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sprinkles08
sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Mazda
Satisfied Customers: 21967
Experience:  ASE Master and Advanced level certified. Factory trained with 15 years dealership experience
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I have a 2002 Mazda Mellienia vin###-##-####Power steering

Customer Question

I have a 2002 Mazda Mellienia vin###-##-####Power steering belt went out on freeway- wife said she saw blue and green smoke then engine lost power. Towed it home, replace crankshaft position sensor tried to start before putting belts back on. It seem to fire maybe on one cylinder but will not run. How do I get it to run again? Only has 48K miles 1st owner.
Submitted: 9 months ago.
Category: Mazda
Expert:  internal88 replied 9 months ago.
Hello, I'm Matt - Mazda tech.Is the check engine light ON?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
please release I want mazdamaster577 or drew
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Thank you
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I have tested cylinders on both banks for spark with a spark tester and it jumped the gap with a bright white flash so I think I am good on spark. I am thinking I may need to test for fuel next? I do not see a Schrader valve for a pressure test? I have a Chilton manual and the Alldata for some reason they do not seem to be of much help on this particular model.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Hello and welcome to JustAnswer!Neither of the experts you mentioned have been active in the last 1-2 years.If you do have spark then a lack of fuel is likely. It's possible that you could simply have a blown fuse or it could be a wiring or fuel pump issue.Do you hear the fuel pump run when the key is first turned on?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Rather than guess I want to check for fuel pressure. Does it have a Schroeder valve and if not what is the Mazda recommended test point and procedure for testing for fuel pressure to determine if fuel is an issue for my no start condition.
Thx
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Do you hear the pump run when the key is turned on? If the pump doesn't run then there isn't a need to check pressure with a gauge.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I hear motors running just not sure if the fuel pump or not that is why I am asking if it has a Schafer valve or recommended test point for testing fuel pressure
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Schroeder valve like many GM products?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
What engine do you have?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
2.5 v6
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
The correct way to test fuel pressure is by removing the fuel line at the filter outlet or the fuel rail inlet and installing an inline adapter with quick connects, which the fuel pressure gauge then connects to.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Where does Mazda recommend on this specific engine? Are you saying it does not have a test port like many GM & Ford?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Most modern or near modern vehicles such as this do not have test ports. They were phased out on most vehicles after the late 90's to save cost.The service information specifies testing at the fuel filter outlet but it's more common to check at the engine.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I saw that in the all data manual but I can't find the location of the filter . They talk about an inspection hole cover but I did not find it
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
You've removed the trunk carpet and were unable to locate the access hole?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I was looking from under the car did not look under the carpet...I actually found a 3/8 rubber jumper hose at the left end of the fuel rails..just was concerned about fuel spill disconnected bat and will test there as soon as I get proper hose and barb fittings
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Ok.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
it is getting interesting now.. I have fuel pressure in low 40's during crank. So I pulled a plug and sure enough it was wet and smelled like gas. So I have spark and fuel and the car was running fine until the power steering belt failed. Guess we could have just pulled the plug in the first place to check for fuel? Seems like we are down to timing and compression? what's next?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
With everything back together hold the throttle open fully and crank the engine, see if it will try to start. If it does start then you'll need to release the throttle as necessary to bring RPM's down yet keep the engine running.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I have not put the p/s belt or alternator belt back on as I was concerned about the proximity ring behind the crank pulley that sends signals to the crank sensor. Is there any chance that could have moved or is that part of the crankshaft pulley?
The belt was wrapped around it and it was a bit difficult to get it off but I think I got it all. Can I run your test with those belts off?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
If the tone wheel was damaged then it will cause erratic or no spark. It may not be a factor since you say do you have spark, but if it is damaged then it should be replaced. Yes, the engine can be started without the belts on it.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Gave it a long crank but did not fire once...Throttle was wide open tried a second time ...never fired. Put battery back on charge. I tested 4 of the 6 plugs earlier and they all had a hot white spark
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Did the problem happen not long after getting fuel?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Drove about 80 miles after getting fuel..was driving from west coast of Florida to east coast...wife pulled off for rest area noticed the p/s was not working very well. Told her to head back to west coast..interstate driving...about 25 minutes later she said the car would not accelerate. Then she saw some light blue green smoke come out from the front of the hood and pulled over to the side of road . Had transported home on flatbed
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I found the p/s belt shredded and pieces wrapped around pulleys
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Is there actual damage to the crank sensor tone wheel?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
It looks like it has 3 "trigger""points on it. Seemed like part of the belt was stuck on one trigger . I use a pick to get it off. Not really sure what it is supposed to look like. Is the tone wheel a separate piece? Could it have got spun on the crank? Do I need a timing light to sort this out?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Are you able to upload a picture of it?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
not at home right now but will do in morning. With just 3 lobes is this firing in compression and exhaust strokes
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Some ignition systems use a waste spark but not with a distributor.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
FYI just learned from a Maxda forum that the fuel pump does not run in ON when the engine is not running.https://mazda626.net/topic/38396-need-some-help/
The fuel pump isn't supposed to run in the "ON" position.It only runs when in the "START" position (and about 2 seconds after that), and when the engine speed is greater than some threshold, i.e. 150 RPM. So, yes, the crank position sensor, which is used to measure engine speed, will indeed prevent the fuel pump from running.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
since this car has a distributor and because I have spark and fuel and it seems the CKP provides a tach signal but does not trigger the spark as that is coming from the distributor...I think I am going to get a compression gauge tomorrow and make sure we have good compression?
From what I have been reading on the mazda626 forum with spark, compression, timing, and fuel it should at least be firing a bit even if it does not continue to run?I will send the pictures of the tone wheel when I crawl back under tomorrow morning,
Thanks
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
You're welcome!
