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Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience:  Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
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A psychologist was walking along a Hawaiian

Customer Question

Hi Kate.................................................

(rest to follow.....)
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Mental Health
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.
That's not fair! Now I'm on the edge of my seat!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Sorry, it got left behind OK, in full...


A psychologist was walking along a Hawaiian beach when he kicked a bottle poking up through the sand. Opening it, he was astonished to see a cloud of smoke and a genie smiling at him.
"For your kindness," the genie said, "I will grant you one wish!" The psychologist paused, laughed, and replied, "I have always wanted a road from Hawaii to California."

The genie grimaced, thought for a few minutes and said, "Listen, I'm sorry, but I can't do that! Think of all the pilings needed to hold up the highway and how long they'd have to be to reach the bottom of the ocean. Think of all the pavement. That's too much to ask."

"OK," the psychologist said, not wanting to be unreasonable. "I'm a psychologist. Make me understand my patients. What makes them laugh and cry, why are they temperamental, why are they so difficult to get along with, what do they really want? Basically, teach me to understand what makes them tick!"

The genie paused, and then sighed, "Did you want two lanes or four?"
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

That was hysterical! Where do you find these jokes? You have a great sense of humor.

 

 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Well, a little online research, but most jokes are TERRIBLE! I'm glad you like :)

I had a good chat with Cathy, haven't seen her for weeks. I brought her up to date. She doesn't understand why Dave is being so unreasonable, not wanting everyone to be happy. She really wants to talk to him, sort him out, but she thinks he will feel someone else is against him. She thinks they must be pretty bored with him at the pub, so full of his own stories, she says he might say how are you?, but his interest in anyone else is very short lived, before he is straight back to himself and what he knows, has done etc. It was very good for me to talk to Cathy, she knows him well, but even so was surprised to hear what I had to tell her. She says it's all going the right way, scary as it is to have the SS come, and she read the lawyer's letter, and said he needs it asap. I'm not ready to give it to him yet (i need it to come in the post anyway), but it would be good to have it for soon after the SS have been, if not at the same time, sort it all out at the same time.

He's been out since 2pm, he went to get some fuel. It's 7.30. Sam said where is he? I can only guess. Just in as I write.

Back soon

Rose

Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

I'm glad your visit with Cathy went so well. It must feel so nice to have the support of a good friend like her. I can understand her desire to sort Dave out. If only it was that easy, eh?!

 

She is right about Dave's interest in himself. How was that for you to hear?

 

You keep moving ahead with this regardless of your fear. That is so admirable, Rose. You do something to reach your goal almost every day. I'm not sure if you have noticed how you have pushed ahead and faced this so well. You reach out for support, talk about your situation and keep moving no matter what. You really deserve a lot of credit for how far you have come.

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Kate,

it was great to hear that from Cathy, from someone who has spent many hours in his company, and she can give me some insight from another perspective, always pointing to the same conclusion. I do feel better after talking with her. She actually said I'm looking much better, which is really good, Dr H said the same thing last week. To be honest, I am surprising myself that I haven't given in, but how can I when I have such great support - I feel I am being 'crowd surfed' (I hope you know what that is, I'll define if not!!) towards the open door, everyone helping me with outstretched arms, smiling, clapping as I move past, little effort on my part, but bc everyone wants me to be there, and it feels very good to be held up high. Thank you for the vote of confidence! :)

So, 'very serious matters'. My thoughts are that
1. he'll not see anything that he has 'done' as serious
2. he'll be of the opinion that everything that has happened, has bc of something I did, said, didn't do, or that the kids were out of order and he was reacting (rather than the other way round)
3. I'm blowing everything out of proportion, telling untruths to get what I want, and I'm out of order talking to anyone about what is private
4. He doesn't remember half of what happens when he's drunk, therefore it didn't happen
5. He will be very angry at the letter, he will definitely be more abusive (but I'd like to be wrong), so I'll choose my moment carefully
6. I do wonder how I will react, I don't know if I should be present when he reads it, or leave him with it, and wait for him to come to me once he has had time to take the impact of it. I wonder how I will react to his reaction, which will be explosive I'm sure, I doubt he will feel defeated, he will have a great time slagging off the SS, and the law, and is unlikely to go quietly. I anticipate he will go nuts for a while, then will take himself to the pub, but not in my car bc I will hide the keys (otherwise he would). And when he comes back he'll be even angrier, and we'll have a very scary time.

Your last paragraph makes it very clear (you are clever!), and at last I understand. It is something that has been left unsaid, and I admit, the more deeply we are in it, the more difficult it is to say, out of order. And I know that is what has been wearing me down year after year, bc I haven't acknowledged it, and I've pushed it aside. But now, yes, it's coming out, and I HAVE to confront him about it, when the SS come, when he gets the letter, when I say he has to go, I can do this no more, and that is scary.

I'm going to approve the letter, last bit and all, if you think it's right to be there?

Rose
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Cathy wanted to know how my parents felt about things. I told them I have told them some, but not all. She said why not all? Bc I want to protect them? Well, I think so, to protect them, OR to protect D. I think it has mostly been to protect D up til now, and I ask them every time I see them, and they want to know a little bit more, not to say anything to D. They say no, they've hardly seen him, and they would just be their usual selves.

She said she imagined my childhood was much like hers, cared for, no abuse from any angle, and that it must have been so alien for D to behave the way he does. I didn't want to tell her how I really grew up, I don't want her to see my parents in that light, though she knows my mother is not an easy person to be around. Her own mother is bi-polar, but she is very kind and caring, Cathy's children love her dearly, and her father is a gentleman. I couldn't tell her how my mother behaved, I don't think I'd tell anyone so close to home.

But we were talking about how fathers were with their children, she was imagining her father behaving towards her in the way I was describing D's behaviour towards the children, and she said she just couldn't imagine it. I sat behind a father with his 10 yo daughter in church yesterday, and saw how he put his arm around her when they stood for hymns and prayers, and how gentle he was with her. I thought about this father telling this daughter she was a f***ing little bitch, and I knew it would never happen.

She talked about D being psychotic. What does she mean do you think? K told me that an alcoholic mentally stays at the age that they started drinking. Well I know he started using drugs from and early age (well, teens anyway) does that count? I'm sure there was plenty of drinking too.

I feel such a fool to be with this man, how did I ever agree to him? I know he turned up on my doorstep, worldly possessions strapped to his back, and Now I know he saw me as his ticket to ride, but I can hardly believe I didn't stop to think. I know I beat myself up a lot after we got married, I knew I'd made a big mistake then, but I didn't have the strength to go with what I felt, I guess I thought it would work out OK.

I see K tomorrow. I'll try to make an agenda, set some boundaries. We'll talk about my dream at last, it got forgotten the last 2 times. She said she has some ideas about it, but wants to work it through. I wonder if last weeks upsets and counter-transference have any bearing on what I dreamt, or the other way round since the dream came first. I'm not working tomorrow (apart from AA), so I won't feel rushed at the end of the day, and frazzled for my session.

I think I'll get to bed now, try to catch up with some sleep, I've been waking early with my usual pains which won't abate til I'm up and about.

Goodnight Kate,

Rosex
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

I do know "crowd surfing" and I had to laugh- it's a good metaphor for what is happening for you. You do have your own crowd, cheerleaders if you will, helping you along the way to your goal of peace and freedom. It's a great thing to see.

 

You concerns with the "very serious matters" are valid given Dave's past behavior. I have some thoughts about what you said:

 

1. Dave may not see anything he has done as serious. But that does not make it any less serious just because he says so. Dave's view is skewed. It has to be so he can continue abusing the family. For to see it as it is, he would have to deal with it. Hiding it or denying it is key to keeping the abuse going.

 

2. It is the nature of the abuser to blame the victim. Not taking responsibility is part of denying what he is doing. Either you make him do it or the kids make him do it. He has convinced himself that he not in control of his own behavior. That way, he doesn't have to feel guilty.

 

3. Shame and hiding is part of abuse. Don't tell anyone, hide the pain, pretend all is ok. It doesn't help anyone to do that but Dave. By saying you blow it out of proportion, Dave is saying it is ok to abuse you and the kids. It's no big deal because he is not the one getting hurt.

 

4. Being drunk does not excuse behavior. Responsibility starts when the abuser takes his first drink.

 

5. If you feel he will become more abusive when he reads the letter, it is very important to have someone there with you, another adult or even the police. You are taking away his meal ticket and his chance to have his victims available 24/7. He may do whatever it takes to keep you from taking all of that away. Put your own safety (and the kids) first. Prepare for the worse case scenario. It won't hurt and will keep you from being abused or even worse.

 

6. If you anticipate any reaction whatsoever from him, the set up a plan to deal with the worst he can do. You may even want to consider asking the attorney if it is ok to have Dave removed right then. Pack up some stuff of his and have it ready. Ask your neighbor, your father and maybe the police to be there. Then tell Dave to leave. You can also have a locksmith waiting to change the locks right after Dave is gone. It may be the best way to handle it. There is no reason to keep him around, is there? It will only give him a chance to hurt you for what you are doing and he might do that once you are behind closed doors.

 

Once you have a plan in place, then you may want to approve the letter.

 

My concern with your "very serious matter" list is that you will accept Dave's accusations that this situation is your fault. You did nothing wrong. You did not make Dave abuse you or the kids and you are not blowing this out of proportion. If anything, you do not make a big enough deal of it. You minimize it, accept blame and hide it. This needs blown out of proportion so Dave can no longer hide behind the shame and secrecy. If he cannot hide, then his secret is out and now everyone knows what he is doing. He will experience the shame for a change.

 

It made me feel sad, your comments about the little girl hearing her father say such a cruel thing to her. How did you feel about it?

 

I think Cathy was commenting in general about Dave being psychotic. People sometimes use that term when they feel someone is very crazy. The diagnosis of psychosis does not fit Dave (although I cannot be sure of that without seeing him face to face but I'm almost certain). From what you have told me, Dave most likely has narcissism and is an alcoholic and drug abuser. He may also have another personality disorder, at least one that needs ruled out. His emotional development most likely stopped at some point during his late childhood, early teens. If he was abused, it might have stopped somewhere during that time. Either way, he has not matured enough to take on adult responsibilities.

 

It brought tears to my eyes reading your comment "I feel such a fool to be with this man, how did I ever agree to him?" You are no fool. You only accepted him because he fit what you were taught you were worth. You were used to being abused and he was willing to abuse. Since then, you have come so far. I keep saying that but it is amazing to see. I read your words and it's like talking to a completely different person. It is a steep climb to get out of an abusive relationship and a lot of people never make it. But you have almost reached the top. I have no doubt that you will be standing on the peak any day now!

 

Good night, Rose. I hope you sleep very well, without pain.

 

Katex

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

thank you so much. I am ready now to have the letter sent to me, so I can have it on hand when the right time comes. I'm glad we talked about the 'very serious matter', I feel better about it now, and I will try not to accept the almost certain blame that will come my way.

The little girl I was talking about is Poppy, that is how her father speaks to her, and I was imagining the man in church talking to his daughter in such a way, and I knew that it would never happen. I would feel terrible for any little girl to be spoken to by anyone in such a way, most of all her father. It makes me sad too, that she doesn't seem to care what he says to her, she just gives it to him back.

I owe you so much for helping me turn myself around. If I didn't work a little every day, I would be a long way off my vision. Although I feel that things have happened more quickly than I feel comfortable with, I think I have caught up with myself a bit, and I hope I can cope with what is to come next. It feels good to have the support of so many, cheerleaders 'n all :) I love that vision, I am smiling broadly to see you with your pompoms!!!

I shall email my attorney now.

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

You're welcome, Rose. It is my privilege to be here for you.

 

I figured you were talking about Poppy in regards XXXXX XXXXX man and his daughter in church. Poppy has coped with a lot from Dave and getting away from him will be good for her. She does care what he says to her but she may feel that fighting back is the only recourse she has to retain some of her dignity. It is sad that he could not be a better father to her.

 

I appreciate the kudos, but you did all the work. Things are happening fast and it may take time for your heart to catch up to your mind, but you will have a long time to heal once Dave is gone.

 

Pompoms yes, cheerleader outfit- no way! That would not be a good sight ;)

 

I hope it goes well with your attorney.

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The email is done and sent, I don't expect a reply til later in the week when he's back in the office. Another step forward :)

Every time the phone rings, or there's a knock at the door, I think it will be the SS. I really wish I knew what to expect, how it will happen, I feel unsettled being alone with the knowledge of their potential arrival, and want it to happen when there are no other kids here, and all is peaceful. Maybe they'll send something in the post. I'll just have to take what comes, but I hope they don't call when I'm out and the kids are in, they won't know what to do or say.

I am pleased to be resting; no, pains not better. I've been thinking about the physio referral to the pain management team, or more specifically, clinical psychologist. Someone else to look in my head. I wonder what he can do to help.....

I took the dogs with me to the ponies, we've had to put both ponies in the stable now, Juniper is lame too, this is getting to be beyond a joke. The spring grass causes damage to the lamina of their feet, too much sugar. Juniper has never suffered with it before now, but it seems obvious that he is afflicted too. I was hoping to bring them home this week, but I'll have to keep them in for a week at least to let the inflammation subside.

As I got out of the car along the farm track with the dogs, the terrier cross spotted a chicken in the field, then both dogs set off in chase. There have never been chickens there before, what fun for them!!!!When I caught them up, they had had a few feathers from it, and had chased it into the hen house. I had to go right into the enclosure to get the dogs out, then went on to the ponies field. No sooner had I arrived, the terrier disappeared again, so I had to go back to the chicken run again. This time he had caused the chicken some damage to it's wing, but it still seemed to be OK. As I was leaving I came across the owner just arriving home, and I told him all about his chicken. That has really scuppered the dogs freedom at the field now, I won't trust the terrier over there again.

