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Dr. Thomas, MD
Dr. Thomas, MD, Board Certified Physician
Category: Medical
Satisfied Customers: 56015
Experience:  Internal Medicine--practice all of internal medicine, all ages, family, also Integrative, CAM, etc
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Currently taking Atenolol 25mg, Verapamil 180mg, and Hydrochlorothiazide 25mg for hyperten

Resolved Question:

Currently taking Atenolol 25mg, Verapamil 180mg, and Hydrochlorothiazide 25mg for hypertension control. Last Saturday I was diagnosed with a gallstone at Cape Cod Hospital. No infection detected. Expectedly, the Butchers of the Dark Ages at the hospital recommended the amputation of my perfectly healthy gallbladder- which would of course result in the eternal dripping of bile from the liver into the intestines (severely increasing the chance of gastro-cancer which I've already had before), and which does not prevent the recurrence of gallstones (which can develop in the bile duct). I refused. Instead I will use clinically-proven GALLCLEANSE I&II which molecularly breaks down gallstones. However, II contains Curcumin said to reduce blood pressure and cause gallbladder contraction. I have no doctor to consult, nor do I have medical insurance (rejected for previous conditions). Any advise on curcumin with my conditions are appreciated (feel free to step out of the Harvard box) THANK YOU!!
Submitted: 11 months ago.
Category: Medical
Expert:  Dr. Thomas, MD replied 11 months ago.
Hello
We can not replace your doctors, the purpose of the site is not medical advice but to answer questions.

Let me clarify your question.

I think it is, will curcumin cause gallbladder contractions?
Expert:  Dr. Thomas, MD replied 11 months ago.
just use reply
your post came back but no post from you
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


My question is whether or not my health and/or life are in jeopardy by taking curcumin while taking blood pressure medication AND while having a gallstone. In a study by the Dept of Physiology at the V.P. Chest Institute in Dehli, "animals treated with turmeric curcumin showed a lowering of blood pressure and individuals using high blood pressure medications should consult a physician." Also, "people with gallstones may be affected [because] curcumin causes the gallbladder to contract according to the Linus Pauling Institute and should consult a physician before using curcumin." - quotes from LiveStrong.com

Expert:  Dr. Thomas, MD replied 11 months ago.
In fact the actual incidence of both problems with curcumin are not known . There appears to be the risk that it can further lower your BP in conjunction with BP meds. The incidence of any gallbladder contractions in humans is probably low, but uncertain.

No gallbladder cleanse has been clinically proven to get rid of gallstones....so I don't know where you get this information.

Clinically proven is a much abused term, but does not refer to definitive clinical trials in humans, in most cases.

If you give me a link to this supposed proof I can help you with this
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


Your attitude stinks. You're apparently one of those superskeptical, ego-maniacal doctors who cannot think outside of the university medicine god box. Put your scalpel away, doctor; your services are no longer required. (P.S.... YOU are the doctor - YOU go look it up. I found the proof; why haven't you?) Goodbye.

Expert:  Dr. Thomas, MD replied 11 months ago.
First of all, you have not stated a brand, for the gallcleanse, and there is more than one.

Show me the link you found the product at and I will take a look.

I find no peer reviewed studies in the national data base involving people and any product of this name.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

http://gallstonesite.com/


http://www.heranswer.com/GallCleanse.asp


 


I also recommend reading the independent reviews from users of the product on Amazon.com

Expert:  Dr. Thomas, MD replied 11 months ago.
I see no clinical trial mentioned or link to an actual peer reviewed article

Do you?
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
Relist: Answer quality.
Give me a doctor who isn't pompously arrogant and can act like a human being for a few minutes.
Expert:  Dr. Thomas, MD replied 11 months ago.
No one has taken your relist
I am not sure why you think this way

I find no studies on this product at all.
Only that they say clinically proven on the web site.

Is there something I am missing?
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Dr. Thomas, if you cannot think outside of a robotic "clinically proven", I cannot consider you an honest doctor. Now, "My question is whether or not my health and/or life are in jeopardy by taking curcumin while taking blood pressure medication AND while having a gallstone." Can you, as a human being with a grasp of the workings of the human body, contribute in any way to a helpful resolution to my question?

Expert:  Dr. Thomas, MD replied 11 months ago.
In fact I am board certified in internal medicine and integrative medicine.

It is quite clear that this is not a clinically proven product.

There in lies the danger, beyond the dangers , potentially, of drug interactions with curcumin.

The biggest risk with curcumin is with medications that are anticoagulant, in promoting bleeding.

Whether it will have the other effects that you mention is speculative, with no real data. It is an educated guess at best.

I have never seen gallbladder spasm from dietary use of curcumin. Large quantities are a concern perhaps.

The danger here is in trying to dissolve a stone, if the gallbladder is in trouble. If the gallbladder is obstructed, we would not even use medicines to dissolve stones..yes there are prescription medicines that dissolve stones. The problem is, that dissolving stones does not cure the tendency to form stones and they tend to come back, to that is why surgery is still preferred. If the gallbladder becomes critical while you are experimenting, then this becomes life threatening. I consider that a much bigger threat than using curcumin. I also respect the Pauling institute and if they have a data based that indicates curcumin causes gallbladder spasm then I would suggest, do not use it.

