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Ask Norman M. Your Own Question

Norman M.
Norman M., Principal psychotherapist in private practice. Newspaper contributor, over 2000 satisfied clients on JA
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 2543
Experience:  ADHP(NC), DEHP(NC), ECP, UKCP Registered.
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I have a friend , art mentor who is an artist (Painting) who

Customer Question

I have a friend , art mentor who is an artist (Painting) who has led me into the business. I am 50 years old he is like 62. He is a national artist and has been a wildlife artist for 35 years. I found my gift 4 years ago and I have done extrodinarily well. In fact I have left my day job and am doing my art business full time.

My friend (Dave) and I and our family's have become close and frankly I love the guy , like a brother or perhaps a DAD and I know he loves us too. Here is the problem... I recently had an issue with him and I was angry about what had happen where I felt he was not forwarning me of an issue. BotXXXXX XXXXXne, when I confronted him, he biginns to express himself in a very hateful and hurtful way. For some reason he has to express how much better his work is than mine. He exagerats by saying he sells 90% more of the same subject than I. Which is so not true but. He puts down a lot of my work and exagerates any little issue. This last time I called him on his eg
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Mental Health
Expert:  Norman M. replied 5 years ago.
Hi Bart - sorry to hear that you relationship with Dave has gone so badly astray. It would help me to respond if you could tel me:

What was the issue you had with him?
Why should he have forewarned you?
Is it still an issue?
Had everything been OK up until then?

It odes seem that for some reasons, he feels threatened by you, if he feels he has to prove how superior (in his own mind), and putting down your work not exactly what you would expect from a friend and mentor. Its quite common in the art world that people are very sensitive about the quality of their work - after all, it is such a deep and personal expression - so that to be dismissive or rude is rather odd behaviour from one artist to another.

I awit your answers with interest, but meantime, try not to inflame the situation by making remarks about his ego and so on - that is probably the very aprt of him that feels threatened!
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
This was about a buisness decision that affected me and involved him. He had really nothing to do with the action of it, but he was aware of it and in fact he would benefit from it at my loss. Kinda messy. To help you understand the realtionship, I can only say that it like loving your brother or Dad but it sooo darn hard to love them.

He should have forewarned me because we are friends or more than. When it went down, I knew Dave was not directly involved but I he could have picked up th phone and give me a heads up. To last Sunday was hard. I had to deal with the Business action as 1 issue and 2. The Freindship. At this point, both are back to normal. But with caution. Everything was ok up to now. I have seen acitons that would indicate to me that he some how views me as a threat. Such as, he does not wish my work to be on disply in his gallery. I can only suspect that he is threatened. I know that is not because it's bad, because I KNOW its good (Humbly speaking of course) We have bumped heads in the past and in every case, he starts firing off these emails full of hate and MAJOR ego trips. ANd I rally mean BIG big EGO trips. I will bring up any little issues that I may have had in the past with a curator or organizaor and emblish it and expand it and then throw it in my face again. Perhaps I should send you one of his emails. that would be perfect.... what email address should I use ??

I want to know how to handle this, how to help him not do this. I know he loves us and I know he dose not like the friction.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
(KEEP IN MIND THAT MOST OF THESE SHOTS HE TAKES AT ME ARE NOT FOUNDED- HE THROWS THIS STUFF OUT THERE TO ATTMEPT TO JUSTIFY HIS ACTIONS OR SOMEHOW CREASTE A CASE FOR HIS INNOCENTS.) i HOPE YOU GET ALL OFTHE EMAIL


Dave,

Did you read my email at all ??? I already told you that I may have used the word whining? At the time, I was upset, very upset and I told you that if I did use the word it would have been in non derogatory way and No I don't recall saying specifically "you were whining", read my email. If you want to corner Cyndi then do so.   I just explained to you why Rocky was upset. READ MY EMAIL DAVE !!! NOBODY WAS SHUNNING YOU. SHE WANTS TO CALL YOU RIGHT NOW... PERHAPS THAT WOULD BE BEST, XXXXX XXXXX LIKE HER TO CALL YOU AND EXPLAIN THAT SHE WAS NOT SHUNNING YOU?    EMAILS DON'T SEEM TO WORK.

