Hi Rose! Thanks for the new thread. I'm here whenever you want to talk.
Hi Rose! The new thread is strange, I agree. I just get used to the old then we have to start the new. We talk a lot and I am glad that we do. It's good we communicate so well. I am hoping that being in touch like that helps you through all the tough times.
Cathy sounds like a good friend. Growing up with someone who is mentally ill is good, but forced, training. Her suggestion was good, but when you have the whole family acting out dysfunctionally, there is no where to turn for help or common sense. I do agree with her though that things will not get better with Dave. Unless he gains incredible insight all of a sudden, it's pretty much a done deal with him. To add to it, he may get worse somewhat as he ages since the alcohol will begin to breakdown his ability to control his emotions (he doesn't do that well now as it is) and he may lash out more often.
It's sounds like Dave skipped out on the responsibility part of your deal again. He could have stopped Sam and let him know you wanted the dog carried in, but he did the least amount he could in the situation. You mentioned your indecision about how to handle Dave going on his own to the pub, but how did you feel about what Dave did with the dog? Also, how do you feel about him being at the pub in the condition he is in?
I've seen the movie Signs. It was a little unnerving, but like you said, not too bad. I don't like M Night Shyamalan that much. The Sixth Sense was the only one I really liked. That movie gives me the serious creeps!
The pumpkin soup sounds very good. I made veggie and beef soup yesterday and threw in some sweet potato. I also made caramelized butternut squash the other day. Can you tell it's Fall?!
I hope your night goes well with all that is going on. I'll be up for a while longer if you want to talk,
Hi Rose, I have to answer another question (ughhh) and I'll be right back.
Ok, done. Sorry about that.
You certainly have your hands full today! That is a lot of running. It's good that Dave could step up and help out today. It sounds like what he always should do with you, share the duties.
It is interesting how Dave avoids dealing with your concerns by just not commenting. Avoidance doesn't solve the problem. Your concerns are valid and need addressed. This is one of those things that Dave needs to have insight on in order to change.
I imagine Dave is so popular and well liked because either he believes this about himself and doesn't accept others are not as happy with him as he is with himself, or he hangs around with people similar to him in thought and action. A emotionally healthy person is not going to put up with his focus on himself, drinking behavior and other issues.
As Dave talks about himself, what do you feel about listening to him?
As you talk about Dave and his behaviors, I often wonder about how you are feeling as all this is going on. You mentioned your attempts to get his attention about concerns and how he reacts, but nothing about how you feel. You mentioned that you "just swallowed it" when talking about the dog. This tells me that you do have feelings about what is going on but you do not allow yourself to feel them.
I hope your day works out and you get some down time. I know how all that running around can be!
Talk to you soon,
You had quite a day. I don't blame you for putting off anything tonight! Get some good rest. I'll be here tomorrow.
I am off to church and one errand and I'll be back to talk with you as soon as I can.
Thanks, XXXXX XXXXX don't like not being able to respond right away, and I want to spend time with you. I just didn't have enough time this morning.
I hope Dave has followed through with your requests today. It's good you are asking for what you need. It helps you to identify what you need and it gives you a chance to practice being assertive.
Dave's reaction to your requests and other attempts to engage him says a lot about his coping mechanisms. His is to avoid. If you don't like it or don't want to hear it, tune it out or shut it out by walking away. This tells you that he is either unable to cope with responsibility, or he doesn't want to.
On the flip side, Dave expects everyone to listen to him when he is talking. He expects attention and does not have any regard for the listeners interest or input. I could not help but wonder what kind of reaction you would get using Dave's own coping mechanisms to respond to his lectures. What would happen if you just walked away?
It is understandable that you don't want to be in touch with your feelings. I imagine they probably feel overwhelming. You take in a lot and do not have a way to express yourself. This can cause you to turn your feelings inward and become depressed and/or anxious. This is why it's important to start getting in touch with at least some of how you feel. The idea is to identify what you feel then find a way to express it somehow. For example, when you deal with Dave and his lectures, identify one feeling that you have at the time. Really think about it. Is it sad, angry, confused, disappointed, happy or irritated? Once you have at least one feeling in mind, think about how you would want to express it. So if it's irritated you feel, do you want to express it to Dave or to someone else? Do you want to say to Dave, "ok I'm done" ? Or do you just want to walk away? Or do you feel you want to say something to the other people there, such as "I don't get the point to this lecture" ? This not only serves to express your feelings but also to assert yourself.
K's suggestion is good. Are you thinking of asking for hydrotherapy? If you ask outright, they may consider it. And the worst they can say is no. But hopefully, they won't.
A support group is a very good idea. It is amazing how much help you can get from others who have the same experiences. Everyone has tried different things and just one good suggestion can change a lot for you. Let me know how everything turns out.
I will say a prayer that your appointment goes well tomorrow, Rose.
Maybe there are Fibro groups on line you could join? Try this one and see if it is a good fit:
I look forward to tomorrow! Talk to you then,
You're welcome! Talk to you tomorrow.
