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Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5556
Experience:  Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
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Im having a hard time. In the past couple of weeks, two mental

Customer Question

I'm having a hard time. In the past couple of weeks, two mental health professionals have helped me understand the nature of my girlfriend. I'm married, she is married. She is in a verbally abusive marriage, yet her husband just bought a house and they moved into it in the past few days. She also has a new used car from him.
I am married, without sex for the past two and a half years other wise the marriage is alright. She is 46 and I'm 62.
My girlfriend and I have been together for the past four months. The first two months were wonderful. She was loving, attentive, called me all the time, texted me, and much more. We met all the time and enjoyed each other. She seemed caring and considerate, though I believe that she was not always truthful with me, but that's another story.

During the last two months, she changed. She was considerably less loving. We haven't had sex in two months, the texting became more difficult as she didn't do it as easily and the phone conversations were initiated by me much of the time. We haven't spoken in the past three days as she wrote me a text message one night to me and said, "I left my phone in the bathroom and my daughter (12) saw your messages. Back off. I'm with my family". I had met her that same afternoon and bought her lunch. Everything seemed fine, but a bit strained. A night or two earlier, she had sent me a text that made no sense asking if I had purchased a good wine. I found out that the text was meant for her former boyfriend from the year before. She said that they talk now and then and that she will text him and he will do likewise. She said that he is a mess psychologically and that he just needs someone to talk to. I got furious about it and told her to tell him to go get help from some other woman. I felt that she was my girlfriend and I didn't want a former boyfriend infringing on my time with her. She said that she would, but I don't think that she did.

As it is now, I haven't heard from her. She did tell me that she would be busy for a few day moving, but that should have meant the same night that she was in contact with her ex and the same night that she told me to "back off".

Frankly, I have been writing text messages to her and asking her why she has had no time to text me for a minute or two to say hello or to call for five minutes out her busy schedule. I didn't think I was asking too much. Finally, because I have noticed that she has changed in the past two months vs the first two months, I told her that if she does not call me by 7:30 PM on Friday, I am finished with the relationship. She is not to call me after that or text or email or anything.

You see, my emotions have been on a roller coaster ride for the past several months with her. She has been on and off, on and off with how she says she feels about me.

My problem is forgetting her if it comes to that. I don't know why I feel so tied to her. This has never happened like this before in my life. What can I do to forget her more rapidly if she breaks up with me? Almost forgot that she broke up with me twice in the past two to three weeks and we didn't talk at all. Then suddenly she got in touch with me by text and I fell right into it again. The last time, I almost had forgotten about her.

So any suggestions for my mental health?

Thanks
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Mental Health
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 3 years ago.

Hi, I'd like to help you with your question.

 

It sounds like your girlfriend has moved on from your relationship. She is showing signs of either just wanting to be with her family or starting another relationship. Her continual dissatisfaction with her marriage and herself probably causes her to chronically cheat.

 

Although you might not be able to forget her faster if she ends the relationship, you can start to move on right now. Even if she contacts you by today, her interest in your relationship is no longer there. Therefore, taking control now and moving on will help you feel less like you are waiting for her to make a decision.

 

Allow yourself time to mourn over the loss of the relationship. If you want, start thinking of the relationship as over. Start working on your recovery. Read about relationship endings and how you can feel better. Here are some resources to help you:

 

http://helpguide.org/mental/coping_divorce_relationship_breakup.htm

 

Getting Past Your Breakup: How to Turn a Devastating Loss into the Best Thing That Ever Happened to You by Susan J. Elliott

 

How to Heal a Broken Heart in 30 Days: A Day-by-Day Guide to Saying Good-bye and Getting On With Your Life by Howard Bronson and Mike Riley

 

You can find these books on Amazon.com or your local library may have them for you.

 

I hope this has helped,

Kate

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Kate, just another thought/question.

If she seems uninterested in our relationship, whether it's for another man or for her family, would she still get in touch with me?

In the past two to three weeks she broke up with me and then a few days later would came back with a text message and apologized and wanted to resume where we left off, but we never got past first base after each time. It's strange. Why does she do that? Why has she texted me or even called me after she broke up with me, to resume the relation again? I am afraid she might do the same, like a week from now she may text again. How do I get through that? I'm like putty when she does it.

It's so frustrating that I'm able to be manipulated, when it's never really happened to me like that in the past. Thanks so much for you help.
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 3 years ago.

She may very well get in touch. But the idea here is for you to gain control rather than wait for her. She is heading out of the relationship, it is just a matter of when.

 

She probably comes back because she does like you. But also because she wants to keep her options open. She has all the control here so she can do what she wants.

 

By ending this now, you can have a better chance to get through this and be in control of your own recovery. Take one step at a time, even if it is one minute at a time. If you have contact from her, talk to someone who supports you before you do anything. That may give you the strength to resist responding.

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5556
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Kate, I am hoping this is attached to the last letters that I wrote to you so you understand what I'm talking about.

My ex girlfriend has not been in touch with me since last Tuesday. I'm actually happy about it. I think about her now and then, but less then I did. As time goes on, what are the chances that she will reach out to me again and attempt to mend fences. It's my belief that she is with someone new now. I would think that the only way that she will reach out to me is if she becomes dissatisfied with her present boyfriend and, perhaps, begins to relish the things that I did for her and what I meant to her as a decent guy who treated her well. What do you think?

Thanks
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 3 years ago.

Hello,

 

There is a good chance she would contact you again if she becomes unhappy in her current relationship. That is often the case with someone who cheats frequently. The reason they need to be with someone all of the time is because they experience fear and low self esteem when they are alone. They are also self centered in personality so their needs supersede anyone else's feelings.

 

So your ex may contact you to see if you are interested in being with her again. But you may not want to be available to her. The chance that she would use you until she found someone else again is very high. You may end up getting hurt all over again. It is a risk and one you will need to weight carefully if she does call you again.

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5556
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Thanks Kate....I appreciate what you just said. It confirms what I'm thinking too and I do not want to be with her and to be used again. I was curious as to her motivation and what she might do.

She is, without a doubt, someone with low self esteem and who uses people. She is so self centered that it's very clear. It certainly was to me last week.

Thanks again.
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 3 years ago.

You're welcome! I am glad I could help.

 

Kate

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Hi Kate,

I'm back again. Well, I fell into it again with the ex girlfriend. She texted me about a week and a half ago and I fell into her little web, hook line and sinker. I made love to her last week and she professed love and a future with me. Then the next day she said that her husband gave her back a wedding ring he hid from her for the last six years that she had taken off her finger. She said the he said that he wanted to remarry her. I suddenly became on the back burner again and she wanted a three day weekend to think it over. Now we are nearly split again and I'm sick over this crap. I hope you have the old questions that I asked you. How do I get over this? I am really having a hard time. Every time I tell her I will be finished with her, she texts me again. This is like a ride in the circus that one can never get off. What is going on with her? I know what you told me earlier, but this is just crazier than that. Thanks....Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 3 years ago.

Hi Bart, it's good to talk with you again.

 

I am sorry to hear she is putting you through this. It sounds like she is using you for whenever she feels her husband is not meeting her needs. She knows the words you want to hear and uses them to bait you.

 

What is going on with her is she is thinking of her own needs. She knows you will respond to her when she calls, so she uses your feelings for her to get you to respond to her. She talks about a future when there isn't one just because she knows that is what you want. This is manipulation on her part. And she is most likely narcissistic. She is playing a game that only she gets to win.

 

The best way to get over this relationship is to take control and move on. Cut off all contact. This means no visiting and no taking her calls. Change your numbers if you have to. I know this is hard to do, but listening to her is dangerous for you and only leads you to more pain, so if you don't hear her at all you will have a better chance to move on. Try to keep yourself busy as well. This will distract you from thinking about her. Become involved with a hobby, invite friends over, join a club. Anything different that has nothing to do with your ex.

 

You may also want to consider working on your own marriage. There are many resources that can help you and your wife improve your marriage. Counseling, on line resources and books are good starts. Also, consider a marriage encounter weekend. Reuniting with your wife will fulfill the needs that you are now getting met by your ex and it will help you move on.

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5556
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Hi Kate...this is the final chapter in a long, 5 month, affair that has been as fruitless as a withering tree.

I won't go into everything I wrote previously as I think you probably have access to it anyway.

So here is what happened. You might be interested. I had not heard from my ex girlfriend for the entire weekend last weekend. I accused her of fooling around, etc. Then I insisted that we meet last Monday. She agreed, but wouldn't meet me at the motel, but wanted me to come to her new home. Her husband and kids were out for the day.

I went there. She had sent me a text before the weekend, meant for someone else and sent to me by mistake. Not the first time she did this. I called her on it and she sent me back one of my own texts with words embedded in it that I never wrote in order to convince me that she was, in fact, answering my own text. She went as far as to claim a few days later that she went to Verizon and they said it must have been a computer glich. In fact I went to JUST ANSWER and two experts said no way. It had to be embedded by her. Anyway, it's not important as to what was written as that's a book in itself, but she basically attempted to lie her way out of another look into her player ways.

