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TherapistMarryAnn, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5802
Experience:  Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
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For Kate...##############

This answer was rated:

For Kate...##############

Hey, I think I'm answering out of order....


No worries about the quotes:


"Wherever they go, and whatever happens to them on the way, in their enchanted place on top of the forest, a little bear will always be waiting."


Whenever you feel ready....

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Hi Kate,

Your quote is divine, thank you little bear, you make me feel safe :)

Your last post is below to make it easier for me to write.......

Rose, you do have the strength to fight this. He is turning on all the charm, thinking he can manipulate you back into keeping him on. It's what abusers do:

The first statement on the second link gives you an indication that this is another ploy by Dave to get his own way. Where was all this charm, willingness to help you, promises for a better marriage, etc when you were hurting so bad? Where was this Dave when he was stomping on Sam's foot, yelling at Poppy, sleeping all day instead of working? He wasn't there because he didn't need to be. It was you hurting instead of him. That does not concern him. It's only important to fix things when he is hurting.

What counts here is recognizing that Dave will do what it takes only when he benefits from it. As long as he feels safe, he will abuse, hurt, manipulate, take advantage of and cause chaos. But when that safety is threatened, suddenly he cleans up, makes promises and treats you nicely.

That is what you should focus on, not listening to his words. Because he will tell you exactly what you want to hear. He will become the man you have always wanted so you will say yes and keep him in the home. Then you can watch that man disappear and the old Dave return.

What you said makes perfect sense- you have given him many chances and he has never taken you up on them. What makes now any different? It's because he knows you are serious this time.

Plus he is still making excuses:

"I am just a man"- I'm not sure what that means but if he is a man, why doesn't he stop abusing you and the kids and start being responsible for himself?

"It's your fibro"- another excuse, that ignores what he is doing to the family and blaming it all on you.

"It's my childhood"- he has had ample time to address that himself and not take it out on you and the kids.

"Little differences"- what little differences? He is an abuser and will not acknowledge it or do something about it.

All of these are warning signs that he has not changed and doesn't have any insight into his own problems. He needs help and won't get it.

I know you might have expected this Rose, but it doesn't make it any easier. You are doing a great job handing this all. I am awed by your strength.

Thank you for the abuse links (darn the cycle!). Yes I see where I'm at, I wonder how long I'll be sat here. He thinks he's won, that I won't push it further bc he's written me a sorry letter and he knows I'm soft. But I know I simply cannot spend any more time with him. He says he loves me, I dislike him intensely, their if nothing there to rekindle, even if I tried and tried.

I agree, it's a ploy. He said the letter came as a big shock. So he's saying the other 2 times I tried to tell him I wanted him out (last one only 4 weeks ago, very short term memory) I was joking! or he misunderstood! I think the shock is that I have had the nerve to go to a lawyer and start the process for REAL, he thought I wouldn't dare.

I haven't thanked him for the flowers (I feel bad about that, I have put them in a vase in my room, they are pretty, but they are tainted), and I haven't mentioned the letter. He has tried to be as involved as possible with conversation, even if it's been from the other room (making Sam cross), and thanked me for supper, touching my arm as he said so.

I don't know Kate, I am so exhausted, I wish it flowed nicely for a change, but there are too many bends to navigate. I so hope I get there soon. I was out in the field with Lola in the wind and rain earlier, just felt like lying down in the wet grass and staying there, no matter how cold and painful it was, no matter what became of me, I just didn't care.

I shall say goodnight now, a busy day tomorrow, and I'm anxious about talking to K tomorrow evening. So much has happened in the last week, so many emotions.

goodnight little bear

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Still here!

Did you know that 'psyche' means butterfly in Greek? ‘The Psyche is a small and delicate butterfly.' Not the most beautiful.
In Roman mythology, Psyche was a beautiful girl who was visited each night in the dark by Cupid, who told her she must not try to see him. When she did try, while he was asleep, she accidentally dropped oil from her lamp on him, and he awoke and fled. After she had performed many harsh tasks set by Cupid's mother, Venus, Jupiter made her immortal, and she and Cupid were married. Her name Psyche is Greek for both “soul” and “butterfly.”
I shall fold my wings now
Til tomorrow

You're welcome!

You seem perfectly clear about how you feel about Dave and what he has done. Yes, he may think you are soft and wrote his letter with that in mind, but I think he is dealing with a completely different Rose than he is used to and just doesn't know it yet. You are certain of what he has done, what he will do if he stays and how you feel about him. No matter what he has said or done since getting the letter, you have come back at him with a stronger feeling and argument for him leaving.