The post came this morning, a warning letter to D that his builders merchants credit would closed if he didn't pay his account. He brought the letter straight to me and asked me to pay it. I said well I can now I've put some of my money into your business account. I'm going to get this tax year's accounts up together and to the accountant, then the ball will be totally in his court. I'm saying that, I hope I can do that too. I can't believe that this job he's doing now is a cash job, the money goes straight in his pocket, nothing for the bills, though I suppose I should ask! (but then I feel bad, bc he's got nothing to spend on him....AHGGGG)

I want to go to sleep!! But I have 3 hours til skype, and 2 kids to get to different parts of the countryside, and supper to get. Maybe a cuppa tea will help, water is getting pretty boring, but tea tastes so unpleasant.

Hope your day is good. We've had a hailstorm, followed by bright sunshine. I hope tomorrow will be fine, I'm hoping for a day out with the kids (they've promised me)

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Hi Rose,

 

I would imagine that the SS will show up when you would be there. Otherwise, it would be a wasted visit. At least that is my thinking. That would mean that they would have to give a phone call first to be sure you are around which would at least give you a heads up.

 

I can understand that the wait would be difficult. It is the unknown- what they will say, what they will want and maybe even request from you. It is hard to relax thinking about all of that! But you are well prepared. And I cannot see them causing any issue when they find out that you are well on your way to having Dave removed from the home.

 

I think the physio clinical psychologist will probably focus on your pain as it relates to your stress. If I was a psychologist looking at your situation from the physio point of view, that would be my angle. But the fact that you already have Adele- does that interfere with the type of treatment he/she can offer you?

 

It sounds like the dogs gave you a heap of trouble today! Misbehaving puppies! I am sorry that Juniper is doing so poorly. Hopefully, he will be on the mend soon. Are you still considering selling the horses?

 

I find it amazing that Dave feels he can bring the letter about his business, a mess he got himself into, straight to you. Wow. There doesn't seem to be any insight that he created a mess and is making you responsible for it. Like a child to a parent.

 

What is it about asking Dave to pay his own bills makes you feel guilty? What would happen if he did not have money to spend at the pub?

 

I hope you are getting some down time before you have to run to get the kids. How do you feel about your Skype with K tonight? You said you intended to set some boundaries and talk to her about some issues.

 

Talk to you soon,
Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

No downtime, rush rush,kids in different directions! Just time for food. Sam is staying over in town, and Poppy has just rung to say can she stay over with her friend too. I've just come in from the cottage next door where I had to go for my skype bc D came home from the pub at 8pm just as I got in (I followed him up from the pub!) I was expecting to go and pick Poppy up, but she phoned just as I got in. I felt rather nervous it just being D and me here, I was kinda looking forward to having Poppy and her friend here with me. He asked me where I'd been for 3 hours, I said next door, talking to Karen. He said do they know all our business then? (meaning neighbours, who, in fact, do know most, but I haven't updated them for the last 2 weeks- I think I need to soon) I said no, not that next door, the empty cottage. He asked how K was, I said fine, he asked how I was, I said fine. Now is not a good time to start, I spoke to Poppy and have come straight to bed.

We concentrated on my letter, and SS visit tonight, I couldn't talk much, glad to have K talk to me. I didn't set boundaries, I was all over the place, didn't feel in control, but talked about the important stuff. I don't know why I couldn't talk tonight, found it difficult to focus, I told K I find it hard to think beyond the end of the week, expecting the SS and letter to happen and overwhelm me all at once.

Yes, I think the ponies will have to go, find homes for them, but it won't be easy. I was all set to get on with it a few weeks ago, but now it is on the back burner. I'll wait til they are both fit, then bring them home and it will be much easier from home.

The Clinical psychologist must work differently to Adele. I am intrigued to see what he has to offer me.

I don't know why I would feel guilty about withholding money so he can't go to the pub (isn't that being abusive?), and so that the bills get paid first. He would have something bad to say to me, that I can buy things for me and the kids, but he has no money to spend. I'm looking forward to getting his books sorted, and working out his personal spending vs his net income.

Sleep is seconds away......

Goodnight Kate

Rosex
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

Dave never quite lets up, does he? My goodness, you are not even allowed to go next door without being accused of something. What Dave is doing is limiting your choices and questioning your ability to keep his secret so he can continue his abuse without anyone else knowing. Yet, I can recall him telling you that he had told many people about your "issues" without asking you first or considering that you may want your personal business kept in the family. So you are not allowed to share but he is? Who made that rule and how is it fair?

 

It sounds like your session with K went well. I hope you feel you got some things sorted and feel more like things are in control for you. I imagine that the SS visit has you preoccupied and that may be why you felt all over the place tonight. It's very normal to experience a lack of focus with so much on your mind.

 

You are not being abusive withholding the money to pay bills. If XXXXX XXXXXdled the money, or had his own, and you tried to keep it for yourself, like he does with your money, that is abusive. But you earn the income and you pay the bills. Therefore it is your decision, and the most responsible choice, to pay the bills first. You are trying to be sure the family is cared for. And since Dave creates the bills in the first place, it is only taking the money from his alcohol to paying his company bills. Only in Dave's world does alcohol come before the family.

 

There seems to be a sense of guilt whenever you stand up for what is right in your relationship and in your life. Dave has spent a lot of years convincing you that he is right in all he does and you are wrong and guilty. When you try to do the right thing, he says you are abusive when in actuality, he is abusive and you are not. Having a low self esteem allows him to convince you of this false accusation when in fact the opposite is true. You are selfless and as far from abusive as someone can get. Accepting what Dave says as right is part of the co dependency. Learning that he is wrong and only does this to hurt you will help you to see what he is saying is very far from the truth.

 

What do you feel is preventing you from seeing what Dave says about you being abusive is false? Do you feel you are abusive?

 

I hope you are already in dream land! Have a good night, Rose! Talk with you tomorrow,

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Morning Kate,

I'm supposed to feel good today, but I feel very lonely. My kids aren't here, and D is fiddling about, I just want him to go. I haven't opened my cards, and D has no idea it's my birthday, and I don't want to tell him. Mark has remembered, sent me a text, and I have been wished a good day on facebook from someone I barely know. My parents want me to go for lunch, but I don't want to go. I will visit AA in a minute, she may remember! Then I will pick the kids up and go somewhere for lunch. Maybe I'll look for something nice for myself. AA asked me what I wanted for my birthday a few days ago, but then I had no idea. Since seeing Cathy the other day, I have thought about a digital radio for the kitchen, she has just got one for herself, so that will be a focus, and if I get one with a CD player that will be even better.

Jack the old dog has just fallen down the stairs again. He can barely stand, his time is close.

Best go, AA will nag me that I'm late!!

Rose

Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Happy Birthday, Rose!!Laughing

 

Even though you probably don't want him to remember, I'm appalled that Dave hasn't even made the effort. I am sorry. You deserve so much better. It's no wonder you feel lonely on your birthday. He is supposed to be there for you, making your birthday special and guiding the kids on how to celebrate. It's sad that other people are the ones to do what Dave should be doing for you, including Mark.

 

It's nice you will spend time with the kids and that your parents want to see you, even if that is not what you want. I think it's an excellent idea that you spoil yourself today. For all you do for everyone else, this is your special day and you should have something you really want.

 

Poor Jack. It sounds like he might be ready to go. Seeing your dog in pain is hard.

 

I hope you have a wonderful day, Rose! I'll be thinking of you, praying your birthday turns out well and you have lots of fun!

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

thanks so much for your birthday wishes, I've had a nice couple of hours out with the kids,; we chose a digital radio with cd and ipod dock (for the kids benefit, I don't have an ipod!), but now we're home i can't get any radio signal. I'll try again later. We went to a farm restaurant and shop for lunch, had a good time, lovely salmon salad. The kids are so good together these days, it's as if the age gap has closed, and now they're friends. My parents were in the veg patch when I got home, so I've seen them for a short while, and don't feel obliged to go for further visits. They were happy to see me, but I am needing alone time. D has just arrived home. Maybe the kids will tell him, and he'll come to me and be cross bc I didn't tell him this morning. I guess it's a sign of how much he thinks of himself, and how little he thinks of others. I need a rest for a while, back later

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

It sounds like you had a wonderful time, Rose! I'm glad. I was a bit worried this morning that you would not get to have any fun on your birthday.

 

I can imagine that you feel hurt that Dave is how he is about things like your birthday. Being mad at you that he did not remember is a good example of someone who is only thinking of himself. It is hard to imagine the justification you would have to have to feel angry at someone for not keeping you up to date on their own birthday. Wow.

 

I hope you enjoy the rest of your day! Are you having any cake or ice cream today?

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i nearly bought a cake at the farm shop, but the kids were full from lunch. i should have made me a cake, but wasn't really feeling cakey til i saw all the yummy cakes for sale. i kept remembering the lemon cake slice i had overlooking the ocean. that was the most divine cake i have tasted in a long while.

i am falling quickly into sadness, all strength gone. the tears are flowing, and i want to stay in my room. i know i should get up but i don't want to see dave. the phone keeps ringing, i wish the SS would hurry up.

rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

I am sorry, Rose. This is a sad time for you. You are caught between knowing full well what Dave is about and not yet having him out of the home so you can relax and enjoy your life. You are having to live with your abuser and that makes things very tense and on edge. I imagine that your next birthday will be quite different!

 

Is there a way for you to go out again? Maybe get yourself a cake or another type of treat. Or just go somewhere fun. I know being home is more appealing, but a run in with Dave will make things a lot worse for you.

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
poppy told d it's my birthday. he's just been out to the shop and bought me some flowers. i wish he hadn't. his card says 'being a woman, julie was essential to the office.... she did all the things the men couldn't do, like joined-up writing, thinking and the rest of the work', a '1920s' picture in b&w, a man sitting on a desk, with a woman sitting at it, looking up at him.........!!!
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.
Oh dear. That is an odd card. No happy birthday included, eh? Well, I imagine that you are glad he did not get angry and make a scene but the tension from the situation sounds bad.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I am alone, I feel wretched. I've played with Lola, and am eating cake, but I'm caving in. I wish I had my therapy tonight, it's all going wrong in my head and I don't really know why. Why today? Is it bc D got me some flowers? i'd maybe go out, but D has taken Sam to a gig, hours ago. I don't care where he is. Poppy is out with friends in the village.

I don't know what to do with myself, my head...
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

It may be that you feel bad because of Dave giving you flowers. It is easy to see the good side of things and make all of the bad go away in your mind when he shows you a small kindness. It gives you hope that all the rest of it is an illusion and he has changed.

 

Try to think about all he has done to hurt you. For example, why is the SS coming to your house? Because Dave has been abusing you and the kids. What does Dave do when he abuses? Recall the screaming and the "You're wrong"s that he repeats over and over in your face. It will help you to put the flowers in perspective.

 

All abusers can be nice sometimes. It's part of the abuse to try to placate you to some extent so you will hang on to hope. But Dave is not better just because he gave you flowers.

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
00.30. Just in with Sam from his gig. I tried to sleep before I had to go (D=ETOH), but couldn't, tears ++. Tomorrow is a different day.....

Goodnight Kate

Rosex

Kate, Would you 'chat' with me if I need to? I really wanted to tonight, but know you don't like to
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

I'm sorry you had such a bad day. I imagine that you wanted more for your birthday than what happened with Dave.

 

It's not that I don't like to chat, it's that the system often has issues. Sometimes it works but often the responses are slow and cumbersome, which makes chat take a longer time than back and forth. It's hard to complete a thought or get in all the important information if the system causes trouble. But we can certainly give it a shot and see what happens.

 

Good night, Rose. I hope you sleep well and feel better,

 

Katex

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

I've not known what to do with myself today and I am feeling depressed. But I have moved myself through the day by having a cleaning session. I want to be tidy for the CPS, the dust was thick, now that is behind me. I've moved some drums into D's room, and a z-bed he put up in the office for Jay to sleep on, and then just left it there. I couldn't move in the office (a tiny mezzanine room above the kitchen), have waited to see if he'll take it down and put the pew back in it's place, but now he has it dumped in his room (and the pew still in the lounge). He said tonight he can hardly move in there. I have started his accounts, not asked him for any further input- I will go as far as I can then give them to him to complete. I hope I can be strong to do that.

The dogs have barked, and the phone has rung many times, but there is no word from CPS, this is driving me crazy, waiting, knowing, worrying, thinking, D will be mad mad mad.

I stopped at a postbox in the pub carpark on my way back from seeing AA this morning. Just as I was about to get into my car, Mark came down the hill in his car, and crossed the road to the carpark to speak to me. We just said hi, he said that he'd dropped back the cement mixer he'd borrowed from D, that he was going shopping for food for the family, then he was going to Cornwall for 10 days. He asked me if I could spare a day to meet him next week, I said unlikely, but I'd think about it. That was it, 3 or 4 minutes. Tonight D said what have I done today? I said house chores. He asked me to tell him what the conversation with Mark was about.......... so I told him almost everything we’d said. It was a chance meeting, but someone was spying on me!

Thank you for saying you will chat if I want, I'll try not to need to. I have been talking to K today, emailing back and forth, she says after our last session, (letter, that I want a divorce, that I will soon have a voice)... it's no wonder I feel so beaten up, .......she said 'These may seem like little things, but for you - who would rather hurt YOURSELF than tell D how you really feel...this is HUGE' Sigh. And, I, am, TERRIFIED of everything that is going to happen, I won't be able to stop what happens, I will feel more out of control, and one word from him will wither me, and the kids will be cross, and HOW will I possibly cope.

