hurt anymore while just being honest with them that you cannot bear to be involved. It is sad, but this is really one of the only options sometimes. And, to avoid Kate's future hurt; and it is coming, you know it...better to set some contact boundaries now.
It is just too painful to face day in and day out and too risky. That does not mean that you love mom any less; it just means that you cannot expose yourself constantly to pain. And, the opposite rule, that is doing the reverse of what mom would do is an excellent guide for how to be with Kate.
I will work on your other question now. Let's close this out as the thread is very long. Steven