Flowers, cards, letters and promises have not broken through your reserve. Rose, I truly think you have won and you are well on your way to freedom. I'm sure this is something you would have rather not have had to battle to win. But through all the horrible abuse and problems, you have pushed through and gained what you only dreamt about last year. Way to go!

I understand why you are tired. This has been incredibly stressful. You may not realize how much you have been through because you are so used to the heightened stress level in your life with Dave there and all the other stresses you have. Once this is over and Dave is out, you may find that you just want to rest all the time. That is ok. And even now, resting as much as you can is so important. He is still in the home, but you have gotten over the hard part with letting him know where you stand. You had mentioned a possible getaway with the kids. Maybe you could think about doing that once Dave is gone. Just a short time even so you and the kids have some time to reconnect, talk about how you all feel and enjoy yourselves.

I hope all goes well tomorrow for you. And if you feel up to it, let me know about what happens with K. I'm sorry that things had to go this way for the two of you. I'll be thinking of you.

Good night, Rose (Piglet :) )


PS I just got your second post. I had no idea that Psyche meant that in Greek! Your story was so beautiful. Fold your wings for now, Rose, ready to soar on the air tomorrow :))

TherapistMarryAnn and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Hey Kate,

I was looking for a name that I could use on Second Life when doing group work with K that was linked to butterfly (if she'll have me back). It's amazing what you find out on the internet by just googling :)

Am with Alexis today. Or rather she's at the hairdressers, and I'm sitting in my cliff-top vantage spot in the brilliant warm sunshine, looking out to the Atlantic Ocean. We have had an enormous amount of rain in the last 4 days, and the sea is a muddy brown for probably 1 km, then there is a demarcation line of white surf, beyond which the sea is blue-green. How bizarre. We have had the wettest April for 100 years, and all in the last few days. Few!

I'm drinking my compulsory cuppa coffee, having consumed the vital piece of carrot cake (not as good as the lemon slice of last visit) before I put fingers to keyboard. I've just bought 'philadelphia' cheese (can you buy that too?) for carrot cake icing, Poppy's birthday tomorrow, will make a passion cake for her I hope.

Just got a parking ticket... booo... I dropped Alexis off, parked in a loading bay, she tells me I can park anywhere with a disabled badge. Not so. But had a conversation with the enforcement officer who said I could appeal, and made a note of the chat. so fingers crossed I can get away with that one. My fault, I shouldn't have bought my cake and coffee!

I couldn't sleep last night, my mind just wouldn't switch off. I nearly put my netbook on to talk to you, but I thought it would be more beneficial just to keep my eyes shut and rest. Tuesdays always worry me bc I have no time out, but today is a little different sitting here in the sun.

I still haven't passed comment on D's card and flowers. I bet he thinks he's won and can relax. I have decided to get the divorce papers in the pipeline, I AM NOT TURNING BACK. It just may take longer and more effort to get him to go, but I feel more comfortable about proceeding now I have spoken with the children about it, and they still love me :) I told Sam about the card and flowers last evening, he said that's not very nice of him!!!! I think his conversation with D yesterday morning was a mistake, he may have put the idea that if he pulled his weight a little I might change my mind. Hey ho. It's bought D some time though I guess. I might look for accommodation that is available, but I still think he'd be better off living with a friend to begin with. And all the while he is still in my home I will expect some sort of 'rent' but I will just call it a contribution.

And I think I'll get his accounts tied up, it will probably be in my best interests as there may be a back payment of tax credits owing to us, and D can get his tax rebate. I have just proved to myself though that he isn't able, can't be bothered, hasn't changed etc... He will be getting another letter from his building material supplier bc he hasn't paid April's bill, but I passed it all over to him weeks ago.

I hope I can control my tears tonight talking to K. I had no idea I would feel the way I felt when I told her we shouldn't work together anymore. When I told her we should part I was thinking of how badly she has been affected by everything, that she was feeling inadequate bc she felt she hadn't been doing the right thing for me (preparing me for the SW visit, alerting them at an earlier time), that she questioned her therapy skills, that she was rethinking her career; and then when the SW gave me her verdict and asked me how I felt, and my reply was a pathetic 'relieved' when really I didn't know what to think, she seemed so upset that we had gone through all that, and I had got what I wanted bc I'd asked the SW to please leave the investigation, I couldn't cope with what was going on. And she was upset that the kids weren't speaking out, glossing over everything, making life sound rosey. Why were they abandoning me, sticking up for D, surely Sam would tell it as it is. And I felt she didn't know where to take me from there- I was saying maybe I couldn't ask D to leave, maybe I'd just sit it out, the kids were cross with me, everything was too confusing, and I thought K was upset with me, and I couldn't work with her if I wasn't doing the right thing, I would know that she was despairing of me bc I had chosen to stay when I could just push a bit harder, and he'd be gone. I was astonished that she CARED so much, she was SO involved, and took it badly when things went stale.