I'm sorry I'm so late. I hope your day is good.

The chicken died, and Sue was cross that Rubin chased it.

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Oh Rose, I'm sorry you are feeling so down. This is a difficult step to take. You are facing a lot of fears and confronting the control that Dave has had over you for so long. You are also facing the past, where you were taught that speaking up for yourself is wrong. Bad things usually happened when you tried. And you learned that you don't have any rights. This may be part of your fear now that you won't be able to carry this through, but you will. You have prepared so long for this moment. You have the strength, the resilience and the determination.

 

You are not out of control. You are actually very much in control, more than you have been in a long time. Before you decided you wanted out, Dave had all the control. You were convinced there was nothing you could do. Dave was hurting you and hurting the kids. Now you have taken so many steps and gotten to the point that you are in control. You have an attorney on your side, you have me, K and Adele on your side and you have taken all the steps necessary to have Dave removed. You are finally protecting yourself, which is what you have deserved all along. You have the right to live a peaceful and happy life. Dave tries to take that right away from you. You are now taking it back. That may be what is triggering your fear. This is a new feeling for you and may feel tenuous. But that is ok. You will feel stronger as you go along.

 

There are always choices, Rose. You have made so many good choices for yourself and the kids. Believe in yourself. I believe in you, K does too and so does Adele. If we all can believe in you, you can do it too. Just take it one step at a time. SS may come knocking (or calling, more like it) at any time, but no matter when that is, you are ready. The waiting is tough but once they get there, you will feel better. And the ball will be rolling for you to get your freedom.

 

Have you tried imagining what your life will be like when you don't have to live it around Dave and his behavior? When the kids want to be home and don't have to find ways to be out and away from their abusive father? When you can come home in peace and have a nice dinner with the kids, without shouting, accusations, bullying and drumming? No alcohol, no drugs and no having your money stolen from you. If you concentrate on your freedom it can help you see the end result of all your efforts and it will make this all easier to face.

 

If you feel chatting will help, let's set up a time tomorrow. I am usually on early afternoon my time. I will have to limit it because I'm usually busy but at least we'll get a chance to have a conversation. Let me know.

 

I hope you sleep well, Rose. I'm thinking of you.

Kate

 

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Kate,

thank you so much, it's always so good to hear from you, and you always make me feel better, that I can cope, have strength. I seem to be feeling a little better now that it is Friday, and I know they won't come this week. I did a bit of reading last night on the NSPCC website, and found a fact sheet called 'The child protection system in the UK' which told me the various reports that the SS make, and who is contacted for information. They have a limited no of days (max 15 working days depending on what report they are undertaking), and I expect they will gather info from their schools before contacting us.

Sam has had to go into College today for a revision day. I stopped at the bank on my way home and took the household direct debits off D's accounts and put them onto mine. So now he is soley responsible for the cashflow with his accounts, and I won't be transferring any more of my money to bail him out. I feel good that I have done that, though there is more of a burden on me. Kate, I can't wait til he's gone.

He came home at lunchtime, I said are you done for the day? He said not really started, just priced up some things for a job. He walked through the kitchen and went to bed. That makes me think he's been drinking. I know he's out tonight. I'm going to get on with his accounts in a minute. He won't be pleased when I give them to him half finished.

Cathy has invited Poppy and me over for supper tonight for my birthday. Sam is at work. I hope I'll feel like it when the time comes. I'm supposed to be meeting with the owners of the holiday let next door (where I go to skype sometimes) today, was meant to be yesterday, but I don't want to go. We need to talk about things bc I'm going to do the change-overs on Saturdays, with Poppy. Maybe tomorrow.

Talk later. I was just thinking of the chat for times when I am feeling overwhelmed, I don't want to wish them on myself, but maybe we can see how I go. Back and forth is fine :) Thanks

Rose


Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

It's good you decided to do some exploring on the internet about the SS and what they do. It will give you some more to go on to know what to expect. If they are the same as here in the states, they will need a very good reason to remove the kids and they will do their best not to. The goal with our children's protective services is to keep the kids in the home if at all possible even offering parenting classes if needed. And considering that Sam and Poppy are almost on their own now, it really gives them even less reason to remove them. It may be that they have to visit just because they must investigate every report.

 

Good for you, Rose! I had to smile when I read about you changing your bank accounts around so Dave is in control of his own. That is a huge step for you. His money issues are no longer your problem. It must feel so nice. And this is a good sign that you are more than ready to get out of this abusive relationship and on your own. What do you feel prompted you to go through with this? I'm asking because there seems to be a change for you ever since you decided to see the attorney. You have pushed your way through and have been very focused on taking steps to get out of the marriage. You talk about your fears, which is great, but you seem to overcome them more easily, as if they do not bother you as much as they used to.

 

When you give Dave the accounts half finished, you mentioned that he won't be pleased. What to you fear he will do?

 

I hope you are able to go tonight to Cathy's. It would be nice to have someone take care of you for a while and be there for support. Maybe you can keep it short and get home early.

 

No problem with the chat. Anytime you want to give it a shot, let me know.

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

I'm soooo tired, just got back from Cathy's, yes, Poppy and I made it, and I didn't clock watch too much. It was good timing actually bc we called at Sam's pub to see if he was ready to leave, and he and 2 others that I usually end up giving a lift to were trying to get a lift with someone else! (D at the pub, therefore no-one at home... no surprises there!) D was home this afternoon, after sleeping for 3 hours, I told Poppy what time we were going out. He said where are we going? I said Poppy and I are going to Cathy's. He said what about me? You're not invited. Well that's not very nice is it! I said it's for my birthday. (I had an email card from my sister Helen in Ghana that Dad had printed out, and she'd written hope Poppy and Sam spoil you on your birthday. D had put an ^ after the kids names, and written 'and Dave!'!!!!

Anyway, we had roast chicken and salad, and she made me a birthday cake in the shape of a butterfly :) And I had a lovely dangly pair of aquamarine earrings.

I decided to change the direct debits now for several reasons 1. it's the end of the tax year, 2.I want to be able to tell him that everything that comes and goes into his accounts are spent ONLY on him, 3. I don't want to have to feed his accounts again, 4. it's another step away from being connected with him. I know I'm taking one step at a time, and it feels more controlled and it's not all happening at once. I think seeing the attorney made me realise that it is possible to do. K made me say 'I want a divorce from D' on Tuesday. I said I REALLY REALLY WANT A DIVORCE FROM D, although I struggled to say the words to begin with. This is why she says I am starting to find my voice, say what I want, and I am getting braver. So, a little at a time, and I felt good to have changed the DDs, now I need to remove my name from the accounts, and get some new cheque books etc, but I'm not sure if I can do that before I have told D I want out.

I spent several hours sorting through D's receipts. He knows what I'm doing, but has made no attempt to get together the information required by the accountant, that I asked for on Monday. When I tell him he can finish them himself, he will tell me I'm am being pathetic and ridiculous. He will likely rant for a good while, but I'd like to wait and see what happens. I hope it will be this weekend, I want to finish them tomorrow. I will tell him he has to get them in asap bc he is due a tax rebate, and if he doesn't, he will be due another tax bill in July. But I will be firm, that I'm not going to finish them, I hope at least.

Well I must sleep,

Goodnight dear Kate

Rosex

PS. I guess the third animal to die within a week was the chicken, so Jack might last a bit longer :)
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Oh, and while I remember, this morning at breakfast I was reading my emails, and there was one that I wanted to forward to dad, and I wrote a couple of lines to go with it. D said who are you writing to. I said never you mind. He said tell me I want to know. I said no, i don't have to tell you. Why, is it a secret then? No, not a secret, I just don't want to tell you! I got up with my netbook, and no further comment made. Hope you are proud of me :)
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

It's wonderful that you went to dinner, Rose! Cathy sounds like a sweet and thoughtful friend, making you such a delicious sounding dinner and a butterfly cake (she knows you well, doesn't she?!).

 

Could you imagine what it would have been like if Dave was invited to dinner at Cathy's? And Dave's insistence on being included on your email card from your sister- it sounds like he really feels he needs to be included in everything. He doesn't seem focused at all on the fact that the card was for you for your birthday and the dinner was to celebrate you. It's all about why he wasn't included. The focus is always on him in every situation. There is no consideration for you. It sounds like Dave's development was arrested early on in his childhood. The need to be included in everything is something a child does before the age of 6. After that the child learns that not being included in everything does not impact their self worth and they learn autonomy.

 

You really considered all angles when you changed Dave's accounts! You also mentioned that you are thinking of taking your name off as well. You could really do that at any time, but probably in this case, it's the sooner the better. The more steps you can take now to protect yourself the less you will have to deal with after Dave finds out about the separation and starts any trouble. You could also check with your attorney too and see what he advises.

 

In order to hold firm and not finish Dave's accounting, what do you feel you would need? I'd like to help you work on a way that helps you stand against Dave's abuse when he finds out he has to do his own accounting. The same feeling you had when you told Dave that it wasn't his business when he tried to see what you were sending your Dad is a perfect example (Great going by the way. You are amazing!). If we can harness that feeling, you can concentrate on it and use it more often.

 

I hope XXXXX XXXXXgs in there. Poor puppy. I hate seeing them get old and feeble.

 

Good night Rose. Sleep well!

 

Katex

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Morning Kate,

I've been watching a pair of robins come and go from a nest in the ivy just outside our front door, and there is another robin sitting on 5 eggs in the ponies stable. I've only just realised the nest is there, on 2 occasions a small bird has flown past me, and so I looked today when I disturbed her. Easy to see into the nest, at shoulder height in the doorframe. It's amazing where they think is a good place to brood!!

I visited AA and took Lola with me bc she was coming to the ponies with me for a run (I daren't take rubin again yet, he'll have another chicken! Lola came into her cottage, but was petrified of her cat!! I picked the cat up, and Lola went over to hide behind AA's chair, then she put her paws on her shoulder, and within a couple of seconds she had climbed over the back of the chair and was on top of AA's chest! I scooped her of rapidly, AA was rather shocked, glasses askew, but she was very good about it. Lola hid on the stairs after that, watched me around the corner of the doorframe! She is a scream.

I came home and visited my parents, something that I have put off all week, but I needed to report on AA at some stage, and on the D situation. I've given them some info, mostly financial and practical, and will leave it there for the moment.

Home again, and Poppy had missed the bus into town, she said D (just up) would take her, he needed to go in for some reason. He asked if he could take the car. Just as they were going I asked him to give me some petrol money. A minute or two later he said, couldn't you have just asked me to put some petrol in the car? I said if you prefer to put petrol in please feel free, I just thought it would be easier for you to give me some money. He said, I just want to be normal. I said are you not normal then? He said he was, but I wasn't. I said I'd just like him to contribute, that's all.

So, is this an opening for me I wonder? What is normality? Can I call his bluff? I am going to box up all his bills, cheque books, letters from the accountant, and give it to him with his books, so far done (as far as I can go), with a list of all the things he needs to do and find to complete them, and leave it all to him.

I can't stand living with him anymore. Just can't be in the same room as him. I came home from my parents, and he was in the kitchen. I wouldn't go up, so I cleaned the bathroom. I know that's not normal. I can't be normal. I'm feeling wound up really tight, I'm irritable (though I was completely level and polite to him, and everyone, that's just how I feel inside). I feel like I want to get everything done at double the speed, I have no patience, I just want to get through things and out the other side to find peace.

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

It sounds like you are having all kinds of adventures today, Rose! Don't you just love seeing the birds and their nests? I have one that nests in our Rhododendron outside of a window in our home and I get to see them hatch every year. It's such a treat.

 

Your poor aunt! And that funny Lola! That must have been interesting to try to deal with.

 

Yes, I do believe you have an opening there! What you did was great. Perfect. And very normal. Calling his bluff is good. He should be doing these things and you already know that because you are normal. He is not because he believes that he should not be responsible for anything and that you will take care of it all, much like he is a child and you the parent. You are simply acting normal in an abnormal situation. Bringing normal behavior in where only dysfunction existed before will cause an uproar and Dave will probably fall back on his usual defenses- You are crazy and he is not. He uses himself to measure normal behavior. If it doesn't revolve around him and he is not happy, then it is wrong.

 

It's ok for you to do whatever it takes to avoid him. That is also normal. You are seeing him for what he is. I am guessing there is also some latent anger in there as well directed towards him for all the abuse you suffered with him. That may be why you feel wound up and irritable. It all makes a lot of sense, Rose. This is a great sign. You are moving towards health and Dave is staying where he is. And the differences between you are what are making you feel as you do. Be proud of yourself Rose. You have achieved something great.

 

I will be in and out today just so you know. But I will check in when I can to see if you posted. Talk to you soon,


Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thank you Kate,

but I wish I could feel positive about the way I feel, it's so uncomfortable and is doing my head in. I can't open my mouth to say any more that is useful, and he has just whiled away the day while I have been busy from one end to the other, mostly with his business stuff. He came back from town with Poppy, and he tells me he's put some fuel in the car (yeah, result), then he sat and read the paper, helped himself to supper I had prepared last night (spag bol), while I worked on his accounts. The kids asked me for a lift somewhere, They didn't want to ask D for some reason, he just sat there, knowing I was busy, but not offering to take instead. When I got back he was watching You Tube, while I got straight back on. Sam asked him to help him clean and tidy the kitchen, and he said I've already emptied the dishwasher! I had to ask him just as it was getting dark to visit the ponies, was gone 5 mins, then said he's off to the pub (did I mind?!?)

Well, no, I didn't mind, in fact I couldn't wait for him to go, such a relief (of maybe a little tension, not a lot), but I can't live like this much longer, I AM going crazy. I'm just waiting, waiting......

