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Jeremy
Jeremy, Certified Truck/Bus Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 2784
Experience:  ASE Med/HD Truck Technician, NATEF Diesel Engines and Electrical/Electronics Technician, EPA 608/609 HVAC Certified, Steering/Suspension and ABS/Brakes Technician
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I have a 2004 international 4200, it started smoking and

Customer Question

I have a 2004 international 4200, it started smoking and stop running, it cranks over but will not start. I checked the high oil pressure while cranking it has 500 psi
JA: We'll do all we can to help. Tell me a bit more about what's going on so the Heavy Truck Mechanic can help you best.
Customer: Also it will not fire on starting fluid
JA: Is there anything else the Heavy Truck Mechanic should be aware of?
Customer: I removed the fuel filter and cranked it over it started filling the canister so I assume the transfer pump is working.
JA: OK. Got it. I'm sending you to a secure page on JustAnswer so you can place the fully-refundable deposit now. While you're filling out that form, I'll tell the Heavy Truck Mechanic about your situation and connect you two.
Submitted: 9 months ago.
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Expert:  Jeremy replied 9 months ago.

My name is ***** ***** I will assist you with your question today.

I'm an independent contractor and I don't get paid until a rating has been made. No rate, site gets it all.

We can go back and forth as needed to help resolve the issue you are having. Follow ups are free after ratings, so rate in confidence!

If it is smoking, it is fueling. So you know there is fuel getting to it for smoke means unburned fuel or improperly burned fuel.

Do you have any codes indicating a electrical issue with the injectors? Were they pulled to see if any coolant has bypassed the cups and hydrolocked the engine?

What color of smoking was it doing?

Did you check the fuses ate the batteries? I know it seems simple, but they blow all the time and that wire there will melt and cause no start issues so much that you just want to bypass it, but then doing so will burn the truck down. (Had a customer bypass after being suggested to not do that and that is what he found the next morning)

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Jeremy

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Here is some back ground on my skill level, my father was in the trucking business for 50 years, I worked at a cummins dealer for 8 years and have rebuilt tons of cummins and cat emgines.i still work on equipment for a drilling Co.
I have access to a cat and cummins computer here at work but nothing for the international. My buddy owns the truck and I didn't want to work on it knowing that I would be limited on trouble shooting it. They think since I work on the cat and cummins that I could fix it! Probably can if I know what's wrong lol. The info I got was that it started to smoke and quit running.
Expert:  Jeremy replied 9 months ago.

These are heavier electronic than a cat. Very similar to a HEUI setup like the 3126 in the way the injectors are actuated by the oil pressure. They are fired by the IDM which is why I asked about checkimg the fuses at the battery box because they burn oit often and cause exactly what you are describing, besides a bad injector or injector harness.

To onow if you have an injector harness issue causing this, look umder the valve cover at the injector hook ups and you'll see oil around the plugs. If any oil at all has seeped by, the harness is pushing oil and it needs to be changed. It's a pricey part, but very common issue to keep the injectors from firing. To replace it, pop the valve cover and you're looking at it. It's a harness and valve cover seal in one. Simple to change, just a oain to get to because the dog house needs to come out to get to the back bolts.

I would start at the fuses first ro make sure they didn't pop from the injector harness shorting followed by the injector harness pushing oil to then unplugging the CMP on the front of the engine, passenger side to make sure it's not giving a bad reading (will stsrt with unplugged in default mode) to popping the valve cover and sending the injectors out for pop testing.

That's the steps I would do if I had this engine in front of me with no computer to hook up.

I can understand the frustration with it. I get people doing the opposite with me. They bring me their CAT engines to work on in machines or trucks and I'm not a cat guy. International, Detroit, Mack, etc sure. Cat, nope. I'm weak in CAT engines.

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I checked the fuses in the battery box I will go threw the other items when I get home. Will let you know!
Expert:  Jeremy replied 9 months ago.

Thanks

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Jeremy the injector harness is separate from the valve cover seal
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Cranking the engine again with the batteries fully charged I am getting a reading of 1500 psi or more at the ICP port
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
How do I go about check power to the injectors? I read over our discussion from the beginning you mention that if I am getting smoke when cranking I'm getting fuel , not the case the owner said it started smoking and shut down. It dose not smoke at all now while cranking.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Are still with me
Expert:  Jeremy replied 9 months ago.

I apologize. I never got a notice that this was responded to...

If you have no smoking at all, then there is not injector firing at all.

When you turn the key on, not starting, just turn the key do you get the injector buzz test? That indicates the injectors are getting the signal from the IDM. If no buzz, then there is an issue with the IDM or to the injectors. That will rule that out and make it on the signal going in to the ECM from the CAMP sensor, which controls the injector firing.

See if you hear the injectors to rule out half the system right quick.

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
there is clicking going on at the injectors
Expert:  Jeremy replied 9 months ago.

Buss test is working. Oil pressure is good.