IN MY EMAIL, I SAID I DON'T CARE ABOUT YESTERDAY. I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHO SAID WHAT AND SO ON. DID YOU READ MY EMAIL. I SPENT A LONG LONG TIME CHOOSING MY WORDS CAREFULLY AND FROM MY HEART ON THAT MESSAGE.    I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WERE NOT INVOLVED LAST WEEK. THAT IS NOT WHAT I WAS TOLD. I WAS SPECIFICALLY TOLD AND UNDERSTOOD THAT BILL INITIATED A CALL TO YOU. THAT YOU DID NOT INITIATE A CALL TO HIM AND IT WAS DECIDED TO MOVE ME. BUT........... IT DOES NOT MATTER. AT THIS POINT THE HORSE IS DEAD.

FRANKLY I HATE EMAIL. ROCK AND JACOB ARE NOT SHUNNING YOU DAVE ! I SWEAR. HAVE YOU FELT HURT BEFORE ??????????? IF IT WAS UNWARRANTED IF IT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING IF WAS WHAT EVER, SHE WAS TOO EMOTIONAL TO TALK TO YOU AND SHE WAS AVOIDING IT FOR THE TIME. THE BOTXXXXX XXXXXNE IS WE LOVE YOU AND LETS JUST MOVE ON. PLEASE READ MY LAST EMAIL DAVE !!! DAVE YOU ARE ASKING QUESTIONS THAT I ADDRESSED IN THE LAST EMAIL.

Can we just get together and go golfing and if we want to talk about it and we can face to face. Email is not a good way to do this Dave.   LISTEN TO ME PLEASE !!   NOBODY IS DISSING YOU. THERE IS NO MEAN FEELINGS HERE DAVE, I AM NOT HAVING MY SON SHUN YOU AND THAT IS OFFENSIVE TO SAY, AS A MATTER OF FACT JACOB TOLD ME THAT HE LOOKED AT YOU AND HE SAID HE SMILED AT YOU AND THAT YOU WERE LOOKING WITH YOUR ARMS CROSSED WITH YOUR SUN GLASSES ON AND LOOKED IRRITATED. I TOLD HIM THAT HE PROBABLY WAS LOOKING AT SOMETHING ELSE. I DON'T THINK IT IS FAIR FOR YOU TO SAY THOSE THINGS. AGAIN, ROCKY WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YOU SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT SHE WAS EMOTIONAL AT THE TIME. ( WE ARE ALL GOING THROUGH A LOT HERE AT HOME, TRUST ME, SHE WOULD HAVE EASILY FALLEN APART RIGHT THERE AT YOUR BOOTH IF SHE WAS GOING TO CONFRONT YOU AND YOU WOULD HAVE HAD A TEARY EYED LITTLE MEXICAN IN YOUR BOOTH. PLEASE TRUST ME DAVE WHEN I SAY THAT ALL OF THIS IS A RESULT OF HURT FEELINGS.

YOU CLARIFIED A LOT IN YOUR EMAIL AND IT MAKES IT A BIT EASER TO UNDERSTAND AND I EVEN APOLOGIZED, BUT WOULD YOU PLEASE READ MY EMAIL AND UNDERSTAND FROM THIS SIDE AND HOW EASILY WE TOOK IT PERSONALLY AND WERE HURT BASED ON THE INFORMATION PROVIDED.

LETS GO GOLFING OK ?? WE CAN TALK ABOUT MORE. EMAIL REALLY REALLY SUCKS AND YOU CAN SEE FACIAL EXPRESSION, TEARS, SMILES , YOU CANT HUG, LAUGH , ITS ONLY WORDS.

