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Daniel Wilson
Daniel Wilson,
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
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Experience:  Owner at DJ Wilson
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Wal my name and the problem I have is with a cat 311b starts

Customer Question

Customer: wal my name and the problem I have is with a cat 311b starts fine 1st thing once you stop and try to restart it won't crank battery light comes on as well as low oil pressure light ,low coolant etc after a while it will start can you put some light on this problem
JA: Thanks. Can you give me any more details about your issue?
Customer: that's all the issue is
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Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
have we an answer yet ?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
is there a solution to my problem and can we solve it ?
Expert:  cat_engines_only replied 1 year ago.

Hello,

This sounds like the starter windings do not like being hot or the contacts in the starter solenoid could be bad.

Run the machine and when this problem occurs, check voltage at the white wire on the starter solenoid while holding the key switch in the start position.

If you have power to the white wire while the key switch is in the start position, the problem is in the starter.

If you do not have power to the white wire, you have an issue with the electrical systems.

Let me know what you find and please post the full machine serial number with your reply.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
how does this cause the indicator lights to come on [ low oil pressure ,battery ,coolant level low ,engine oil level low ,and hydraulic oil level low ] as I said it is alright first up starts with out hesitation but when you stop and start again this problem occurs ,
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
the colour code for the wiring at starter are as follows red /battery ,gn green off the start relay ,and yl yellow ofv the other side of the start relay so no white
Expert:  cat_engines_only replied 1 year ago.

Hello,

Your problem could be the power to the main relay or the battery power is low or too high. Have you checked the alternator?

What is the battery voltage? What is the charging voltage?

The wires you are describing go to a start relay not the starter solenoid. This is more common on "grey market" machines. That is why I always ask for a serial number. If this is "grey market", I will not have the correct information for the machine.

However, they are very close to US versions on some components.

The start relay will power the start solenoid. The wire across from the red/battery wire is to the solenoid terminal. This must have power when the key switch is in start. Do you perform that test? What were the results?

Did you test power to the start relay? (yellow or green control wires)

Let me know what you find and please post the full machine serial number with your reply.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok but why would all things be ok first up when you start ?
Expert:  cat_engines_only replied 1 year ago.

Heat build up from running?
The ECM controller does not have any lockout for starting other than the safety/hydraulic lockout lever must be back in the "Neutral" or starting position. It is very rare for this switch to fail and I have never seen one act this way.

Let me know what you find and please post the full machine serial number with your reply.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Could it be in the key switch ? Will check battery voltage and running voltage when I am on site with machine on Tuesday and I will get serial no also ,will respond back on Tuesday evening with more information ,thank you
Expert:  cat_engines_only replied 1 year ago.

Yes, it is possible. The one machine I saw do that also caused the key switch to get very hot and all the power would disappear.

Electrical connections can be tricky no matter your experience with electrical repairs. I still struggle through some repairs and spent over a week on a dozer just last week trying to find a similar short. Turned out to be a harness to the transmission causing the engine to die then it would restart normally.

I like to eliminate the most common issues first that are easy to check. It is easiest to find if the starter is the problem or if we need to dig in deeper into the harness. That is why I must have the serial number to be able to tell where any other problems could be located.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
have checked voltage battery volts is 25.2 vts running voltage is 28.5 vts I have found that the controller has all 3 indicators on yellow, red , and green at one stage had orange flashing then on another had the red flashing , had no problems starting today tried several times but started without any problem eng no 3064 ,s/n 6lk2--------- cannot read all there is a no 8cr000594 ? or arrangement no(###) ###-#### ***** all of this makes sense
Expert:  cat_engines_only replied 1 year ago.

Thanks for the serial number. I believe it should be as follows,

311B 8GR00594 Arrangement(###) ###-####/p>

3064 6LK22414 Engine

Here are details about the status lights.

There are three status indicators. Each indicator is a different color. The colors of the indicators are in the following list: red, yellow and green. The indicator may be flashing or the indicator may be continuously illuminated. Different combinations of the conditions indicate the status of the controller.

Green Indicator

When the disconnect switch and the keyswitch are in the ON position, the green indicator should be ON. If the green indicator is not ON, check the fuse for the controller and the power wiring to the controller.

When positive 24 VDC is applied to the controller, the green indicator should be ON. The DC voltage is applied to connector 1 at contact 1. The ground is applied to contact 2.

The Green Indicator and the Yellow Indicators

The green indicator is ON when power is applied to the controller.

The yellow indicator is ON when there is a problem of communication between the controller and the monitor. If the yellow indicator is ON, check the wiring harness for the data link between the controller and the monitor for the following conditions:

  • Open Circuits

     

  • Shorts to Ground

     

  • Shorts to the Battery

     

The Green Indicator and the Red Indicator

The condition indicates that the controller has an internal fault. Replace the controller. Refer to Testing and Adjusting, "Controller - Replace".

The Green Indicator, Yellow Indicator, and the Red Indicator

The condition indicates that the controller has an internal fault. Replace the controller. Refer to Testing and Adjusting, "Controller - Replace".

If the controller has been submerged or the cab gets water inside it, the controller can be damaged. Remove the mounting bolts and inspect the bottom side for corrosion. If you find a hole, replace the controller.

Did you change anything that would have helped the connection to the stater?

Do you see the red bar at the top of the monitor flash?

Are any other indicators showing on the display?

Does the monitor perform a self test when you turn the key on? (All indicators should appear then the fluid level check lights will stay on if the levels are low or sensor circuit is open.)

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
the bar in the monitor flashes on start up and the screen is illuminated with the fuel ,oil pressure and oil temp in it's levels all the sensors are illuminated at the start but go off once the machine starts so can the controller be reset ? and how do we read the faults ,need to plug in do we ,what do you mean by replacing the controller ? and you also refer to testing and adjusting . why do the indicator lights flash sometime and not others and then all stay on ?
Expert:  cat_engines_only replied 1 year ago.

No, the controllers (ECM) do not have any magic reset /oops button. Clearing any fault code will not fix any problem.

If the controller is not working, you can use the backup mode switch to temporarily bypass the controllers. However, the starting circuit is not in the controller. Its sole function is regulating pump output to prevent overloading the engine. It is limited even in the ability to protect the engine and will only slightly reduce power when a system is faulty.

Your starting issue is not likely from the controller but, the monitor problem could be caused by the controller.

The description for the indicator lamps I posted is all the explanation available from CAT. I have not seen any flash before, they have been either on or off when I have been working on these machines. All I focus on is the yellow light, meaning no communication with the monitor display and the red light meaning a failed controller. Of course, if the green light is not on you check for power to the controller starting with the fuse.

The references are to the CAT service manual. It would be a good investment if you plan to keep this machine.

In the manual you can find all the details on testing the circuits and even how to view the active and logged fault codes through the display.

All it requires is pressing certain buttons in sequence to enter a service password. Once in the service mode, many functions can be tested for the control of the pump and engine speed. Calibrations can also be done with only a few gauges needed to see pressures.

Did you lift up the controller to see if the bottom was rusted through?

Have you had the starting problem again were you could test the starter wiring?

Expert:  cat_engines_only replied 1 year ago.

If you want to see part of the manual, see the attachment for Using the Service mode.

Sub mode 18 and 19 are to view the codes

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