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Jackie Dempsey
Jackie Dempsey,
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 22
Experience:  Diesel Technician at Cummins Pacific
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2011 F650, crank no start. Towed in died while driving. No

Customer Question

2011 F650, crank no start. Towed in for a died while driving. No codes in computer. Did notice however, DEF gauge is at E, doesn't move up what so ever. Orange DEF light is on, red stop engine light is on. Added 3 gallons of DEF, crank no start.Cummins ISB.
Submitted: 8 months ago.
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Expert:  Jackie Dempsey replied 8 months ago.

Hello, my name is ***** ***** I will gladly assist you with your question today. I would like to start just to clarify by asking when you added the 3 gallons of DEF did the orange light go away? The engine will derate and a red stop engine light will occur if the DEF level gets too low. I assume by filling up the DEF tank that problem has now been resolved. (please let me know if it has not) For the crank no start, does the priming pump buzz at key on? sounds as tho you may have air in the lines and the system needs to be purged. if the priming pump does buzz yet there is still no crank, crack injector lines to ensure there is fuel, once fuel is seen at each line if it will still not start that will signal there is an additional issue. Please confirm my questions and I will be glad to assist further if that does not solve the problem.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Adding DEF did not change the gauge nor the orange light. I have not been out to see if the pump is buzzing. It does the normal pre start clicks. I have a feeling the DEF issue is the cause for the no start. I will go out and see if that pump is priming.
Expert:  Jackie Dempsey replied 8 months ago.

Perfect thank you, ***** ***** me know

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
There is no buzzing coming from anywhere. The dashboard is beeping, I assume because the stop engine light is on.
Expert:  Jackie Dempsey replied 8 months ago.

Thank you for confirming, I found an article that will not fix the situation but may make for an interesting read: http://blog.ryder.com/2014/07/dont-let-diesel-exhaust-fluid-disrupt-business/

Anyhow, per your current problem:

This issue could be caused by a few things, when the DEF system is exposed to air the DEF fluid will crystallize. I have seen entire systems ruined by this (not saying yours is, just stating a fact) I would begin by verifying there is no leak in the DEF system, using a refractometer to verify that the DEF in the system is within specification, and then performing tests to verify that the pump and the dosing valve are functioning properly. You also need to check the fuel system to ensure you are getting fuel at each injector, this can be performed by priming the system and cracking each injector line until you see a few drops of fuel leak out. If there is no buzzing sound present then your priming pump may have failed. With no fault codes and only being able to assist via the internet I don't want to start jumping to conclusions. In my experience with these systems they are very touchy, and the slightest issue will set them off. I do believe however that the problem is within the SCR system and not an engine fuel issue. I have attached some information on common fault codes to troubleshoot the system, I feel performing the procedures may be helpful. If you do not have the Cummins Insight program I recommend bringing it into a shop where they can hook up and verify the parameters of the system for you. If you have any questions please let me know! When you are ready please take a moment to rate my service. I hope I have provided adequate assistance, have a wonderful day!

Guided Step 2 - Check the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit and circuit.

Guided Step 2A - Inspect the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit and electrical connections.

Conditions

  • Turn keyswitch OFF.
  • Disconnect the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit from the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller harness.

Action

Inspect the engine harness and aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit connections for the following:

  • Loose connector
  • Corroded pins
  • Bent or broken pins
  • Pushed back or expanded pins
  • Moisture in or on the connector
  • Missing or damaged connector pins
  • Dirt or debris in or on the connector pins
  • Connector shell broken
  • Wire insulation damage
  • Damaged connector locking tab.

Dirty or damaged pins?

YESNO

A damaged connection has been detected in the sensor or harness connector.

Clean the connector and pins.

Repair the damaged harness, connector, or pins, if possible.

No Repair

Go to 4A

Go to 2B

Guided Step 2B - Check the circuit response

Conditions

  • Turn keyswitch OFF.
  • Disconnect the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit from the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller harness.
  • Turn keyswitch ON.
  • Connect INSITE™ electronic service tool.

Action

Check the circuit response after 30 seconds.

  • Place a jumper wire between the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit SUPPLY pin and the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit SIGNAL pin at the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit wiring harness connector.
  • Use INSITE™ electronic service tool to read the fault codes.

Note: Fault Codes 3429, 3571, and 3579 will be active.

Fault Code 3561 inactive and Fault Code 3558 active?

YESNO

No RepairNo Repair

Go to 2C

Go to 3A

Guided Step 2C - Check the fault codes and verify the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit condition.

Conditions

  • Turn keyswitch OFF.
  • Connect the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit to the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller harness.
  • Turn keyswitch ON.
  • Connect INSITE™ electronic service tool.

Action

Check the circuit response after 30 seconds.

  • Use INSITE™ electronic service tool to check the fault codes.

Fault Code 3561 active?

YESNO

A damaged aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit has been detected.

Replace the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit.

The removal and installation of the connector corrected the fault.

Guided Step 3 - Check the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller an

Guided Step 3A - Inspect the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller and harness connector pins.

Conditions

  • Turn keyswitch OFF.
  • Disconnect the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller harness from the controller.

Action

Inspect the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller harness and controller 86-pin connector pins for the following:

  • Loose connector
  • Corroded pins
  • Bent or broken pins
  • Pushed back or expanded pins
  • Moisture in or on the connector
  • Missing or damaged connector pins
  • Dirt or debris in or on the connector pins
  • Connector shell broken
  • Wire insulation damage
  • Damaged connector locking tab.

Dirty or damaged pins?

YESNO

A damaged connection has been detected in the controller connector or the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller harness connector.

Clean the connector and pins.

Repair the damaged harness, connector, or pins, if possible.

No Repair

Go to 4A

Go to 3B

Guided Step 3B - Check for an open circuit in the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit circuit.

Conditions

  • Turn keyswitch OFF.
  • Disconnect the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller harness from the controller.
  • Disconnect the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit from the harness.

Action

Check for an open circuit in the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit circuit.

  • Measure the resistance between the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit SUPPLY pin at the harness connector and the 86-pin controller connector.
  • Measure the resistance between the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit RETURN pin at the harness connector and the 86-pin controller connector.
  • Measure the resistance between the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit SIGNAL pin at the harness connector and the 86-pin controller connector.

Less than 10 ohms?

YESNO

Replace the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller

An open circuit has been detected in the aftertreatment diesel exhaust fluid controller harness.

Repair or replace the harness.

Refer to the OEM service manual.

Go to 4A

Go to 4A

Guided Step 4 - Check ECM calibration and clear fault codes.

Guided Step 4A - Check if an ECM calibration update is available.

Conditions

  • Connect all components.
  • Connect INSITE™ electronic service tool.

Action

Compare the ECM code and revision number in the ECM to the calibration revisions listed in the ECM Calibration Revision History for applicable changes related to this fault code.

  • Use INSITE™ electronic service tool to find the present ECM code and revision number in the ECM. The ECM code and revision number are found in the Calibration Information section of System ID and Dataplate in Features and Parameters.

If a calibration update for this fault code is available, does the ECM contain that revision or higher?

YESNO

No Repair

If necessary, calibrate the ECM.

Go to 4B

Go to 4B

Guided Step 4B - Disable the fault code.

Conditions

  • Connect all components.
  • Connect INSITE™ electronic service tool.

Action

Disable and clear the fault code.

Expert:  Jackie Dempsey replied 8 months ago.

Just wanting to touch base to see if you had any further questions? Please also take a moment to rate my service today, thank you!

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