DAVE...... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LISTEN TO ME. WE LOVE YA AND PLEASE READ MY EMAIL.

By the way. NO I DID NOT DO BETTER. I WAS $300 BELOW LAST WEEK.


BM





From: Dave Bartholet
To: XXXXX XXXXX Bart
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:25 PM
Subject: Re:


Bart, do you deny using the term "whining" when you asked Cyndi "Is Dave whining about me (you Bart) being next to him ( me Dave)? Because if you do, then that means Cyndi is lying and I'll have to talk to her and see if she did in fact hear that correctly as she told me that was the term. This had nothing to do with me. That's what is bothering me. That and your family walking arond the market with their head up their ass. (Just a figure of speech!)   Is their action acceptable? I think not! Now you even have your son shunning me! Un-f**king-beleivable! Because of a wrongful assumption on your part. I was in "freaking" Yellowstone all last week. I learned about this within a hour or so of you. Are you not listening to me. This is the simplest form of English language I know. I'm not a party in this.

Why should I call you on a matter that doesn't have anything to do with me. They said they would handle it. This is between you and them! And I do agree that you and the market would be better off moved to a new location. I learned about the move by email moments before they called you. Your sales when up signifiganlly, right? Hello? What's the problem?

Why didn't you call me Sunday morning instead of that weak-ass-poor-Bart email you sent me about you being "kicked" out of the Wells Fargo block late Sat. night when I was sleeping?   Re-read that email and see if you don't think it doesn't sound a bit 4th grade and pouty. The question is still this why attack me and TRY to make me feal small and a part of this when I wasn't. And why continue it on with you and your family being mean to me for no reason other then a wrongful assumption on your part? Please answer these questions. Because I do not understand, especially when I consider all I have tried to do for you. Why be mean to me over an assumption? And why attaching the term "whining" to my name? Because that's what Cyndi said you did.

REMEMBER THE TRUTH IS IN WHAT YOU FIND, NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO FIND!   here's another one for you;

CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS AND THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT WILL CHANGE!

Study both of these famous quotes over and over, they are life chaging and will serve and your family well!

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: Art by Bart
To:XXX@XXXXXX.XXX
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:26 AM
Subject: Fw:


Dave,

Thanks so much for all the kind words Dave. You always know how to make people feel better. You don't think that the way this whole thing went down that I wouldn't be hurt ?? All that you say makes good sense but why couldn't any of you have this talk with me rather than SURPRISE !   I guess you could have assumed that the discussion was not yours to have but I think it would have been nice for you to talk to me as a friend, don't you? And....There is a big difference between whining and being hurt Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Bartholet
To: XXXXX XXXXX Bart
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:11 AM
Subject: Re:


Bart, According to Cyndi you used the word "whining". When you asked her, "where is this coming from? is Dave whining about me being next to him." Straight up and that is what she said you asked about me. That, I felt was offensive, how you could attach that word to my name? Nothing could be farther from the truth! I never said nothing, I initiated nothing.

To set the record straight, this all started back in Feb. when they courted me to fill Dodge's booth. Bill's first words were that they were going to move you and across the street so that they didn't have 2 wildlife artists next to each other. I said fine, that should work. Then they said that you complained (whined) about moving and asked me again if it would be OK if you stayed next door to me. I said "fine by me", with out hesitation. Then after our first week of being set up next to each other, it was glaring to all, including board members and also vendors, that it didn't look good that we wildlife artists took up a whole Wells Fargo block side by side. They asked me via email (not by phone) about it and I agreed. I also said that I don't have a competition problem with anyone, including you. So I said to them that they can do what seemed best for the market. I even said that you would do better in sales being away from me, and you should have figured that out by now, if you are so worried about making your house payment. Why would you want to be near me? If the public was to look at your animals (heron, cougar, horse) and at my animals, which ones are 90% of your non-relative/friends going to choose to buy? Right? That leaves you selling a hand full of boats, some of which are copyrighted. Why would you want to do that? With a house payment late? Makes no sense.