So on Monday, in her home we had sex and then went out for a really nice day. We spoke on the phone for a couple of more days and then on Friday she texted me and said, "I'm having a hard time with us. I really feel like I need to stop this affair. Just being honest." This just a few days after having sex with me in her home and professing the greatest of love for me and crying that I didn't trust her and always thought that she was up to something.

I wrote back, "I don't want to know reasons anymore. I knew something was wrong yesterday. Be with whoever you want to be with, husband or boyfriend or whoever. Can't force you to love me. I'm finished with your yes and no attitude. As for me I'm finished. This time I am really moving on so when your present relationship sucks again, I won't be around. Don't text good bye with another text. You say you don't lie? Think again. I'm done."

Well I am finished, but I thought you might like to know the final chapter of this affair. It was a losing proposition from the start. She was never serious about anything with me, but as you said, she went from me to the next guy, back to me and then back to the next guy. I finally woke up and I appreciate your help in this. You were right as well as a couple of my friends, but you know that when the heart gets involved the intelligence gets put to the side until one is hurt enough and reaches that saturation point. Then self respect kicks in and one does the right and correct thing.

I have no intention of texting her back if she texts me again other than to tell her to move on and leave me alone, if I answer her at all. I believe that ignoring someone says a lot more than sending any sort of answer.

Thanks Kate.
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 3 years ago.

I appreciate you telling me what happened. Good for you! It is very hard, as you said, to see anything objectively when your heart is involved. But you were able to see her for what she was. Your ability to be suspicious, check out her stories and confront her all helped you get away from this damaging relationship. No doubt, she will move on and hurt someone else as she hurt you.

 

I think you are right, ignoring her completely is the best bet if she writes you again. And she may. It is probably hard for her to process that someone could let her go. As I mentioned before, she seems very self centered in her behavior. So ending the relationship probably has her scrambling to figure out how to respond.

 

Still, I am sorry for your loss. This was a relationship and even though it was unhealthy, when you ended it, it was a loss to you. It may take time for you to work through your feelings. Or you could have already started the process when you suspected her of lying to you. Either way, be good to yourself and give yourself time to recover.

 

Thanks again for letting me know how this worked out for you. It is always good to know when it's a happy ending. I was glad to be of help and I am here anytime you need someone to talk to. Take care!

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5556
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hello again Kate....

Well, I'm back, assuming you have my old texts, you know what my history has been concerning my ex or present girlfriend. I never know which it's going to be. I'll try to give you a brief synopsis of what's happening.

We've had the usual break ups and back together again and I can't seem to resist her as much as my intelligence is saying "run", my emotions are tied into this woman and perhaps my pride.

Last week we broke up again as she said that she didn't think she wanted me as a lover, but rather a friend. I told her to forget it. We split for about a day or two. I went back on a web site where I first met her called, Plenty Of Fish or POF. She followed me and found my profile. She texted me and then we spoke on the phone. I told her that she could do whatever it was that she wanted to do, but she asked me if I could meet her at our favorite place after work. I said okay. We met, kissed, played, talked and made love. She pledged her undying love again. It lasted for about two or three days.

Then yesterday, Sunday, she told me that she is having a hard time with us as she thinks that God wouldn't want her to be doing this and she feels conflicted. When we first met last week she said that her problem in showing love was because probably due to the fact that she was raised in a home for girls for her first seven years and then adopted into what she felt was not a very happy situation from where she left when she was seventeen. So she was never shown much love. So which is it, God, her upbringing or both?

I am so tired of all of this, yet I find it hard to let go.

So maybe instead of trying to assess what is going on with her and figuring her out, you can advise me of what is going on within me and why I can't seem to let loose of her. Even when I think I'm done with her all she has to do is call or text and I'm hooked again.

I can tell you that I've been married three times. I'm presently married for 2 1/2 years after having lived with my wife for 2 years before we married. We had "great" sex and a very close relationship for nearly two years. Prior to meeting her, I was a player for several years, but when I met her I felt that my playing days were no longer needed as I found the woman I was always looking for. After two years, my wife began to avoid sex like the plague. I didn't know why until recently. I always felt it was due to her not wanting to be with me for some reason, but as it turns out it has to do with surgery she had with a plastic mesh put into her for bladder surgery. It has been giving her trouble and has been painful and we are now involved in a lawsuit against the manufacturer, but the damage has been done to us as a couple. I really felt that she lost interest in me and I took it that way because she never told me what was happening. So I went looking and found my present girlfriend who is not even close to being the kind of woman my wife is, but I am still stuck on my girlfriend.

So what is happening with me? Why can't I seem to break away from my girlfriend and go back to my wife knowing the circumstances as they are? When I think that she might go back on that website where we met, I get sick to my stomach and I can't stand the thought of someone else touching her, and guys hitting on her on the website, etc. I am so caught up that I feel like I'm in never never land and I'm sick to my stomach.

Kate, I'm a mess. Can you help me figure out myself?

Thanks,

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Hi Bart, it's nice to talk with you again.

 

It is a healthy viewpoint you are taking on this situation. Seeing that exploring your girlfriend's behavior is not working, you are looking at what causes you to want to cheat and repeating your behaviors. This is very insightful and productive.

 

Exploring an issue like this takes some work. Don't expect that you will solve it right away. But even slight insight into your behavior can start a domino effect that leads you to other insights and eventually to solving the problem.

 

Your need to see your girlfriend and rekindle the relationship, as damaging as it is to you, is most likely based in your perception of relationships that learned as a child. It can also be from something that happened to you during childhood. When you were a child, if your parents did not provide the basis for a good self esteem and provide you with healthy view of behavior, you may have unmet needs. To fulfill those needs as an adult, you may engage in dysfunctional relationships, such as the one you are in now.

 

Cheating is often about emotional attachment. If you did not get this need met in childhood, for example through a normal relationship with your mother, you may seek it as an adult through your relationships with women. When your wife could not meet your needs sexually, you may have seen this as rejection of you. This may have felt unfair to you so you sought out an attachment with someone else. But you turned to someone who could not satisfy your needs completing, leaving it a challenge for you to get what you need.

 

Somewhere in your relationships there is a difficulty with attachment. You mentioned being a player before you were married,which shows difficulty with deep attachments with women. Once you did marry, you felt your wife was going to meet your needs and therefore you did not feel you needed to have other relationships. But when your wife did not fulfill this expectation, you looked elsewhere. This is a symptom of a much deeper need and a sense of focus on your own needs before others, like your wife's needs. That tells you that there is something driving you to put your needs for being wanted over others in your life.

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5556
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

Do you know it was 6 1/2 months since I met my girlfriend? Today it ended for good. I've said it before, but she did something that has made me look at her with disgust.

I met her with a couple of belated Christmas gifts that I had for her. She was distant with me. We got to talking and last week, when we argued, as I told you in my previous letter, we went onto the POF web site which is a dating site. When we met last week, I erased the site from both our telephones and I thought that was it.

Today, she told me that she had made contact with on guy from the site before I erased the site, that she exchanged email addresses and sent him a picture of herself. She tried to hide the email from me, but I found it in the sent email section of her telephone.

Then I asked her why she did it and she said that he was cute and then she told me that she would like to have coffee with him some time. I blew a gasket and couldn't believe it. After so much time with her, she suddenly decided to see this other fellow who she doesn't know and sort of threw me out like the trash. I told her I would never be in touch with her after that under any circumstances and I have to tell you Kate, it hurts very badly.

I always had suspicions about her fooling around, but she always talked her way out of it. This time she told me up front which told me that she was finally finished with her little games with me and that she used me all this time.

I am wrecked for the moment. I know time will heal, but can you suggest what might have been going through her head and also what can I do to ease this pain I'm feeling. I would never go back with her after this betrayal. I suppose it's justice considering we both were cheating on our spouses and I guess they would feel even worse than I do, but how do I get rid of the pain?

Thanks,

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Bart,

 

I am sorry to hear that she did that to you. It certainly fits her past behavior. She is s chronic cheater and will probably always be this way unless she sees the harm in her behavior. Right now, she does not.

 

People who chronically cheat are usually unable to connect on a normal level with others. They have deep needs to be loved that they cannot meet in a normal relationship so they go from person to person, seeking the thrill of a new relationship and that feeling of connecting. A new relationship offers no problems initially, included responsibly and deep emotions. Usually, someone who cheats often is self centered and unwilling to face what needs to be done to stay with one person.

 

It's not easy to face the loss of a relationship, especially when you are betrayed. It is necessary to grieve your loss and try to find support through friends and family if you can. Expressing your feelings about your loss is also important. Writing it out in a journal, on line in a blog or chat or just talking about it helps. Also, consider writing a good bye letter to your ex. Say whatever comes to your mind. Keep it for a while and add to it if it helps. You don't need to send the letter for it to be effective. Keep it and review it often. It will help you remember why your relationship ended and keep your resolve to focus on recovery.