Hi Rose! It's afternoon where you are by now, so good afternoon!
I think that any help at this point for Sam is good. He sounds like he is having trouble controlling his anger and his ability to hold it in is getting more difficult. Is Sam being evaluated by the psychiatrist or is that who is seeing him for therapy? My only concern is that Sam is not placed on medications unless there is a valid reason, and that is mostly what psychiatrists do.
Sam's response to Dave tells a lot about the effect Dave's behavior is having. The amount of frustration and anger he inflicts with Sam must be overwhelming. Sam is probably already struggling with the conflicts and hormones typical of his age and now he has a father he cannot relate to who probably only makes him feel small and insignificant. Therapy should help him find better ways he can cope better with his feelings. It will be hard with Dave still acting out but at this point, Sam needs help.
I hope you have had some luck today with Dave following through with the chores. How did it go?
What happens with Dave if you continue to ignore him, even after he says are you listening to me? Do you feel saying "I'm busy now" would get you some space or an outburst? The idea here is to give you a chance to assert the right to your space and to also curb Dave's bullying behavior towards you and eventually the children. Yes, this will create more conflict. And that may be a scary thought. Balancing that with your safety is priority. But working on this slowly and setting up boundaries here and there will get the ball rolling and move you and the kids towards a healthier situation. Try to keep in touch with at least one feeling a day. Feel it, and follow it through. What do you want to do with your feeling? Give yourself an ideal scenario and play it out in your mind or write it down. Let's see what happens when you try it.
I think it is a good idea you have to keep Sam's appointment just to yourself and Sam at this point. Given Dave's history, he would probably do just as you described, pester Sam and find a way to demean the therapy process. This will only undermine any progress Sam can make and enrage him further.
It sounds like your appointments went well. I only wish that your treatment could start sooner to help you with the pain. But it sounds like both people you talked to today were helpful and thorough.
I was laughing out loud when I read about you making as much noise as possible with the recycling! I understand how you feel. The frustration of Dave's self centered behavior has to be so high for you. His refusal to help and to listen is amazing.
I feel for Sam. How awful. Your advice to him was spot on, to borrow your phrase. He needed to hear that this X-Box situation is a life lesson. Things like this will happen over and over. Learning to deal with this now with you there to help him will teach Sam how to handle it himself next time he is frustrated like this about something. I am glad you were there for him.
Thanks for explaining Sam's counseling. It all sounds very normal and routine. I think they will be able to help him. Just the process of getting evaluated will help Sam put into words some of the feelings he has had to cope with over the past year or so. Having someone listen also makes a big difference. I think Sam will be fine. He has you and that changes everything for him, and Poppy.
I don't know how much work you have done with K about getting in touch with your feelings. I know you and I have done some. But I think going back to basics is the best approach. When you feel muddled, it is helpful to go back and think through the basic feelings and see which one fits. You may need to do this for a while until you can get back in touch with how you feel. I found a feeling chart that may help you. I use them a lot to help people pinpoint feelings. Let me know if the link doesn't come through:
I know, odd link address! But it is the only copy I could find of the one I use. If it doesn't work for you, we could find another. Whatever you prefer.
Is your feeling from today on there?
Ok, you did it again. I was picturing you laughing about my laughing while you were cleaning your teeth! This is good stress relief
It's good Sam is doing ok. You really stood by him on this, helped him through and said all the right things. Between you helping him and the therapy he will get, Sam will do very well!
Oh dear, no worry face on our prison chart? That made me worry a bit! Maybe we need another chart to accompany this one. What do you think?
Using "I feel" as you express yourself is a good way to help you get in touch with your feelings. I think you do know what you feel, you just push the feelings away in order to cope with situations with Dave or when you feel overwhelmed by circumstances. It is especially in the area of feeling anger or any assertive feelings that you push them away in order to cope. This is not a bad thing, it is about survival. It is how you learned to protect yourself. But knowing what you feel by identifying it then thinking through how you want to express it will help bring those feelings to the front so you can begin to use them to cope instead of falling back on your coping techniques from your past. You have allowed Dave to cross boundaries in order to survive. But identifying your feelings about your marriage will help you break through the coping mechanisms and into behavior that helps you get your needs met.
Let me know what happens with the 3 lost questions. I wonder what happened to them?
Have a good night Rose. Sleep well,
I hope your Skype went well. It sounds like you had quite a busy day!
Was you know who doing the usual? I'm interested to know!
I agree, that is very weird about your lost questions. But I never could really understand how to find things lost on the computer.
I hope you are getting some good rest right now. I'll talk with you tomorrow.
That is good news, Rose! I am glad they found your questions. And thank you for thinking of me. You are always so kind.
I'm glad Sam had a chance to talk to K. It sounds like everything is going well with your one day a week with K.