I was feeling uncomfortable with the vibes I was getting over the airwaves, but I know that it's really hard to express how one really feels through written word. i told her she was cross, angry with me, I felt it, and that I didn't understand why she was blaming herself for so much, that she was so upset with the children's reactions to the enquiry, and I felt protective towards them. She apologised sincerely, XXXXX XXXXX her own issues and counter transference, and that she should not have let those thoughts and feelings get in the way of our relationship, and how she saw my situation. She had talked about seriously thinking about whether I could continue working with her, and so I felt she was doubting that she could do anymore for me bc I was being reticent, and had feelings of doubt about leaving. I thought about it for a day or two, and decided it would be best to stop my sessions with her bc I didn't know if I could do what she hoped I would do. I know I should do what I want to do, but I couldn't help thinking that I will get nowhere if I stay with D, but I don't know if I can do it, and then all the work we've done will be to no end.

So then I wrote to say we needed to stop individual sessions, I felt she wasn't doing too well personally, and I was feeling guilty and responsible for how she felt. But I was scared to be cut off from her, I hoped we could still do group work, I could still hear her voice, she could soothe my mind, but I understood when she said not, she said she wasn't 'punishing' me, but it was that she wouldn't be able to follow me up if I had an upset. I couldn't stop my thoughts rolling over and over, all the hours that we had talked together, letters we had written, how she had helped me to talk again, given me double time at no extra fee bc I couldn't start talking until half way through a session; that we'd moved into my room together, chosen butterflies together, so much, endless thoughts, and I couldn't believe I had told her I couldn't work with her anymore. I haven't been so upset for years, heart broken for want of a better word, but it spurred me to pull my act together, and say those words to D, and give him that letter. So, it has worked in my favour, though maybe I would have done the deed anyway, who knows.

So K was concerned that I was so upset, said she'd do anything to help me, what did I need? she thought I had let HER go, had she got it wrong, she wasn't abandoning me, she is there for me; when she replied to my letter that was so clear that i was 'quitting', she said she understood, that I've been strong to make the decision, that she was proud of me, and was saying goodbye, let me know if I need her again. And then I wrote saying how badly I felt,, and I had confused her, but she understood that I was totally mixed up after an horrendous week, that there was transference, being mad at her for being cross, angry with me, my kids, that I'm not able to be angry at anyone else, not D bc I'm scared, not the kids bc they are my kids, and I need to be careful to keep them on my side.

I don't know how I will manage my session tonight, I will be in such a muddle, and I feel that bc I quit I didn't accept her apology, which I did totally, but still thought things weren't going quite right, and I was so sure for a day. I just had her upset in my head, and I thought how much more complicated she was making it, adding another dimension that didn't need to be there, and I'd asked her not to worry, and she HAD worried. But I do really appreciate her care and involvement, it was just a little too much for me last week, and she felt the distance made her concerns greater.

Anyway, there is more, but I've run out of something, not sure what. Time to go home now. (not overlooking ocean anymore, day has moved on many hours)

Talk later


Rose, it sounds like you all have gotten a lot of rain! Man, we already have droughts here in certain spots and summer has not even started.


Yum, carrot cake! I'd eat it all the time if I could. Yes, we do have Philadelphia cream cheese here in the U.S. in abundance! I use it, though not often because it's so good to eat I wouldn't stop :)


It's Poppy's birthday tomorrow? How old will she be?


I believe that you are not turning back! Wow, Rose, you have grown so much in the past few weeks that I'm overwhelmed. Whatever caused you to feel the need to move forward on this has really taken you far and is not leaving any time soon.


You made many good points about your reasoning behind needing to move on from your relationship with K- but the most important point was that her feelings from her past were interfering with you getting where you needed to go. You cannot continue treatment when the therapist cannot stay objective. It just won't work and it can do more harm than good. That does not mean that you won't mourn the loss and feel hurt about it. You made a very tough choice and I think you need to realize that you did something extraordinary when you recognized what was going on with K. She cannot do these things in your life for you, you have to be strengthened by therapy enough that you do them yourself. That is the whole point. K knew that too.