 

Also, consider trying to work on your marriage. Your focus has been on your affair. You can take the energy you spent on the affair and try working on your marriage with it. See a counselor, read up on the problems in your marriage and try to reconnect with your wife. It will help you find a healthier path and heal from your experience.

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5556
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate, I'm back. But I have a feeling it might be the last time.

I did go back with my girlfriend again. And I just got thrown under the bus for doing it. You'd would think that I would have learned except this time she used a method of breaking up that would seem fairly permanent.

First, yesterday, we were texting and she told me, in what appeared to be jest, that she was seeing someone. I called her and she was laughing about it and it seemed that she was just kidding around.

Last night, I was texting her as she didn't answer my texts too quickly and finally her last text of the night was that her husband got suspicious of the telephone bill being so high so he began to check it out thoroughly, which she told me he never did before. Well, of course he found all the texts and calls we make to each other every day and he questioned it. She didn't get back to me until this morning when she said, "I told him everything about us. I am staying with him. Please don't text or call me any more". Then she sent another text saying, "He was not angry as much as he was hurt...very understanding of human nature. He said he forgives me and we will just move on from here". I sent her a few texts telling her that I thought that it was coincidental that she should tell me that she was seeing someone in the afternoon, as a joke and then this happened.

She did call me on the phone to explain it all and she seemed sincere, but who knows. I've learned that to cheat one has to be a liar and the best way of getting out of a relationship is to say the spouse found out and it has to end. She did write three short texts after saying, "I will always remember us". Then "Bye". Then about five hours later she wrote, "I just wish everyone wasn't hurting". I didn't answer that one. I did send her a letter via email that her husband can't pick up and told her that I thought the whole thing was very coincidental, but the fact is that I felt that she would never leave her husband, the house, her kids, her grandchild, her security to come with me. I also told her that she had a choice last night, if it was true about her husband. She could have left him and come with me, but she decided not to do that. I told her that I nearly did that to my wife after I knew her for only a couple of months, but now that it's seven months she would not do if for me. I said, "shame on you Patty". I also told her and decided there will be no more fooling around for me. I will attempt to make it work with my wife. I have to remember there was a time before my girlfriend, there will be a time without her and I believe I can rekindle the great love I have for my wife when we met just a few short 4 1/2 years ago. One thing about my wife. I never and I mean never had the same kind of roller coaster ride with her that I have had with Patty. I count this as the 12th or 13th break up with her. This is the one that will be for good, I believe. There is no way she could or should communicate with me. She made a promise, perhaps, to her husband and should keep it. Besides I am sure that if her story is true, he will be sure to check the phone logs every month for quite some time.

I am a mess today as you can well imagine. I don't know what bothers me more, the possibility of her throwing me under the bus because of her husband who she hasn't liked in 24 years of marriage or the possibility of her doing this to be with someone else and making up a story. I have no way of knowing what's real.

All I know is I'm hurting and I need your help. I know I've gotten myself into trouble and if I had taken your advice in the past, I would not be going through this today, but I let my heart rule and I put my intelligence aside.

Funny, but I'm Catholic, and just a few days ago, knowing that the best thing for me was to break off from her, I said a prayer to the Blessed Mother and asked her for her help in this situation and that I believed the best thing for me was to break up with Patty. I asked that she guide me with God's will as to the best course of action. It looks like she took me seriously.

Any words of wisdom to get out of this pain as quickly as possible?

Thanks Kate,

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Hi Bart,

 

I am sorry this happened to you. It is always painful going through a break up. Since you have been through some very intense highs and lows with Patty the past several months, you have to be feeling pretty overwhelmed right now.

 

Your thoughts and feelings about this are very insightful and a very good place to start. You mentioned that you cannot tell if Patty is being truthful or not. You may want to think of yourself as blessed because if you had stayed with her, or gotten into an exclusive relationship with her, you would be riding that roller coaster for the rest of your life, given that she would even stay in the relationship with you. That is not something you want for your life or something you deserve. Patty will continue to lie, cheat and treat others with the same disregard whether she is with you or not. She may stay with her husband or she may be outright lying. But either way, whomever she is with is going to be treated the same way you have been treated because Patty is in this for herself and no one else.

 

Working on your marriage is a great way to put this all behind you. Consider counseling with your wife if you feel there is something missing in your marriage. Be honest and open with her. She sounds like she is faithful to you and is trustworthy, something that is to be cherished and held onto.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself about this. Yes, you may feel you messed up. But who doesn't? As long as you try to make amends and do your best to fix things, you are doing better than most people. And long after you repair yourself and your marriage, Patty will still be lying and cheating and hurting everyone in her life.

 

Take time to grieve. This is a loss and you need to take time to feel sad about it. Learn more about grief and loss and try to connect with others if you feel you want support. Here is a link to help you:

 

http://helpguide.org/mental/coping_divorce_relationship_breakup.htm

 

Also, express how you feel. Write a letter to Patty about how you feel. Keep it and add to it as you need to. It will allow you to express your feelings to her without having to deal with her input about it. Keep the letter and when you feel you are done with grieving, burn the letter or tear it up. It will signal the end of the relationship and the end of your feelings for her.

 

If you need to talk, I am always here for you.


Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Again Kate,

Thanks so much for all your advice and for the articles that you sent to me about breaking up and how to handle the break up. I was a mess yesterday and therefore didn't answer your advice or press accept. I needed time to think.

I went to church this morning at 10 AM. It helps for me to be closer to God in times like this. I also thanked God for answering my prayers said the week before when I asked him to take over regarding Patty and me and help me make the right choice. Looks like he took matters into his own hands, thank Him.

And then I began to look at all the saved texts that I have from Patty, since around Sept. I saved many of them. All the saved texts, emails, and also the questions and answers from Just Answer from you and two other therapist before you were saved and read. It amazed me how I forgot to what extent Patty was jerking me around all this time. Very often not answering my texts or calls, making me wait over a weekend before she would call back, then saying she was up and down about us every week. There is so much more that I'm sure you have in my past letters to you that I began to wonder why I felt this closeness to her? I never had a relationship like the one I had with her. It was just a lesson in self torture. I should have taken your advice right from the beginning and left her on my own terms at an earlier time. It would have saved me many headaches.

What I did was call my wife today on numerous occasions and talk to her just like I used to when we first met. Funny, but I met her on the internet and to tell you the truth, Anita, my wife, and I never had a problem with each other. In fact we were so close that people used to comment, just from seeing us walk in Manhattan, about how young and close we seemed to be. It was amazing. We missed each other when we weren't together and I never and I mean NEVER had cause to doubt her loyalty. And she never had cause to doubt my loyalty until I met Patty. I discussed with her that I think it would be a great idea if we planned a cruise to Bermuda for this coming summer. We haven't had a vacation since we took four days on Martha's Vineyard when we first married 2 1/2 years ago. She is very enthusiastic about it and it seems we are becoming closer. She is in California visiting her kids, but she is anxious to return as I am to have her now. We are also going to plan a trip to Ireland and Italy for the following summer. Do you know something Kate? I actually missed my wife during this 7 months with Patty in as much as I wasn't feeling close to her at all. I decided to take the bull by the horns, so to speak and make life right again for Anita and myself. By the way, just so you know, my wife and I started a business together two years ago. It's not a good idea. We seemed to grow farther apart with the start of the business. But now we closed it and I think this is our chance to get back together especially since my affair with Patty is over.

As for Patty, I have to ask you one thing. I seem to be mellowing out regarding the break up as at this point I am still upset to a degree, but not nearly as much as yesterday. Not after I read all the former texts, etc. and started to concentrate on my wife.

What I want to know is this....

My thought was that either she really was found out by her husband and had to end the affair or leave her home and come with me OR she used it as an excuse to see another man and wanted to really end the affair so she could see some other guy without me around. Either way our affair is over. I know I've said this before, but I won't go back. No longer. Not after realizing how much she jerked me around all these months. And I won't put my wife through anything like that. No more. I'm finished with that nonsense. I know where my loyalty and love belong. With my wife who appreciates me and loves me. But my question is this:

Why did it bother me more when I thought she might be using her husband discovering of our affair as an excuse to see another man more that it did to know that her husband actually caught us in the affair? Is it a competition thing or that I don't like it when someone tricks me? Look who is talking about tricking. I have a lot to go to confession for in my church. That might be another good step. Clear the air with me and God. What do you think? Just curious.

And Kate, thanks so much for you help. I hope that next time I write to you, it's to tell you how my wife and I are getting along.

My best,

Bart

Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

You are welcome, Bart! I am glad to be here to help.