So you were feeling annoyed, exasperated, irritated, and possibly disbelieving about Dave's behavior. That is a good start. You mentioned that you did not tell Dave but I imagine you wanted to. That at least gives you a direction you want to put your feelings. I think the disbelieving part is very valid. It is incredible that each time you need help Dave thinks of himself. Dave's behavior is out of sync with the household and with your needs. It is hard to believe he doesn't see your needs. He asked how you felt then he did not connect your exhaustion and pain with helping you. That disconnect is part of what makes your relationship not work.
Tell me more about what you are worried about with your meeting. Let's talk about worst case scenario. What do you feel would be the worst thing to happen?
Also, how does this make you feel? You mentioned guilty and worried. What else? I think there are some triggers here for you about the past.
A good night's sleep should help. I'll talk with you tomorrow,
HAPPY THANKSGIVING DAY
I'm happy picturing you and your family at home (well, once you're up!) kids excited it's a holiday, mum in the kitchen (sorry!), big turkey, pumpkin pie... What's for pudding??
You've got a busy day today, so I'm not posting, just thinking of you. So have a great family holiday, I'll catch you later with a word or two.
Good morning Rose!
You have such a kind heart. Thank you! It is Thanksgiving here and the anticipation of stuffing ourselves silly (and visiting too of course!) is all finally here. The kids are very happy to be off school till next week and to see their cousins who live out of state and are visiting. I, thankfully, am not cooking this year. We are visiting my brother who is home for the first time in 20 years, after retiring from the Navy. I hope he is ready for us!
The turkey is huge and there are many fixings to go with it. I must confess, I am not sure what pudding is. Here in the US it is a soft creamy dessert made mostly of milk and sugar and has a custard type consistency. Jello makes the most common brand. We don't eat puddings for Thanksgiving usually. It's pumpkin pie, pecan pie, and various cakes and other goodies. I made an Eggnog Spice Cake this year along with the usual pies, a new one for me.
I will be around for most of the morning (afternoon for you) so if you would like to talk, that is fine with me. I never mind spending time with you, Rose.
Thank you again for the card and I'll talk with you soon,Kate
That's ok Rose. It's fun sharing our differences! You have taught me so much and inspired some new and interesting foods in our home. Thanks for the explanation of your pudding. I'll have to try it.
My mother and my husband's mother will be there for dinner. My sister is another story. She worked a shift last night so she may be catching up on her sleep first then joining us later.
I appreciate your efforts to pay me a bonus. I think there have been some bugs this week in JA. I have had some trouble myself. I have not received anything yet so I'm not sure who they paid, but it wasn't me! Please don't trouble yourself any more with it. I appreciate the thought though.
Sounds like you have a busy day planned. I hope all goes smoothly and you can find some time for rest!
I'll talk to you later,
It was a nice day, thank you for asking! We are all completely stuffed with all the turkey and fixings we could eat. Whew! I was thinking of you as well throughout the day, hoping your day was going well too.
I am sorry you feel lonely. Do you feel it is because of our Thanksgiving talk? Maybe it triggered your feelings about your family. What do you think?
You are probably getting ready for sleep if not in bed already. I'll be here tomorrow when you feel ready to talk.
Have a good night,
Your welcome Rose. You are never far from my thoughts.
My sister did end up making it yesterday. She does private duty, working with anyone from a boy who has cerebral palsy to older patients near death. She also works in a mental retardation facility passing out medications. She works a lot of overnight and weekend shifts but usually has Thursdays off so she was able to be there yesterday. I was happy to spend time with her. We don't see each other that often.
I am sorry you are feeling down. I know it is painful. But I also think this is a very good thing you are going through, even though it feels awful. What you are feeling is your true and deepest feelings about your life right now and the effects your marriage has had on you and your kids. You are sad because that is a healthy response to what you have been through.
Sam is also responding in a healthy way. He is angry at Dave because Dave's behavior is self centered and hurtful. Dave is supposed to be there, with the family, caring, listening and participating. But instead he is off thinking of himself and doing what he wants to do. Sam took special care to fix a meal and Dave should be there, sharing with all of you. Sam knows what healthy behavior is for Dave and understands that Dave is not acting in a healthy way. Hence the anger. He is hurt and disappointed because Dave is acting in a dysfunctional way and the anger covers his hurt. Sam probably finds the anger a more acceptable way to express his hurt. That is why his therapy is so important. It will help him get in touch with the hurt underneath his anger so he doesn't become permanently angry or inappropriately angry in life.
Wanting out of your life is also very normal to feel. Of course you want out, Dave makes your life very hard with his behavior and your are miserable trying to cope with it. The stress alone of coping with someone who acts like he does takes a toll. You feel down, tired and overwhelmed. Remember your getaway and how happy you felt being away? That is how you would feel without the stress of your marriage.
I have wondered if most of your physical problems could be attributed to the stress you suffer in your marriage. Taking your feelings and stuffing them away has numerous effects, not all psychological. It can affect you physically too. You may not even realize how much since the stress has been over time so was gradually built up.