As far as senority is concerned, you have none. You are deemed a temporary vendor and I am not. I have agreed to do all Sundays and you have implied that you are leaving whenever it is neccessary to do shows. When Bill left the market they wanted a "player" that would fill his space and I made that contract with ASM. It was with the agreement that I have and keep Bill's old space. So, you see, there is no senority card to play on your part. I'm under a contract and you are not. So caution there before you through that one out at anyone.

As far as me answering your email, you sent it to me at 11 pm and I was asleep at that time. I didn't read your email until the next day. As far as talking to Bill or Cyndi or anyone on the phone last week, as you said, that didn't happen. If you remember I was in Montana and Idaho all last week photographing bears. I believe I got an email late Friday night. So this all came from the board and Bill and Cyndi. I didn't move (kick?) you out, but I do agree with the board that it would be in the Market's best interests and your best interest that two wildlife artists were not next door to each other. It's that way in all shows. It's just not done.

The above is all details and relatively a mute point. You have been moved and it's for the better. You probably even did better in sales yesterday. True? What is upsetting to me, still, is the actions or non-actions to me by you and your family. You guys have assumed that I did this and it couldn't be farther from the truth. This is the board's action and your actions, by not being a permanent vendor. Why be mean to me, based on an assumption?

So, my friend, you would be best advised, to put this to bed as soon as possible, and think twice before initiating any rudeness in my direction or assumptions in my directions. Read this carefully, THE TRUTH IS WHAT IT IS, NOT WHAT ONE THINKS IT IS! Now re-read it! Try o make it ork for you in your life! You and your family are all wrong on what the truth really is on this matter. And your actions spoke volumes! Hopefully you understand it better now and don't keep pushing and whining like you did at Ellensburg. There's a reason for you to rememeber those cause and effect results. Think before you speak or assume. And if you really wanted to get to point you should have called me and not written that dumb-assed email about how "poor Bart" got "kicked out" of the Wells Fargo block. What a bunch of shit! Was I supposed to feel guilty about "poor Bart"? You got moved, not kicked out! Come on, play it straight! The SPIN doesn't work on me. You keep forgetting that.

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: Art by Bart
To:XXX@XXXXXX.XXX
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:15 PM
Subject: Fw:


Dave,

I have no idea what your referring to with regards XXXXX XXXXX word whining ?? My discussion with Cyndi was a lot but I don't recall using a word like whining in a derogatory sense anyway. I asked her on the phone, where is this coming from ??? certainly not Dave, he is not going to be whining about me as we do several shows together and were side by side all the time. Lots of people were talking today and I have no control over what comes out of their mouths.

This is how it went down Dave..... literally.   Out of the blue I get a call from Cyndi last night. She informed me that she had bad news and then she dropped the bomb on me. Of course I am wondering why, who, where and everything else. I said why is this happening, did Dave call with concerns, why would he be concerned as we do shows together frequently ??? He didn't say anything to me. After a more in-depth discussion with Cyndi, it was made aware to me that Bill initiated a phone call to you and after the call it was decided that I would need to be moved. So at this point, WHAT WOULD YOU MAKE OF IT ??? I of course countered by saying why is it an issue ?? who has a problem with this ?? and I after having been established at that on the Wells Fargo Block for the last couple years, I simply said to her if Dave has an issue with it then have him move. And that was it.. period.   Again.... I get a call at like 8pm.... "Sorry Bart,   I have bad news, Bill Dodge has decided to move you. The decision was made after a phone call that was initiated by Bill to you. I at first went off on Cyndi and said that this was a bunch of crap and that further more, Bill is putting a wedge between friends in doing so. .... So I got to go to bed thinking about this all night. You obviously were aware of this discussion and you were fully aware of Bill's intentions. As friends Dave, you certainly have the right to refuse what ever decisions they make on your behalf and as friends , you were aware that this was going to happen you could have said, just WAIT A MINUTE, I think I would like to discuss this with Bart first before anything goes down, or you could have just called me first to let know. You could have initiated a phone call , you could have said NO, I will move , You could have said "lets have a meeting" as a friend Dave, you could have done anything other than to say ...... "I WAS A NON-ENTITY IN THIS ACTION" after the fact.    