 

It sounds like you really have taken the time to think this through and do some very positive things with what you discovered about yourself, your marriage and the affair. And being closer to God is always a good thing. It can only help you become the person you want to be.

 

It probably bothers you more that Patty might be lying to you rather than telling you the truth because being lied to is deception, which no one wants to be subject to. Deception makes us all feel the fool. It hurts, much more than the truth does even if the truth is painful. So Patty possibly telling you a lie is hurtful to you.

 

Telling God about your sins and asking for forgiveness is always a good way to clear the air and start over. God forgives if you ask. And He will help you start again with your wife.

 

I would love to hear about how you and your wife are doing! Please stay in touch.

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
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Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate. I hope you're having a great Sunday.

I decided to write to you after thinking about it for a few days. After writing to you the last time and thinking everything was cool with Patty, it wound up that she got in touch with me one last time about two or three weeks ago. This has happened so often that I can't even put them in chronological order any longer.

She had emailed me one day while I was working, on a Friday, and she simply wrote, "yes I did". I was tempted to just let it go, but she knew me too well and that was like throwing bait on a hook for me. So I answered and said that she must have been writing to someone else. I hadn't written to her at all since she broke up with me a week and a half earlier. She said that she was answering a statement that I said to her on our break up. I told her that she didn't love me. Okay, we finally got into more of an email conversation and I asked her what she wanted and without the BS, why did she write to me after so long? She said that she wrote to me because she still loves me, would like to see me again and that she wanted to hold me and never let me go. Of course I was skeptical at this point, but intrigued by her manipulation and admittedly I might have been hopeful. I remembered what you said. So I said okay, then meet me at the motel on Tuesday at 10 AM. She said that she would and we agreed to talk about it. I wasn't all that excited about it which was a first for me.

Next, we emailed each other on Friday night and on Saturday. Finally, on Sunday, I emailed her at 12:45 PM. The time is important! At exactly 12:50, she wrote me a fairly long email for her, wrote in bold letters with the heading, "Trouble!". Then she explained to me that her daughter was using her phone and looked at the last three emails that I sent to her about meeting and about using a Trac Phone. Then, her 12 year old daughter who was very upset, went to her father and told him what she read. He then read her the riot act, according to Patty and said that he didn't want to lose her, but didn't trust her. After or during all of that, she supposedly wrote me her email breaking off and telling me that she would never do it again because of her daughter. AFter all of that, she told me that she actually had been with her daughter at the local CVS store. She allowed her daughter to use the phone and when she came back out of the store she was confronted by her daughter. It had to have taken about three to four minutes for her to drive home. Then her daughter would have had to have gone inside, immediately told her father and then he would have taken at least five minutes to read her the riot act. With all of that going on, she supposedly wrote me an email without spelling errors, bold lettering on the heading and with multiple explanation marks after one or two words. She sent it to me exactly five minutes after my email came into her, at 12:50 PM. No way in that time frame could all of that have happened.

I told her that I wouldn't have thought, knowing that her husband supposedly caught us a few weeks earlier, that she would have taken a chance and allowed her daughter to use the phone, especially knowing that emails on her phone were the only way that we had to communicate. I told her that she was lying and sent her an email telling her that I knew that she was now involved with someone else, probably broke up with him for a couple of days and that he was back in the picture. Therefore she had planned this out to dump me again and that I didn't think that her husband ever found out about us from a month earlier, but that she had been seeing a guy she met on line and who she sent a picture to at about the same time a month earlier when she told me that her husband found out about us and that all we could do was email rather than call and text.

So not to belabor this any longer, I told her she was an habitual liar and that I had enough of her games and not to bother me any longer. I told her that I had hoped that her new boyfriend would treat her in the same unloving, cold and non caring manner that she had treated me.

That was two weeks ago and I never heard from her since then.

I did want to tell you because it gets it off my chest, but I have begun to write a book entitled, "The Tree And The Playground" which is all about the last 8 months with her. The tree is one of the places we used to meet and the playground is her playground where she played with me and then would take her ball and go home until she felt like playing again, over and over again up to probably 15 times in 8 months. It's great therapy and it helps me to sort it all out. Hopefully, I'll make some money with it and perhaps if my wife reads it she'll forgive me.

As for my wife, we are getting along very well now and have found a renewed love, so to speak. I never told her about Patty and I don't plan to tell her unless the book has hope of being published. We are planning a trip to Bermuda in July via a cruise and we are getting back to where we were before all this happened in a positive way.

As for Patty, I have to admit, I think about her every day, but it's becoming less of a focus with each passing day. When I start to get that yearning feeling for her, I quickly remind myself that I went through a hell that no one should have gone through for 8 months. And what do I have to show for it? Absolutely nothing. It was a waste of my precious time.

I'll keep you up on what's happening and I'm glad that you're out there, Kate.

Your thoughts about what happened would be nice to hear and helpful.

Thanks again for everything,

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Hello Bart!

 

I just wanted to let you know that I got your post. I'm out for the day but will be back on later tonight. I hope that is ok.

 

Talk to you then,

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thanks Kate....hope you're having a great time today. Whenever you get a chance, I would love to hear from you. Thanks, Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Hi Bart, thanks for your patience.

 

Good for you! I think what you did was great. You really called her out on what she did to you and keeps doing to you.

 

As you described her actions, it stood out that she really seems to get a lot out of the excitement of "getting caught" in her relationship with you. It is the same story each time you are with her. She gives you a cryptic message that gets your attention, you respond, she draws you back in with how much she cares for you, then she conveniently gets caught and then you get dismissed.

 

Although I cannot diagnose anyone I have not seen for an evaluation, it appears that many of the traits she exhibits are similar to a personality disorder. With a personality disorder, a person's reactions, emotions and actions are driven by a deep desire to fulfill an unmet need, usually from childhood. The person uses manipulation, emotional outbursts and neediness to get the attention they desire.And unless they see what they are doing, they usually do not get help with the problem so they do not get better. This may be why Patty keeps coming back again and again trying to manipulate you into responding and never seems to learn from your reaction that she is doing something wrong to you.

 

It is good that you ended all contact with her. It is the best way to handle someone who potentially has a personality disorder. Not responding to the cryptic emails, phone calls or other communication will eventually help you get out of the relationship for good.

 

I hope your book does very well! I wish you the best with it, as well as renewing your marriage. It sounds like you are in a good place with everything. Let me know how you are doing once in a while. I'd love to hear from you.

 

Kate

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Category: Mental Health
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Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

Back again, I think for the last time. The lies have freed the slaves.

Okay, I had a relapse for about two weeks or less and met with Patty again. She texted me after having bought a trac phone to speak with me so her husband wouldn't find out and I began to see her. The first few days she was all love and warmth. That was on a Thursday. We met and you know.

I decided to buy her another phone to help with with the payments on a prepaid phone with no contract but better than a trac phone.

On Monday evening I gave her the phone and asked her for her trac phone as I knew that she wouldn't be able to easily hide two phones from her family. She refused and pulled the phone from my hand. I got annoyed thinking she was using her phone to contact other men or another man. Okay, I let her have it and eventually she broke it and put it in the garbage.

The next few days was down hill and she became cooler.

Then this week, I saw her on Tuesday for lunch. She is going away on April 6 with her family on vacation for ten days and I wanted to see her. We spoke about today, Thursday at 11 AM and then on Monday of next week, just before she was going away. Each day she was resistant and didn't want to meet. I had to wonder why. She came on loving when she wanted to come back to me and then back to being cooler in days later. I left her Tuesday at 1:30 PM and didn't hear from her the rest of the day or on Wednesday at all even after I texted her several times.

So this morning I reminded her that she and her grandaughter, one year old, were to meet me at 11 at our little meeting spot in a park.

At 8:45 she wrote a text, the first one after two days, and said, "plans have changed, he (her husband) is staying home sick and son in law (who lives with her family) has my car. Her daughter and his car died".

After seeing that she was resistant to meeting me two days earlier and that she didn't get in touch with me for a long time and then seeing this message, I became suspicious. I decided to check it out. Like President Reagan used to say, "Trust but verify". I did. Something she was not expecting me to do.

I drove an hour to her house and saw that her car was there, but her son in laws car was not and her husband's car was not.

This meant that she lied to me. Evidently her husband went to work and her son in law was in his car and it was not dead in the driveway like she told me, and that she had access to her car.

I went to our meeting spot and sent a text. I said, "You lied. Your car is in the driveway and there are no other cars there. Not your husband's car and not your son in laws car. I just got back to our meeting place. Bring my phone and my power cords right now...we are finished."

She got panicky and told me to come to her house that no one was there except her and her Grand daughter. She would give me my stuff there.

I went to pick it up. After she told me about her husband and son in law, I asked her why she couldn't use her husband's car to meet me if he was home sick just for a short time. She sent me another text which I didn't receive and told me that she texted me that her husband decided to go to work about 45 minutes after he said he was going to take the day off and that her son in law returned her car about an hour earlier before I passed by her house. The truth is that her husband never called in sick, but went to work and her son in law's car was working just fine as it was not on the property. She lied with an elaborate lie, about why she could not see me in as much as she said that she didn't have her car to get her to our meeting place.