Your thoughts of your brother is your mind trying to tell you something. I think you are right, he was at least part of the reason you have insecurities. Your brother got his behavior from your parents and developed his own distorted view of the world because of it. Then he treated you as he was taught. Your parents did not value you as a person and used you to deal with their dysfunction and your brother witnessed this and has done the same thing. He learned it was acceptable behavior. And you learned to cope with being treated that way because your parents taught you that it was acceptable. Healthy behavior would be to treat you with respect, love and kindness. Equality as well. You are equal in worth and value to your brother. But he treats you much like Dave treats you. As if you do not deserve anything. It is a common theme in your life. But working through this and accepting that you are worthy and deserve better will change the situation and how you feel. By focusing on what is normal behavior, you can change the status quo with how you are treated. When you no longer accept such behavior, then people like Dave and your brother are minimized and their behavior no longer affects you as it does now.
This is good progress, Rose. I'd like to keep exploring this and see where it takes you. What do you think?
I hope your aunt's went well today and it turned out better than last time.
It is completely fine that you send as many posts as you want to today, Rose. I want to be here for you.
You are in touch with your feelings and as painful as it is, this is very healthy. Your feelings about having Poppy with you are about deeper feelings you have about Dave and your situation and even beyond that. Someone once said that jealousy is feeling alone against smiling enemies. But your feelings are deeper than that. Shame and insecurity are being covered by the jealousy you feel. You want Poppy with you because you most likely feel Dave is not worthy of her attention. You may feel you are the better parent, you make the effort that counts and Dave doesn't do that. He hurts and is self centered. But he gets Poppy to himself even though acts out so horribly. The injustice of the situation makes you feel jealous. But it also brings up your feelings of insecurity and your worth.
Also, Poppy and Sam may help you to not feel the loneliness and pain of your situation. They fill gaps in your life that Dave does not. Seeing them go with Dave or agree with him may bring up feeling angry and insecure. It may also parallel your feelings about your brother. Was he treated better than you as a child?
It sounds like you are also feeling angry about Dave's lack of responsibility when it comes to supporting the family. It is on your shoulders and that is a huge burden. He could support the family. There is no reason he wouldn't except his emotional problems get in the way. He also makes a good part of the work he does do your responsibility. He imposes on you. This also connects to the shame and sense of unworthiness you feel about yourself as a result of how your parents treated you. Being treated like a slave is a message to you that you are not valued. But along with that, it is Dave doing it, someone you do not respect and have very strong feelings about. What do you feel about this?
You would have been very welcome to Thanksgiving with me. Thank you for telling me about how you feel. I would have enjoyed your company and we would have had a great time. I am sure K would feel the same. We both accept you for who you are, which may be why you feel as you do. You desire to be where you feel you are welcomed. Part of it is also feeling you are not ok where you are. You are surrounded by people who reinforce what you were taught as a child. You also believe this about yourself. K and I however don't treat you that way. We both believe (and I am speaking for her here, I know, but with what you have told me about her I think it is true) that you are a worthy person. It probably feels good to you because that need was unmet for you as a child. You craved your mother's and father's approval and love. So when you do get it now, you want more. You want to be surrounded by that feeling. It is a strong urge for you to have that feeling. But your childhood message was that you are unworthy to be loved so you developed a fear and you shy away from the chance to feel that love. It has become incompatible to your internal message that you are unlovable. That is why you accept the treatment Dave and your brother give you. It is more in tune with what you were taught you are worth.
Let your tears come today. Crying is good and helps you express your feelings. It's a cleansing cry and it is helping you stay in touch with your feelings.
No Black Friday for me. Ugh. Too much greed and crazy behavior! But I am looking forward to buying my Christmas crackers. I told everyone here about them and they thought they sounded great, especially the kids!
I'm thinking of you,
You are welcome, Rose. I am glad it helped. You are going through a difficult time and I am happy to be here for you.
Another getaway would be wonderful! It exposes you to what you feel like without the stress of Dave and work. After Christmas would probably be better since it would give you something to look forward to. If it's before Christmas you may just be worried about getting home and getting things done. Those good feelings you have without Dave around are probably very much like the peace you felt on vacation. They are just peeks at what life would be like without the stress you suffer through.
With all the years you held in your feelings, they had to go somewhere. The only place they could go was in your body. When you think that minor stress can cause muscle tension, aches and pains, think of what major stress could do to your body. I think that without the stress of your marriage and Dave's behavior, you would feel like a new woman!
As it is, the stress in your life, years of it, has caused you to always be on edge. Your body has been exposed to extreme fight or flight stress for years now and it takes it's toll. You can only stay on alert for so long before things start to break down. Research has shown that your immune system is affected as well as blood pressure, autoimmune system and even digestion. Also, the longer you have the stress, the more likelihood that you develop anxiety and depression, which you have already experienced.
The best option to deal with the stress is to get away from it. But in your case, that is too hard right now. You need to work towards it. But you can start to find pockets of stress free time while you work up towards getting free altogether. We already talked about relaxation techniques some and your getaways are both great ways to create the stress free time you need. Also, finding more and more ways to gain control over your life helps as well. The more you defy Dave, set your own rules and find ways to get what you need, the more you feel in control and therefore less stressed.