This morning, it had all night to fester and I waited to see if I would get a call from you. Nothing, you just did nothing and let the cards fall where they may. So yes, I expected more from a friend and I was very emotional this morning. Anger, Frustration, Blood Pleasure was soaring, and the wussy side of me came out a couple times when I just couldn't understand why.   Perhaps that is my fault for expecting to much. Dave.... If I were in your shoes, I would have NEVER EVER let this go down this way. I realize I am not of the same caliber as you, but even in Ilwaco, I made point of asking you straight up, if you would have an issue with my setting up at the market and secondly if you would have a problem if I set up near you and your response was " Hell , set up next to me and we can help each other with breaks" . If this whole action went down without your knowing, then obviously that would be a misconception and the wrong use of the the word "Apparently",   But it was made clear to me that you were aware of this action prior to it going down.   

Yes, I am angry with Bill and Cyndi as I think the whole thing sucks and was handled poorly. Bill is the one going around telling vendors that it was based solely on what Dave can do financially for the market and not about seniority or loyalty to vendors. Well that is not going over well with several vendors as I am sure you can understand as they feel threatened that if something better comes along in the eyes of the market, that they too could loose their spot after building their clientele . That is Bills fault. As for Rocky and Jacob. Rocky is sorry about this morning Dave, but she just like me has had a very difficult time with this today. She looks to you, in her words more like family.   Frankly, she has been much more emotional about this than I and she is hurt. She said to me tonight on the way home, " Honey, he knew you were going to be thrown under a bus and he did nothing to save you or to let you know the bus was coming".   She wanted me to tell you, that she really couldn't look at you without loosing it. You don't want to see a little Mexican falling apart in front of your booth ...... Dave, Astoria is my little business that Rocky and I and even Jacob have built at the market over the last 3 years which accounts for like 30% of my total income. You yourself said that I seemed to have tapped into this market and to continue to nurture it.

This couldn't have happen at a worse time too. I told you yesterday that we are down $2k for the month vs last year. Every show/event I have done this month has flopped with the exception of the market. I don't want to cry all the blues to you, but the house payment is 3 weeks late, the Truck as I told you blew a transmission and is now setting in a shop waiting for us to pay $1750 to get out.   We have one vehicle running and I have to take Rocky to work everyday and pick her up.   We have a 1/2 block of cheese and a gallon of water with a dozen top roman noodles and a loaf of bread to last us into next week. I am not trying to paint a "feel sorry for me" message, we don't need any sympathy, we will fight our own battles privately, but I thought it you might understand that the emotional level is at a high for all of us right now. This whole thing just really pushed us over the edge. Truly Dave, I swear to you, all you would have to do today is just look at her and she would have broke down so she was in a protective mode, so don't think she was intentionally being rude but she is hurt.

I don't know what else to say Dave. I don't even know what we are going to do tomorrow.


BM

news----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Bartholet
To: XXXXX XXXXX Bart
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:37 PM
Subject: Re:


Bart, The "apparently" should read after the discussion between Cyndi and Bill. How did you read in that I had anything to do with your move? I was a non-entity in this action. And how did you attach to my name in a discussion with Cyndi, that I was"whining" about you? That's a word that has never ever been attached to Dave Bartholet, period. And to be frank, I resent that you or anyone would lack such understanding as to attach such a negative word to my name. I find it quite amusing that after spending the last two and a half years assisting you in your art career that you could randomly associate me in any negative act, let alone, whining. Apparently you haven't been paying attention to what I have been trying to do for you. My whole existence is about being positive, again, pay attention. Bart, I was also offended when your wife and son walked right in front of my booth and didn't even offer the courtesy of "hello Dave", not to mention you. How many shows have we been at where you don't even say "hi"? The answer, zero!    I can understand you being pissed-off at the people running the show, but will never understand you being pissed-off at me. That is immature and unacceptable, because you do not know the facts. So don't f**king punish me. OK pal? And get your facts straight before you send me a dumb-assed email like the last one (apparently).