Mark texted me yesterday, I'd told him that D had questioned me about our chance meeting outside the pub. I told him that I wouldn't be meeting him while he was away, and that I didn't want him to think about me any more. He replied that he's sorry for being so naive to stop and talk to me like that, that he can't keep hurting me, he loves me too much...... I want him to go away...

We talked yesterday about the feeling I had when I told D to mind his own business about the email to dad, and to try to use that feeling to stand firm against D when I give him his accounts. What do I feel I will need? I think I can risk getting angry when he says he can't possibly do it himself, I want to tell him I gave him ample time, that he knew when and what I wanted. I have been working on them for 3 days, he's watched me sorting, checking, ordering, calculating, but not once has he asked how I'm doing, offered to look for receipts, or get his invoices together (the one's he hasn't even written yet).I don't know HOW he's going to do them so long after the jobs, but hey, I don't care. I just know that when I wind them up tomorrow I do not want to do any more to them.

I was crying just now, as I was writing, no particular reason, but I do know that I have totally had enough. Why isn't he being mean, I want him to be a bastard, I want him to make me feel better, but I don't understand my feelings, and now I'm crying again, maybe with frustration, and I hurt all over, I'm a wreck. Kate, hug me please, I need you, I'm feeling very broken.

Rose

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
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Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

Here is a huge hug! Your image of Pooh Bear is exactly how I picture it too. All nice and comforting, caring and helpful. I cannot express enough how sorry I am that you have to go through this. But I also want to say that you are doing this all so well, Rose. You may feel upset, tearful and frustrated, but all of those feelings are appropriate for what you are doing. You are getting out of a terrible, heart wrenching and depressing marriage. You have been hurting for so long and in need of some hope. The tension and anxiety of waiting is weighing on you. But you are not alone. I am here, K is there for you and Adele will be back soon. You have Cathy and your family, to some extent. Everyone around you cares very much and supports your efforts. Your very own cheerleaders!

 

Mark is an extra burden, more boundary crossing, that you do not need right now. It is so good that you told him to leave you alone for now. If he cares at all, he will respect that boundary and not bother you again.

 

There are two incidents tonight where Dave is hurting you and abusing you that you pointed out. He does not have to be screaming and demanding to be abusive. Letting you do all the work while he plays and sleeps (taking care of himself first above all else) is abusive. He is using you to do all his work while he sleeps and basically lives like a King. And he sits around making you do all of his accounts for his jobs. Not lifting a finger to do his own work. That is abusive as well. It is a boundary crossing, making his responsibilities your job. You would not sit around watching TV and sleeping while he ran around caring for the home and kids. You also would not go out to see your friends and drink while he ran all night getting the kids to friends and work. And you would not stay home sleeping while he went to work everyday. And you certainly would not take his money and spend it on yourself while he struggled to pay your bills. If you would not do these things, why should he? Because he is abusive.

 

Also, think of all the times he did abuse you and the kids. Do you feel he has changed since then? Is he sorry? Has he brought it up and apologized? If he has not, then the potential for him to do it again is 100%. That is the nature of an abuser.

 

I hope you are getting some restful sleep and feel better in the morning. I'll be praying for you.

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Oh Kate, you say such good, cheerleadery things, make me smile, feel better. Thank you for your Pooh Bear hug, so lovely :)

I worked another couple of hours on his accounts, (while he lay-in) making a list of all the receipts he needed to find, and invoices he needs to write. I wrote him exactly what he needed to do to finish them off and be ready for the accountant, and that they needed to be completed soon so that he isn't liable for a further tax payment in July, and that he is due a tax rebate. I wrote that his accounts (bank and tax) are now HIS to be responsible for, that he must pay his bills, deal with his overdraft, credit his accounts (ie no more money from ME). I told him that I have put money in both his accounts this week to stop them going over their limit and incurring huge fees, and that I have taken off the household DDs, so that everything that comes out of his accounts are now HIS expenses only. I calculated his overdraft fees and interest for the year, and told him how much I have credited his account with over the year.

This is all in writing, it has to be that way, I can't repeat myself. He wanted to see what I was writing before I had finished, I wasn't ready to hand it all over. He couldn't see without his glasses, so didn't read it, just knew there was a letter for him. He said thank you for doing all his book-keeping, he wouldn't know where to start. I said that's fine, but you can finish them off, I've had enough. I told him briefly what needed to be done, and he went off immediately to look for receipts that were missing, found some, gave them to me. I said I'm not doing anymore, you can finish it off, put them in his box.

He said I don't know what to do, you have always done the books. I told him I had written everything down exactly that he had to do, it's nothing much, all the difficult bit has been done. He came to have a look at what I'd written. Said I don't understand it, what do I have to do? Said I can't do this. I said read what I've written, D, I have spelt it out for you. I read it to him.... what do you mean, I can't do that! (invoices) I said you know how to do invoices, look at the ones I have done as an example, copy them, do them by hand, they don't need to be word processed. I can't, you'll have to do it with me. I said no, I'm not doing any more, I have worked hours and hours on these accounts while you have slept, net-surfed, or gone to the pub. I said I have asked you on at least 2 occasions to get things prepared for me bc I'd be doing them on my week off, and he's known full well what I've been doing.

I told him his accounts are his responsibility, he draws on them, uses his card on them, knows how much he's spending, what the balances are, every time he withdraws cash. He said there hasn't been much work, that's why they aren't in good shape. He said how was I going to pay the household bills; I said from my earnings. He asked me (again) how much there is in savings, I said he had some, I too, then some is joint. He said we're not as poor as you're making out then? I wasn't making anything out, I just try to be thrifty while we can- we can't live off our savings, they'll be gone in a flash. He went outside, had planned to mow the grass before all this came up, but came back in after 20 mins, sat and looked at the file again, said I can't do this, and went down to his room, where he's been lying on his bed for the last 2 hours.

I haven't had the last of it I know. There were raised voices, and I used some choice language, but I felt I was in control for a short while. I have certainly made an impact on him, I assume he's been thinking about it lying on his bed. But I expect he will do nothing about the list of things he needs to do, nor will he get the invoices written to get money in. He has 2 bills to pay before the end of the month, but I have been clear that the ball is in his court.

So, that is most of my day, and I am totally drained, I just want to go to sleep! I'm glad to be seeing my chiropractor tomorrow, it's been more than 2 weeks, but at least I know I'm not ready to go to 3 weeks like she had hoped (she had to bring me forward from next Friday for some reason). The tension in my neck and shoulders is causing pain and numbness again in my hand.

I told you about some robins feeding their young yesterday..... This morning I have found 5 perfect baby robins, lying around by the front door, one on my car bonnet, completely undamaged, but obviously dead. I can't imagine what will have taken them from their nest and scattered them around, the furthest 20 feet from the ivy. We have cats next door, but they would have eaten them. I need to do a little internet research. So sad. I seem to be telling you most days about an animal that has died, what is going on?

I can't tell you how much your posts mean to me Kate, I absorb your every word, and thank you for the strength that you give me. I am feeling a little better today. I don't know what possessed me to do it, but I took more cymbalta this morning than I am prescribed, just half as much again (90mg instead of 60). I confess to feeling really nauseous to the point of almost dashing to the bathroom, I'm not sure what I wanted to happen, but this morning I was feeling really head-zappy and pretty rough, I figured it might make me feel better. The head-zapping has gone for sure, but I don't think I should do it again.

Hope your Sunday is quiet, and you had a good Church service.

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

You're welcome, Rose. I really like Pooh Bear. He represents all things cuddly and warm! And when you posted a picture of him, it made me think of how much comfort we all need, especially when going through something so hard and trying. And you are going through a very tough time with your marriage.

 

Wow, Rose! You laid it on the line with Dave about his accounts. This is another huge step in your quest for freedom from the abuse. You are gaining back your self worth and independence with each action you take. Doing all the accounts to the point you did sounds like it gave you peace of mind by allowing you to say "I did what I could" and now it's Dave's responsibility. I imagine that he might feel pretty confused by your behavior. maybe trying to figure out a way to have you take back responsibility. His attempt to say to you that your not as financially down as you make it out to be may be his way of seeing if he can spend more money. He also said that he can't do his accounts and went to bed so he did not have to face it. Avoiding it may be his way of trying to dump it on you. What do you think? I know you won't bite, but Dave only has so many ways to cope and he may be trying each one to see if he can get a reaction.

 

Let me know how it goes with your chiropractor.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your birds. It does sound like something is going on. It's either another animal or a person. I really hope it is not a person.

 

Taking extra medication can actually poison your system so the extra medicine would make you feel worse. If you feel you need something more to calm you, do you think your doctor would call in something like Ativan on an as needed basis?

 

I hope you are getting some time to rest today. How are the kids?

 

Enjoy your evening! I'll talk with you soon,
Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

thank you, XXXXX XXXXX we like Pooh, he is lovely, Piglet too. Such a wonderful creation.

Well, D spent 4 hours in bed, (I thought that was very childish, not cutting the grass bc he'd been asked to take responsibility for something- he probably is confused, it is unusual behaviour from me, agreed) only got up bc the phone rang for him. He didn't mention the accounts again until just now when he came to my door and asked me what if I'm home tomorrow, I said some, he said Tues, I said no. He said he'll have to take tomorrow off from work then. I said why? So you can help me with the accounts. I said you can't take a day off work to do them, you need to EARN some money, the accounts can be done in your evenings. No they can't he said, I need lots of help with them. I said you CAN do them, you just need to think a little bit. He said I have thought about it all afternoon. I said you need to think about it with the file in front of you, not while lying in bed for 4 hours, how will that help? he's gone to the ponies now. How am I going to stand firm against him? His avoidance might be another tactic bc he knows that I'm very particular about getting things done, and he may hope that I will be exasperated with him and do them anyway. But I really don't feel bothered whether he does them or not, just so long as I don't have to do anymore.

I'm sure D is wondering what my plan is, bc I've made big changes to the accounts, and I'm obviously distancing myself in many ways. He actually remembered his diabetic appointment last week after missing the previous 4!

I feel a relief that I have gone as far as I can, like you say, and now I feel it is something else that is behind me, and I can focus on moving on, and what this week will likely bring (SS, and letter). I have felt less anxious about the SS this weekend, just as K said I would be, bc I haven't expected a call or a knock, and the kids go back to school tomorrow.

I know I shouldn't take more meds. I've taken less before, but never more, it was a moment of desperation and a need to feel better, and I didn't think for more than a couple of seconds. I think it is time to fill my Diazepam script, but it means seeing, and asking, unless I can do it by email like last time when I was in such a state, but then I'm only allowed enough for a couple of days. Everyone is really good to me at the surgery, they know how difficult I find it to go in person. In fact I must get a supply ready for what is to come.

The kids are OK, they have been so involved with friends and company they have hardly noticed what's going on around them. D and I exchanged in Poppy's presence this morning, but she didn't say a single word, when she might have said something in the past. She has put off, and put off her homework, and I have got bored of saying please get on with your HW, but she has made a half-hearted attempt this afternoon in between facebook and texts, and I feel I should be more ontop of her needs, though she hasn't asked me for any help so far. I expect that will come at the 11th hour! Sam has had a very busy holiday, and also done little studying. He's been in good spirits really, and there has been very little interaction between him and D.

D has just come to my door again, asked me what I'm doing tomorrow again, and asked what time I'll be home. I said I expected to be back by lunchtime. I know he's going to catch me, he'll be at home when I get home, and I won't be able to escape. I'm feeling trapped and very angry. I want some time to myself, I don't want to be spending time with him. He's going to make me pay, I'm no longer in control, he had that look about him.

I think I'll get an early night, gather some strength for the week ahead.

Goodnight Pooh Bear ;)

Pigletx
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

I expected this reaction from Dave. You are pulling away and he knows it. From all the years he has dumped his responsibility on you, he is now flailing around, trying to find a way to dump on you again. He is pushing, hard, because this is his way. The only way he knows. His mind goes one way- Rose will do it for me so I don't have to be responsible.

 

He cannot force you to do it. The only thing he can do is make it hard on you by pushing. The best way to handle it is to be unavailable. It may be hard for a while because his behavior is going to increase and get worse before you have him out of the home. You are taking away his ability to abuse. He won't be happy about that and he will try to find a way to reconnect with you in an abusive way. He'll push all the buttons, make you feel guilty and try to force you to do his bidding. It will be stressful for a while. Now might be a good time to find a new hideout so you can be away from him. Anywhere but home. And when you have to be home (for the kids and such), have a few things you want to say to him and stick to them. Here are a few:

 

"It's not my account, it's yours"

 

"It's not my responsibility"

 

"I have enough to do"

 

"It's your business"

 

"No, I will not!"

 

"Leave me alone"

 

If he argues, walk away. If he touches you, tell him you will call the police. Stay in your mind and use your intellect and try to shut off your feelings. You only need to be this way until you can get yourself away from him. Then you can let your feelings out.

 

Hang in there Rose. This is the last of it. It may be a difficult part, but once you are through this you are home free. I am with you. Anytime you need to talk, I'm here. And rely on K and your friends too. You will need them now.

 

I'm glad to hear that the kids are doing ok. Sounds like they are coping well.

 

Get some good rest tonight, Piglet. I'll be thinking of you!

 

Pooh Bearx (aka Kate)

 

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hey Kate, early bird!

Just a quick update while he's out of the way! He wasn't up before I left for my chiropractor appt, but I left him instructions on how to proceed with what he had to do, if he insisted on taking the day off from earning money, but I told him that HE would be doing them, that I was not going to do any more. I told him to sort through the receipts keeping only dates 2011-2012, sort fuel from materials, check them off against the list I'd made, and stick the small receipts onto A4 paper so they could go in the file. Then I said he should hand write the invoices that should have been sent to clients for payment (had payments, without invoices), and make a list of all those who have had work completed, but hadn't been invoiced. There are 3, maybe 4, only small jobs. I wrote everything down so there could be NO doubt as to what he had to do, a 10 year-old could have done better than he has.