Poppy was really sweet to you. You are very connected with your children emotionally and it's nice to see.
I hope all is calm with Dave home and you get some space to relax. If I don't get a chance to talk with you again tonight, have a good night and I'll talk with you tomorrow.
Rose, you're welcome! Your insight is so good you make it easy to talk with you.
It sounds like you are feeling that Dave is irresponsible in his interactions with the kids as he is with everything else. By telling Poppy all about his exploits when he was young, he exposes her to accepting dysfunctional behavior. Although most parents will admit to their children that they did things when they were younger, they usually add that they are not proud of what they did which tells the children that their parents made a mistake. Dave does not sound like he did that, which makes what he did harmful to Poppy and Sam, if he heard it. It makes his behavior acceptable, which it wasn't. It was irresponsible.
What you said about your brother makes a lot of sense. Your brother was basically trained from an early age by your parents to be the way he is today. He also learned his lessons well and took in your parents dysfunctional way of childrearing. He was taught he could do no wrong and that he was superior to you. He was allowed to bully you and get away with it, giving his behavior a stamp of approval from your parents. So both you and your brother (and probably your sisters) were treated as puppets in the Mom and Dad theater. I am sorry that happened to you. I can only imagine the pain you suffered as a result of your parents problems, wishing only that you were cared for and loved, not used to vent abusive behavior.
It sounds like Sam is on the money with Poppy being preferred by Dave. Dave prefers her because she accepts him, which is a self centered reason. If Poppy acted like Sam did towards Dave, he would reject her as well. So it's not about who Poppy is (sadly) as much as how Dave is happy that his views are accepted. Sam expresses his jealousy (hurt and pain) by claiming Poppy is protected by you as well. He sees the situation as global rather than as it is because he is badly hurt and his pain gets in the way of his logic.
You are so on about the situation with Dave and his irresponsibility that you don't even need me! It is very true that Dave depends on you to enable him so he can be irresponsible. I understand Sam's concern that Dave could not live without you, but he could, and most probably would just find someone else to support him. That feeling, that you would be abandoning Dave to the wolves, is part of the abuse cycle. It keeps you tethered to him through guilt (what if he couldn't survive on his own, it would be my fault). Plus, he would play the guilt card for all it is worth because he doesn't want to have to be responsible. Dave would do just fine on his own. His ego and self importance would not let him fail. It may also help him to finally take responsibility. Dave has found in you someone who is willing to put themselves aside for the betterment of others. He has exploited this so he can carry on without responsibility. His treatment of you is also very similar to what you were used to with your parents and your brother. It's a pattern that repeats. Right now you are breaking through that pattern with your insights and desire to move ahead with a better life.
You are loved, Rose. And you are cared about. That is not going anywhere. Your kids care for you, I care for you, and I think K does too. Others in your life care as well. At this point, you are exposed to people who make their love conditional on how you act and what you do for them. That is about your old life though. You no longer have to behave in a certain way to be lovable. You can be yourself Rose and be loved no matter what. Unconditional love has no cost. And once you have more of it in your life, you will grow. Weeding out the people who only offer you conditional love and letting in those who love you unconditionally will feed your craving and help you realize that you are a valued person, worthy of love.
I love your idea of pushing the envelope with Dave and his job. You already have enough to do without having to do part of Dave's work as well. It is amazing that he expects you to do these things and doesn't give it a second thought.
It seems you have been lost in thought a lot. I am glad you did not have a run in with the car! But it sounds like you are working on something. What are you thinking about?
I can understand your indecision with Sam. This is about what you were taught as a child with always pleasing others and making sure they are happy. You depend on others' happiness to make you feel valued. So when they are unhappy, it makes you feel there is something wrong with you. Guilt and shame keep you from feeling ok when others needs are not met. You make yourself responsible for their happiness so you can feel worthy. You are conditioned by your parents to think of others first and put yourself last because you are not valued otherwise. But your worth is not about anyone else's happiness. It is what you think of yourself that matters.
Having a better sense of your worth without having to please others is what will help you stop needing to make everyone else happy so you can be happy. That doesn't mean you will not like to help and serve others. But there is a difference between having to serve others and wanting to serve others. Right now you have to in order to have peace of mind. This takes a large toll on you emotionally. You lose your sense of self worth, your boundaries with others and eventually burn out with trying to please others.
Sam was doing what a typical teen/young adult does. He sees and therefore wants. Our kids know our buttons so they use them to push. The trick is remembering that you are the adult, so saying no and offering no explanation is your right. Sam will get over it. You are not denying him food. You are saying no to something you do not have the money for. Big difference.
Let go of your guilt and the shame. You are a good person if you say yes, no or maybe. It doesn't matter because you are worthy as a person. Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. If you need to, write that down or repeat it to yourself as you need to. It will help you begin to accept it.
I also wanted to recommend two books to you. I know you have just so much time on your hands to read , but they may help you learn more about why you need to please others.