Remember the truth is what you know not what you "think" you know!

Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Art by Bart
To:XXX@XXXXXX.XXX
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:01 PM


Dave,


Well...apparently after a discussion between you and Bill, the market seemed to find it necessary to kick me out of my spot that I have had for over the last year and infact they kicked me completely off the block all together. Real nice uh?

Expert:  Norman M. replied 5 years ago.
Thanks,Customer XXXXX the emails. I seems clear that your present situation has resulted from you being removed from your place in the market, and from Dave somehow getting the wrong end of the stick about who you thought was responsible.

At this stage, I think you have to decide whther you want to mend fences, or go your separate ways.

I you decide just to end this- well that's it, but if you want to get your relationship back on an even keel, it's you who is going to have to make it work. Its clear from Dave's email that he feels a sense of hurt and injustice, even if he does express it harshly.

It might help if you sent him an email, simply saying that you and your family really care for him and admire him, and that if you have done anything to upset him, you are really possible. You could point out how much you value your friendship and how much you want to get it back. Let it all be water under the bridge - oh, and don't use BLOCK CAPITALS in your email - tha's the equivalent of shouting, and on't put any type of accusation in there.

If I can help anymore,please get back to me.

Regards,
Norman
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Great advice, but I think I got you off the path of what I was looking for. If you noticed Dave's message, IT's his huge ego that is a problem. This happen very very freqently. I.e. There is this situation but we have had others and each time some are so much worse he really blows up the ego thing. Put's down my work and claims that his is so much better, always much much better. I don't even care and if you noticed, he did the same things this time. Example, I am in a book that he co published and I was explaining the book to a customer during an art show as the customer was telling his friend that I was in this book, Dave, over heard the conversation and moved quickly from across the room to cut infront and grabbed the book and said Im also in the book but I wrote it ! Oh my. I am dealing with the situation at hand and we have resolved it. We always do just like seiblings. The EGO thing is very very big and I don't know how to handle it or why he has it. Can you tell me why he has this problem and how I should deal iwth it in the future.
Expert:  Norman M. replied 5 years ago.
Ok - Can we take these two issues in reverse order. First of all, if he did not have this 'ego' problem, something has happened to cause it - and I suspect that (at least in part)
that something is you. Quite innocently, and unknowingly. It lloks to me as if for a while he was the big fish in the pond, doing what he wanted and admired by all. Along comes this little minnow, who it was fun to encourage and feed, but all of a sudden, this minnow has turned into a serious competitor for the market and the admiration. It is his reaction to hisfear of the new situation, and a certain amount of (probably unconscious) resentment of your success, your becoming an equal in four short years. Even the book episode seems to confirm this.

I think you are going to have to accept that this way of being, this type of reaction is an inherent, almost gut instinct part of Dave's character, and as such, you are unlikely to change it easily. As to handling it, there are a few strategies that you might find useful.

First of all, keep your head held high about the standards of your own work, but never crow about your successes to him. Especially in the art world, success is often a matter of taste rather than talent. One mans work of art is another man's scrawl, so there is plenty of room for difference. It's interesting to remember that Vincent Van Gogh neber sold a painting in his lifetime!

Secondly, when you can, encourage him - be positive about his work and his vision, and try to enlist the support of your family here.

Thirdly, where it's appropriate, seek out his advice and skills - but if you can't see the point in what he is telling you, don't heed it!