One can try holistic;nutritional;homeopathic approaches, but only if supervised. We can not supervise you.

OK. If you have further questions or details, use reply to expert.
Otherwise please choose a positive rating . But, still come back if you need to…think of something later, etc. Bonuses are appreciated.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Thank you for that response. I am aware of your Board qualifications, I have read your mini-bio, and believe it or not I do respect the work that went into attaining. But I would like for you to understand that "Board Certified" is no more authoritative to me that "clinically proven" because the only real proof comes from the people who use the product, and in all of the reviews of GALLCLEANSE that I have read only one was negative - it simply didn't work for them. What scares me is your rigidity and refusal to even entertain the idea of listening to the patients' review. The same Board that certified you also certified the doctor that convinced my mother to have part of my genitals amputated when I was born "just incase" there might be complications in the future. Ripping my gall bladder out "just incase" there might be problems is not an answer, and a flippant disregard for the greater consequences of that action scares the crap out of me. I'm not trying to fight with you, Doctor; but if this online service is merely a machine that I insert $25 into to get a heartless inhuman textbook response I'd rather take my chances with the GallCleanse.


 


Now, earlier you said that no gallbladder cleanse has been clinical proven to dissolve gallstones, and you withheld until now the information that there are medications that can do it. I wonder why the hospital doctors did not inform me of this when they told me that my gallbladder was healthy. While writing this reply I called the hospital and spoke to my attending physician, Dr. Ralph Delorie, (which is the cause of my delay in response) who said that my gallbladder has several stones but is perfectly healthy and not in eminent danger.


 


You said, "Whether it will have the other effects that you mention is speculative, with no real data. It is an educated guess at best." I'm assuming that you are speaking of the blood pressure? So then, shall I conclude that you disagree with the findings of the doctors at LiveStrong.com? Or, if you do not know the answer, is there someone else there that does?


 


What I am asking of you, doctor, is to think for yourself.

Expert:  Dr. Thomas, MD replied 11 months ago.
Livstrong is fine to listen to, as long as you are erring on the side of safety. Curcumin MIGHT lower blood pressure in conjunction with other meds....not enough data, as stated.

I have no idea why your doctors did not tell you about the other medications, except for the fact that, we don't generally use them, they do not work quickly at all, have side effects, and stones come back.

Not sure what further questions you have
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Since it is apparent that trying to help me is merely a bother to you, I won't ask you any more questions. I'm a professional man myself and my time is just as valuable. However, I want to leave you with some info that I wasn't able to give before due to limited typing space in this service, regarding the GALLCLEANSE product (BTW that is the official product name produced by DISCOVERY HERBS which is the subsidiary of BIONEUTRIX). It consists of GALLCLEANS I and GALLCLEANSE II. GALLCLEANSE I contains the mentol, fennel oil and caraway oil that breaks down bile gallstones at a molecular level and is taken 3 times a day for 7 days, at the end of which GALLCLEANSE II is added twice a day.


 


The GALCLEANSE II addresses your concern about reforming stones. As I am sure you know already (but which I will say nevertheless to insure we're on the same page), the liver produces bile which is stored in the gallbladder and breaks down dietary fat when the bile is released by the gallbladder into the small intestine. Blood toxins weaken the liver [my April liver test came back as excellent] and instead of producing free flowing bile, the liver produces thick, sticky bile over-saturated with cholesterol [my cholesterol test in April showed perfect levels]. Gallstones form when this nasty bile builds up in the gallbladder. Usually, the gallbladder fully contracts and empties out bile. However, as you know, many people have gallbladders that only partly contract; this may or may not be my condition (the ER doctor didn't volunteer that info). These partial contractions leave behind bile sludge and then the cholesterol molecules in the bile sludge harden to form gallstones. (Am I understanding this incorrectly or have I properly understand how this works? I don't want to be operating from a false perspective). GALLCLEANSE II's claim is that it helps purify the liver to produce healthy bile and help prevent further gallstones.


 


 

Expert:  Dr. Thomas, MD replied 11 months ago.
If you decide to go this route [and there are more evidence based ways to approach this...I suggest you at least work with your doctors.

Ideally , you could find a functional medicine trained MD, who would be evidence based but these doctors look at underlying disease mediators and attempt to influence this, on a number of levels, usually using diet and supplements, but also basing this on lab measurement.

You can find such a doctor here
www.functionalmedicine.org

See the practitioner list, upper right.

OK. If you have further questions or details, use reply to expert.
Otherwise please choose a positive rating . But, still come back if you need to…think of something later, etc. Bonuses are appreciated.

Dr. Thomas, MD, Board Certified Physician
Category: Medical
Satisfied Customers: 56015
Experience: Internal Medicine--practice all of internal medicine, all ages, family, also Integrative, CAM, etc
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