Anxious to Please: 7 Revolutionary Practices for the Chronically Nice by James Rapson and Craig English
The Disease To Please: Curing the People-Pleasing Syndrome by Harriet B. Braiker
I hope you were able to get Sam fed and off to work ok. I should be around the rest of the evening if you need to talk.
There is no need to explain more than your manager already knows about your situation. You are not obligated to explain yourself more than is necessary. You do not owe her or anyone else anything beyond what you have done already.
You may have been hired on the premise that you work the contract, but things happen. People's lives to not always follow a straight line that lets them meet all obligations. The only thing you need to explain is that you are too ill to work the job well and you do not want to burden them with a worker who cannot work the job. Your doctor bringing up these issues does not obligate you to explain them. An employer only needs to know why you can't do the job itself, not a full explanation of your issues.
Writing out your thoughts in letter form before you meet with her may be a good idea. It would help you organize your thoughts and check out your answer with others. You can practice what you want to say as well.
You are not inadequate or a fraud. These are your feelings about not being worthy unless someone assigns you worth. Your employer is not in charge of your worth. She can say anything she wants about you as an employee, and you may feel bad about it, but it does not change the fact that you are a good person. You are giving her a power she does not have unless you let her. You did the best job you could in some pretty difficult circumstances. You can no longer do the job. End of story. She does not need to know that you and Dave are having problems or that you feel too anxious to complete the job. Your fibromyalgia is enough to prevent you from working. The doctor approves. Whatever else your doctor mentioned does not matter. You do not have to follow what your doctor does. You are your own unique person. Your doctor does not know better and your employer does not know better. Only you know your own situation and what you can do and what you can't. That is part of your value as a person. Your right to live your life as you see fit, and having your needs met by not working the job.
I hope Dave makes it back for you in time tonight. It sounds like he is acting as he always acts.
Goodnight Rose. Sleep well.
Good night Rose! I am glad you didn't have to go out either. Yay!
Let me know if you find the book helpful.
Dave's sister and her husband sound lovely. It sounds like she is kind and accepting of you. If you cannot visit her after Christmas, that is ok. She seems like a person who would understand.
Your anger with Dave is certainly justified. He reminds me of a teenager who wants to do grown up things but without all the responsibility that goes with it. He uses you to do the things he wants to do as if you are the parent and he is not. Just with the car situation alone, he doesn't ask what he can do to help, he just assumes you will work it out. How do you handle the stress from this situation?
It's good you were able to say something to him. Even if he doesn't respond how you need him to, you have had a chance to vent instead of repressing how you feel and suffering the consequences. And if you do leave him in the future, he won't be as surprised as to why.
I would like to know how everything works out tomorrow with Poppy and your appointment. That is quite a lot of juggling you have to deal with.
If Dave asks you about the massage when the kids are out, do you feel obligated to say yes? If so, why?
When someone who is outside your immediate family or close friends wants to know something personal, you are under no obligation to provide it (even with family you are not obligated). Some people will sense you are willing to tell the information if they try to get it out of you. But that does not mean you have to tell them. As long as your manager knows the basics that she needs to know, you are covered. Knowing that you have right to keep your personal information to yourself helps. This interview is good practice for you. It can help you learn that you do not have to please everyone all the time. And it is impossible to please everyone all the time anyway. No matter how nice and how giving you are, there is always going to be people who are not happy with you. Accepting that this is ok and you can live with it boosts your self esteem and makes it easier for you to assert yourself.
Having a practice session with K sounds like a great idea. It's not your favorite thing, I know, but trying out your interview with someone you can trust who is there to help you can give you the confidence you need to face the real interview. Remember, K is in your corner. No matter how it goes, she cares about you. Keep that feeling with you. I care as well.
It's rainy here today. It is one of those sleepy, wet days that make you want to crawl under the covers and not get up till morning. It's sounds very cold there. Does it usually get so cold by December?
I hope your day goes well. I'll be thinking of you,
Rose, I know you feel responsible for Poppy. You are a mom and a good one at that, and it is natural to worry about your kids. But whatever happens tomorrow is on Dave, not you. You did not cause this problem, he did. It is ok to tell Poppy that you are sorry Dave is acting this way and making you both go through such inconvenience. If you do it without hostility, Poppy will probably not feel the need to be defensive. But it is clear that this is about Dave and it is not bad to put the blame where it belongs.
Have a good night, Rose!
It sounds like the horse back riding was fun, at least in a gritted teeth way. Sorry to hear that you are in so much pain. It is so good of you to make the effort for Poppy and help her build her confidence. Even through pain you are there for her. You are a good mom.
Good for you for what you said to Dave about his lack of responsibility. He has dropped the ball too many times and dumped the parenting and responsibility on you. It is unfortunately clear that he has no interest in helping you by sharing the responsibilities. And it is too bad Poppy needs to see her father avoid helping her out. Dave should understand the affect on Poppy of seeing a husband and father act in such a way.
How did you feel telling Dave that he is being irresponsible?