I came home from my aunts at mid-day, and he was in a bad mood. He said he couldn't do it. I have to help him. I said you aren't stupid, I couldn't have possibly put it in simpler terms than I have. He said if you don't help me we will end up without the tax rebate, and have to pay another tax bill in July. I said that's not going to happen for a while yet, you needn't have taken the day off of work. Yes I did, I have to get this done. Help me, I can't do it. I said I'd had enough, hours and hours last week, you knew exactly what I was doing, and I'd asked 2, maybe 3 times for paperwork to be sorted and up to date. I've done my bit, now you can finish it.

I left after 5 mins to visit my parents, get away, but it is my dad's 88th birthday today, so a good excuse to leave him to it. I was gone 45 mins, and when I came back he is lying on his bed, a few receipts have been looked at, but that may be it for the day. I'm going to have some lunch quickly then take the dogs out if it doesn't start raining again (pitter patter April showers!)

Back Soon (couldn't write it backwards like Pooh!!)

Rose


Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Oh Rose, good for you!Laughing You have stood up to him and made him face his responsibilities! No more dumping on you. Isn't it nice? Now you can get your things done without having to fit his stuff in too.

 

Knowing what he is doing with his accounts is part of owning a business. If he feels he cannot handle that, he can either hire an accountant or not have a business. That is what a responsible person does.

 

How do you feel about what you did today?

 

Enjoy your showers today! None for us until maybe later.

 

Talk to you later,

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

I think I need some coffee today. I hit the answer button again. Just ignore this one but if the system won't let you, I will make my next answer an info only.

 

Sorry about that!

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hey Kate,

hope you've had your coffee(s), I've had plenty to set me up for the day! Well, he's still in bed, that's 3 hours of doing nothing, but I'm not bothered. I've got stuff done without him being there to make me feel ill.

How do I feel? Well, I have succeeded in saying no, he might think it has backfired on me, bc now he's doing NOTHING, at all, but I have been strong against him. I definitely feel it's a step forwards, and I'm not considering going back on it, not until the last minute when I will most likely check it's in order (maybe without him knowing.)

But......, is this what you meant about shut off my feelings? You mean don't let the guilt get me, the feelings that now I'm putting him in a bad place, that he isn't coping with how I'm behaving, that I think I'm being mean? What if what I want, and am doing, sends him into a depression? What if he drinks and drinks bc of me?

I guess it's not as if he doesn't know, I've spelt it out, that I want him to move out, let me be, but he's just trying to pretend that I've said nothing, that it will all be better, that I won't push it through. I will, but I'm so horrible, it will make him feel so bad, that no-one wants him, not Mark, not me, the kids aren't defending him (but they might when it comes to crunch time)

Sam seemed rather down this morning, I took him into college on my way to my appointment, he was quiet and din't really want to talk. I asked him if he was OK, he didn't say he was, but wouldn't tell me why he was so quiet. I'll try to talk this evening, but I almost said maybe he needs to see his counselor again. He didn't want to take his ADHD meds, I really wish I knew why.

My chiropractic went well, she sees an improvement every time she sees me, and I do feel in less pain intensity wise, though it's still very widespread. She worked my neck, shoulders and thoracic spine today, and though now very sore I think I can move more freely. And she worked my lumbar spine and pelvis, which I'm now regretting... no pain no gain they say (or is that exercise?!) I must exercise more, I didn't take the dogs in the end, felt rather weary, now resting. Maybe later.

Talk soon.... round II later I expect!

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

You mentioned that you have no intention of helping Dave out until the last minute. I wanted to ask, is that to protect you financially or to help Dave out? In other words, is it necessary that you intervene with his accounts for the family's sake?

 

It's good you mentioned your feelings about the situation. That is the co dependency that you are struggling with. The feeling that you are putting him in a bad place, hurting him and making him feel a certain way. Taking responsibility for his drinking and depression. It is the feeling that anything you do to defend yourself hurts Dave. You are not allowed to have rights, not be dragged into doing his work, and not be free of his abuse. The boundaries are crossed and need to stay that way so you don't feel guilty for having rights.

 

To have a healthy self esteem, you do not need to validate yourself by pleasing Dave. His happiness does not mean you are worthy. It is hard to change that because it was ingrained in you that pleasing others and self sacrifice is how you gain worth and a sense of self. But you have been doing that your entire marriage and it has yet to make you feel good about yourself.

 

By shutting down your feelings when you talk to Dave, it can help you focus on the logic of what you are doing, which you have said makes perfect sense to you. You know what you need to do. It is when your feelings come up and get in the way that you hesitant or give in to Dave again. You can see the pattern now. You took a stand against Dave and now your feelings are telling you that you need to take responsibility for how he feels. Your imagination has him in a gutter unable to get out because you took a stand against him and asked to be treated well. No one will want him and it is your job in life to be sure Dave feels wanted, needed, doesn't drink and is taken care of. This may help you to see it another way:

 

"Again, it can hardly be overemphasized that the reason overcoming this so-called "disease to please" can be so problematic is that people-pleasers experienced their placating behavior as the best--or only--way to gain their caretakers' love and caring. As with almost everything else relating to the human psyche, when a behavioral pattern that is clearly maladaptive as an adult was once adaptive as a child, there will be a strong, deep-seated resistance to changing it. And this opposition will hold regardless of how much, consciously, the individual truly desires to change it. For the anxious child within can only view such efforts as gravely threatening the need for personal security (which is so intimately linked to avoiding parental disapproval)."

 

Basically, you are stuck in a pattern that forces you to please Dave in order to feel secure. To change it, you have to convince yourself that no matter what goes on with Dave, you are a human being worthy of love, boundaries, and freedom from abuse. You are not responsible for his happiness. He is. He is not a child that needs your care. He is a grown man who not only has the capacity to care for himself, but you and the family as well. And your happiness and self esteem do not need to be sacrificed for his.

 

I hope Sam is feeling better soon. Maybe he will talk with you later, when he has had time to think of your offer to listen.

 

Talk to you later,

Kate

 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Kate,

well, we have something called working family tax credits, which is a sliding payment based on income, from the Dept of Social Security. The only reason we as a family would benefit from my intervention is so that the accountant can give us accurate figures to inform the Tax Credit Agency, and get a back payment of money due, if any, but that is the only reason. Otherwise, his tax liability is calculated on the net income, but that is going to be WAY WAY below the tax threshold, and he will be due a tax rebate of payments made on account, which will go to him (only hundreds), though I paid his tax. But I've written that off. I'm not going to fret over the accounts, I've done them in super-good time, never before have I been so forward, but I have my reasons, do I not?! What I have asked D to do with the receipts is only for completeness sake, but it makes it so much easier for the accountant if they are all ordered as I have requested. The important bits are the invoices, which he is procrastinating over, bc he is so cr*p at doing anything like that. But he simply isn't trying to make an effort, he's going and hiding, and hoping it all goes away. If he thinks it's going to soften me, and make me think I can't have him leave, he's WRONG (hey, I like that word!), it's making me surer than ever, he is pathetic, and I can only wonder what he thinks of himself.

I was thinking earlier, that I don't run D down, I don't give him a hard time for not being able to do things, I don't belittle him, tell him his daughter could do what I've asked him to do (no computer skills required), I tell him he's NOT stupid, he's perfectly capable of doing these things. He got up from his bed after 4.5 hours in it, I say did you have a good sleep? He says, Yes thank you!

Hmmm, co-dependency is a pain. Yes, I feel all those things, but I am trying to push them away. You speak such true words, it's scary (that pleasing others and self sacrifice is how you gain worth and a sense of self.), and yes, anything I want for myself will hurt D. I will worry, I have no doubt, I will everyday, not that I love him, or have any good feelings towards him, none, but I will worry that I have damaged him for wanting to be happy. Why is it my right to be happy, I am going against him being his own happy self, I am unhappy, and I'm saying he is the cause, but in doing so, I am turning tables on him, making him the unhappy one bc of what I am doing, trying to make ME happy. Does that make sense?

OK, I've read the quotation in your post again. That is where I am, I agree. My goodness, I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am if I didn't have you and K telling me the healthy way to think, I don't think I would ever break free, ever find my way out. But I can see the door, and I think I might get there long before I feel I'll be ready to accept it. I truly think that talking to you everyday has moved me on immensely; like you say, I'll have to sort my feelings out once I've got to the other side, and I can crouch down behind the wall, catching my breath, and trying to take stock of what has just happened, the escape I have just made, and I will try to calm myself, and keep going forward, never looking back.

Supper!

Rose

Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

I was laughing out loud at your new word- WRONG. I love it. Use it often, Rose. It will serve you well.

 

I understand your thinking. You are equating your happiness with being self centered. That is not the case at all. Just thinking that way is a learned behavior. You learned that feeling unhappy is good and making others happy is paramount to your self worth. But thinking of yourself means you are selfish. Look at your father, for example. He has sacrificed his life to keep your mother happy. She may not be happy as we would normally define it, but for her and your father, that is what works. But if you ask him if he is happy, what do you feel he would say?

 

Making Dave's happiness a priority instead of your own is also a learned behavior. That is what you are explaining when you say "why is it my right to be happy, I am going against him being his happy self". Why do you have to be unhappy in order for him to be happy? It's because he is self centered and abusive. And in order for him to be happy, someone has to pay because he wants the happiness for himself. If you had some, he would not be the center of the universe and he could not control you. So you are made to give up being happy so you can serve him and his needs.

 

If you were in a healthy relationship (i.e. not abusive), you would not have to be unhappy so your husband could be happy. He would want you to be yourself, feel good and he would support your freedom to be yourself. And in turn, you would do the same for him. You would not be dependent on each other for your happiness, but you would improve each other's happiness. He would want to give to you and you would feel the same.

 

This is where how you feel about yourself comes in. If you see yourself as undeserving, then how Dave treats you is going to confirm how you feel. But if you feel valuable and worthy, Dave's behavior would seem outrageous and abusive. So changing how you feel about yourself is vital. Self esteem feels very good, Rose. You will find that the more you believe in yourself, the less you need others for approval. You will do something and feel proud of yourself, which increases your happiness. And your relationships will seem like a bonus rather than a necessity for your self worth.

 

Thank you for the kudos but you are the one that found me and K and asked for help. You did this Rose. It is you striving to be healthy, wanting to be out of the abusive relationship and free to feel good about yourself and your life that got us all together. I am glad to be here for you and I am inspired by how far you have come. I agree with you, you may get out that door before you feel ready, but getting out is what counts. We can deal with the emotions later. You are smart, resourceful and know what you want. That is what will get you out and free.

 

I'm doing this one as an info only because, you sneaky girl, you paid for the last one.

 

What did we have for dinner tonight?

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Kate, what are you like? I paid bc you wrote me a long answer just after the one you said shouldn't be an answer! (now I'm confused!) Gotta keep you on your toes tho' :)

I have just been hit by feelings of doubt and self criticism, and I know there will be many more to come, it brings me down sharply and throws me way back. I mentioned to Sam that D had taken the day off to do his accounts, but he'd spent the whole afternoon in bed. I know I shouldn't have told Sam, but he is usually an ally that I can share with. Sam said you know he isn't very clever at that stuff, I said I'd only asked him to do the receipts and invoices. D came over for supper (we had Chicken Korma made with the left-over roast chicken from last night, yum), and Sam said, I'll help you with the accounts if you pay me a fiver! D said you might have to if mum doesn't do the invoices on the computer. I was a little tetchy, I admit, maybe didn't speak to D as politely and calmly as I should have, but I told him irritably that they didn't need to be posh and typed up, it was only for the accountant to look at, not the clients, just hand written will be fine. I said I have clearly written everything out for you. D didn't like my tone of voice, said why can't you talk to be normally?! Sam said, yes it is annoying mum. I said I have written everything down in plain English, but he didn't like my notes, he said why didn't I just tell him, speak it to him??????????? I.H.A.T.E......!!!!

My world tumbled quickly, Sam was upset with me, D got up and left the table with his dinner, my head was bowed, thinking what have I said, done, it's me, I am so mean, what am I doing, he will tell me I'm abusive, maybe I AM abusive, I don't know, now I'm speaking out, I'm not nice, is it OK to be not nice, I will be blamed, for all this upset, what will he say when he gets the letter, I know what I want but is it all me?

I've just taken Sam to a friend's house, I told him I was upset, I told him a little more of the issue, and he said sorry, he didn't know the whole story. I said dad gets away with talking to us all the way he does, and when I say something out of character I am made to feel tiny. Sam said that D had told him that I've blocked him out of my life, and he said he doesn't know why. I said I've had to to survive, can't talk to him just can't. Sam said he couldn't tell him that living with him is sh*t.

I remember I used to have a voice, and I remember these feelings when I did try to make my thoughts known. Now I remember why I shut my voice away, bc I didn't like the things that I said, and I didn't like how I felt, and so it seemed better not to say anything, and he'd not be at me bc I was telling him how I felt................

I'm not being a good mom tonight, Poppy has lots to do, and she has company (without asking permission). I feel like giving up on being a homework monitor, it's too much right now.

It is OK to want out?

Rose
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thank you Kate,
Goodnight
Rosex.
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

It is perfectly fine to want out, Rose. I couldn't be more happier for you! What you did tonight was great. Including Sam probably confused things for you, but what you did with Dave was great. He is trying to manipulate you by commenting again and again about how you won't do the accounts for him. He is hoping to find an angle, just as you said, to wear you down so you give in.