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Do u agree that a defective CKP System should not prevent firing during cranking ?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
A correct crank sensor signal is needed for proper spark.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Does the crank sensor or distributor control the timing of the spark on this particular engine
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Here is the picture I took a movie in slow motion but don't know how to send. I did connect the spark plug test or and found no spark when the CKP was disconnected
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
now you have no spark on any cylinder?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I have spark on all cylinders when CKP is connected
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
The picture posted above was of a small portion of the crank damper. Can you upload a picture showing the condition of the rest of it?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Do you have an email or is there a way to post a slow motion video?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
You should be able to upload a video the same way as a picture.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I will try from computer can't seem to do it from iPhone
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Ok.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Here is the video it starts normal speed and then I switched to slo motion for more detail
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
It looks good to me
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Can you take a fuel sample to check for contamination?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
She had driven about 100 miles since the last fill at Costco I have never ever had a problem with their fuel it is the top class tier 3. Are u suggesting that the belt failure and the wiff of blue/green smoke cased the fuel to suddenly become contaminated? I guess I can drain some out at the fuel rail and see if it runs my lawnmower but this fuel concept is a real stretch
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
The belt failure doesn't appear to be related to the no start issue. If you have spark yet the fuel isn't burning then it has to be a fuel contamination issue, internal engine damage or an exhaust restriction. Taking a fuel sample to check for contamination is a simple step that will take seconds and is something that can be done without test equipment, which is the direction diagnosis heads after this.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Do u mean draining into a tube and doing a visual or taking it somewhere for analysis?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
What test equipment do I need?I am picking up the compression gauge and already have a scope
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
If u mean draining fuel and looking for water separation I have already done that. No separation no water in fuel
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Was the fuel cloudy?What color was it?Did it leave an oily residue on your hand after evaporating?How long did it take to evaporate?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
No fuel prob
Looks like I have a compression problem... Getting a long extension for my compression gauge so I can confirm I have a good seal and accurate readings. Can u tell me which is the fuel pump relay. Fuse cove and fuse layout don't seem to match although the cover fits....and all data is worthless as to location
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Ready to do compression test cannot determine which relay is for fuel fuel pump not labeled on cover of fuse block
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
You'll want to remove either the main relay or the 15 amp fuse marked as engine.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Don't know which is the main relay and no 15amp fuse that I could see marked engine. So I disconnected the CKP and checked for compression
Bank 2 4 6 is 60 15 60lb
Bank 1 3 5 is 0. 0. 15lb
Does not look good
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
You either have incorrect cam timing, internal engine damage, or a combination of both. The cylinders with 0 compression may have bent valves.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
the engine was running fine till the problem with the p/s belt. As a Mazda mechanic from your knowledge how did we get from a shredded belt to damaged cylinders and bent valves?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
The belt breaking isn't related to the no start condition.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Or incorrect cam timing?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
The belt breaking isn't related to the no start condition.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
the belt broke and 20 minutes later I have all these problems and they are not related?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
Correct, the belt breaking didn't cause an internal engine issue.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
the fuel pump should run when the key is in the on position?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Before the engine starts?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
The fuel pump will run for about one second when the key is turned on.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Just curious what qualifies u as a Mazda mechanic?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
what would be the purpose of the fuel pump running for 1 second when u turn the key on?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
The fuel pump runs briefly on all fuel injected vehicles when the key is turned on to build pressure in the system.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I appreciate u trying to help me but u are actually giving me general information an not Mazda 2.5 V6 info. If you would have followed my link from above you would have realized that the This engine does not prime or run for 1 sec when u first turn to the on position
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
I'm not giving you general information and am being specific to your problem. The fuel pump runs at key on with any fuel injected vehicle and then while cranking if the cam and crank signals are present and in sync. You can disregard most of what you read on forums as most of it is written by amateurs rather than professionals with any experience or training. Fuel pressure isn't even in question anyway, you have internal engine damage.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Read the 6th & 7 post down on the link I sent you. My actual test results were the same as their posts
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
There is no reason to be concerned with fuel pressure, you have internal engine damage.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Again I appreciate u trying to help but u have not answered the question "Just curious what qualifies u as a Mazda mechanic?" Also u are unwilling to admit u were mistaken on the fuel pump issue. Had I followed your original advice w/o researching further on my own I would have purchased a fuel pump.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
If the site had not verified my ability to answer your question it would not have been possible to respond.I'm not mistaken on fuel pump operation nor did I recommend replacing the pump at any time. The only way I would have recommended replacing the pump is if pressure was low as verified with a gauge or the pump didn't run at all and the pump's power and ground load tested correctly.Again, fuel pressure is a moot point because you have internal engine damage.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
quot;If the site had not verified my ability to answer your question it would not have been possible to respond."Yes it is a good thing I found that site .I also know u think (incorrectly)the belt and engine problems are not related.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
The breaking of a serpentine belt cannot cause internal engine damage unless the water pump is driven by the belt and the engine is allowed to overheat until damage is done. This water pump is driven by the timing belt.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Look up what all is driven by the p/s belt and u will figure it out.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
If you need help with the engine repair let me know.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Unfortunately I have lost confidence in your answers at this point
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
I did locate the discrepancy in the service information regarding water pump drive; unfortunately I wasn't aware that the engine was allowed to overheat until it died.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
There was no discrepancy in the service info. Your answer was just Wrong and you argued u were right. People with integrity admit when they make a mistake. U just try to spin. If I had not shown u that the p/s belt drove the water pump you would still be thinking it was driven by the timing belt. At your 11:36 post you say "this water pump is driven by the timing belt" That is false !
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 9 months ago.
I wish you luck with your repair.