And finally, remember - he's scared. He'll never admit it, but I think that's the reality. Keep that in mind in all your dealings.

Hope this is of some help!

Best regards,
Norman.
Norman M., Principal psychotherapist in private practice. Newspaper contributor, over 2000 satisfied clients on JA
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 2543
Experience: ADHP(NC), DEHP(NC), ECP, UKCP Registered.
Norman M. and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I wanted to thank you. Your response really make good sense. I know after reading the emails, you may have felt that Dave had felt like a victom here in all of this. Let me assure you, that is exactly what Dave was trying to do, that is make it APPEAR as he is the victom. Many many things he says in his emails are not true or are unfounded. For example he mentions that I have painted and am selling a copyright ship. Absolutely not true. He brought this to my attention a year ago as a concern for me. I researched the photo that I used which was a historical photo and obtained written permisson from the maritime museum to use it. Historical photos can not be copyrighted in their original form. I reported this to him but he STILL continues to say this. Also like Ellensburg, same thing, this is was an incident which upset me and I complained to the organizer about not being accepted 2 years ago. That was it. I handled it just fine but yet, he still has to throw his interprutation of it out there. He was despritley looking for somthing at fault of mine over this recent incident. Did you notice how he was obsessed with my saying that he was whinning ??? So silly but he was stuck on it because that is was all he could use to pin me down. I am so used of this and I have simply learned to accept this as just DAVE. He Ego issue exsisted well before I was in the picture. I know many other fellow artists and organizers which have severed realtions with him because of this huge ego. Last year a show kicked him out and he went histarical "Do you know who I am ??" you will be sorry. I will have every artist in the NW boycott your show and on and on and on. He even made a febel attempt at organizing his own show paralell to this one for revenge only. Again, I know this to be DAVE and have just accepted it. However, like I said, I just wanted to have help understanding why he is this way and what I can do to help him enjoy his life a little more as just Dave and not feel he has to be on top all the time. And of course some words to help me not be hurt so much when he is so determined to let me know that I dont amount to nothing compared to him. (if you want to provide me additional feedback I would greatley appreicate it) You provided some great informaiton and I greatly appreciate it. I was very very surprised with your knowledge of the art world. If you are interested in looking at my work please feel free to visit www.artbybart.net My bio credit Dave for much.    Your a good guy and seem extremely knowledge able about life. If you were around here I certainly would take time out of my life on a weekly basis just to talk through things. I think you would be of valuable help in this area for certain.

With much appreciation,

Bart
Expert:  Norman M. replied 5 years ago.
Well Bart, I'm glad to hear that I was able to help. And I will have a look at your site

All the best, norman.
Norman M., Principal psychotherapist in private practice. Newspaper contributor, over 2000 satisfied clients on JA
Category: Mental Health
Satisfied Customers: 2543
Experience: ADHP(NC), DEHP(NC), ECP, UKCP Registered.
Norman M. and other Mental Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
If you can add anything further based on my last message to help me understand and deal with Dave I pop you another $15. I know you worth a hell of a lot more but... Im a starving artist : )

Other than these glitches with Dave, He truely is a good man and as abrasive as he sounds, he really has a good heart. But I do feel hurt often and I try hard to just look past it.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I guess I already just paid you another $15 just now.
Expert:  Norman M. replied 5 years ago.
Ooops! Sorry Bart - let me talk to the site admin as to how to get that$15 back to you!

It might take a few hours though to geyt a reply, but I will get back to you as soon as possible.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Please Please just keep it. YOu have earned it. If you can add anything further to help me deal with Dave as I said in my last email, please do so and we will call it good.

Expert:  Norman M. replied 5 years ago.
Ok Bart - thanks.

Let's see then. First of all, egos - we need them. They are what part of what makes us want status, and they are a necessary part of our self image and self confidence. They are, to an extent, what drives us and make us want to be better, so they provide a spur to progress. All perfectly normal.

