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Doctor Blake
Doctor Blake, Psychologist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 146
Experience:  Ph.D., Ed.S., NCSP Clinical Psychologist; 15+ years of experience; dual licensure
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This is for psychologists who have administered IQ tests to

Customer Question

This is for psychologists who have administered IQ tests to determine if someone has LD.. I took the Queendom IQ test which, according to Psychology Today is scientifically verified. It's kind of confusing how long your supposed to take the test, the directions say to give yourself about an hour, but the first page of the test says 109 questions...40 minutes. So, when I took it I gave myself 40 minutes and didn't even get to the other half of the questions. So, I continued taking the test and gave myself 20 more minutes and still didn't finish. Each section of the test is chunked, so if I didn't get to a section I'd basically get a zero. Or, at best 50%. So, i took another 10-15 minutes to finish the entire test and moved quickly through the last parts. So, my overall IQ was 120. My verbal was 140, my math was 110, spacial was 108, but my puzzles was a 93!! I found that section incredibly difficult. Could this indicate NVLD?

It did take me 10-15 minutes longer to finish the test...so about an hour and 15 mins. The test said to set aside "about an hour"

The reason I am so concerned is because I have had issues with work and keeping jobs. I make careless mistakes a lot. I was fired for stocking shelves too slowly at a retail store about a year ago. I get very overwhelmed easily. I have GAD.

And, I saw my old SAT scores from 1992 and saw that they were far below average and according to the IQ comparison site, it correlates with an IQ of 93!! My verbal score was 480 and the math was 370 or 380!! Math has always been difficult for me, I wonder if I'm dyscalculic or have LD? If someone does have LD does this affect their SAT scores and skew the idea of SATs correlating with IQ?

I took an IQ test from Barnes and Noble and scored a 120. I took the same test about 14 years ago and got the same score. I received a 21 on the wonderlic.

Any insights to all these questions will be appreciated. I'm also curious to find out if someone with LD would do poor on SATs and that it would not reflect general IQ.

A bonus will be added for an expert who has experience with IQ testing and LD, and who can give me a general idea of where my IQ might lie and if there could possibly be LD.
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Mental Health
Expert:  Doctor Blake replied 4 years ago.

Good morning, and thanks for writing to JA.

 

To answer your first question(s) about expertise - I diagnose Learning Disorders for a living and have administered over 7,000 individual assessments and diagnosed many individuals with learning struggles, including NLD. So, all that being said...

 

...it is important to recognize that an IQ test from Psychology Today or Barnes and Noble or even the SAT is not as reliable or valid as a thorough cognitive evaluation conducted by a Licensed Mental Health Professional (LMHP). AMong the LMHPs, only Psychologists are licensed to administer and interpret valid and reliable assessments of cognitive ability.

 

So, there are two reasons why I can't really comment very intelligently on the scores you provided. While I appreciate that you have done your own research and have some very valid and important questions, here are the reasons why I can't tell you what your IQ is or interpret the results you provided...

 

#1: It is unprofessional and unethical to diagnose over the internet. This is true for most/all psychological disorders, including learning disorders, but especially for NLD. NLD is a complex neurodevelopmental disorder that needs to be distinguished from among a host of other disorders (including autism spectrum disorders, Aspergers, other forms of LD, ADHD, and various anxiety/habit disorders). The only was that such a diagnosis can be validly (and ethically) given is after a LMHP has conducted a thorough, individualized assessment with you in a face-to-face setting.

 

#2: The assessments you provide score for are difficult to interpret because they are not considered valid and reliable measures of cognitive ability. When a Psychologist administers, for example, the Wechsler (a common individualized cognitive assessment), I know the exactly how it was administered because it is standardized. Very little variation occurs among administrations - which is why psychologists can report, with 95%-98% accuracy, where an individual is functioning cognitively. This "standard error of measurement" is not provided among non-standardized tests... which makes their validity and reliability questionable. Here's the botXXXXX XXXXXne: I'm not sure what your test results mean because I don't have professional confidence in the tests. Your SAT results may be revealing - but remember that the SATs are most frequently administered in groups or on a computer - which is very different from a standardized, individualized cognitive assessment conducted with a licensed psychologist.