I am glad the kids share Christmas service with you. It is something I think they will remember and maybe do with their own children because you showed them how important family is at Christmas.
It's good you got started with your physio sessions. It is hard the first few times I am sure. It sounds like it will help you with flexibility and maybe ease your pain some. I hope so.
Morris dancing looks like fun.....hmmm. It is interesting that Dave gets to rely on you to do things for him- help him with his business, sewing, etc- but he gets to refuse to help you. What happens if you refuse or tell him you are too busy? This is not so much a revenge thing but more of a responsibility issue. Pointing out that your marriage is not a one way street anymore.
My kids go back to school tomorrow. It is kind of odd since most schools around us went back today. But I did squeeze in a doctors appointment for N. I was glad to not need a doctor's excuse for school for that one!
Have a good night, Rose,
I am so sorry that happened to Sam. How very uncaring to leave him out waiting for his appointment. He must have felt relief and disappointment though when he left. It is hard to be that anxious and wait so long.
It was so nice that you supported him the way you did. It sounds like he appreciated it too. I know that this appointment was very important for you. You waited so long for Sam to get help, the day gets here, then this happens. It is a huge let down.
Even if he did not see someone, the process is important. You got him an appointment and he went. It is always a good sign when someone is willing to reach out and get help. It is a sign of strength and good mental health. Even though he had a bad first experience, encourage him by telling him that this sometimes occurs. I've known people I've seen that told me of such experiences and I've even had it happen to people in my family. Maybe Sam can try again with someone else next time so he gains some hope the next person will be more thoughtful.
You know it's enough when you feel it is. You will know when the moment occurs. Your increasing level of self esteem will meet with your lowering tolerance of Dave's abuse and you will say, I'm done with this. You are getting there, I can see it. You have started telling Dave of your unhappiness with his behavior, becoming bolder each time. You are also talking with the kids about the family situation. And you are working with me and K to build your esteem and talk about your situation. Your goal has always been to change your circumstances. That has not changed as long as I have known you. And I believe when you are ready, you will know it.
I do believe Rose that you will know when the time is right to go. Just now you mentioned noticing all the things Dave is not doing that he should be doing to help you and the kids. I think you noticed in the past, but you did not feel anger or get upset about it. You were much more accepting, choosing to push the feelings down and get on with it. But now, you not only notice, but you say something out loud about it to the kids and to Dave. You are also getting in touch with your feelings more and more. This is helping you gain self esteem and bringing you to the point where you realize you do not deserve this type of treatment, not only from Dave, but from anyone.
I think it's also good that you are noticing that Dave does for others when he does not do for you or the kids. He prioritizes things according to his own selfish needs. I could not believe when you said he did not get out of bed to help you with the kids this morning. You should not be out there alone chasing buses and trying to get Poppy to her lessons. Having to rely on a neighbor when Dave is busy sleeping is unbelievable.
I am hoping Sam can get another appointment soon. How long do you think it will take?
I understand not wanting to talk to K. Talking face to face is a strain, I know. I think one step at a time, thinking through your feelings and taking your time will help. I am thinking of you. I hope it goes well and you gain much from it.
I'll talk with you soon,
Wow, three hours! That is one long session. I do believe your mind works on all that information while you sleep. Dreams are about feelings left over from the day.
It's a good you stand your ground with Dave on the issue of making his lunch. It is a good start to work on the other issues as well.
Rest well, Rose. I will talk with you tomorrow.
I heard about the strikes and the pension situation on the radio this morning. It has to be difficult to balance what budget needs there are and worker's rights. The retirement age in the U.S. has been slowly rising over the years too. I think it's close to 70 now.
Sam sounds like he might be looking for some control in his life. His refusal to do as you asked could be his need for control over his life but also a need to be near you as long as possible. He may be a young adult, but he still has those yearnings. Not that you were wrong trying to get him out of the car and on his way. He also needs to develop empathy for you and your needs. Letting him get away with acting like he did once in a while is ok. He is old enough to know it can't be a habit. Catching the bus on time needs to start being a priority for him from now on. That would eliminate the conflict all together.
Sam may be scared of counseling. That could be why he is starting to show signs of refusing to go. He was rejected yesterday when he tried to get help. He was at a very vulnerable point in seeking treatment and the therapist did not live up to their responsibility in helping him with that by being on time and encouraging him. That could be the root of his resistance. Who wants to risk being rejected again? His anger may be a way of trying to cover the feelings of vulnerability and fear. Dave reinforces these feelings by his overbearing behavior. Sam is trying to find his way as a man and Dave's behavior probably makes him feel small and insignificant, not what a young man wants to feel. Having your marriage end appeals to Sam because of those feelings.
What do you think?
It sounds like you sorted out what is going on with Sam. It seems he may have some anger issues and control issues that interfere with being on time. Sam has control over his own behavior and being late is a choice. But because he may have some OCD traits that interfere and he is pressuring himself to complete tasks in the morning he does not have time for. It may be that even when he is on time he drags out his morning routine so he can miss the bus. It may help him relieve pressure by missing the bus or it could be about control. But either way, this problem is solvable with therapy, given that Sam is still ok with going.
