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Dr. Mark
Dr. Mark, Psychotherapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5154
Experience:  Dr. Mark is a PhD in psychology in private practice
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HELLO AGAIN.. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT MY HUSBAND AND

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HELLO AGAIN..
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT MY HUSBAND AND SON HAVE TALKED, HE WAS PRETTY MUCH WHO MY HUSBAND TALKED TO WHEN IT ALL CAME OUT. LIKE I SAID A HUGE CHANGE IN ATTITUDE ONCE HE STARTED THINGS UP WITH HER. I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT REGARDING WOMEN AND HATE. HER FEELING OF HATE TOWARDS ME IS PUTTING IT MILDLY... I HAVE GOTTEN THE FINGER FROM HER DRVING DOWN THE STREET. WE LIVE IN A SMALL TOWN AND YOU HEAR ALOT OF WHAT PEOPLE SAY AND SHE CONSTANTLY DEGRADES ME AND CALLS ME EXPIICIT NAMES. I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO BE IN THE SAME ROOM WITH HER.

AS FAR AS MY HUSBAND AND MY SON. MY HUSBAND HAS TOLD HIM HIS FEELINGS REGARDING HER AND HER CHILD AND WANTING TO PUT EVERYTHING BEHIND US. SHE IS A DAILY REMINDER, SHE IS VERY HATEFUL AND RESENTFUL. HER OWN WORDS TO MY HUSBAND. MY SON IS LIKE YOU SAID, AN ADULT AS FAR AS CHRONOLIGICAL AGE, HE HAS VERY MUCH BEEN DEPENDENT ON HIS FAMILY. WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD A VERY CLOSE FAMILY WITH MY HUSBAND AND I DOING EVERYTHING FOR OUR KIDS. WE WERE ALWAYS A CONSTANT THAT THEY COULD DEPEND ON IN THEIR LIVES. UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE HAD SOME EXTREMELY DIFFICULT PAST FEW YEARS WITH OUR MIDDLE TEENAGE SON... DRUG USE, VIOLENT BEHAVIOR AND HIM HAVING A CHILD WHEN HE WAS 16. BACK TO MY 22 YR OLD... HE IS (OUR FAULT I'M SURE) A VERY SPOILED CHILD..BOTH MATERIALLY AND EMOTIONALLY. SOME OF HIS WORDS TO HIS DAD WHEN THEY HAD THEIR DISCUSSION WERE *&^#$^ YOU ! MY HUSBAND HAD SAID TO ME THAT HE WASN'T GOING TO PUSH HIM AWAY THAT HE WOULD HAVE PATIENCE WITH THE WHOLE SITUATION. AFTER A FEW OF THEIR TALKS THAT TURNED INTO ARGUMENTS... WHEN MY SON DIDNT HEAR WHAT WE WANTED TO HEAR, MY HUSBAND SAID HE WAS VERY DISAPOINTED IN HIM AND FELT LIKE MY SON NEEDED TO MAYBE FIGURE OUT SOME OF THIS ON HIS OWN... MAYBE A LESSON IN GROWING UP.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Mental Health
Expert:  Dr. Mark replied 2 years ago.
I am so sorry. This is so much more hurtful than I had understood from the previous information I had. And the problems are very longstanding I see with your son.

First, though, you're right about the hate. I was operating on the information that she just said something casually to someone else once. I see that she is a person who is very devoted to being hateful. There is clearly a psychological issue she has that she's playing out here. I don't know whether there was abuse in her past or some trauma, but this type of "need to hate", need to spew invective, is almost always a sign of psychodynamic problems. Wow. What you've related about her is very overpowering.

Your husband did the right thing. I don't want to get into the longstanding problem: you're almost certainly right about being too permissive, etc. But that's in the past and you're living in the now. And your son is clearly not as close with you as you would like to believe.

I don't know how to get him to be as close. You two want to think of your family as close. I don't know about the middle boy, but this older one is clearly not feeling closeness. He's feeling rage, entitlement, and seeking revenge of some sort. He seems to have a lot of strong feelings inside.

What to do?

Boy, this is very late in the game with your son. There's very little to do now. He's an adult as we've said. You can only draw your lines in the sand. He'll be even angrier toward you two for all of the past problems growing up. But that seems unavoidable now. You've got to be able to live your lives and he's trying to make it unlivable for you as is she.

If you can get him to family therapy with you, that may help. It will have to be a very, very smart and capable family therapist. This is not an average problem. Your family is having a very serious problem that has longstanding roots.

Here is the web address for Psychology Today's therapist directory. You can sort by zip codes and when you see someone who seems like they might be helpful (they show you a photo of the therapist!) look at the listing and see if they list family therapy as a main thing they do in the areas they work with. Interview the therapist and make sure his/her values are similar to you and you feel confident and comfortable with him/her.

http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/

Good Therapy is a non profit directory. Same idea as the one above:

http://www.goodtherapy.org/advanced-search.html

So, the botXXXXX XXXXXne is that you're right, it's awful and your son's being despicable. And you're not going to get anywhere near what you want in the short term. Meaning, he's not going to let you have a relationship with him unless it's on his terms. And his terms are that you have to be totally miserable, humiliated, and groveling. He has her to make sure of that.

