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Jeremy
Jeremy, Certified Truck/Bus Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 3137
Experience:  ASE Med/HD Truck Technician, NATEF Diesel Engines and Electrical/Electronics Technician, EPA 608/609 HVAC Certified, Steering/Suspension and ABS/Brakes Technician
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F650 2003 cummins 5.9, just replaced the block idles great,

Customer Question

Customer: f650 2003 cummins 5.9, just replaced the long block idles great, no boost and no power at all, vp44 and injector are new.. codes pid 91 sid 232 sid 164 mid2
JA: Thanks. Can you give me any more details about your issue?
Customer: yes..
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Customer: im a diesel mechanic, we installed a long block cummins in f650, everything seems to be fine, lp pump at 15psi,
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Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

Hi my name is***** will be glad to try to help PID 91 is for Your accelerator pedal. Try calibration first. IGN on and press slowly to the floor and then back up to the top 3 times to calibrate.

91

13

PID

91

2114

Accelerator Pedal Learn Error

91

3

PID

91

2114

Accelerator Pedal Circuit Failed High

91

4

PID

91

2114

Accelerator Pedal Circuit Failed Low

91

8

PID

91

2114

Pwm Accelerator Pedal Signal 1 Frequency

Out Of Range

91

14

PID

91

2114

Pwm Accelerator Pedal

Not Learned

91

7

PID

91

2114

Pwm Accelerator Pedal Idle

Not Recognized

91

31

PID

91

2114

Pwm Accelerator Pedal Learned

Range to Large

91

3

PID

91

2114

Accelerator Pedal Signal

Circuit Failed High

91

9

SID

231

2615

J19

39 EEC2

Message is

missing

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I've done that already and its still the same..
Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

Are you getting any throttle response?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I am..
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
there are 3 cables going to the sensor, one has 5v+ the other one goes up to 3.6v+ at wot and next one is a ground..
Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

232 1 444 OEM Sensor Supply Voltage

3 227 Sensor Supply Voltage

385 OEM Sensor Supply Voltage

386 Sensor Supply Voltage #1

4 187 Sensor Supply Voltage

352 Volt Supply Below Normal

Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

Thats for the 232 fault which is for your sensor supply from the ECM. Check the battery box and starter connections and grounds, sensor harness and ECM connector pins . The ECM is reading erratic voltage in the sensor circuit. Should have 5V to the sensor and then reading the return. If alll tests good and the harness and voltage is good, replace the Throttle sensor

Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

Be sure to re calibrate it as well but take a close look at the harness and connector pins.... LEt me know

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
scanner says sid 232 5volts dc supply
also have sid 6 mid 0
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
everything looks good as far connectors grounds etc.. I unplugged every sensor as it runs and it didn't change the derated mode that is in.. so my guess was the tps, although it seems unlikely for it to go bad as the truck was just sitting there..
do you know the output voltage out the tps at wot? im guessing 4.75v?
Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

I agree with your guess for the TPS. I do not know the exact values for the return voltage as they vary between the sensors and calibration values. Here are some schematics with pinouts that should be helpful.

Schematics

Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

If the TPS does not correct this issue then have the ECM software reflashed and verify good power and ground to the ECM

Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

Be sure you have the most current updates programmed and at the same time you will know if there is an ECM problem . Let me know

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
do you know what sid 164 mid 2 stands for?
Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

Are you using Cummins Insite for a scan tool or a different scan tool? That does not match anything on my fault codes list and sometimes the non OEM scan tools will throw some generic code numbers like that. There is a PID 164 FMI 2 but it is a Cat code for an injection actuation fault. Are you able to pull Cummins flash codes to compare the results through either the cruise switches or diagnostic switches? Let me know

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
no, just snap on generic.. I keep getting that code and I couldn't find it anywhere..
Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

Neither can I. I believe it is a generic code for the scanner. Cummins Insite will be more accurate on the code numbers or if you can check flash codes. I would focus on the other codes and see if this one comes back once the others are solved.

Expert:  cumminsdr replied 1 year ago.

What is the engine serial number ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
46230200..
So far it was not the tps the problem..I measured the voltage out the map sensor and I had .5 volts, as I understand that engine should be putting out 1 volt or higher so I put some pressure inside the sensor with a screw driver till I got it to go to 1.5 volts at idle,check engine light went off, now I have some power, 10psi of boost at wot but the power it's not all there, can't go over 50mph and it's "really" slow on take off..excessive black smoke..
I bought a new sensor, installed it and it goes back to the beginning of not doing anything.. The sensor looks to be the right one...can't remember the part number..
So tomorrow I'm going to cummins dealer to check few things, hopefully I can get an advice..I have to get it going, any ideas will be appreciate..
Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

Check the waste gate on the turbo for sticking as with it open you should get up to around 30 psi of boost and usually settles around 25psi. Check the turbo piping for any pinholes or leaks and inspect the turbo for any damage or drag in the bearings. Let me know

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have taken the turbo out already, all good, waste gate, no leaks etc..I owned few cummins before, never got 30psi.. I'll be really happy with 18, 20:)
The map sensor sets the boost.. Everything mechanical is perfect.. I I think It's the fuel delivery the problem throwing off the boost.. The voltage in the map tells the ecm and vp44 what to do.. Do you know the exact voltage the map should be sending out in that cummins model?
Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

thanks for the info. Not off the top of my head but I will see if if I can find some specs on the return voltage. As you know input is 5V from the ECM. Here are some schematics that will help as well.

Schematics

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Yea, I have 5v going in, I had 0.5v going out and the truck wasn't moving, after setting the map at 1.5v return the truck got a lot better.. Far from perfect!..
So, as I right now that's where I stand..
Thank you.
Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

Thanks for the update. I sent a message over to another expert who works for Cummins as he may jump in and take over. My availability for the next few days will be scarce and he or another expert might have some other suggestions as well. Just another thought. Is the pump timing dead on? Could it be possible the pump may need to be rotated a few degrees. Click on this link

Installation

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok thanks.. The pump in the 24v can only be set one way.. 1 cero on the pump 2 ceros in the cam gear.. It's set on.. Already checked it, took timing cover out and it s set dead on.. If it was out of timing I think it would not idle correctly, but I checked it just in case..
Thank you for you time..
Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

You're welcome. I am going to opt out and see if Cummins DR or another expert may be able to take over from here.

Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

100 18 is low oil pressure warning

100 2 is no oil pressure signal

If the oil pressure and sensor is good then check the harness and connectors for loose or damaged wiring or connections. As for your brakes will the park brake not disengage to allow travel? Check your fuses, relays and harness as well as your battery and charging system for low voltage. Let me know

Expert:  Daniel Wilson replied 1 year ago.

sorry about that.... Something is wrong with the site.... The page refreshed when I sent this on another question and posted here.

Expert:  Jeremy replied 1 year ago.

My name is ***** ***** I will assist you.

i will save you a whole lot of trouble.

Put the engine back together and take the vehicle to Cummins or to someone that has Insite.

Have the engine programmed with the updates and have the turbo calibration done. You pulled the turbo and there is a calibration setting that absolutely has to be done or you will have the exact complaint you are having. Get this done first and foremost before moving on. Right now you are wasting your time until you get these 2 things done.

Every single engine rebuild or replacement that I have had to do with the new Holset turbos on these Cummins engines I had to use Insite and prgram the engine as well as calibrate the turbo or the engine was a gutless pig. Over the years I;ve learned to do this automatically.

The 164 2 code that you are getting is "Turbo Calibration out of Sequence." This means the turbo is not working properly and the ECM can't control it to its max points.

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