Why, I don't know, but I counted at least five lies in all of that. I finally caught her in her lies and she knew it. She tried to talk her way out of it, but she got herself in deeper. I was finished with her and she blew it.

Now, I think that I was never able to let go of her even after all the other lies and the times when she left me because I never felt like I had anything concrete to say she actually lied to me, though I always felt that she did. After today, I'm a free man. I will not go back to her. She showed me her true colors and my thinking is vindicated.
Frankly, I was hoping that I'd find the truth today and I did.

So what is your opinion of the whole thing, Kate?

Just to say one more thing. She had left me for one month and then came back to me suddenly and unexpected before all of this. She told me that she had met a man from OKCupid.com and that he was not to her liking. It is my opinion that she came back to me because of that, but that she was probably in contact with someone else yesterday and today and didn't want her time to talk to him on the phone cut short in order to meet me. When I asked her during all of this why she didn't call me for two days, she said, "I just didn't feel like it". I said to her that's not the type of relationship I want". That and the lies did it for me for good. I feel like a weight has been removed from my shoulders. A real heavy weight.

What do you think?

Thanks Kate,

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Hi Bart,

 

It sounds like she lived up to your expectations. She outright lied but the fact that you were suspicious enough to not trust her and check it out says that you already knew what to expect from her.

 

Unfortunately, she seems to be a manipulator. She plays with your feelings to get what she wants. It is interesting that she turned colder towards you after she got the phone from you. It seems that she tries to either get sympathy, attention or gifts from you then once she gets what she wants, she backs off. It may be that she finds it thrilling to see how far she can get with you then when she achieves what she wants, she loses interest. That is when the deception and games she uses to avoid you begin.

 

This is an unhealthy relationship for you. You are trying to have a normal relationship and she is incapable of one. It's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Each time you get close to a normal relationship it doesn't work.

 

It's good that you checked her story out and found out the truth. If she tries to contact you in the future (I'm pretty sure she'll try unless she has found another person to manipulate), it might help you to make a list of the things she has done to deceive you so you can read it over to prevent you from responding. As soon as you respond, she is good at pulling you in. She knows the right things to say to get your attention and she will ramp the "crisis" up if you do not respond. Not communicating at all with her would be the best way to stay away. Consider changing your phone number, emails and other contact information. Or at least block her the best you can. That can minimize the temptation to respond.

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

It's always nice to hear from you when I have a problem. I agree one hundred percent with you. This time, she tipped me off. What I mean by that is I always suspected her of cheating on me and of lying to me, but she always swore, on a stack of bibles, that she was not. Though my gut said she was, I was still uncertain. I suppose my "mid life crisis" kicked in and I didn't want to believe it. But when we spoke about meeting and she was resistant, and then didn't talk to me or text me from Tuesday afternoon until yesterday late morning, I knew that was lying. When she wrote to me she gave me two reasons why she couldn't see me. She over reached with the excuses. When someone overreaches I believe they are lying. Wouldn't you agree? Then to compound it after I had suggested earlier that she uses her husbands car to see me, she did what I expected. She said that her husband went to work after all and she her son in law had her car so there was no way to meet me.

I literally prayed that I would find out she was lying because I for the past nine months, I had been seriously hurting emotionally and physically in that I had a hard time eating, sleeping, working out, etc. It had to stop. I believe I went as a means of self preservation. But I'm free at last. And this time, if she were to call me, I'm ready for it. I won't answer her calls or texts or emails. She is history.

I can take a lot from a person, but outright lying to me and compounding it to cover her lie is not something I give second chances for and quite frankly I can now point to other times she lied without hesitation and determine how she lied and I pretty much know it was to meet someone else.

To let you know, before she got in touch with me, my wife and I had been doing okay and working on things, but when she got back to me, it was back to the same old routine. This time I went out last night and bought my wife roses and told her I love her and I meant it. It felt good. So I guess this time, God was looking out for me as well as friends like you and my other life long friend, Pete, who has helped me through some rough moments.

Will I ever go back to her? No. I'm free of the intrigue, the tension, the pain of wondering if she is cheating, the being lied to and I'm not going back to it.

One last word if you will.

I would suspect that she was about as surprised as I've ever seen anyone. I counted five lies altogether just to keep from seeing me. I don't know what I did to deserve that, but I didn't deserve it and I was fuming, but controlled. I simply wasn't going to leave my phone with her. Even if I have to throw it into a lake, I wasn't going to let her use it for her own little pleasures.

I needed to see her lies, concrete and up front and personal. I did and I know that I won't be going back to her ever again. The fadct that I found out, for sure that she was lying to me was the last straw. I feel like a free man with the weight of the world taken off my shoulders. I never felt this way before when we spoke. I guess, as they say, the truth shall set you free.



I know you are correct when you said that I was trying to have a healthy relationship with someone who didn't want it. It would never have worked. And once you said that I should feel blessed because if I ever hooked up with her permanently, I'd be suffering for the rest of my life with her. You are absolutely correct.

So what is her next move? To call, write or text? And will she do it because her relationship with whoever she is with is folding up? Or that she misses me and she wants to see if she can rope me in again?

I can tell you, it won't happen. She let the bird out of the nest and I'm not flying back there.

What do you think, one last time. Next time I write it will be about something else, just to say hello perhaps. I am so glad that I can bring up copies of all the notes I've written to you since believe it or not, October.

Take care,

Bart

Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Bart,

 

I am glad that you could get free of this very damaging relationship. She seems to have serious issues with lying and manipulation and you were only going to get hurt even further if you had stayed and kept trying with her. It usually pays to listen to your gut feelings.

 

When it comes to someone who likes to manipulate, the goal is to get their own needs satisfied first, no matter the cost to the other person. Sometimes those needs have to do with getting attention, for others it is to do it for the thrill of seeing how far they can go, and still others for a variety of reasons. People learn this type of behavior from childhood where they had to learn to adapt to deal with dysfunctional relationships with the adults in their lives who may be using drugs or alcohol, or are being abusive towards the child. Someone who manipulates usually does not see what they are doing. The lack of insight makes it hard for them to ever get help and therefore ever recover and have healthy relationships.

 

I explained all that to help you see that her next move is probably going to be whatever gives her the most jolt she can get. She probably wants to find a way to either get something for herself, or she wants to see how far she can play a game with someone and get away with it. She may have gotten the message that you are done this time, so the chances that she will return again are less than they used to be. But if she had any doubt that you meant what you said, she will try again, probably a text or contact you through something that provides a barrier for her in case you are upset with her for what she did last time. Hopefully, though, she has moved on.

 

It's nice to know that you and your wife are back together and you are interested in making your marriage work. I imagine that your wife was happy to receive the flowers and the attention. I wish you both a very happy future together!

 

I'd love to hear how things are going. Drop by anytime, Bart!

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5556
Experience: Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
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Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Just to let you know as it confirms what you said....Patty's mother, who gave her to a home, was a prostitute hooked on drugs and alcohol. I guess that's the dysfunctional issue as a child that she had. She was given up by her mother to a home for girls, from what she told me, adopted at age 7 by a wealthy family, and then she left at age 17.

She has issues.

Thanks, Kate.

Love talking to you. Next time let's make it without Patty or anyone else being an issue. Just a friendly hello. lol.

Thanks,

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

I thought as much, but thank you for confirming it. People usually do not develop dysfunction at this level without something happening to them early in life.

 

Take care, Bart. I look forward to hearing from you again!

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

Not for a minute did I expect my ex, Patty, to get in touch with me again. She did by writing an email just 15 minutes ago. She simply wrote, "Hi, how are you?" I trashed the email and I won't answer it. Just want to know what else I might expect her to do. She must have gotten bored with whoever she's been with but I know one thing.....I have had enough of her. Any thoughts about what she might try?

Thanks Kate....hope you're well.

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Hi Bart!

 

I thought she might try to contact you again.

 

It sounds like with her email that she is testing you to see how you will react. I am glad to hear that you trashed the email and didn't answer. That is a good response.

 

She may try to email you again. Because of her issues, she may not think that you would reject her permanently, and may explain your last break up as you just being upset with her temporarily. That is how someone with her type of history usually handles rejection. They explain it away as something temporary or something wrong with the other person.

 

If she doesn't get you by email, she may think it's because it was lost (again, not seeing the real issue and how you truly feel about her) so she may try something else, like calling you. Depending on how desperate she feels (other broken relationships, trouble in the ones she does have) she may continue to try to get your attention.

 

If you don't want to talk with her, you may want to start cutting off possible ways she can get to you. You can't stop things like snail mail, but blocking her number and her email is a good place to start.