Next is to check the fuel pressure and the CMP sensor. I know you didn't mention a code, but CLICK HERE for how to test the CMP sensor to make sure it is sending the signal out. Testing the fuel pressure will help determine if there is a fuel pressure issue due to a bad pump. If you look on the back of the HPOP, you will see a tiny little fuel pump. That is all the engine has. They burn up pretty easy because of how small they are.

You can tap into the fuel filter housing or connect to the nipple on the top of the filter housing and check vacuum or connect a gauge onto the pump side and see what the pressure is. Either will work. Vacuum is at least 11 and pressure should be at least 37.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I replaced the cam and crank sensor still won't start. Pull the fuel filter back out and cranked it seems to be getting air in fuel filter housing was all but empty.
Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

If you are getting air in the filter, you are sucking air somewhere along the fuel lines or you have a crack in the pick up tube for the fuel tank. It will be difficult, but you will have to go section by section on the fuel line to see where the air is coming in.

Start wit hthe filter housing for it is the most likely location and then at the top of the tank, where someone may kick the line with a boot getting into the cab.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
You mention that the fuel pump was connected to the HPOP I thought it was connected to the power steering pump that runs off the flywheel?
Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

Fuel pump location for a 2004 engine with EGR.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
We're talking about the same engine I hope 6.0 v8
Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

I thought this was a DT466 in a International 4200.

That is a bit different. It is on the power steering oump like you mentioned.

That engine has the fuel lines on teh front of the engine. If you look on the driver side, you will see twhere the 2 fuel lines travel there is a rubber piece of hose where it makes the line a little flexible, check there for ant sings of cracking. They suck air in at that point a lot.

Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

I was thinking a completely different engine, I apologize.

Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

I see you viewed this and this is still showing as an open question due to no positive (3 stars or more) rating.

Were you not pleased with my service to you or is there a rating issue? Please let me know if you still need assistance with this, if there is a rating issue, and/or you need more time to respond.

I like to make sure all my customers are satisfied since you did pay a deposit for me to assist you, whether I’m paid by a positive rating feedback or not.

We can continue where we left off or start over if needed. Also, if you need diagrams, instructions, etc please don’t hesitate to ask.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Jeremy I jumped to another job, putting head gaskets on a n14 I will get back to you
Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

Ok, let me know. Just trying to keep the question from timing out on me.

Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

I see you viewed this and this is still showing as a open question due to no positive (3 stars or more) rating.

Did you still need assistance with this? Let me know. This question timed out on me and I am trying to keep it open.

Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

I see you viewed this and this is still showing as an open question due to no positive (3 stars or more) rating.

Were you not pleased with my service to you or is there a rating issue? Please let me know if you still need assistance with this, if there is a rating issue, and/or you need more time to respond.

I like to make sure all my customers are satisfied since you did pay a deposit for me to assist you, whether I’m paid by a positive rating feedback or not.

We can continue where we left off or start over if needed. Also, if you need diagrams, instructions, etc please don’t hesitate to ask.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Ok let's try this again, I must have miss lead you from the start. This is a VT365 6.0 I had 500 psi at the check port then it went to 1300 psi and now no psi at all but never offered to start. If I crank it long enough the oil pressure gauge in the dash will go up to 60 psi. At the port where you check high pressure I unhooked the gauge and put air pressure to the port and air leaking internal out the valve cover where the blow by hose goes in. Pulled the intake off and the cover off the high oil pressure pump it appears to be leaking out the seal behind the gear on the pump. What don't make since is why I had pressure and the all a sudden it went away.
Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

Sounds like you blew the seal on the high presure oil pump if you are leaking out of the back of it.

One thing you wrote is you will eventually get oile pressure on the low side after cranking for awhile. Is the tube cracked or the o-rings bad? You should get oil pressure nearly instantly on that side of the engine. You shouldn't have to crank over and over.

On the high pressure side, that seal leaking is bad. That needs to be resolved with a new pump or rebuilt one.

Check to make sure your oil cooler isn't plugged causing surges to the high pressure pump to cause the seal to blow.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I'm guessing the oil cooler is under the oil filter base
Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

Correct. The oil cooler is under the oil filter housing. It is square and under the cover for the filter housing. Remove the bolts and you can have it cleaned at a radiator shop if you see is sludged up. It will look goopy in the port holes.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Ok, yeah I have to crank it for about 8 or 10 seconds before I get oil pressure and then goes up to about 60 psi
Expert:  Jeremy replied 8 months ago.

That I would check the oil pickup tube. You'll have to drop the pan for that and see if it is cracked or if the o-ting is blown. You could also have an issue with the drainback valve in the oil filter housing as well. That is the check ball in the bottom of the filter housing. If it is damaged from using a non-OEM filter, I would change it out. If it isn;t holding the oil, it will cause pressure loss to the high pressure pump and a long oil pressure build up on the low side as well.

Expert:  Jeremy replied 7 months ago.

I see you viewed this and this is still showing as a open question due to no positive (3 stars or more) rating.

Did you still need assistance with this?