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Andy
Andy, Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 866
Experience:  International trucks, International, Maxxforce and Cummins engines, diagnostic, electrical, Hvac and refrigeration repairs
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4700: INTERNATIONAL 466E WONT START

Resolved Question:

INTERNATIONAL 466E WONT START
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Hi there ! My name is XXXXX XXXXX I would like to try and help you resolve your problem!Can we start with the last 8 digits of the vin number please?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

5 min

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
I am currently at work but will need home shortly to look up your wiring diagrams
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


k. TH297145. BACKGROUNG IS AS FOLLOWS. NO START LAST FAFF. NO FUEL PRESSURE. INSTALLED NEW PUMP, WORKED FINE TILL NOW. CAN PRIME HAND PUMP HARD AD DOESNT WEAKEN EVEN AFTER CRANKING. INSTALLED NEW CAM SENSOR AND GAPPED. SAME ISSUE. NOT EVEN A PUFF OF EXHAUST. CIRCUT BREAKER FOR ECM IS GOOD. SCANNER IS OUT BEING SERVICED. DONT HAVE SCHEMATICS. PROCESSOR??

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Is there an engine light staying on?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

NONE OTHER THAN THOSE NORMAL TO KOEO.

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Which pump was replaced? Fuel transfer pump or high pressure injection pump?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


THE LOW PRESSURE PUMP , JUST DOWNSTREAM FROM THE HAND PUMP

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Have you checked all the fuses in the battery box? Also make sure that the fuse holders aren't damaged!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

ONLY RELATED ONE I SEE IS A BREAKER UNDER THE PANEL FOR THE ECM, HAS POWER. DONT KNOW WHICH PINS ON THE PROCESSOR TO CHECK POWER AND GROUNDS

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
I can look up diagrams when I get home if you like!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

GREAT

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Will send diagram as soon as possible
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


TKS

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
graphic
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


TKS WILL SCOPE IT OUT

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
This is of a 1998 model truck which should be the same . Unfortunately , the oldest I could go was 1998 for the diagrams . When you turn the key on , does the engine warn lamp come on momentarily and then go out ? This would be an indicator that the ECM is powering up or not . If not , then I would follow the wiring from the batteries up to the ECM . I would also swap the relays out that are mounted right were the ECM is on the firewall. One is for the ECM and will have 3 purple wires and one red wire on it ! Just follow the diagram and it should help you ! I'll be around if you need anything else!
Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
My pleasure Brian ! I really hope this helps you out!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


IF IM FOLLOWING THIS RIGHT, FUSE 5 IS KEY ON IGN POWER TO THE PROCESSOR, PIN 24. FUSE 12 IS KEY ON POWER THE THE PROCESSOR RELAY. AND PIN 25 GROUNGE THE REYAY TO SUPPLY POWER TO 21 22 41. IF EVERYTHING IS KOSHER WITH THE WIRING, KEY ON SHOULD POWER 21 22 41 WITHOUT CRANKING, CORRECT?

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
F5 does feed to pin 24. This is how the ECM knows that somebody has turned the key to the on position. Fuse 12 supplies power to the trigger side of the relay and on to the ECM at pin 25 where the ECM will complete the trigger circuit of the relay by providing a ground when the key is cycled on. With key on, you should have power at pin this 21, 22, and 41. You could also jump the relay to see if it'll start by jumping the big red wire at the relay to the big purple wire at the relay. But be sure that you use a heavy enough jumper!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

FUSE 12? IM SHOWING 11. BAD ON MY PRINT OR DID YOU FAT FINGER THE KEYBOARD? P.S. LIKE I DO...

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Nope my diagram here shows fuse 11 is just above fuse five .
Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Are the fuses okay?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


TRUCK AT COSTOMERS SHED. IM AT THE SHOP NOW, WILL CHECK AGAIN AM. IVE GOT ALL BREAKERS. NONE TRIPPED , ALL HAD PRIMARY POWER BUT ILL FUSED JUMP THOSE 2 TO TEST NOW THAT I KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR. TKS

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
you are very welcome!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

harnesses are night and day different, can verify relay opperation, single wire directly to proseccor in place of 21 22 41. what i cant vertfy is power from fuse 5 ( if it even relevent to the 95 model) harness off the processor power only to one 10 gauge wire. would where you work have a 95 schematic?p.s. im not a cheepskate on bonuses

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Hello Brian! Sorry it took so long to reply to you but I was a working day shift today! A got your message and looked through some of the older books at our dealership. I must've went through about 20 different books and unfortunately I haven't been able to find the proper diagram for you! If you're not into much of a rush, I can try and dig up through some more books at work on Monday. If you want I can opt out and let another expert try and find it for you! It's totally up to you!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

go ahead and look. as far as i can tell the computers are 95-96 only.im pretty sure its the processor. ive established a good relay but would like to check secondary power and grounds. if i can get a processor ordered by tues ill be in good shape.