 

I hope she does not become to intense about talking with you. If she starts to escalate, you may need to take stronger action. But for now, these ideas should help.

 

Let me know how it goes,

 

Kate

Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 5556
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Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thanks Kate. Funny, but I thought she would leave me alone since I caught her in lies and broke off with her. I hope she just forgets about it, but if she is persistent, I will have to look at my options. I have a feeling you might hear from me again. When she asked how I was I was tempted to write back, "happily married", but decided to write nothing to her.

Take care,

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

You're welcome!

 

It's good you decided to let it go. She would only use your communication against you.

 

I'm here if you need to talk, anytime. And thank you ahead of time for your accept!

 

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hello Again Kate,

I would rather be writing to you to tell you all is well, but it turned sour not long after we last were in contact. I didn't write sooner so I could see if Patty, now my ex girlfriend, would pull the same stuff on me as always.

She did, but this time in spades.

I'll try to make a very long story short.

As it turns out about five weeks ago, Patty got in touch with me as always. I had gotten pretty much over her, but for whatever reason the temptation was too great for me and took the bait once again.

She told me that she had a new guy she was seeing, but that he wasn't like me. After a few notes back and forth, I asked her who the new guy was and she said that it was really her husband. Lie number one.

So we started to see each other. At least I started to see her. I'd drive to have lunch with her at her job and when she was having jury duty. But when I wanted to go to bed with her she found every reason in the book as an excuse.

So finally last week she and I finally had sex at a motel after approximately five weeks of being back together. In talking to her she said that she had gone back on facebook just to check it out. I grew suspicious by the way she said it and I checked into it. There was an extra guy in her friends list. As it turned out, this guy was someone she met, "the new guy", about a week before she came back to me on OKCUPID.com. We got into an argument the next day and words began to fly when she told me that she was going to continue to communicate with him and that she had given him the cell phone number of the phone that I got for her in a prepaid plan. I was paying for it and she was supposed to use it only for us. Evidently she didn't want her husband to see someone new using her other phone so she used me. I thought, when we got back together that she asked me for the phone rather abruptly, but I thought it was because she wanted to be sure to be able to call me. So lie number two.

Now when we were in a park together to meet and talk about it that was the time she told me that she was going to continue to speak to him via email or whatever. She said that the guy was just some nice guy with four children and a wife who has stress in his marriage and he needed someone to talk to. I told her he should seek help with someone else and not her. Anyway, I took the phone as I was not about to let her use it any longer for her to speak to him as I was paying the bill and she broke up with me. Then I was so angry that I threw it in the park lake. Not done yet.

I called her just about every name in the book because I felt used and betrayed by her. I felt that if she wanted to break up with me to be with this guy, then why did she come back to me in the first place?

Anyway, the next day I spent all day apologizing to her, like a dumb ass fool, hoping we could move on from there, but she wouldn't accept my apology. She said that she wanted time to think things over. I had heard that before.

By Saturday I was going to get her another phone as the situation seem to be calming down. I was going to meet her at the park, but she told me to bring the phone and leave it under that park bench and she'd pick it up when she had time. I told her to forget it. It was obvious she didn't want to be near me.

Then all hell broke loose. Emails back and forth and her new boyfriend got involved when he wrote to me an email. He said that he would not interfere with her and I, if I was interested in staying with her. Little did I know that this bastard was manipulative and that he in fact told Patty who told me, that he thought that she should break up with me, but if she wanted to stay with me he would share her with me. I grew livid when I heard that, but funny thing is that it seemed to not bother Patty at all.

Yesterday , I told her that we should meet in the park and talk and that she should send this guy an email and tell him to back off if she wanted to be with me. I did the same, but she sent a one sentence email saying that he got my email, she is with me and not to get in touch with her again. I found out that the two of them were in constant contact with each other comparing notes about what we were saying and writing to each other and this guy, like a puppet master, was pulling all of her strings and mine too.

Obviously I got angry and threatened to blow the whole affair out of the water by going to her husband and letting him know that Patty and I had still been together even after she promised not to see me when he found out about us. I was going a bit crazy. I felt so damn betrayed by someone who I showed love to for one year and having put up with the many times she would leave me and then come back to me and all for a guy she claims that she had not been with but had been emailing. I'm sure another lie. A guy doesn't suggest that she break up with her boyfriend if all he as to her was just a friend.

There were lies coming from out of the blue as she continued to try to make me look as if I was losing it and that she wanted to leave me because, "I have been mean to her". Kate, the only time,in the past year that I was ever annoyed, was when she would leave me and come back and then leave me again. But this time I was very angry.

Anyway, this morning, I met her in the park. She was as cold as she could be and told me that she didn't feel the same way about me as I did about her and that her new boyfriend emailed her at two in the morning comparing notes again.

I felt like I had my soul ripped out of me and spit on. But I realized that you have been right all the time and that I should have stayed away from her. It's not so much that I miss her. After all, there really was not a real relationship. It was one sided. But I feel so betrayed that I began to pity her husband, who I unfortunately had done the same thing to because we were having an affair. I finally see what it means to have someone who you feel close to taken from you by another man.

What I can't understand is why she would even come back to me if she was interested in her new boyfriend? How could she turn on me so quickly, after having made love just this last Wednesday? Maybe because I put two and two together?

It seemed so unreal. I always tried to treat her as well as I could and always expressed love to her, but you know how she has been, never being able to express love.

Yet here she met this new guy, then pulls me back to her when I had been getting used to not having her near me and I was happy. And now this craziness. It's obvious that if I hadn't checked out her facebook profile I would not have known that she had another guy. She lied to me there too. She would have been seeing both of us and he would have been okay with it. It's just plain sick.

I have since placed her numbers on block. I understand that she erased my numbers from her phone. I believe that was at the direction of her new boyfriend. This guy seems to be more manipulative than she has been and Patty, for a woman who didn't want to listen to anyone, she is taking marching orders from him constantly.

Anyway, I told her to forget about me and never come back and that I felt the guy was going to be a nightmare for her and her family based on what I observed in his emails to me and by the fact that the two of them co conspired to make me look like a fool while she broke up with me. She tried to blame me for everything that happened even though she lied constantly about everything.

I could use your opinion about all of this. Will she make another attempt to get back to me when she loses interest in this guy. What was this all about on her part and her boyfriend's part. And anything you can tell me.

I already know I could have saved myself the trouble and the sleepless nights by not having gone back with her to begin with, but I do need to understand. An eighteen year old friend who is well beyond his years in wisdom, offered me insight. He said that perhaps it was never love that I felt for Patty, but perhaps lust. I thought about it and to tell you the truth, it made sense in as much as every time Patty would ask me why I loved her, I couldn't come up with an answer.

Your opinion Kate? I feel like a disappointment to you and to myself.

I know I'm a much better person than either of them, but I feel so betrayed that it's eating at me. I wonder how she can do that to me after the year when I would buy her gifts, spend my time visiting her, talking to her on the phone when she was having trouble with her husband and family and work, and you know all the rest. I was unlike her husband who drinks heavily, etc.

I have to say, I finally think I know what her husband must feel like and you were right that if I had ever hooked up with her permanently, I would never have rested easily as she would have been on the dating sites and cheating.

Your thoughts please?

Thanks,

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Hello, it's nice to hear from you Bart.


She probably wants you emotionally invested so she can manipulate your feelings and play with you. It probably makes her feel good about herself to do this. She uses mystery and baits you by making you jealous and curious about her. She makes reality seem something it is not and uses that to get to you. It’s most likely all a game to her and she is having fun getting all the men in her life riled up and paying attention to her, jealous and wanting her only.

 

What you are looking at is most likely someone with a personality disorder. Manipulation and making you feel bad, like your reaction is not normal, are hallmarks of someone with a personality disorder.


As long as you give her time and a way to appeal to you, she will find a way to bait you. The only way to get rid of her is to cut off all communication. Do not open her emails, don’t answer her phone calls, texts or any other communication. Ignore her as if she doesn’t exist, no matter how long it’s been since you have heard from her. She will always come back because she can manipulate you. When you don’t give her that option, she will eventually go away.


You may also want to take the time to see why you keep returning to her. You are getting hurt each and every time but there is draw that has you respond to her no matter how many times she hurts you. That means there is an unmet need you have that you feel you can get addressed with her. But since it never gets met, you keep trying anyway.


If you have not talked to a therapist, it might be time to do that. Explore what needs you have and develop better ways to get them met that are healthier and more fulfilling. That will help you be able to say no when you hear from her.


Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

Basically your saying that this has all been a game for her and its at my expense or at least was. I thought about what you said. I asked myself why do I keep falling into the same trap all the tine? I understand Einsteins definition of insanity I know I'm not insane so I thought about it. Like my young friend suggested I could be lusting after her rather than love her though frankly we had sex only twice in 4 months. I went through a list of why I normally have loved someone so I made up Check list. Is she beautiful, no, but a bit homely. She is not honest. She is manipulative so I don't love her for that. She its not trustworthy She is not giving off herself and she is about as cold a woman as I have ever seen yet I keep going back
My wife has all the positive attributes and when we met you couldn't separate me from her. She cares about me but at the moment sex its non existent and has been for 3 years. And though I hardly have sex with Patty anymore, maybe I remained hopeful until last week Is it lust that I feel for her? Right now I'm completely turned off by her after she tag teamed me with her new boyfriend. I don't want to see her again. What do you think.....Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

What ever is driving you to see her is a bit deeper than the questions you are asking yourself. That is why I suggested a therapist. There is some unmet need, maybe from childhood, that causes you to be drawn in by Patty no matter what she does to you. It may take a little digging to get to it, but there is something there.

Kate

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Category: Mental Health
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Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate...

After all the letters I've sent to you, I wonder if you're beginning to say, "this guy is a glutton for punishment". To tell you the truth, I'm not, but I am angry right now by the way I was treated by her throughout the year and especially now when she did her little tag team clothesline move on me last week with her new boyfriend. I need just a small ounce of revenge to make me feel like she didn't have the last word.

Of course I don't mean anything physical. I'm not violent. But I am talking about one little psychological ploy if she should decide to play with me again. I'm not going back into her playground if that should happen. Here's what I have in mind. I know, before I tell you, that you'll probably tell me that I'm just inviting more problems with her, but I've always been one who needs to get in the last word.

Here's what I have in mind. I will never meet with her again. But if she should reach out with me and call me, I might let her tell me all about what happened, how the other guy isn't me, all the other lies that she has used in the past and how she wants me back. After listening to her, I intend to tell her that I'm not interested. I have a new girlfriend; a woman who I dated about six years ago, who I called as soon as Patty left me in the park after she split with me. That we have already been to bed and we are not in need of a third party.

Here is why I figure it will have the effect for which I am hoping.

If she thinks I have a girlfriend, I don't think she'll pursue me. One of those times when she tried to get back with me after having left me for four weeks, I told her I was seeing someone else for lunch, which I was, but it was a business lunch. She panicked and wrote me a few emails asking me not to see the woman she thought I was seeing and she went through the whole litany of how much she loved me, etc. I never saw such panic in someone like that before. My guess is that her panic was based on the idea that I left her playground and it didn't seem like she was going to control me and have fun with me again.

So it bothers her if she isn't the only game in town. And that's my revenge. I can split with her in my own mind, knowing that I beat her at her own game.

Again, if she should come back. And I think that she might. Her new boyfriend said that he is 43. I looked him up. He's 50 to 54. Though that may not bother her as for the age, it might mean that there is a lot more that he hasn't told her and I have a feeling that she is going to be in for a rude awakening and sooner than I think once they meet. I look forward to leaving her out in the cold!

My question for you is do you think it will have the effect that I'm seeking in as much as she might feel that she lost it all through her own deceptive practices? Or will she just not care and move to the next one without any regret?

Based on what you told me, what do you think will happen?

I understand that you will not endorse game playing, but it's my way of getting rid of her in my head, once and for all. I guess we have to do what seems to work best for us. And after thinking about this idea over and over again and realizing I'm completely disgusted with her I believe this will work for me. Again, I know it's game playing, but I never realized it was all a game to her until now and I'm pissed off. I just figure it's my turn, briefly.

What do you think? Be kind, but truthful, of course.

One other thing, you are like a good friend to me and I'm grateful that your there. Thanks,

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.
Hi Bart,

I'm glad to be here for you and support you through this. Relationships are not easy to navigate on your own.

I understand your need for revenge. Anyone who has been hurt feels the need to get back at the other person so they can stop feeling so low and feel better again. Most everyone wants justice. And getting back may make you feel better, for a while. Then the same feeling will come back.

Patty most likely has a personality disorder. When someone has a personality disorder, they keep the same pattern of behavior no matter what happens, unless they gain insight and see that they need help. Patty may feel bothered by what you choose to do with her, but it probably will not stop her behavior. She may react because she is not in control of the game, but she most likely will move on fairly quickly.

You are right to say that endorsing revenge is not something I am willing to do, but you have to make your own decision. And as long as you do not intend to hurt anyone, it is your choice. But I encourage you to take this a step further and look inside yourself to see why you feel the need to get back at Patty. That is the key to why you keep the relationship going, no matter how much she hurts you. And that would give you the power to feel better about yourself and stay away from Patty, at the same time.

Kate
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

It didn't take long for her to write to me. Got her first email not long after I wrote to you again. I'm going to simply cut and paste what was written to each other, but I did what I wanted to do which I believe will keep her away from me from now on. And it will give her something to think about especially as Saturday approaches. You'll understand what I'm saying after you read the few emails that were written. Frankly I had no mercy as I don't think she deserved it, but I know that this is the best way to get her out of my life. I will not pursue her as I have because the damage she did to me was very hard for me. It is too vivid in my memory how I was treated by her and her new boyfriend who evidently may not be her new boyfriend any longer which is why I think she wrote to me to apologize. I get her now. I understand her now after our conversations Kate.

Here they are. I'd like your opinion of what was said, etc.

It's bonus time for you, though I don't have a lot of money, I can give you something extra for all your help and patience.

Here they are in the order they were written:

PATTY:

Just wanted to say I'm sorry. I've really hurt you and don't blame you for you for all of the evil things you think of me or said to me. I deserve them. I don't think I have ever done such a hurtful thing to anyone before. Believe it or not. The truth is your a good person. You have always tried to show me you loved and cared about me and for that I am grateful. This is not an attempt to get us back together only to say that I am truely sorry. Hope all goes well with you and your wife.

BART:

You did hurt me enough to seek some counseling, not with a pro, but with a woman I dated about six years ago before I met my present wife. I couldn't tell my wife about what you did to me so I called her about a half hour after we left the park. Her name is XXXXX XXXXX she is Brazilian, just a little older than you. I might have mentioned her to you in the past. She wanted to marry me back then if I divorced my second wife but I wasn't quite ready at the time.

Anyway, I may be going overnight to do a job in East Hampton, NY about four hours away this Saturday and she is going with me so it all worked out. You got to be with a new guy and I am getting back with a past girlfriend who cares about me and loved me a lot. I loved her at the time so we have a new beginning.

Yes, you did hurt me, but you didn't hit me with a knock out punch.

No, I don't accept your apology. Live with what you did to me after my only real offense was to love you way too much. Sorry, but no free passes from me.

You and your boyfriend knew what you were doing from Wed through Sunday and you did a tag team clothesline on me. You went behind my back like high school children, shared what I said and did for those days and you lied your ass off like the woman you really are. Nice going. Am I angry at you and do I hate you? Yes. But I also feel sorry for you. You could have been with me, but you chose him. Ask him if he will leave his wife and kids and home to be with you, like I would have, if you get caught and kicked out by your husband. Wonder what his answer will be. You see, you and your friend are cut from the same cloth. I looked him up in the white pages. If he is the same XXXXX XXXXX that I found that is with you now and lives st 505 South English Creek Road and his wife's name is XXXXX XXXXX he isn't 43 like you told me. The book had him at age 50 to 54. Both of you are cut from Burlap. And if he isn't the same guy he is still like you. I've scraped both of you of my shoe and out of my mind.

So now that I got that out of my system, I'm glad that your email isn't an attempt to get me back. First, Solange and I had something very special once and I think we're going to have it again. Second, I can't think of anything more distasteful than to be with you again.

Enjoy each other....you deserve one another, But I'll thank you at the same time because if it hadn't been for your miserable behavior towards me over the past year and especially during the past week, I would never have thought to call Solange and get back together with her.

Have a great time with your partner in crime.

I know I'm going to enjoy my rekindled relationship.

Finally, to coin a phrase that you used on new when you wanted to be hurtful....back off!

Bart

PATTY:

so that just proves you were cheating on me for a while. To call her a half hour after me and make over night plans. You've been in touch with her for a while. You can't lie about that one. I have never met Michael in person apparently his neighbors wife wants to go to bed with him and so I have backed off. I'm not with anyone nor do I care to be with anyone.
have a nice life I hope she is everything your looking for in a woman. It sounds like she is.

BART:

Never talked to her before Sunday until you treated me like crap. I never cheated on you....ever. I am not like you. And from what you just wrote to me you were pursuing Michael. So you wrote your email after you got info about Michael and his neighbor and you really wanted to get back with me until the next time. Right? Not this time. No more games for me. Too bad you didn't figure that out before you treated me like shit. You blew it.

PATTY:

I'm not looking to get back with you and Michael brought it up to me. When he told me that I told him he might not want to do that because he would lose a good friend (his neighbor) and that he would have too many awkward moments that would follow. After that I knew I didn't really want to go there with him. Just like if you slept with this girl I would never want you back. It all doesn't matter now your happy and I am happy for you. I do hope things work out for you...I really do. Bye and good luck.

