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Is there any evidence of successfully treating the madonna-whore

 
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  • Answered by:Dr. Mark
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Customer Question

Is there any evidence of successfully treating the madonna-whore complex?

 

Optional Information:
Gender: Male
Age: 46

Submitted: 569 days and 2 hours ago.
Category: Mental Health
Value: $55
Status: CLOSED
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Expert:  Dr. Mark replied 569 days and 2 hours ago.

Hi! You know, to give you the best answer, I think I should ask you a few questions first that will help define the problem and the situation.


It's not that easy in our day, when Freudian psychoanalysis is not so prominent to find anyone who really would be diagnosed with Madonna/whore complex. So let's see what your situation is first. Okay?

Are you married? How long? What is the relationship like?

What makes you think you have this complex? What is your behavior that led you to this identification?

How long have you had this behavior/drive?

Are you getting any treatment right now for any problems? If so, what type? How is it going?

If not, when was the last treatment? What type of treatment was it? Was it helpful?

Any extra information that will help, feel free to share.

Please go ahead and post your response. I'm going to be going into therapy sessions in my office soon, so if I can't answer before that, would later today be okay for me to respond?


 


Dr. Mark

Customer replied 569 days and 2 hours ago.

I've been married for 16 years, and have 2 children (8 and 11). The sex between my wife and I was good while we were dating, but soon after we married, my sex drive started to rapidly decline.

My wife is sexy, and beautiful, and we both love each other dearly, but over the years, I concentrated almost all of my attention to our kids, and ignored her needs. It's to the point now, that we stopped having sex altogether, and my only outlet is porn (which, to be honest I could take or leave (also upsetting)). Let me assure you I am 100% hetro-sexual (in case your were going to ask)

My wife admitted to me the other day, that she is having an affair, and I feel myself falling apart.

I'm starting to see a psychiatrist, and really starting to get to the bottom of my problem. I realize I should have done this years ago.

The Madonna-whore complex touches on the relationship with one's mother. I was extremely close to my mother, and she meant the world to me. She was killed in an auto accident when I was 17. This lead me to believe this is all related.

My marriage is hanging by string, and any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

My wife

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Expert:  Dr. Mark replied 569 days and 2 hours ago.

Thank you for the added information. It helps a lot. I believe I can now be of help with this issue.

First, let me say I can imagine how distressing this situation must be for you. You have realized that your marriage needed more attention than you were giving it to survive let alone thrive. And now it is really threatened. That you are starting therapy is very important. I am a bit hesitant to give a detailed answer because I do not want to step in between you and your therapist. So, I would like you to take my answer to therapy and discuss it there to make sure you are not working in two separate directions, okay?

I am not a Freudian psychoanalyst, but I work in a psychodynamic orientation and I feel confident you would not be diagnosed with Madonna/whore complex. That disorder is much more similar to the movies about Mafiosi: you know the ones with the big Mafioso boss who has a wife who is pure and no one had better touch and gets listened to like the matriarch and then he has his mistresses on the side who are the sex buddies for him. Except even that is not a real description of the complex, where the wife is NOT a sex object at all. But it is closer than your situation is.

Your situation is one of atrophy. Not so much sexual atrophy as LOVE atrophy. And sex went along with it for the ride. Is it because of your attachment to your mother? Maybe, but more likely because of other aspects of your growing up in conjunction with your relationship with your mom.

The point is, though, that you allowed the marriage to wither and your wife made the ultimate statement that marriage is not supposed to be like this after that many years. Is this what is supposed to happen? And the answer is what you know it is: no. And she knew it and wasn't willing to accept it. And so she took one way to both get some relief for herself and to send a message. That's not what's supposed to happen. Well, then, how DOES it happen?

From what you write, the sense you give is that what happened is atrophy. Atrophy is what happens to muscles when they are not exercised and used regularly. They lose tone and eventually lose ability to activate. LOVE is a muscle. And love can atrophy.

