I have had some problems with a little bit of incest from sister and two separate rapes in early 20's...I'm afraid of men..and sometimes it affects my relationship with my male T whom I really trust. Now they want me to go to an incest recovery group. I feel like the bigger problem is the rapes. I don't understand and am too embarrassed to ask. Why do I have to go to the incest group?
Person's Gender: Female
Person's Age: 47
Therapy, DBT, ECT, multiple meds, trauma therapy..etc.. Diagnosed MDD severe, BPD (quiet) and anxiety.
I would like to help you with your question.
Can you tell me who is telling you that you have to go to the incest group?
I can understand that this is confusing and also that you want the treatment that is going to be most helpful.
I see that you are typing. I will wait and then reply.
My therapist, Dr. Bird is recommending it..I went to the crisis center and met with a therapist there..and she said the rape groups are full and is also recommending it as a starting point. I feel like my fear of men and the fact that i haven't dated in 8 years since my divorce..and the fact that it sometimes interferes with my T relationship makes it more important..and I'm kind of scared of what i'll hear in that group too...so I may just be scared...honestly.
Thanks for the additional information.
sure..you can ask anything.
Tell me what you are scared of...
I don't remember stuff..mostly images and smells..I remember most the cruelty and twisted nature of the relationship..the hatred she had for me..like mostly fear...sure I remember some stuff...mostly just touching..her having her boyfriends chasing me to scare me..never penetration or anything...her hitting me...mostly that my parents wouldn't protect me and the one time I ran to the neighbors house, getting in trouble for taking it outside the house..like shaming my parents..
So I'm afraid of what I'll hear in the group of real penetration..
like in the rapes..
and I can't talk about that there..
and it will trigger dissociation or panic attacks..
Yes...I understand what you are saying. And yes...the possibility is that you will be re-traumatized by hearing these things. So...you are wanting to protect yourself from this possibility.
sort of....and those things were not supposed to be taken out of the family...
When you talk to Dr. Bird and the therapist at the crisis center, what do they say about this? Do they offer you any kind of support or understanding about these worries?
and the twisted nature of it..the hatred? in her eyes still scares me and I live 2000 miles away from her..
did not talk about it...
just asked if it was really a good "fit" for me...since the fear of "men" (sorry) seems to be my biggest concern..
I think you have legitimate worries here. And that you need much more information about how you will be treated and cared for if you were to attend this group.
You need protection as this type of therapy will require some amount of disclosure and will touch on your vulnerabilities and the past trauma. Without knowing how "emotionally safe" you will be, it would be very difficult to agree to this.
the problem right now is that Joan, says "ethically" she cannot be my therapist if Dr. Bird is also my t....and he is the only one in the world that knows me...I have no support..no friends or family...they are trying to work something out...but I just cannot lose my relationship with Dr. Bird at this point...but I really liked talking to a female T too...there are things..like female things I just don't talk to Dr. Bird about..
But why "incest group"?
Does it comingle in with trauma from rape stuff ?
Yes...that is a good question. The one thing you said was that there was no room in the rape group...so are they wanting you to go to the incest group because that is the only opening they have?
If so...that is not a good reason to attend the group.
I don't think so either...default is not a good reason to re-traumatize me...
From what you wrote, your first incident with trauma was the incest. So, that is likely why they are suggesting that group...so that you start at the beginning.
Exactly. If it's all about openings in programs..then that is a very poor treatment plan.
Do they co-mingle...the thoughts and fears?
If it's because there is some clinical evidence that starting with the incest is the place to begin, then fine. But...is there clinical evidence? What does Dr. Bird say about this?
Yes. The trauma and grief can go together. Yes the thoughts and fears can go together.
They are linked.
I don't understand...he suggested it...I thought he had a good reason..and want to be a good patient and try to do what he suggests..
Have you done much reading on trauma?
a little...Reading Waking theTiger right now..