BART:

You chose your poison. He had to come between us and you had to deceive me for over a month. And you listened to him. Unbelievable.




So Kate, what do you think? I think that she kind of broke up with him or who knows, but she wanted me to come back to her playground and I had to say, I'm not coming back, in my own words. I hope she got the message now that I'm finished with her.

I think you're right, she will go to the dating web sites right away or try to get back with this other guy Michael, right away.

Either way I hope it's finished.

As for my own motivation, I think that perhaps I wanted a girlfriend because my marriage was not what it was when we were living together. I have had sex once in three years with my wife and a store we opened, now closed due to lack of business after two years put pressure on us and had us arguing with each other all the time. It was a nightmare.

When my wife and I were living together for the first two years, we were happy, sexual, laughed a lot and enjoyed each other in every possible way. That ended abruptly three years ago. I would like it back and I think that may be the reason I was going after Patty. Not that she was giving me what I wanted, but I worked hard at the relationship and I guess I didn't want to see it just end.

That's about it. Can you give me your input, again. Thanks.

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.
Hi Bart,

It sounds like she might be moving on from your relationship. You did tell her what you felt and it may have been enough to get her to seek out someone else who is willing to do what she needs in order to be in a relationship.

It also sounds like she was pretending to be very hurt. She made many jabs at you in the beginning about you thinking she was evil and pointed out how bad she is. And she tried to make it seem that her current boyfriend is not with her anymore, after you told her that he was not what she thought he was. But it is hard to tell what is truth and what is not because she is probably manipulating the entire conversation to her advantage. So what she truly feels and thinks is not going to ever be clear, most likely.

It is good that you have moved on though. This seemed to be a toxic relationship and was probably only going to get worse. Working on your relationship with your wife and improving your situation is a great place to put your energies!

Kate
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Well Kate, knowing Patty one can never be sure if its over, but I accomplished a couple of things. I gave her back what she gave me. I told her what I thought of her in a rational way. She laced into me at the park when she broke up with me. Second, I interjected a third party from my end of things which, by get letters she obviously didn't like. It showed her she had no more influence on me and that I find someone else more appealing who was giving me something that she didn't give me....love and caring. Kate, the woman does exist but I never asked her to go anywhere with me. She is a friend. And finally I told her its over and I'm thinking that Saturday night is going to be especially tough on her she thinks that Solange and I are in bed. This is what she did to me for a whole year and much worse last week. Revenge feels so good.

Thanks Kate....I'll let you know what else happen.s. In the meantime after I send my reply I'll hit accept....thanks do much....Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

I am glad you are feeling better.

I did not receive the accept so you if want me to, I can forward your thread to the moderators so they can process it for you.

Kate

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Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Kate,

This will be the last time that I write to you regarding my ex girlfriend, Patty, I assure you.

I will make a long story short, but since last in communication with you, I did take her back, briefly. But, I didn't trust her any longer since the issue with the guy named Michael who she was going to dump me for, therefore I looked into what she had been doing on dating web sites. What I found out was the ultimate betrayal. I found out the following:

When I met her in June 2011, she promised that she would not be on any dating web sites after we were going out together. In late July, I found her on one entitled, POF, but I deleted her profile, with her permission, and that was supposed to be it. Throughout the year, she promised she was not on any web sites like that.

This guy Michael, she found on OKCupid, but I thought that she was only on for a couple of months at a time when we broke up, but she was supposed to get off of it when she "got rid of Michael" and came back to me.

After a week, I asked her about it and she was reluctant to get off of it. I got curious, again, and looked into it. I found a web site that told me that she had been on OKCupid, since Aug. 5, 2011. That's nearly the entire year that we were supposedly going out together. It's also the year that she broke up with me 18 times and gave me a hard time about seeing me. The bulb lit up and I finally saw the light.

First I was angry that I was so damn stupid about it. I have to simply say that I think I went through a mid life crisis that no man should ever go through.

Second, I realized that she had been lying to me throughout the entire year so that she could communicate with other men and my guess is that she met other men at times and who knows what she did when she met them?

I told her at different times during the year, that if she didn't want to be with me then she could leave and that would be it. It would save me the problems that I actually did face during the year because of her manipulation. But she kept stringing me along throughout the entire year, always coming back and telling me what I wanted to hear, that she loved me, that she missed me, that she made a mistake and then in a few days or weeks, she would be gone again. My guess was that she was off and running with someone new during those times and then would come back to me as I was her safety net.

It was about as heartless as I've ever seen. It was every negative one can conjure up about another human being. I felt used and somewhat abused. I realized, when I found out what she had done, conclusively, that she was totally opposite of what I had hoped she was. And I realized how right you were with your analysis throughout all the time that I've been writing to you, since last October, if you can believe it.

Facts don't lie, but Patty always lied. It was all about her and about no one else.

I seriously have doubts that her husband ever found out about us not just once, but twice, as she stated. I believe that every time she met someone on line who she wanted to meet, she got rid of me for a while, like she attempted to do with this guy Michael, and as you once said, when it got old or she was tired of the new guy, she would come back to me. As she said a few weeks ago, I was like "home" to her or safe.

So what I did, on July 3 was to declare my independence. Great timing. I told her to meet me at our usual meeting spot the day before. I recently purchased another phone for her, but it was too expensive for me to leave it with her and I wouldn't give her the convenience to use a phone I bought for her to communicate with someone else. The service has been discontinued. Thank God it was a no contract service.

When I met her I simply walked over to her car, and asked for my phone. She hesitated and looked away for a few seconds. I asked her for it again. She handed it to me and said something to the effect of me having the last word. I had nothing left to say to her. There was no coming back from what I found out. I was looking at her as if she was dirt, unclean, soiled and miserable, like a bug. It was finally the last straw so I said to her, "No last word, I'm done!" I took the phone and left. It's the last time I saw her and talked to her.

I immediately blocked her regular cell phone from calls and texts and blocked her husbands number too, just in case. I also blocked her land line house phone. I also blocked her on Facebook from getting in touch with me and blocked her from texting me on a game we used to play call Word Scrabble. I then blocked her emails from coming through. The only way she can reach me again would be to use another phone, but at that point, I would simply hang up, I am so disgusted not just with her, but with myself for having bought into her game.

I think about her every day, but not in a way that I used to and less each time. I think negatively about her and wonder how I allowed myself to become so wrapped up with her game of coming and going. I mean I hadn't had sex with her more than three times in five or six months so the attraction wasn't sex. She constantly gave me a hard time when I did want to see her and she gave me excuses all the time. She never changed. She didn't respect me. She always lied, manipulated and was non caring.

She really wasn't all that good looking though cute and she couldn't hold a candle to my wife who I have rediscovered for real now. Thank God. When I think that I nearly broke up my marriage, back in late August, for Patty, I think how stupid could I have been? I've realized that my wife is beautiful, physically, loving, forgiving, always wanting to do things for me, like taking me to dinner last night. And my wife would step in front of a bullet to protect me. So what did I see in Patty who was just the opposite?

I have to contribute my behavior with Patty as another, late, midlife crisis. That's all I can think of. I was getting older at the time and I guess I wanted a last hurrah with a younger woman. It has had it's cost.

Your thoughts Kate. And thanks for all of your help.

I'm cured....for real this time. I've seen the light. And once the light of truth was shining on Patty, like all cockroaches, she ran for cover which in her case, she had nothing to say. She was caught one hundred per cent. And I think that she was stunned that I found, not only that she was on web sites, but I found the precise date she posted a profile and I found out what she said on the site on OKCupid.

I can only feel that I did her husband and my wife an injustice. I can never tell either one of them what happened, but I will make it up to my wife and I will pray for her husband, because he will need as much prayer as he can get while living with Patty.

Hope to hear from you soon Kate. By the way, I'm giving your name to a woman I know who is having similar problems with a lover. Incredible that I put myself through all of this.

Thanks,

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Hi Bart, it's good to hear from you.

Before I can answer, we need to transfer your new question onto a new thread. JA has changed it's rules and no longer allows more than one question and one answer/accept per thread. If you just want to start a new thread and say Hi Kate or something like that, I can manually transfer your new question. Sorry for the trouble.

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Yes Kate, I'd like to have a new thread. Just don't know how to do it. Can you do it using what I already wrote to you?

It was easier the other way.

Good to hear from you.

Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.

Bart,

It's just like if you asked a new question on JA. I'm not sure how that works because I cannot see the screens you use. If you have trouble, you can contact the moderators to assist you. Once you start a new question, I can transfer what you wrote here over to the new thread.

Kate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I just asked the question in two parts Kate. I deer there is a limit on characters. I asked it of you. Hope you get it. Will try again later if this doesn't work.

Thanks...Bart
Expert:  Kate McCoy, M.Ed, NBCC, LPC replied 2 years ago.
Ok, I will check if the question came through and answer you on the new one.

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