 

You did just fine getting upset at Dave and telling him how you felt. You are not being abusive. You are reacting very normally. I know it feels abusive because of how you were raised. Sam jumped in there because he is used to the family dynamics being the way they were- Dave yells, is abusive and gets his way- you give in and do what it takes to keep the peace no matter what you feel about it. That is changing and the kids need time to adjust.

 

What you want is to not be abused anymore. It is hard to see that you are living in an abnormal situation with Dave. You know intellectually that this is not right, but your training from childhood tells you that this is how you are supposed to act to keep yourself safe. Except that it doesn't work. Dave never stops abusing and you never get what you need. Asserting yourself to stop the abuse is not abusive, it is not wrong and it is very healthy. It just goes against what you were taught, which was that abuse is ok.

 

Look at the evidence around you. You are in an abusive marriage. You are not abusive, Dave is. K, Adele and I would not lie to you. We have no reason to. Mark would not react the way he does to Dave if there was not a reason to. The kids would not avoid home and be upset around Dave if he was not the way he is. They do not act that way around you, right? That is because you are not abusive. There is proof everywhere and you can hold onto what you see and hear to counter what you feel.

 

You are a good mom, Rose. You are just feeling the stress of standing up to Dave and his behavior with his accounts. It takes a lot of energy to deal with his actions and your feelings. You need a break. Poppy will be ok with whatever you can offer her.

 

Sorry about the confusion with the accepts. I was just trying to make it fair to you so you didn't accept a short response. I think we are back on track now, though. Thanks for keeping me on my toes!

 

Chicken Korma, I've never had it. I'll have to look it up. We had chicken too-Fajitas. I really like them.

 

Get some good sleep, Rose!

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Morning Kate,

thank you. I wonder if I will ever be able to over-ride those feelings of discomfort when I speak out, try to make my feelings known. Now it is quite clear why I have shut down for all these years and kept everything to myself. This morning I am feeling that I am really struggling, but I can't go backwards, I have come thus far, and I must get out. As I was driving from Poppy's school to AA's I was trying to put things into perspective, how he makes us all feel from time to time, and how unacceptable that is; thinking about the SS visiting, reasons why they have been called in, them talking to D, what the fallout of that will be, how I will cope with the meeting.

My brother phoned yesterday to talk to me, I was a little taken aback, but he wanted to ask me if I'd like to be included in a gift to mum and dad for their combined birthdays, but he didn't want to share the cost of it. The gift is a first edition book written by an ancestor, (my maiden name isXXXXX), who was a very well known architect in America (Benjamin H. Latrobe)in the early 1800s, built Baltimore Cathedral, and worked on the White House, and Capitol in Washington amongst other things. He was the son of Rev Benjamin Latrobe (Moravian Church), and this book apparently contains drawings by the Rev of many places that are mentioned in the Bible. He'd found this book on the internet, and had ordered it from the US. I am looking forward to having a good look. Richard was lovely, very kind, asked how I was, whether any progress had been made for me. Helen my sister had told him and his wife about my issues at Christmas. I wasn't feeling able to tell him anything yesterday, but said things were moving forward.

I feel very unrested this morning, have a long day ahead, AA now, Alexis, Poppy needs help with homework, then skype with K. I am sitting in my car bc I have a few minutes to spare before seeing AA bc I took Poppy for her violin lesson, and the school that I take her to isn't back til tomorrow, so no lesson. I did know that, just getting muddled. So Poppy was at school early, and I have a few moments before I begin.

Back later,

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Good morning, Rose!

 

It sounds like you have been doing a lot of introspective thinking about your situation with Dave. It is good to remind yourself of why you feel as you do, because you do not feel this way for no reason. This can't be all about you. People do not just make up reasons to be upset. It is always in reaction to something going on around them. This is very evident from your visit to the coast last year. You felt completely different when you were away than you did when you were home, with Dave. It was almost a night and day difference. This tells you that something overwhelming is happening at home. That overwhelming thing is Dave's behavior. The kids are reacting too. Their behavior shows that they are stressed and unsettled. They don't just avoid Dave for no reason.

 

I was so glad to hear that your brother was kind to you and thoughtful about your situation. Maybe he has had a chance for some growth himself and has seen some of what happened to him as well as a result of your childhood. That could mean the possibility of a new relationship with him and that would be a very good thing for you both.

 

I am fascinated by history and really enjoyed hearing about your family's past. There is a place in Pennsylvania called Latrobe and it made me wonder if the place has anything to do with your family. Pennsylvania is close to Baltimore and Washington, DC, about 6 hours away. I'd be interested to hear what you think of the book when you get to see it. What a thoughtful gift for your parents!

 

You do have a busy day planned. I hope you get some time to rest in between jobs and family responsibilities. If you can't just try to remember to take deep breaths and allow yourself a few extra minutes here and there.

 

I'll be thinking of you!

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

sneaking a quickie while on lunchbreak. Just copied this from the Latrobe Presbyterian Churches website....'In 1851, Oliver M. Barnes, an engineer for the Pennsylvania Railroad, purchased the land which is now downtown Latrobe and laid it out in lots. He named it for Benjamin F. Latrobe, an old school friend and fellow railroader who worked for the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. Benjamin F. Latrobe was the son of Benjamin H. Latrobe, the famous architect and Superintendent of Buildings in Washington, D.C. under Thomas Jefferson.' We were originally French Huguenots, came to England, then Ireland, then America (maybe we went to America with your family!!) So yes, anything Latrobe is connected :)

To work, wish I could talk to you all afternoon ;)

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Wow, Rose, that is so cool! I have been to Latrobe and it's very pretty. Rolling hills and lots of land, very green. Now it's famous for the start of football season (American football- The Steelers team) where the teams practice and for the colleges.

 

Isn't it funny how small the world can be?

 

I would love to talk with you all day. Working together or chatting, we always seem to have a good connection!

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hey Kate,

I was thrilled by your enthusiasm! We are directly descended from the Reverend's brother, but there is a very close-knit La Trobe 'community' around the world, celebrating the many well known Latrobes, including the first lieutenant-governor of the colony of Victoria, Australia, when early settlers were taken there from the UK by ship (early 19th ). There is a La Trobe University and many other place names there too (he was Benjamin H.'s nephew). There is so much more!!! But I have to go meet K. D isn't hjome yet, therefore I assume he will be home sometime during my skype, so I'll have to take it next door. Thank you for your interest Kate, it has been a welcome distraction, checking my ancestry in the history books!

Til later

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

Thank you for sharing it with me! I love history and when it becomes a (almost) personal connection, it is even more fascinating.

 

I can't believe there is so many La Trobe's around the world. I thought there was just the little town in Pennsylvania. I will have to share what you told me with my husband (leaving out your name of course!). He is from Pennsylvania and will find it very interesting.

 

I hope your session goes well with K!

 

Talk to you later,

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hey Kate,

I have had an evening from hell, next door in the cottage, skyping, D banging on the door, very drunk, shouting obscenities at K, every other word f***ing, top of his voice, out side the door, going away, throwing a stone at the window, coming back..... K has it all written down.

I came home and he was asleep on my bed, it stank of stale booze. I gathered my things up and put a z-bed mattress up in the ‘office’ with Poppy’s sleeping bag. I told the kids what had happened, they were very angry. I went back to my room to get something else, he woke up, sat up, then lay back down again without saying anything. A few mins later he got up and came upstairs, and was very angry, shouting, swearing again. Angry at K, all Americans start wars, if she’s so f***ing clever what’s she still doing in America. You should be talking to US, I hate being on my own, talk to me, me , me and my friends, your mental state would be much better, why an American, she’s only OK if she’s an atheist. etc I recorded the last 8 minutes. I’ll write it out tomorrow. He was angry that I have made a bed for myself up here, demanded that I go to my bed, but I say I’m OK up here. Poppy and Sam were in deep argument, both saying he’s very drunk, he’s denying it. Anyway, the rest tomorrow, too tired now. I’ll try to sleep.

Goodnight Kate, tell you more in the morning

Rosex
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Oh Rose, I am sorry. It sounds like Dave had another tirade, this time a pretty scary one, blaming you for everything. I am very glad that K heard it so she was with you, in a way, for support.

 

How did you feel through this whole thing?

 

I hope you can sleep after going through this tonight. I will look for your post in the a.m.

 

Take care of yourself, Rose.

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Morning Kate,

I had a nice evening with the kids, quiet and calm. D wasn't home by 8pm, I had no choice but to go next door for my skype. His darts season seems to be finished so he doesn't come homw and have supper, then go out, he drinks on his way home. I settled in the dining room of the cottage, at the table, I haven't sat there before. I had the lights on, but left the curtains open, I was in a hurry to be on time, and I also left the doors unlocked, which I have never done before. The window I was sitting near looks directly at the entrance to our drive, and D had a perfect view of me as he swung in the drive in his van at 8.15, and hooted his horn. K heard the horn, saw me looking, asked if that was D home. I got up and shut the curtains. She said did he see you, is that why he hooted? Yes. seconds later he was knocking on the porch door, I opened the inner door, he'd already opened the outside door, but hadn't come in. He said I've been to the ponies, they're fine. I said thank you. He said what are you doing here? Talking to K, is that all right? He said, I don't know, is it all right? I said do you want to come and talk to her? No f***ing way, not an American..... I asked him to leave and give me some peace. What does she know about peace, Americans start wars. I said please leave me alone.

I locked the inner door, and he left. I was shaking, and couldn't look at K for a little while, but I put my headphones back on, and she was calming me, saying breathe, he's gone, then there was a loud crack against the window beside me, he had thrown a stone at me, which made me jump with fear. K said it made her jump too, but she didn't know what it was til a couple of mins later when I told her, she said is that what that loud crack was? She saw me jump.

Then he was back again, through the outer door, trying to get in the inside door, banging banging. I said I have to go talk to him, K said take me with you, so I kept the headphones on, but didn't think to set the webcam so that she could see. He was mad, gesticulating wildly, severely damning K, asking what her denomination was, that she's brainwashing me; damning all Americans, they are all the same, they start wars, she has no idea how we live here, every other word f***ing, top of his voice, houses close by in the neighbourhood. He left after 3 or 4 mins of complete tirade, I don't even know if I spoke. I might have said go away, leave me alone, I don't know. Then I locked the outer door as well as the inside door. He came back one more time, but didn't do any more than bang on the outer door.

K and I tried to document everything he said, she said she was glad that it happened bc now she knows what he's like, I have a witness, and that she is 110% sure that I have been minimizing his behaviour, and that I should have no doubt in myself anymore. She wants to write it up and send it to Dr H, find out what's going on, say I need help to get him out asap, and maybe my lawyer too. It has helped me to feel sure about what I want.

Poppy was in the house with a friend. She phoned me just as I was about to text her to tell her what he was like. She wanted to know where her biology book was. I told her, then said Dad is very drunk and in a very bad mood, she said why, bc I'm talking to K in the cottage. I was glad she had a friend with her. They locked themselves in Sam's room, he was out in the village, so I was relieved they could do that.

When I got home I went straight into my room. D was asleep on my bed, stale booze is horrible isn't it? I was quiet, took my stuff I needed for the night and left him. I went back to find my diazepam to help me sleep and he woke up as I was searching for it in my drawer. He sat up on my bed beside me, I didn't look at him, he didn't speak, lay back down again. I got myself set up in the mezzanine with what I could, sleeping bag, Sam's spare pillows, netbook, phone. Poppy's friend left, and Poppy came in to go to bed. Sam came in a few mins later and asked if I was OK. I told him what had happened, Poppy too, they were horrified, thought he was an idiot, we all had a big hug together. D came up the stairs, and started running me down to the kids, telling them I talk to an American, I should be talking to him, them, all of us together. Poppy says she needs to talk to someone who can help her with her problems, you aren't trained, do you know about the mind dad? She should talk to me, sort things out with me, talk to my (his) friends, they will help more than talking to someone who lives in America. And it wouldn't cost money. I say would you be happier if I had a therapist in the UK? He said if that's what you want to do.

Why are you up there? Why are you shutting another door between us? You've already built one wall against me (my own room), now you're building another wall (the mezzanine). Why are you sleeping up there, don't be so stupid, go to your bed. Sam and Poppy are arguing with him, trying to make him see reason, there is lots of swearing, D is mad mad mad, pacing around. Poppy telling him he's drunk, go to bed. He replies he isn't drunk, he can walk in a straight line. Sam comes back in from his room, says what's going on now? Tries to sort D out, get him to leave it. Poppy is upset, D says why are you upset, she says bc you are being so mean to mum, she just wants to try to get better. D says this is doing my head in, I can't work properly, I can't think straight. Poppy says why don't you get help too then dad.. I don't need help. Dad go to bed, I want to go to bed, it's late, you're drunk, go to sleep.

I had recorded some of the conversation, but now I try to find it again, I can't. Shame.

I slept OK on the floor, was a little cold, took me a while to settle, so I took a diazepam bc I couldn't keep my legs still, and I slept OK til early this am. I'm sore today, but hey, no surprises there.

I'd love you to share my history with your hubby. You have to tell him my name! (well, maiden name) :)

I'm quickly visiting my parents before work with Kitty. More later if I can remember it

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose, that is absolutely horrible. I cannot believe that Dave did that to you. He traumatized you. I think K is right, you are so used to what Dave puts you through that you may not know how traumatizing it really is when he does these things.

 

Dave does a lot of deflecting with his feelings. He blames K, Americans and anyone who threatens his ability to maintain control over you and the family. He never sees that it is him causing the problems. You do not see a therapist because you have mental problems, you see one because you are in a traumatizing abusive situation caused by Dave. He lacks the insight to see that he is the source of your distress. Typical of abusive people, he only thinks the problem lies with others and not him.