It slowly wears out until you can't find how to access it any more. I don't know if she's preparing for divorce. I hope not. If so you can share this with her from me: here's a truth that is SO IMPORTANT:


Even if you two divorce, each of you will have to start EXERCISING your love muscles to feel what you don't feel now! It WILL be easier because it will be new faces and new bodies, but they will become familiar soon enough. The truth, though, is that it will take exercising your love muscles in new relationships. So why not try with the person you've each already devoted so much effort to?

Let's make a good faith effort to see if the ship can be righted. Okay?

Therefore, I want you to print out my answer and take it and her to a Starbucks or other quiet place and discuss it and commit to the program to try to make your marriage a success. You're going to start with a book. You'll get 2 copies, one for each of you. Each night you're both going to read a few pages or a chapter and do the exercise there if there is one in those pages. Every other night, or at most, every third night sometimes, you will get together, either at home or at the Starbucks and talk about what you read. What you think of it, what it inspired in you. Make notes in the margins. And each one talk about the subject of the pages and what you think. That's your assignment and dates.

The book: It's by the foremost researcher into relationships in our day, John Gottman. He's famous for being interviewed on TV and being able to tell when a couple will get divorced within 5 minutes and having 90% accuracy. I've studied his therapy and use his therapy in my practice and that's why I'm concerned that you two do this. So the book is the Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. You can get it cheaply online or see if you can get it locally to save time.

Now, a secret: the magic is not in the book. The exercises and Gottman's insights will be very useful and important for the two of you. But the magic is in the act of working together on your marriage! The two of you paying attention every single day to your marriage and making effort every single day: that's the magic ingredient in great marriages that GROW in love as the years pile up. I want to make sure you both understand this. Because that's the key to our work here. Okay?

We humans are not built to tolerate emotional vacuums. When we have an unfulfilled emotional need, and we want that need fulfilled, and we don't find a way to fulfill it, we have created a vacuum. Our emotional selves feel the void and want it filled. So we feel the sense of "missing" something and life seems unfulfilled. You both seem to be in the throes of this vacuum. That is what this program was about.

If this work gets you two to first base but not all the way, if it isn't a home run, then consider couples therapy along with your individual therapy: the two of you MUST work on how emotional connections are made and maintained. The two of you together need help in learning how to make your marriage more emotionally intimate and positive. There are two types of therapies I recommend strongly for you two to consider.

One type of therapy is called Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy. Why? Because it focuses on how there have been created emotional barriers and how to get through those barriers. Please consider it before you take other action.

Here is the web address for their therapist finder:

http://iceeft.com/findtherapist.php

On the website you'll also find excellent books by the founders, Sue Johnson and Leslie Greenberg.

The other therapy is Gottman therapy. Yes, the same Gottman as the book above. Seek a therapist who is certified by the Gottman Institute. Here's their web address for finding a therapist:


http://www.gottman.com/49824/Find-A-Therapist.html

Why? Because his couples therapy model is the most straightforward model available. I hope that therapists working in these types of couples therapies are listed for your area. If not, find a couples therapist who makes you feel confident in his/her skills and values.

Again, I am giving you this answer in the expectation that you will discuss it with your psychiatrist to make sure that he/she is in agreement with this program for you and your wife to move forward. I believe that this type of work together helps a husband who's emotionally shut down much more quickly than just individual therapy alone. But you clearly may need both.

I wish you the very best in this and in the future!

Please remember to click the green accept button because: even though you have made a deposit, I do not get paid for my time unless you press ACCEPT. Feel free to continue the discussion as my goal is to get you the best answer possible. You can continue the discussion even after pressing ACCEPT. Feel free to continue the discussion; my goal is to get you the best answers possible. Bonuses are always appreciated! If I can be of further help with any issue, just put "for Dr. Mark" in the front of your new question, and I'll be the one to answer it. All the best, XXXXX XXXXX

Expert TypePsychotherapist
Category: Mental Health
Pos. Feedback: 98.5 %
Accepts: 4335
Answered: 9/14/2011

Experience: Dr. Mark is a PhD in psychology in private practice

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