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.

Just checking with you again on this ! All the fuses in battery box are ok? And also did you say the warn engine goes on and then out as a bulb check at key on ?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Correct
Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
So the ECM is likely powering up . The primer pump is hard ?
Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
When you replaced the low pressure transfer pump , did you replace all the small quad rings on the fuel lines in the tube nuts? Especially the ones before the pump are more important because they could draw air into the fuel system(suction side) !
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


primer bulb stays hard even after cranking, fuses are all good and constant battery power is present at the relay. your diagram for the 98 harness shows fuse 5 as secondary power to the processor. if i unplug the processor i only have power on the single circut # XXXXX comes from the relay. i have no secondary power. that is where i guess i will need the 95 specific diagiram to chech the power and grounds. my wiring #'s are totally different

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Do you have power at 2 pins on the ECM relay? You may hear the relay clicking but only because the trigger side is working ! You should have power at one of the big wires at the relay , and also power at one of the smaller wires. It's the power from the big wire that I am concerned with cause this power will come from the batteries . If you don't have power at the big wire at the relay,then there is a problem with the ECM harness coming from the batteries and we need to give that harness a really good visual inspection for rubout ,broken wiring or corrosion somewhere along the frame rail.I have seen this so many times on older international trucks ! You might even have power on the big wire at the relay with a test light but not enoough getting there and so sometimes , we need to load the circuit by hooking up a headlight o something that draws a lot of power to that big wire right at the relay and grounding the headlight to see if it comes on bright at all! If it does not come on or comes on dim , problem is definitely in the harness to the batteries ! Good Luck!!! Let me know the results !Thanks !
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


got a 9004 bulb with alligator clips for high amp tests. wire to batteries ok. with the relay unhooked , key offthere is power on one big wire, go to key on, power on one big and one small, plug in relay and brings up power on other big wire to the processor.. key off drops it. possable ground issue from processor to batteries but dont know which processor pin is master ground. there is one 10 gauge white on the processor connector. wondering if that is the ground.

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
White is usually for ground ! Correct !
Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Have you tried grounding to a different location with that white wire?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

havent been back at it. possably later today. how and where do they usially ground the processor?

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
The ground would go all the way back to the batteries along with the positive. But you can try momentarily grounding it somewhere else, like on the negative of the alternator to see if it will start. If it does then you're ground wire is broken somewhere up to the batteries. Let me know what you find. I hope this helps!
Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Hi there ! Just checking in to see how you are doing ! Let me know if I can help you further! Please click on ACCEPT if my answers so far helped you at all as this is the only way I get paid for my time and services on this site ! I will still be around if you need me further ! Feedback and Bonus are also greatly appreciated . Thanks! Let me know what you find ! I am curious !
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Would like correct diagram if possible

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
Will try again at work tonight , to find the correct diagram for you but doesn't look good ! Our shop burnt down to the ground back in 2004 and we lost the older manuals ! Will see if I can find something ! Have you tried grounding the white #10 gauge wire somewhere else to see if it is a ground problem somewhere down the harness?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

verified ground at processor plug with headlight from hot at processor wire. gona order processor. both are # XXXXX so im assuming the same as you. if its ok im gona leave this open with you till its running. thanks brian

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.

Ok ! Let me know how it goes !Good luck !

Customer: replied 2 years ago.


finnaly got it but what a %ucked up deal. put in a idm and it took right off. fixed huh....not. changed the fuel filter and wouldnt go, air right.... not. bled and bled some more, ok what happened to the new idm? unhooked computer. hit power in with a test lite, good. at the relay out, good, at relay in, good. hit relay in with 9004 bulb, good. out, nothing ???? tried again after i put test leads back on bulb because they fell off and had power both sides??? screw around for a while and realized that when i put the leads back on that im now on the low beam (less amp draw). the amp draw on the processor is enough to drop the relay out, like "high beam" but the relay would stay in on the "low beam" draw. checked power at processor in with low amp draw, good. pluged in processot and back probed connector, nothing. hit relay with screwdriver and had power and started. bang on relay for awile and it lost power again, bang on relay for awile again and ipower came back and started. freeking intermittent relay. wont trust testing one again, im just gona replace it on a no start before i do anything else. cant get one aftermarket and my ihc dealer said they only sell about 2 a year. out of stock, special order for friday. hope yard takes processor back??? thanks for the help and the diagirams

Expert:  Andy replied 2 years ago.
No problem! wish I could have helped you further! If you ever need any International questions answered?, ust ask for Andy! TAKE CARE!
Andy, Technician
Satisfied Customers: 866
Experience: International trucks, International, Maxxforce and Cummins engines, diagnostic, electrical, Hvac and refrigeration repairs
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