 

Having him bang on your door, throw rocks at the window (near you- you could have been hurt) and scream at you shows how out of control he is. He is losing control of you and he knows it.

 

As I read through your post, I kept wondering how you feel about all of this. I am guessing that you are so numb to being abused that your feelings may be inaccessible, what do you think? Seeing this for what it is can be hard for someone who is numb to the intensity. But facing a drunk abusive person is very frightening and can cause you to experience PTSD symptoms, even if you feel you are desensitized to it. You are still taking this in, so you are going to react to it in some way. Let me know if you start to experience symptoms.

 

The kids may be feeling the same way. Here is their father, roaring drunk and out of control. He is abusing their mother and them. Trying to reason with him is probably the only option they felt they had for some control over the situation. But even then, they still would be horribly traumatized. They may not show it (because they are used to it as well) but some kind of reaction is guaranteed.

 

How do you feel about K telling Dr. H what has gone on? How are the kids this morning? Do they feel they need any help, maybe someone to talk to? I can't imagine what it is like for them trying to go to school after witnessing something like that. They must be feeling a bit shellshocked.

 

Do you have a plan on how you want to deal with this from here? You may want to consider speeding up your plans and get him removed now. Your attorney may also need to hear about this in case there is any legal rights you have to remove Dave right away. You may want to think about asking K to talk to the attorney about what she heard if you feel it would help.

 

I will be thinking of you, Rose. I'm here for you whenever you want to talk.

 

Katex

 

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

thank you so much for your post. It really helps to hear how unacceptable his behaviour really is, and you are so right with everything. Before I read your post I was in the field with Lola, wondering why I feel so empty, without feeling; I was thinking it's as if they have been compartmentalized, and I can't touch them. I thought I haven't cried, been angry, nor afraid- no, that's not true, I was afraid in the cottage, and I was afraid when he got back up last night, but otherwise I have just coped by not looking at him, or speaking to him, except for one or two words. He has not said one word about last night, not to me, nor the kids. He has tried to talk to the kids, but they aren't really interested, though not deliberately not speaking to him.

Dave is deflecting, blaming, and when I tell him I have a UK therapist he will be stumped, but at least he can't blame everything on K, which he clearly is, he thinks she is brainwashing me into believing I need to get away from him, as if she is from a religious sect (that's why he asked over and over what her denomination was- I didn't think it was any of his business, I didn't know anyway.) I see Adele tomorrow, and I might tell him I've been seeing her for several months. He will go absolutely nuts when the SS come, and at least K can rest easy it wasn't her to call them (and I don't need to lie)

K mentioned PTSD last night, but I forget in what context, it was just as he had finished his banging and shouting. What symptoms might I have? I have been reliving it over and over today, not that I want to make it anymore real or vivid, but just to get it clear, and to make sure I feel ready for the next stage.

The kids seem OK, though Poppy was upset last night, and yes, she has seen it many times before. She always tries to reason with him, she knows he doesn't talk sense when he's drunk, and she thinks she can make him see sense, when there is absolutely no chance of that AT ALL. I apologised to her this morning about his behaviour last night, she just said that's Ok, don't worry. Of course I worry, maybe the SS will be able to recommend that she has counselling at school, she doesn't seem to think she needs it when I've mentioned it. I told her the yesterday that Sam has had counselling at College, and she said why, I said personal stuff and dad stuff. So maybe she will be a bit more receptive now she knows Sam has. I took Sam to college this morning, he had missbusitis, and he said he likes coming in the car with me. For some reason I didn't think to talk to him about D and last night, I had another concern that had come to the fore, namely cannabis, and his friend stayed last night without my knowledge. He was on good form tonight though, he'd taken his increased dose of Concerta today (45mg) and he felt it was finally helping him with his studying.

K has told Dr H of episodes on a few occasions, she has wanted to share what she knows with another professional in the UK, and I have been OK with that. Dr H said she had no idea how horrible he was being to me and the kids until she heard from K. That was when she wanted to call in the SS the first time, but I went loopy over it, and K wrote again to say it's OK just now. K hasn't mentioned Dr H today, just my lawyer and SS, whom she is happy to be in touch with. I've said I will phone the lawyers office tomorrow to get the letter out, and to tell him as best I can what's been going on. K said that she'd be happy to set up a skype appointment with him if he felt it would help.

I'm listening to Poppy singing upstairs and she is making me smile. I wish I could encourage her to talk to someone. K has offered to have a family meeting (without Lord Voldemort) and talk about what we are hoping will happen. I don't think Poppy would be too keen on that, though It would be good to have some sort of a warning for the kids as to what to expect.

D is out. Sam too.

Back before Zzzzs

Rose
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hey Kate,

`am set for bed.

I had a few mins with Poppy earlier, asked her how she felt about last night, she said she was upset at the time, but felt OK about it today.

Goodnight my friend and confidante

Rosex
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.
Rose,

What you described that is going on with your feelings, not feeling angry, upset etc, is what I was talking about. Repressing your responses to the trauma you went through last night and responding as you did when you were a child was the reaction you had instead of feeling those emotions. You have become very experienced with not responding to the violence but instead you shut your feelings off. That is why K and I think you might have symptoms of PTSD. Some of the symptoms that you may have are:

Guilt, shame, or self-blame

Depression and hopelessness

Physical aches and pains

Feeling detached from others and emotionally numb

Anger issues

In severe cases, feelings can be so repressed that you feel almost nothing. Combined with co dependency, you can literally be like a volcano inside and not be aware of it.

Showing Dave that you do have an UK therapist may seem like a good option, but in a way it is seeking his approval. He does not need to know that Adele exists, because for one, he will never be happy with anyone that is trying to help you get out from under his thumb and two, it only serves to show him that you still can be influenced by his opinion, which is only based on ways to hurt you and keep you in the marriage. Dave's opinion on anything doesn't matter. The only important thing is that you get you and the children away from him.
Poppy (and Sam) may seem ok, but no child is going to be alright from witnessing such violent behavior. They may have grown up with seeing Dave go off, drunk and violent but that does not make it normal. The kids should have a loving father who cares for them and is a safe person in their lives. And they know it, deep inside. But they have to cope with Dave and the results of his actions do affect them, inside. They cannot afford to show it to anyone because they do not feel safe. I do hope that Poppy will seek help. There is bound to be a lot under the surface for her.

I know it is hard to see what happened last night and compare it to what is normal behavior for a husband and father. You have never had the chance to be with anyone normal, except for your boyfriend before Dave. You may have to accept my word, K's word and Adele's when she hears from you what happened. Dave was extremely violent last night based on frustration and you reaching out for help. If he reacts to the SS visit like you think he will, it will not be safe for you and the kids. The best thing to do now is to get Dave out of your home. What ever you feel is holding you back try to put aside and intellectualize this situation. Take whatever steps you need to so Dave has to leave. I fear for your safety and the children's safety.

Kate
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thank you Kate,

K tells me his behaviour is heinous. It is, I know. Why doesn't he think it's wrong? Why does he never have any remorse? And why can't I react appropriately to him? He tells me that the way I speak to him is out of order, and I am thrown into self criticism. I have raised my voice to him regarding the accounts when he's pushing me to do them for him, but I get told I should speak to him 'normally, in a normal tone of voice'. He tells me he is the only one with 'a voice' (we know how true that is!), but that we need to talk to each other (an impossible task)

I feel cold and hard when it comes to feeling towards what he does, that I have an outer case that can be tapped, rap rap, and I don't feel him. I have all those symptoms you list, and K said my symptoms of PTSD were severe when we started talking 18 months ago, but they are less now. I have difficulty showing anger, I know I swallow that, and my insides hurt so much.

I know he wouldn't be happy if he knew about Adele, there would be more questioning, accusations of lying about where I've been, who I've been talking to.

I have emailed Adele, I had to admit that I'd been seeing K over the Easter break while she had been away. I hope she doesn't mind, but 3 weeks is a long time to go when there is so much going on. So I have told her what went on the other night. I wonder if she knows what happens with the SS, and whether they can recommend counselling for Poppy. I think she feels numb too, blocks everything out, just tries to move on. And I don't know if she shares with anyone about it, I know she is embarrassed (both the kids were embarrassed to here he'd been yelling in the street)

I have emailed my lawyer, and he has phoned me this morning. I said I'm getting desperate now, and would like the letter for security. He is putting it in the post today, sending it to my parent's address. It's Thursday today, another week nearly gone without word from the SS, this isn't fair.

I am completely devoid of energy, I just want to lie and sleep, yesterday, today. It's not that I didn't sleep soundly last night, I did, just so drowsy now, and all the time. 15 mins before I go to kitty, then I see Adele straight after.

Til later

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

I am glad that you are seeing Adele today. The support is important after what you have been through.

 

Dave does not think what he is doing is wrong because this is how he learned to see the world. Probably during his childhood, his parents or caregivers showed him that in order to get his needs met, he should see the world in a very self centered way. Just as someone who grows up drinking milk every morning thinks that is normal behavior, Dave thinks that screaming and abusing is the way to make himself normal.

 

On the other hand, you grew up learning that self sacrifice and repressing your feelings is the best way to relate to the world. You accept Dave's behavior because you saw your parent's relationship as a model of how a marriage should be. You were also abused and neglected which you adapted to by giving in and trying to please. When Dave tells you to speak to him in a certain way, you criticize yourself because that is what you learned- everything is your fault, especially if someone is unhappy. So you and Dave together create an abusive dynamic. That is part of the reason to be concerned for the kids. They are witnessing Dave's behavior and may feel that is the way to cope with life. It's good that Sam is in therapy but Poppy needs to be as well. Hopefully, she will go.

 

It's good you contacted your lawyer. But I encourage you to also see if there is a way to get Dave out of the home now, based on his behavior the other night. He was violent and threatened you. That is enough grounds for the police to remove him. Your safety and the children's safety is the priority here. I know it's hard to think that he might go off and hurt you, but it only takes one time for him to lose it completely and you will not be able to stop him.

 

It takes a lot of energy to deal with what happened to you. You are using a lot of energy to repress your natural reaction to the trauma (anger, tears and fear) and also rationalizing why he needs to stay. His feelings and reactions are very important to you so you are invested in what he thinks and feels about everything. That can take a lot out of you.

 

If you can, try to take some time today, away from Dave and the situation. Talk to those around you who are supportive. It's good that you are seeing Adele today. She can help you process this and find a good path. If you get a chance, let me know how it goes with her.

 

Take care, Rose. You are in my thoughts,

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

just wanted a word while you're online, but I am struggling to get through my evening I'm so tired, just want to sleep. Poppy needs help in a min, I'm dreading trying to revise biology with her.

I have a few things to tell you, I hope I can be back later, I wish I could talk now, but I'm feeling incapable of thinking anything!

Back soon

Rose :)
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

Thank you for your post. D is utterly clueless, on all counts.

just wanted a word while you're online, but I am struggling to get through my evening I'm so tired, just want to sleep. Poppy needs help in a min, I'm dreading trying to revise biology with her.

I have a few things to tell you, I hope I can be back later, I wish I could talk now, but I'm feeling incapable of thinking anything!

Back soon

Rose :)

ps a woman left a message for me on my home phone for me to ring her when I can, I wonder if she is the Social worker. I'll ring tomorrow morning. I'm not feeling good. at. all.
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Hi Rose, I've been thinking about you all day. I'm here for a while longer so if you have time, let me know how you are doing.

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

Poppy has just woken me with a kiss goodnight, says you'd better go to bed mum, it's 23.30. I wasn't able to help her at all, I hope she'll be OK for her test tomorrow. She's late to bed too. D is out.

Ah, thank you for your thoughts :) I so want to talk to you but can't, I must go back to sleep. Having not felt feelings today, this evening I have many, and tears, but I'll try to remember tomorrow.

Hope you are OK, thinking of you too. Hope you told your hubby about Latrobe ;)

Goodnight Kate,

Rosex
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

I'm sorry that you are feeling sad tonight, but it is a good start to being in touch with your feelings. I did share your story with my husband. He thought it was pretty cool!

 

Good night, Rose. Sleep well. I'll talk with you tomorrow,

 

Katex

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

Poppy and I see a Social worker this afternoon, 2 pm. She is coming to Poppy's school. I hope she won't be scared. She has to talk to her without me. Then I talk to her.

I have the letter from the lawyer. The weekend is coming and I am very afraid. It's not all going to be sorted at once, a bit here, and bit next week. I feel terrible, I have to go to my aunts now. I hopt to be back before I go to school.

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

Social services finally called you- that was a long wait!

 

Are you able to talk to Poppy beforehand? Maybe just to reassure her that everything is ok. Otherwise, I'm sure she will be ok. Poppy understands the situation and it's not like you haven't prepared her by talking to her about what is going on between you and Dave. She knows and she will figure out what to say.

 

What are you planning to do this weekend with the letter? Are you considering confronting Dave?

 

How did things go with Adele yesterday?

 

If I don't get a chance to talk to you before you have to see the worker, just remember to take a deep breath. Take a prop if you need to. I'll be thinking of you.

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

thanks. I assked the SW if I should talk to Poppy before hand, she said best not to. I am afraid she will be anxious being called out of lessons for a meeting, it will be a shock for her, I don't know if I'll get to see her beforehand, I want to give her a hug. I will get there early and see if I can say it will be OK. She obviously doesn't know yet, she hasn't texted me or rung.

I have just been thinking all morning about her sitting with the SW, not wanting to talk, like she does with me, saying everything is fine, but getting upset too. I'm imagining her being angry with me, that will be too much to bear.

I have had 3 props in my pocket all day, our blue-goldstone, a butterfly that K sent me, and a heart that Cathy gave me. Maybe I can find something for/from Poppy too.