I wonder if Sam is picking up some of Dave's behaviors with how he relates to you. Does that seem possible to you? It would not be unusual in any way since that is what he knows and grew up with.
I think it's a great idea that you write things down for tomorrow. There is nothing wrong with having a guide with you in the meeting, especially if you feel flustered and upset. Many people take notes with them. You can put it in a binder of some sort so you feel it's organized. I can imagine that the people or person who you will be seeing will have their own notes as well.
Tonight may have been different and threw you off a little, but it can be good as well to have change. It helps you focus better and brings you out a little. Being introverted as you are, it is easy to go into yourself and think a lot. Having a guest in your home forces you out a little and can ultimately help you be a little more extroverted tomorrow.
I will be thinking of you. Please let me know how it goes. Deep breaths, focused and calm. You can do this!
Good night, Rose,
You're welcome! You are in my thoughts.
Sounds like you have had an adventure already this morning! Nothing like chasing a bus to get your adrenaline going and to wake you up in the morning.
I would guess that your either done with your meeting now or just getting through it. I hope it went well. Let me know when you get a chance.
Yes, I'm here. I'm writing back now.
Wow, Rose, that is good news! It sounds like Jo is very accommodating and very thoughtful. I am so glad it went well for you.
I agree, your contract could have been cut because of your illness and the budget both, but if other nurses are not being renewed as well, then it is probably mostly due to the budget. The economy is horrid and there are lay offs everywhere. They may have needed to make a cut and just found your situation easier to justify because you are ill right now.
It is kind of her to praise you so much. You are a good nurse and a good person, but I wonder if you can take that in. I'm not sure you heard her enough to believe what she said. It is very true. You care a lot about people, you have great empathy and you are serious about your job. Those are all great qualities for a nurse.
I am also concerned that you feel guilty about not pushing yourself through to the end. What purpose would that serve? You would have been in great pain, not been able to get treatment and rest like you can now, and just ended up being less effective. It seems that this may have more to do with feeling the need to please and not be trouble to someone, to not have needs yourself, than actually needing to be there as a nurse. But it doesn't sound like they are upset about you caring for yourself. Matter or fact, they are asking for you to come back. So you left a good impression. Feeling guilty is not needed.
I am glad to hear Sam can get another appointment for tomorrow! I hope he will go. This is a good chance for him to get the process started and get on the road to helping himself feel better.
Exactly Rose. It is about putting yourself in that little expectation box and forcing yourself to follow rules made a long time ago for you by your parents. Rose is not good enough unless she pleases everyone around her. It is a very wrong message but one you heard so much that it became part of you.
It is very good you did take the time for yourself. It shows you that the world doesn't fall apart nor do people get angry and upset with you if you do not do whatever they want you to. Jo was kind to you instead, which sends the message that taking care of yourself is ok. And pleasing others is not necessary. They can take care of themselves.
Toad....hmmmm. I have to ask. What are you making?
OK, 'Toad-in-the-hole'.... why on earth is it named that, I must just google for a min....Ok, no real explanation; so, it is a traditional English dish that is sausages baked with Yorkshire Pudding batter mix surrounding it. The toad ref is simply that the ends of the sausages poking out from the batter looks like a toad sticking his head out of a damp hole looking for insects to pounce on!! The batter is a mix of flous, eggs and milk. But you probably already know this. Give it a whirl, sooo easy, can't think why I've never done it before, but be sure to have lashings of onion gravy. Yum.
Only thing that spoilt it was D back from the pub, full pelt shouting at me and spitting broccoli in my face!!!!!!!! I'll say no more. :(
OK, 'Toad-in-the-hole'.... why on earth is it named that, I must just google for a min....Ok, no real explanation; so, it is a traditional English dish that is sausages baked with Yorkshire Pudding batter mix surrounding it. The toad ref is simply that the ends of the sausages poking out from the batter looks like a toad sticking his head out of a damp hole looking for insects to pounce on!! The batter is a mix of flour, eggs and milk. But you probably already know this. Give it a whirl, sooo easy, can't think why I've never done it before, but be sure to have lashings of onion gravy. Yum.
I noticed that JA is sending three copies of your post to me too. Strange. They have been having glitches a lot lately it seems.
Struggling to get out of the box is ok. It is actually good! It will get easier with time. That is why I was so glad you made the effort today with Jo and that she was so nice to you. It gave you a chance to see that getting your needs met does not end like your parents taught you- with you being considered bad and unworthy.
Thank you for explaining Toad in the hole and providing a picture. I've never heard of it but it sounds good. I'll have to try it. I have two sausage fans here so they would definitely take to it!
Broccoli in your face- I hope that isn't what I am thinking it is. That would not be good. Let me know what happened when you get a chance.
I am glad you are ok.
Yes, I will look for your new thread. I'll be here a bit longer.