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Alexia Esq.
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Experience:  19 Years of Legal Practice Experience in this precise field.
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I have an IRS question. It concerns an OIC. I want to know

Customer Question

I have an IRS question. It concerns an OIC. I want to know exactly when the statute stops running when the offer is submitted and exactly when the statutes starts running again once it is denied. I am unable to find a clear answer in the IRS Code.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Legal
Expert:  Thomas McJD replied 1 year ago.

TMcJD :

Hi, I will be happy to assist you, and it is my goal to make you a very satisfied customer! This may take a few minutes, so thanks for your patience.

TMcJD :

I may not completely understand your question, so please reply and let me know if I do not. However, once you submit the offer, it is deemed accepted unless it is rejected within 24 months after offering settlement. Thus, the 2 years starts running when the offer is submitted and stops at the expiration of the 2 years.

Expert:  Thomas McJD replied 1 year ago.
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Customer: replied 1 year ago.

This answer does not even come close to responding to the question.


ONCE AN OIC IS REJECTED----WHEN EXACTLY WHEN DOES THE STATUTE START RUNNING AGAIN.

Expert:  Alexia Esq. replied 1 year ago.

Hi, thanks for your inquiry! I have been practicing law for 17+ years and have also been involved in the OIC area. I believe I understand your question:

In a nutshell - On the date the IRS accepts the OIC for processing, the tolling of the SOL begings. The tolling stops 30 days after the rejection (unless the rejection is appealed during those 30 days).

As you know, the general SOL for collections is 10 years. However, it is tolled by the Offer in Compromise, (see below) and remains tolled during the time the IRS is considering the offer PLUS 30 days after rejection. Thus, if your tax was "assessed" (I.e. considered "finalized") in 1/2011, and in 1/2013 you (being late) submitted an OIC, the SOL is tolled until 30 days after you get that rejection. 2 years have been used up, 8 to go. Those 8 year remaining start to run 30 days after the IRS rejects your OIC. (Unless you appeal the rejection within 30 days, the SOL is tolled additionall during that appeal).

Here are your code sections:

26 USC § 6331 - Levy and distraint

(i) No levy during pendency of proceedings for refund of divisible tax
...
(5) Suspension of statute of limitations on collection

The period of limitations under section 6502 shall be suspended for the period during which the Secretary is prohibited under this subsection from making a levy.

(k) No levy while certain offers pending or installment agreement pending or in effect

(1) Offer-in-compromise pending
No levy may be made under subsection (a) on the property or rights to property of any person with respect to any unpaid tax—
(A) during the period that an offer-in-compromise by such person under section 7122 of such unpaid tax is pending with the Secretary; and
(B) if such offer is rejected by the Secretary, during the 30 days thereafter (and, if an appeal of such rejection is filed within such 30 days, during the period that such appeal is pending).
For purposes of subparagraph (A), an offer is pending beginning on the date the Secretary accepts such offer for processing.


I hope this helps! Let me know if you need follow up before or after RATING me. And PLEASE know that my job depends on a POSITIVE rating now and at least an 8-10 feedback rating later. Thanks! I won't forget your support.

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Alexia Esq.



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Repeat reminder: Due to rules of our states, nothing herein is intended as legal advice, only intended as general information in order that you may have a starting point for helping yourself and presenting your issue to your lawyer if need be. I am an Attorney in the U.S. but I am not your attorney.



Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Ok---good answer. Let's try to pin this down. Under FOIA I received a document called AO Offer---my request was for a summary/ history/ Final Status of the Offer.


It give the date received---which is not my concern. However in regards XXXXX XXXXX the offer was rejected it gives this-


AO Disposition Date 11/10/2009


AO Closed Date 11/13/2009


 


So--- which is the EXACT date that the 30 day period begins?


And to be specific-the date that the Statute will stop tolling and start running again

Expert:  Alexia Esq. replied 1 year ago.
Hi again, I see you have some additional questions beyond your original. I will seek to touch on them, to the extent possible. Any new questions, however, should likely be placed in a new transaction post of your choice, so as to maintain the integrity of this thread (and keep me out of trouble). Thanks for understanding.

With regard to your follow up:

Ok---good answer. Thank you.