I don't know about the letter. I need to think about it. i hope Poppy doesn't tell D that she's talked to a SW at school. But I won't tell her not to.

Adele and I just talked yesterday, catching up, she said I seemed stronger emotionally, why did I think that was? I said I feel well supported, that progress is being made. She wasn't cross that I'd talked to K, she said 3 weeks was a long time to be without.

Just stocking up on sweet things and a cuppa tea before I go.

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

I imagine that you are at the school by now talking with the social worker. I hope all is going well. I understand your fears around this, but as Adele said you are stronger emotionally so I have no doubt you will come through. Where you might not have been able to face this last year, you are becoming an expert on coping with very stressful situations!

 

Let me know how it went. I'm thinking about you!

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

What a long meeting, but she was very nice and kind. Poppy was meant to meet her at 2pm, then speak with her, then I speak with her. Poppy didn't turn up, so I went in and talked. Still no Poppy after half an hour so she went back to the desk to see where she was, they went to call her again.Poppy rang me at 3pm in tears saying she wasn't going to come, she didn't want to talk to any one, I said I'll come and find you, she told me where she was. I found her with a friend, who was saying it'll be OK, just go and talk to her. She didn't even know who it was, or why, but she assumed it was something to do with home bc I was here, though she didn't know that until the second time of being called, she was just asked to go to student support. Poor thing was all mixed up and didn't know what was happening, but I managed to persuade her to come with me, I didn't say she was a SW, just wanted to talk about home. Maybe she thought it was something to do with the other night, in fact I think she thought she was a counsellor.

So, during my chat, she took a brief family history, and told me that Dr H had referred due to the incident on the Sunday night, which I tried to recount as best I could, but had to rely on what the kids had told me for the first part, and I forgot part of the ending. I told her of other events that had happened, the evening he told us he was going to kill himself, Tuesday night, the night he took the kids from me when they were little and locked me out. We talked about his drinking habits, she knew about his DUI, that we have separate rooms bc of his drinking. I told her about his verbal aggression towards us all, his controlling behaviour, but wasn't able to paint a very good picture of what it's like to live with him.

We talked about my plans for the marriage, that I'd tried to get away twice, but he wouldn't allow it. I told her what my plans were with the lawyer, and she read the letter. She was clear that it was a situation that would be better if we separated, and seemed to be saying that it needs to be escalated, but I'm not sure how.

I told her that he had a dislike for authority (understatement!), and that I was anxious about them talking with him, that he would be very angry with me bc I'd been talking to them. I felt really bad, told her so, that I had been telling her all that stuff, I stopped in my thoughts on a couple of occasions thinking I mustn't say that, he will know I've told them such and such.... (drinking and driving for example).

She asked about the children's health, I said Poppy has been fine, Sam has been struggling with some emotional issues, that he has ADHD, some anger issues, mostly bc of D, that he has seen a counsellor, and can see her when he wants to, that he has a psych for his ADD, that he has started on meds. She asked about physical abuse, I just mentioned pushing and shoving, and that he had stamped on Sam's bare foot with work boots on, otherwise just intimidating and demeaning bahaviour, and plenty of verbal abuse.

I think we pretty much covered all bases, I could have added more and more, I talked OK, but cried many tears, and she referred to my anxiety and depression several times.

Poppy called at last, and she came in with me, she said she wasn't going to say anything, but I wasn't asked to leave. I sat on a chair behind the table, so Poppy could sit in my place, but she wanted to come and sit with me. She was crying as she came in, and the SW tried to reassure her that it was just a chat, she put her head on my shoulder and I put my arm around her. The SW asked Poppy if she knew what we were here for, and P said bc Mum's not well. The SW said is mum not well bc of things at home? P said yes. She asked P why she was afraid of talking to her, and P said bc I don't want mum and dad to split up. SW asked kindly if P had any friends whose parents had split up, she nodded and cried. She told her that often everyone is a lot happier if the parents split up, and who knows, once dad has sorted himself out, and mum feels better, maybe they can get together again. Poppy nodded.

She asked her if there were any times that dad had been physically aggressive, asked specifically what happened that night, in fact Poppy said what night was that, so we had to tell her a bit more about it. She didn't think much of it, but the SW realised that's bc there are many nights like it but she hasn't felt scared of him, or at risk of being hurt by him. She asked her if she had a good relationship with him, she said sometimes, but they argue a lot. We talked about ways of talking to grown ups, that she had lost her respect for him, that she was rude to him bc he was so unpleasant to her. The SW asked her if she fought with her brother, that they must make sure they don't hit each other, and that she mustn't hit her dad, then things get more complicated. Sigh.

She asked P if she wanted to report D for his behaviour (to the CPS), she said no. She asked me how I felt about them talking to D. I asked if P could wait outside. I didn't know what to say for a minute, I was silent. I didn't want them to speak to him. She said she really needs to talk to him, and tell him that his behaviour, drunkenness, drink driving etc needs to be sorted, that he is not giving a good example to the kids, that maybe they can suggest he gets help, to sort himself out.

I told her I was scared of his reaction, and she said she would let the domestic violence and abuse service get in touch with me, on my mobile, and arrange for some support from them, an outreach worker to meet with. She also gave me the out of hours number for the social work dept, though my file won't be written up, the referral will be there on the system.

I'll finish off after supper.....

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Wow, Rose, that is a lot. You really went through it today.

 

It's good that you were able to share all of that with the social worker. I understand your hesitancy to tell her everything. But I think that comes from the co dependency and the abuse. It is natural for you to want to keep all of it or even some of it to yourself, not only because you don't want anyone thinking about you in that situation, but because the nature of abuse is to keep it a secret. There is a lot of shame involved with being abused. Telling others, you may worry about how they feel about you. And for you, there is probably a lot of shame and a need to not let others know about Dave. You may feel it's not your right to tell others about what he does. And you mentioned many times your fear of what Dave might do. I think that is why the social worker encouraged you to escalate things. The faster you get him out of the home, the easier this all will be. You will be able to get the support you need without having to worry about Dave's reaction. You won't have to go to the school in order to hide it from Dave, either.

 

I am sorry that it was so hard on Poppy. She seems to feel very deeply about this. It is easier to tuck it away rather than have to face doing something about it. She probably wants you and Dave together for that reason. If you were apart, she might have to face how bad things really are. And that makes it hard on her. You may want to try to keep an eye on how much she hides her feelings. I know your plate is full to overflowing with everything so I don't want to put more on you, but no matter what happens, Poppy has been through a lot. If you can at all convince her (or maybe a worker or teacher can) to get therapy, it would help her a lot.

 

I am glad that you got through this so well. How are you feeling now that the initial meeting is over?

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thank you Kate,

I have remembered a few more bits, so this is a bit disjointed

She asked me why didn't I call the police with any of these incidences. I hung my head, didn't really know how to answer, I think I was anxious about having to deal with the consequences of what D would throw at me. But he has got away with this behaviour so many times, I know he needs to be brought up short and dealt with. I said that I'd called the ambulance that time, but I cancelled it when I knew he was bluffing.

She Poppy if she would like someone to talk to about things, she nodded, I said i wanted her to, she hasn't really wanted to talk to me, I know she must, but she will refuse I'm sure, she said on the way home that she won't speak to anyone else. She just tries to pretend it doesn't happen. Puts on a strong face. last night she was cross with me for something I said to D, told me my tone of voice wasn't good, D said hear hear, I was very upset at her, but I know it must be horrible for her, thinking that big changes will probably be happening, and she tries to keep us even. I said D had commented on Tuesday night he was the only one with a voice (how right he was), I said I'm not allowed to speak (all I asked was what time he'd got home that afternoon, bc he was home before 3pm, and complaining that he couldn't do such and such bc he'd been at work!!!!) And I asked her not to talk to me like that, my tone was barely uneven. But Sam had been upset with her for being cranky with him, not wanting to do anything he asked her to do, help with this or that. I know it's everything getting her down, on top of her. I asked Adele if I should get her some therapy, she said leave it for the moment. But I hope the SW will organise something for her, or I will speak to Adele again, or speak to the counsellor at school. OH HELP

Yes i did want to hide the meeting from D, when she phoned this morning she asked when would be a good time for her to come here and see everyone, but I said could I come to her office, she said no she didn't have an office that could be visited, I said i was anxious of D coming home bc he's s/e, and would feel more comfortable away from home, hence she suggested the school. I wanted to talk to her first before D was involved, hoping to avoid it. I guess he needs his comeuppance some how.

Poppy was a little upset with me in the car on the way home, but I'm glad she didn't know she was a SW, it's much better for her to think she was a counsellor- she even said she thought she'd recognise her bc she had met the counsellor at school that her friend was seeing. I said I was sorry that she'd been upset, asked her how she had been told that she was wanted, she just said she was told to go to student support, and she was scared as to what she was wanted for. I think she must have phoned Sam this afternoon once she left the classroom and realised I was at school, he said at supper that Poppy was no-way happy this afternoon, you know that don't you mum, but I said not now Sam, bc D was just sitting down for supper. I haven't asked him since then bc he has some friends here. Anyway, our journey home was OK after a little moodiness to begin with, and we talked about what she was going to do this evening, see her boyfriend and others in a nearby town. And then plans for tomorrow. She was fine by the time we got home, and we held hands as we often do when I'm driving along. Sam has given me some nice hugs this evening too.

She asked if I would tell D where i'd been this afternoon, i said no, but she said if Poppy decides to tell D then I will have to tell him.

K offered to skype this evening to make sure I was OK, but I don't feel well enough to talk, but I will email her all the details in a while. Do you know anything about Second Life? She is starting an 'emotional support group' through it for her patients, where we can interact with each other with text, or voice if we want. I haven't really worked out how it all works yet, but we are meeting tomorrow for our first session!

How do I feel? Well, ill, but relieved, I'm glad she was easy to talk to, and she was good with Poppy. Now the waiting and fear of the unknown is over, but I have to wait for phase II, which will no doubt be explosive, but I hope to have extra support in place by then, an outreach worker or whatever it's called, and I know the out-of-hours contact, I just need the courage to phone them if I need them.

Sitting at supper though I was feeling bad, guilty. D was home from the pub, just a couple I expect bc he's just out again now to another pub for a jam session. Sam was in a good mood, looking forward to an evening with friends, 2 girls already here(!), and he and D were interacting well (though D his usual teenager self). I scowled at D when he was holding his knife in his fist pretending to stab Sam with it (bc of something Sam had said), in good humour, he said don't be so anxious all the time, Sam knows I'm playing. Sam said everyone likes our house, D said, big smile, that's bc it's unique.

I don't want it to be bad all the time, but it makes it easier for me.........

I must rest a while,

Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Rose,

 

A lot of what you are experiencing is a fear of what Dave will do to you if you reach out and get help. He is causing the situation but has instilled fear in you about getting out of the situation. This leaves you feel trapped about doing anything. But you are pushing through anyway which is very admirable. That is what makes me think that you can do this. You are going against the abuse, seeking freedom. There is still some fear holding you back. That is ok, though. You are seeing that Dave does need his comeuppance and that he needs to mature and he will not do that on his own. Only your actions and those of the people you bring into the situation will be able to address that.

 

You have very good insight into Poppy's situation. I did not mean to assume you did not with my previous suggestions. And I know you worry about her. She is responding in ways that are not healthy for her. Getting her to see a counselor will help her a lot. She may not be ready now, like Adele said, but eventually she may be, especially when Dave is finally out of the home.

 

I would encourage you to think about calling the police as well. You may be fearful of Dave's response to you doing so, but with the right supports in place, you can. Try thinking about doing it first, planning out how you might handle any reaction Dave has. By thinking about it, you can make it easier to accept actually doing it. And also let the police know how afraid you are of Dave. They are trained in domestic situations and know how to handle him.

 

I'm glad the kids are doing well tonight and have plans for the weekend. It will help them and you cope better with the stress if they are happy and preoccupied.

 

I'll be out for a bit tonight so if you write, I will respond a little later than usual. I hope your night goes well, Rose.

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5507
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and 2 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hey Kate,

thanks... I didn't think for one minute that you thought I hadn't grasped the situation from Poppy's point of view. Truth is I have only been getting to grips with it lately, but now I see it goes much deeper than it appears. Any suggestions gladly received, my thoughts need to be everywhere! I can't miss anything lest I regret it.

I know the police have a domestic violence unit. I might see if I can email them and get reassurance from them that it is the right thing to do, and what the consequences of my doing so might be. I feel more comfortable when I know what to expect, that's why I was so anxious about the SS visit, the not knowing, so if have a bit more knowledge I might be brave enough to make the call.

I hope you have a good evening out tonight Kate, a family trip out? I've just driven down the valley to pick Poppy up, after finishing the vacuuming off- I do do things at odd times, but there was no-one here to disturb.

Goodnight Kate, thank you for all your support, it is without end :)

Rosex
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate
we were locked,
time to move...new account...... 'bluepapillon'
See you soon :)
Rose
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

I'm glad to hear from you, Rose! I was worried there for a bit. So we are onto the Latin word for butterfly (I had to look it up). You are so creative! I don't know how you do it :)

 

You're welcome, Rose. I always want to be here for you. This is a very scary time for you and I feel the need to be closer in case something goes on, just so you have as much support as you feel you need.

 

If your police have a domestic abuse division, definitely take advantage of it. It can only help you to know what information and resources are out there for you to use. Let me know what they say.

 

I did have a night out last night- just off to my sister's. Pizza, a hockey game on the TV and talking. She had to go to work (ugh a nurse's schedule! How do you all do it?) so we didn't stay long.

 

I'll check back later for your new thread.

 

Kate

 

Thank you for the beautiful butterfly! Her colors are stunning!

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