I understand that you want to be a good patient and be compliant with his direction. But...you are not feeling comfortable...you are worried.
ergo..my writing to you...lol
And that worry and anxiety needs to be addressed.
Tell me again about the therapist at the crisis center, Joan. Does she know Dr. Bird?
If you were to go to this incest program or rape program...would you be working with her? Does Dr. Bird consult there?
No, but I have put them in contact with one another and signed the consent forms...they finally contacted each other last Friday....and Dr. Bird told me yesterday via phone that after talking with her at length that she is going back to her supervisory committee to ask for an exception to perhaps work with me..
No...he is in private practice..
She works at a an abuse/womens crisis center..
Okay. And..how did you feel about working with Joan? Do you feel that you can trust her?
But they have programs and counseling for women..
Honestly, I liked her very much..she is nurturing, older...kind of earth mom and kind of healing and quiet...
I am glad the two talked. That will be helpful for your overall care.
That sounds like a very good person to have on your care team. As you know, trust is critical.
If Dr. Bird was willing to step-aside so you can work with Joan, would you be okay with that?
I saw pdoc yesterday...I told him about her...he got very..hmmmmm like and said he was very interested in my having a female on the team...so to speak.
Or are you afraid that Dr. Bird will be angry or abandon you?
NO. Dr. Bird is the only person I trust right now. The only person that knows me. I have no one else on the planet.
Yes...it would seem that having a female care provider would be good.
He would not abandon me...
I would be too afraid of losing him..
Good. That is wonderful that you have that trust in him.
It took almost 2 years for me to trust him..
And...it seems that you are feeling that you could work with Joan and that you would welcome having a female on your team.
Yes...I can understand that it took a very long time to get to a place of trust.
Do you think it would take you 2 years to trust Joan? Or because she is a female that the issue is not the same.
yes...I need someone female to ask questions to...I have no female friends..I can't ask Bird some things...he is also a priest...
No, I would trust her faster...she is not male (sorry)
It's okay. That does not bother me at all.
So...it would seem that the issue is more about what group to go in and that you are fine with Joan. Is that right? You don't want the incest group but you would be willing to go to the rape group?
I don't mind going to either group if the "team" wants me to..just want to know WHY..and if it will be safe...like I have someone to talk to about it...and whether it is really the right thing right now....and really want to see Joan too if that would be at all possible..which I think I have communicated to Dr. Bird...and to Joan...that was hard..
And if the incest group...what do they see like HOW it is affecting me..that I don't necessarily see???
I understand. Here is what I would recommend:
Ask to meet with Joan. Tell Joan what your concerns are:
1) Why would it be good for me to go to the incest group? What is there about that group and my history that says it would be therapeutically important.
2) What protection will you (or the team) offer me if I feel overwhelmed and re-traumatized by attending that group...or the rape group?
3) If the issues is about available groups, why can't I wait until there is an opening in the rape group.
Should I ask to attend both groups at the same time should a spot come available in a rape group?
I would emphasize how worried you are and tell her that you want to make the very best choice for you.
No...that would be too much emotionally.
Should I ask the same questions of Dr. Bird?
I encourage you to be as clear as possible in your own mind about which group you want...and then go for that choice. Even if that means waiting for the rape group to become available.
First see how Joan answers and if you feel satisifed with what she tells you.
ok...I'll search my heart..
Yes...if you don't feel comfortable with your decision...it will be hard to do well in the group...your fear and worry will get in the way...as will the trust you feel.
I meant lack of trust you feel...
How does this sound?
Do you feel that you have some new information to go forward?
I really appreciate your listening to me so carefully and helping me sort through my thoughts and come up with a concise game plan...that is SO very helpful...
You are great.
Thank you! This is an important decision and I feel honored being able to help you today!
Thank you....I really appreciate you...
You take care. If you would ever want to chat again, please put my name at the beginning of the question and it will come to me.
Have a great day...
Que deurma con los angelitos!
AWESOME...I definitely will.
Psychologist, Marriage and Family Therapist