 

All this being said - you have some excellent questions - and it's clear that you've done your homework! Please, check to see if there is a licensed Psychologist in your area who is familiar with conducting in-depth psychological assessments, including an in-depth cognitive profile. Some might suggest you see a neuropsychologist, but this might be overkill. This individual would be able to (a) provide you with a valid and reliable estimate of your IQ; (b) more importantly, learn about specific areas of strength/weakness in your cognitive profile (because IQ alone tells you almost nothing); (c) explore diagnostic questions such as NLD; (d) rule out other diagnoses that might or might not also be clouding the picture.

 

I hope this was helpful. You have made an excellent start - but it really is time to see a psychologist in-person. No psychologist should provide the kinds of answers you're requesting over the internet, I'm afraid... and if s/he did, I would question their professional opinion. You deserve to have some answers, though - and most insurance will cover an in-depth psychological evaluation/assessment.

 

I wish you all the best. Feel free to ask any follow-up questions if you like.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Thanks, XXXXX XXXXX think the SAT might be more on target with an IQ of 93? That's very upsetting to me. If I had a LD wouldn't that skew the results?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I also wanted to know if the tests I took online and the B&N might indicate a ballpark, not completely accurate IQ.
Expert:  Doctor Blake replied 4 years ago.

Sorry... I just got your messages.

 

I don't think that the SAT is necessarily a more accurate "read" of your IQ for several reasons. 1) it doesn't purport to measure IQ to begin with; 2) I don't know the nature of the administration (unlike in an individualized, standardized cognitive assessment; 3) you accurately hit the nail on the head... if you have an underlying LD, the SAT could be skewed due to learning issues. When I said that your SAT results may be more revealing, I meant that only because I know, at least with some degree of confidence, the parameters within which the test was administered and what it purports to measure. Without knowing more about you (and we can only know that through that individual session), there's no real way to put those numbers into context.

 

The other assessments are highly suspect because they have not been developed or administered by a professional under strict standardized protocol. It would be like having your friend take your X-ray and then going to a radiologist to say, "What does this X-ray tell you about my arm?" The radiologist would probably say something very similar to what I'm saying... "if the person who took this picture isn't a licensed radiologist, I can't be certain what this means. Besides the *person* involved, I'm not sure I trust the tool used (x-ray machine) either." That's essentially what I'm saying here.

 

If you had results from an individually administered cognitive assessment along with other pieces of a psychological evaluation, you'd get good quality diagnostic information about LD, NLD, or any of the other diagnostic possibilities I mentioned. Once again, you have some excellent questions - and it's clear you've started to get a move on "getting your homework done..." but the next step, now, is to work one-on-one with a licensed Psychologist. S/he will help you get to the bottom of your questions... get you a valid and reliable diagnostic work-out... and (if you want) help explore options about treatment (if that's necessary).

 

Once again, you're to be commended for getting the ball rolling... but only a face-to-face meeting will be able to take you to the next step of answering the questions you have.

 

I really do wish you the best of luck. If you have further questions about NLD (also abbreviated NVLD), I'd look up the work of Byron Rourke, generally considered one of the "grandfathers" of the disorder.

 

Thanks. <PLEASE CLICK ACCEPT>

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Thanks so much for your clarifications, your detail is very helpful and gives me some things to think about.

I think I have a lot of fears about getting formally tested. I've always been scared that I might be below average intelligence. I've never tested that well. I can't even remember what my GRE scores were but I remember feeling exactly the same way about taking the GRE as I did with the SAT. I felt like I couldn't focus on or absorb what I was reading, that it was not interesting, that I would read and get distracted and try to read again and get distracted again. It felt mentally exhausting to me and too long. And I think with both tests I kind of gave up in some sections and just started guessing. I just didn't even know how to tackle some of the problems. Reading graphs and charts and doing the math was not something I ever really learned as I never made it past Algebra 2 in High School. I do have a Master's and have received almost all A's in my courses.

I took the wonderlic when I worked for a fundraising call center and got a 21. Which is OK I guess, but not really for someone with an education.

I want to get tested but fear I'll get the results and they determine I'm just not all that bright and have a borderline IQ. I think I'd be ruined. My family is full of PhDs and teachers and I feel so stupid sometimes. I do suspect there's something going on...ADHD (nonattentive), NLD, Dycalculia or something. I've struggled in jobs. But I've also dealt with depression and anxiety all my life too. So, it's so hard to tell what's going on. My father told me once he didn't know how I was going to turn out since my mom abused prescription drugs and alcohol when she was pregnant with me. (Thanks Dad.)

