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Based off my own researches, based off the wording of both Indiana and US Constitutions, because I am not property of State or Federal Governments and because I am not property of Counties or Corporate Cities it seems logical to me that my name is XXXXX XXXXX
I am trying to find the parameters in which I must answer to "Identify" questions by Law Enforcement Personnel. I understand that Indiana is a "Stop and ID" state. I am wanting to understand what would warrant Law Enforcement personnel to invoke their authority regarding identifying persons. In what situations do they have authority and which do they not have authority to identify persons.
To be clear I am not citing a situation that has happened to me lately. There is no case on going that I am discussing. I am simply looking to be made aware of my own rights as well as the Authority of the Law Enforcement Personnel to Demand ID as well as when those Demands are unlawful.
I can for see myself not wanting to give out my information if I am passenger in an Automobile at a police stop, check point or possibly a scene of an accident. I can for see myself not wanting to give out my information when I am walking down the street/sidewalk. I can for see myself not wanting to give out my personal information if a Law Enforcement officer comes to my address to ask questions.
To answer your questions directly.
No crimes were committed.
My answer would not be an admission to a crime.
*However, If my answer were an admission to a crime I would not answer and be within my rights.
Thank you for your help!
You state that Law Enforcement can ask at any time and that I must comply unless I would be admitting to a crime.
Law Enforcement doesn't have to have reasonable suspicion of a crime to demand for me to Identify myself? I understand that any body can ask for anything at any time. Asking is not what I'm discussing. Legally having authority to demand ID is the subject.
So Law Enforcement can walk right up to me, give me no reasons and demand me to identify my self and I must comply?
Relist: Inaccurate answer. "Starr V. Indiana" States that there are at minimum some guidelines regarding when I must comply with Law Enforcement's request to identify myself. I asked for a detailed answer and promised to pay for one. I believe I was given a vague answer when answer came back that only time I was legally not obliged to Identify myself was when I would be violating my 5th amendment rights.
I only read "Starr V. Indiana" after you referred me to the Hiibel case. The Link to Hiibel and a subsequent search got me to the Starr case. So I was unaware of Starr V Indiana when I originally asked my question.
Thank you for the link as that site is very informative.
I mentioned Starr V. Indiana because when I read the Decision I became aware of a "Good Faith" obligation of LEO's in Indiana. If I understand correctly a LEO must in "good faith" believe that a statute or ordinance infraction has occurred to Lawfully Demand that a person Identify Themselves.
This is all I'm after. I want to know when I can refuse to ID myself. It seems that there are some parameters or protocol out there that a LEO must work with before Lawfully Demanding a person Identify themselves.
Can you confirm this? Can you cite the law which discusses Good Faith and perhaps give your interpretation?
Or, am I incorrect and a LEO can at any time with no good faith belief, reasonable suspicion or any other basis or parameters Lawfully demand a citizen ID themselves. To me this just Smacks of being Unconstitutional and again I am reading and finding information which suggests that there are indeed guidelines that must first be meet.
I'm not trying to be difficult. I only opened my question up to other experts because the timer had ticked down and I imagined you were busy with other questions. Plus getting other opinions can't be a bad thing. Plus a option box appeared on my screen for me to do so and I really didn't give it much thought about how this could possibly insult you or your colleagues.
Thank you for your help so far and I'm eager to hear your response!
Dumb Guy Who Wants to Understand His Rights
That is interesting! I will follow that case.
So, no discussion about definition of Good Faith. No confirmation regarding if "Good Faith Belief" is in fact protocol which must be meet prior to Lawfully Ordering a Citizen to ID themselves?
This is a pretty cool video about a LEO standing up for a citizen's Constitutional Rights. I'd urge you to watch the whole video if you have the time. If not please at least view starting at 10 min mark. At 10min 20sec mark the Deputy states that the Cameraman "is not doing anything wrong and if I ask him for his ID he does not have to give it to me".
New York is a Stop and Identify State. Is this cop just making up stuff to get out of the Jam and settle things down a bit or does this part of the video, like other videos I've seen and cases I've read, suggest that there needs to be evidence, a good faith belief, reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed, already committed or about to be committed to permit the LEO to legally Demand ID. Again, I understand that anyone can ask for anything at anytime, regardless if you are LEO, Citizen, President, Illegal Allien, Etc.
Yes, I certainly am understanding what you mean about the varieties of Laws. Unfortunately it seems you have to be a lawyer or devote years of study to be able to begin to understand how answering a question might impact the rest of your life. What a Country!! =)
Just found this.
About 1/4 way down the page you will find the below copied Indiana Code regarding Detention and refusal to ID.
IC 34-28-5-3Detention Sec. 3. Whenever a law enforcement officer believes in good faith that a person has committed an infraction or ordinance violation, the law enforcement officer may detain that person for a time sufficient to: (1) inform the person of the allegation; (2) obtain the person's: (A) name, address, and date of birth; or (B) driver's license, if in the person's possession; and (3) allow the person to execute a notice to appear.As added by P.L.1-1998, SEC.24.
IC 34-28-5-3.5Refusal to identify self Sec. 3.5. A person who knowingly or intentionally refuses to provide either the person's: (1) name, address, and date of birth; or (2) driver's license, if in the person's possession;to a law enforcement officer who has stopped the person for an infraction or ordinance violation commits a Class C misdemeanor.
This seems to me to state that The LEO encounter must pass on from the Consensual discussion phase and proceed into the Detention phase of the Stop in order for LEO to legally Order a Citizen to ID themselves. The above Indiana Code ( or is it statute?) discusses Good Faith Belief of an infraction or ordinance violation to initiate the Detention phase of the encounter.
Am I wrong? Through my ignorance of the law am I making a mistake and not reading the correct Codes?
Can you define "Good Faith" within the context of these Codes? I have looked and can't seem to find one. I'm sure I just don't know the proper place to look.
Thank you for the Information and for sharing that Supreme Court Case with me.
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