Even now, with saying good bye it is hard because of the involvement. But it is very understandable. She was like a good friend to you and helped you a lot. Being aware of the boundaries is going to be hard. But you are sure now of what is good for you, and both you and K know that therapy was not working. K understands how you feel. Maybe you could spend some time clarifying what you feel so you both can make a proper goodbye with each other. After a short time, K is ethically allowed to contact you so you may also want to see if that is possible, so this will not be a permanent goodbye.

I'm sorry that you have to go through this loss.


Let me know how your session goes if you have time.



TherapistMarryAnn and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

thank you. I believe my upset with K this last week, and all she said, and I said, uncomfortable as it was, just made me feel 'sod it' nothing will happen unless I am brave and PUSH. It has been such a confusing time, but on Saturday I was so shrouded in heartache I just decided I have got to move. I didn't know I would do it until I was at my aunt's, I just came home, went straight upstairs. He said what's the matter (I looked a mess, had been crying), then I told him without hesitation, and followed it up with the letter. That was the Easy bit.

Maybe all the strength that K had given me came together at the point when I realised I didn't have her to give me anymore, it was like a volcano erupting, but without any warning, or maybe the warning was a simmering that had been going on for a long long time, and a sudden burst of emotion let it go.

Now the kids know, I see no reason why I shouldn't push on. D thinks otherwise, and has come home from work today, and is cutting the grass. I know he thinks it will be enough. It won't be. He will get the divorce papers, and go nuts, but I don't care, it is all I want now, and I will get it. I hope not to be writing to you in a week or two with a different story, I hope I can sustain my will.

I know I won't sustain my will where K is concerned, not yet. We will talk about whether to end our sessions today, or to wean off. I wonder if we could let Adele take over for the short term, and I can pick up with her again after. Maybe I need to ask Adele how long she can stay with me for, bc it's on the NHS- she said 6 sessions initially, then review. It's been more than that, and we haven't reviewed. I was shocked at how cut up I felt about it all, but I know I would feel the same if you and I weren't able to talk anymore.

I'd best get on, and I hope to be back after talking to K, at least to sign off. :)




It sounds like the issues with K, her pushing you and transferring her feelings, made you see that there was little left in you to put up a fight to stay with Dave. I think that you did have it in you to get Dave out, always have, but you needed a trigger to get you to erupt like a volcano, as you put it so well! And the issues with K were like a match to the fire (to use another example) to help you take action.


K must mean a lot to you for her feelings to affect you that much. That, plus the pressure of the marriage, your work and all the other things in your life came together last weekend. As I've said, you do not realize how much stress you are under. You have lived with the abuse for so long that there was not much more you could take. And you had tried everything in the world to keep the marriage going. You have given more excuses than anyone deserves to Dave for him to fix himself and deal with his issues. Not once did he take you up on it.


I agree with you, Dave will keep trying, thinking he is going to get back with you if he just does a few things that please you. This only shows that he knows what needs done in the marriage, but he won't sustain it because it always reverts back to him and his needs.


I think you will be fine. You will not change your mind. And even if you falter a bit, you have people to talk to and ways to bolster yourself up and get back on track. And you have the kids' support, which you won't go back on. It is too important to get them out now.


Let me know what happens with K and your sessions with Adele. I hope you are able to continue with Adele as long as you need to.



TherapistMarryAnn and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Thanks Kate,

not long through with K, a very emotional session. We talked for a long long time, about everything, the weekend, last week, our emails, all our time together, when we met, how I was back then, how much I have grown. It was difficult, we were both upset, she was very sorry. We left the decision about our future to the last 10 minutes. It was my decision, that I want to take it a week at a time, that I need to feel secure right now, and so I feel comforted, and she was very glad to have been given another chance to work with me.

So it's Poppy's birthday tomorrow, yes, she'll be 14! I'm looking forward to making her a passion cake in the morning.I'm not a big cake maker, but Alexis is, so I have learnt a few skills along the way. I have a lovely card with a little dog and a butterfly perched on his nose! Just from me. She has asked for money for clothes, we might go to an out of town shopping mall at the weekend, see what we can find her. Last year she was really wanting to be a photographer, so that was an easy pressie, a nice camera, a bit more than a point and shoot, but not too complicated. I wonder if D will remember.

Goodnight dear Kate,


It sounds like you and K really worked through a lot of your history and current relationship. That is great! And you figured out what you need right now and let K know. That is what is important. I agree, support is vital now as you work through the separation.


Happy Birthday to Poppy! Fourteen, wow. It's amazing how fast they grow up. You have a delightful birthday planned for her perfect for a teenage girl!


Good night, Rose. Sleep well.



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