Briefly, the problems I have that make me supsect something is off are:

-poor organizational skills
-trouble reading music
-trouble doing math in my head
-making careless mistakes
-transposing numbers
-moving and doing things at a slower speed than others
-getting overwhelmed by multi-tasking and overstimulated in a busy environment to the point where I'm less effective than if I were in a quiet room
-I have to work extra hard to pay attention to detail
-finding things visually

My strengths:
-Good Critical thinking and analytical skills
-very creative
-problem solving skills
-leadership skills
-average to above average writing skills and vocabulary
-good marketing skills
-A thorough and unique way of doing things which either frustrates or impresses.

Any other insights or advice would be great. Thanks for taking time with me and being patient.

Expert:  Doctor Blake replied 4 years ago.

I absolutely understand your reservations about a formal assessment... but I think it's important to know that the process of completing an individualized evaluation is relatively pain-free and, actually, can be kind of enjoyable for some people. Moreover, I think it's important for you to recognize that most psychologists don't "bet the bank" on a single IQ score unless the overwhelming preponderance of evidence suggests that the final composite number is XXXXX! Meaning, most psychologists observe the cognitive assessment carefully - and watch throughout all of your visits - to better understand HOW YOU THINK not just HOW YOU TEST. So, you might get a final number... or you might not. It might mean something, or it might need to be carefully interpreted in the context of WHO YOU ARE. Yes, an IQ estimate is a snapshot of your cognitive profile AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME... and while it is likely a very accurate picture of your cognitive abilities AT THAT TIME, it's important to contextualize WHAT THAT TIME might mean.

 

In other words, "Bobby" might come to see me for an assessment. He's got a very subtle form of delusional/psychotic thinking that isn't readily apparent in our first time together. We get through the cognitive assessment and I begin to wonder... especially when his IQ is much lower than I would have predicted. I conduct some further assessments and find out "WHOA! LOOK AT THAT!!!" I realize that Bobby is psychotic and put the IQ in the context of his overall functioning. Yes, perhaps his IQ reading of 73 was accurate *AT THAT TIME,* - but once I get the full picture - I know how to help to get him to a better place functionally. Then... Bobby can be re-assessed when he's functioning better!

 

That's what an individual assessment will do for you. Please don't put too much stock into one number. (It would be like walking around all day being obsessed about your BMI (Body Mass Index) from your physician. This is only *one measure* of you - and needs to be placed into the context of your overall picture!) Working with the psychologist on an individual basis will get you a sense of where you're functioning now, where you might be able to function if you tweaked some areas, and where you're likely to function like a "super star." Moreover, most psychologists are caring and gentle - and will work with you during the evaluation to help you maximize your own functioning for the assessment itself.

 

I hope this was helpful. I was glad to see that another JA-expert said essentially the same thing I did. I think the rest is up to you now! :) Thanks!

 

<PLEASE CLICK ACCEPT>

Doctor Blake, Psychologist
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 146
Experience: Ph.D., Ed.S., NCSP Clinical Psychologist; 15+ years of experience; dual licensure
Doctor Blake and 3 other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX very helpful. I really appreciate your well-thought out responses. One of my therapists suggested I may have some very mild symptoms of Schitzophrenia, that since I'm in my mid-30's it probably won't develop much further. At that time, I reported I heard faint murmurings when I would go to bed at night...I haven't heard this at all in a few years. I sometimes wonder if I have some mental issues that get in my way cognitively. My mom was diagnosed Schitzoaffective and her brother was very schitzophrenic. Sometimes i feel my mind is disorganized and cluttered and it makes it hard to just think clearly. I do have GAD and take an anti-anxiety med which helps me A LOT. But, I'm not able to work really, I have my own business...anyway...thanks for all your feedback. What I'm getting from you is that someone's mental state can also influence test scores, is that correct

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I noticed your in Cincinnati. I graduated from UC with a degree in Anthropology and lived in Cinci for 5 years!
Expert:  Doctor Blake replied 4 years ago.

Wow! I came here to Cincinnati to do my Post-doc here at Children's. I've gotten to know a number of people here who attended UC. Great school.

 

Best of luck to you!

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