But when our ego gets inflated, we get the kind of problems you have had with Dave.

How much of the follwing have you seen in him?

Demanding credit for everything
Wanting to appear more important than anybody else around
Trying to dominate everything he is involved in
Constantly telling you how much better he is
Using "I" all the time instead of "we"
Rejecting those who don't immediately "take his side"

Interestingly, people with an over large ego are usually the last to be aware of it, making them hard to live with - as you have discovered.

As I said, the best way to deal with it is to modify your approach to him -

Don't "fight back" - you'll just be pouring gasoline on a fire

If he must be right - let him believe it

Always stay calm, and if the big ego sparks off, tray to remain focussed on what you want out of the exchange, and adjust your words and body language accordingly - and I don't mean let him walk over you, I mean stay calm and reasonable and begently firm. He'll start to bluster maybe, but let him get it out - then get back on to track with him, staying focussed on what you want.

If you need to 'challenge' him, don't challenge him as a person - just concentrate on quietly pointing out the weakness in his arguments

Oh, and stroke his ego when he needs it - use his name frequently when you are talking to him - a simple strategy which works with folks like Dave, in that it somehow reinforces thier own idea of their importance.

And Bart, be gracious - remember, he's a very needy person, even if he does not recognise it.

Hope this helps Bart,
All the best,
Norman.


Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Demanding credit for everything - Yes if he was part of it, some how some way his mear being made it happen.

Wanting to appear more important than anybody else around - Always and let me be clear about this. ALWAYS

Trying to dominate everything he is involved in - YES Including me. He wants me to do it his way not matter what even if its wrong, I am thereby stupid and taking Gods Gift and turning my back on it. That being him of course and these are his words.

Constantly telling you how much better he is - I think the email makes this clear.

Using "I" all the time instead of "we" --- YES, it is "ME" because of "ME" is why you got in, It is because of ME .......I did this. Even when it wasn't him he will embelish the story and make it fit his need.

Rejecting those who don't immediately "take his side - OH MY GOD ! YOU CAN NOT IMAGINE THIS ONE.   I could tell you so many stories about this. Numerous emails. I do try to feed his ego to make him feel confident but boy.... whe I ask for advice and I don't do it his way, I am a total looser of course. But we still move forward.

These episodes like this last one will be verbally violent, very agressive, abusive even, to the regular human, they would have no part of it. Dave sees that I for some reason I dont leave , well I think he sees it. These violent episodes of at time Doc... ARE VERY VERY AGRESSIVE AND HORRIBLE IN TERMS OF WORDS. I WOULD LOVE TO DIG UP AN OLD EMAIL BECAUSE YOU would be amazed but I think you have the picture. But as quickly as they come, they will last a day to a week and then .... buseinss as usual. I see a side of Dave that others struggle to see I think.

I would like to understand why he has this Ego issue. It must be from his childhood I imagine. Myself, I dont have an ego. My childhood made me doubt my abilities due to my father and as a result I have insecurities to this day, but not displayed in the form of Ego's but I do want constant acceptance and recognition in order to put my insecurities to rest. Do I make sense here ?? What could possibly have cuased this in Dave ?

Expert:  Norman M. replied 5 years ago.
You make sense, Bart, but in a pysychological sense, ego exists in all of us. It's just that for most of us, it stays within limits.


Without knowing Dave's background, It would would be pure speculation for me to try to be specific, but it does look like a fear reaction and basic insecurity.

Where the basic insecurity came form, we don't know - and even if Dave was my client and I did have an idea, that would have to stay between Dave and I.

On the subject of ego and personality n general, have a look at http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/understanding-the-id-ego-and-superego-in-psycholog.html - it's fun, but informative.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Thank you for your time. If I ever need help again, I will be looking for you.

Regards,

Bart
Expert:  Norman M. replied 5 years ago.
Thank you Bart, glad to have helped!

Norman

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