So, you have to start telling him no. You don't want to take his offer. You need to let him spin off on his own and offer to visit together with him without her at a restaurant sometimes or at a park. Making rules with him will not win points in the short term, but it's long overdue and has the only hope long term.

Okay, I wish you the very best!

Please remember to click the green accept button because: even though you have made a deposit, I do not get paid for my time unless you press ACCEPT. You are not charged anything more than the deposit you already made by pressing ACCEPT. Feel free to continue the discussion even after pressing ACCEPT as my goal is to get you the best answer possible. Bonuses are always appreciated! If I can be of further help with any issue now or in the future, just put "for Dr. Mark" in the front of your new question, and I'll be the one to answer it. All the best, XXXXX XXXXX

Dr. Mark, Psychotherapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5154
Experience: Dr. Mark is a PhD in psychology in private practice
Dr. Mark and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thanks again for you answer, it gives me much to think about. Counseling is a good idea, unfortunAtely we do live in a small town fairly isolated ... Four hours travel one way to a town of any substantial size. We do have a mental health center here, I believe they have one counselor. Unfortunately, our neighbor works there... Need I say more ?

If you don't mind I just have a few more thoughts.

Dont get me wrong my son is a likeable person, but he most definitely has his selfish side that is not very like able. He does lash out and he does say things, this is where I would think his maturity should come into play. I thought about what you said regarding the closeness I felt our family had . Like I said we have always been there for our kids in every way, maybe so much to a fault. I understand my son's anger and disappointment for what I did. His dad and I have always had a very good and close relationship that everyone around us envied. The last few years have been rough and I told my son life happens people make mistakes and don't always make the right choices and I am sorry for that. I believe the reason it was so easy for my husband and I took fix things was the fact that beneath everything we do have a deep love for each other and he knows the person I truly am . The part that really hurts is that I have not a single doubt in my mind that I have been an amazing mom (I have cards from my son expressing this) . I told him I felt so betrayed by him,that when I needed him he basically turned to the enemy, rather than supporting me right or wrong.

My middle son reacted pretty much true to his character... He lashed out, said some horrendous things that I cannot imagine saying to my worst enemy. Hurt me very much. In his defense he called me immediately the next morning apologized for what he had said. I in return apologized, he asked a few questions, we talked. I think he realized his part in some of the emotional issues and is trying to be better. My older son has witnessed first hand our issues with him, he sat back in horror and watched much of it. For this reason I would think that he would understand some of the things that went on. Maybe I'm wrong...

This whole situation hurts me very much, I want nothing more than a relationship with my son. Honestly, the idea of being in the same room with her sends me into orbit. He is feeling very much like we have shut him out of our lives and that he is having to pay for my mistakes. He sees our side not at all. We have talked and we have texted , he very much defends her and the fact that she has done nothing wrong and how she encourages a relationship with us. I feel that is the card she is playing with him. He is not seeing the other side. He also tells me that he sees no emotion from me that I don't seem to really care if he is my son and I am hurting him. He thinks I careless about this situation and him not being a part of our life. I find it really hard to talk to him when I know he is telling her everything I say and letting her read all my texts...
You are right in the assumption that he said our relationship would be on his terms... He is not cutting her out of his life for us. All I said to that was we miss you we love you and that we did not say that HE was welcome in our life.

Thanks it feels really good to express all of this.


Expert:  Dr. Mark replied 2 years ago.
You are right about the problems of getting counseling. That is very tough.

This is such a heartbreak. It all just does not connect and that's why I am still concerned about getting some family therapy here. I mean, the depth of sheer venom released is just so unusual. Many kids have to deal with parents' "downfall" but they don't spew out like the middle kid. But you've already said he has problems. But then the older son. And then his (now) girlfriend. It's just very unusual.

You could consider Skype. I've never worked with Skype for family therapy so I don't know how technically it would be. I do therapy with people internationally with Skype and it's truly remarkable, but that's one on one: they see me and I see them.

I just read about a new Skype add on for a TV that allows the whole living room to be photographed for a video call, so that might work, but I'm not that technologically advanced to know what to recommend. But if you find someone who works with Skype and you or your son(s) are advanced enough to figure out how to get the whole family hooked up to talk with the therapist, that might be a way to start working as a family.

Until then, patience! Let things unfold.

All the best,

Dr. Mark
Dr. Mark, Psychotherapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5154
Experience: Dr. Mark is a PhD in psychology in private practice
Dr. Mark and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
In re reading my question to you I realize that the last sentence did not come out the way I intended... I told him HE is welcome in our life.
Expert:  Dr. Mark replied 2 years ago.
You know what's funny? I read it as you told him he is welcome in your life! I think I read it more from what I already know of you than what the words were.

I wish you the very best!
Dr. Mark

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Dr. Mark
Dr. Mark
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Dr. Mark is a PhD in psychology in private practice