Let's try to pin this down. Under FOIA I received a document called AO Offer---my request was for a summary/ history/ Final Status of the Offer. OK.


It give the date received---which is not my concern. However in regards XXXXX XXXXX the offer was rejected it gives this- Actually, that doesn't tell us much, as these are internal codes, not those used by us. However, if your matter was a AOIC matter we can likely figure it out.




Update AO Offer Final Disposition
Update Final Disposition
  • Select "3 - Rejection Sustained"

  • Input the mail date of the rejection letter with appeal rights

  • Input the mail date of the Appeals rejection letter

  • Input the RCP amount (from Form 5402). If "0" or no amount is given on the 5402, use the IMFOLI/BMFOLI "total assessed balance" from IDRS)

  • Select "Submit" and return to AO Offer screen

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part8/irm_08-023-006.html

AO Disposition Date 11/10/2009 So, this would be the mail date of the rejection letter, be it the initial rejection or if it was appealed, the Appeals rejection.


AO Closed Date 11/13/2009 This should be the date that they closed out, as in, nothing left to do unless you appeal.


As such, I'd cound 11/10/2009 as the rejection date, and count 30 days from there, unless I secured a copy of my rejection letter that said otherwise.



So--- which is the EXACT date that the 30 day period begins? The date AFTER the date on the rejection letter. (The appeal period: "Treasury Regulation(NNN) NNN-NNNN1(f)(5) further provides that a taxpayer may administratively appeal the rejection of an offer to the IRS Office of Appeals if, within the 30-day period commencing the day after the date on the letter of rejection, the taxpayer requests such an administrative review in the manner provided by the Secretary."http://www.irs.gov/irm/part8/irm_08-023-001.html)


And to be specific-the date that the Statute will stop tolling and start running again. I do not do that math, I leave that to my accountant. However, determine the DATE on your rejection letter (and perhaps a copy of that should have been requested via FOIA, since that is your trigger date) or if an AOIC system case, the disposition date should be where they put in the rejection letter date, so I'd likely use 11/10/2009. So, let's say your rejection date on your letter was 11/10/2009 (a Tuesday) , then day 1 is 11/11/2009 and day 30 is 12/10/2009 (a Thursday) (unless it falls on a holiday, then it pushes to the next day). The next day, is not tolled/ the tolling stops, so that would be 12/11/2009 (a Friday).


I hope this helps! Let me know if you need follow up before or after RATING me. And PLEASE know that my job depends on a POSITIVE rating now and at least an 8-10 feedback rating later. Thanks! I won't forget your support.

Sincerely,

Alexia Esq.



-------



I think this is what you wanted to know. If not, please let me know and we can interact further. Otherwise, I wish you the best and ask that you Rate me now. HINT: I aim to provide only EXCELLENT SERVICE and ask that you click a rating on the RIGHT side of the choices OR, follow up with me if you need more follow up or clarification. AND, WHEN YOU DO RATE ME POSITIVELY, PLEASE SEND ME A REPLY LETTING ME KNOW YOU ARE DOING SO, SO WE CAN ENSURE IT GETS RECORDED. THANKS!



You can ask for me directly in the future by starting your post with "To Alexia Esq." Or bookmark this page, and go to: http://www.justanswer.com/law/expert-AlexiaEsq/



Repeat reminder: Due to rules of our states, nothing herein is intended as legal advice, only intended as general information in order that you may have a starting point for helping yourself and presenting your issue to your lawyer if need be. I am an Attorney in the U.S. but I am not your attorney.




Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Ok----this was all re-the same question so would not require being closed out & starting a new thread.


 


You did a great job answering my question----


 


FYI--the reason I am being so nit-picky abut pinning down the date is that I submitted 2 offers and the 1st time they 'sat' on it for 18 months & the 2nd for 23 mo! which totally against (their) rules -with the statute tolling for a total of 41 months with no recourse. All of this time I have a partial payment agreement ---with significant payments each month---which is another violation--should be suspended.


Just thought you could use this experience in helping other clients of yours. I have had many skirmishes with them and won most of them.


4 keys to success-


1. Lawyer up


2. Do your own homework---don't just take your lawyers word for it---


they are correct apprx 50% of the time.


3. Don't believe the IRS---they play fair----but very often don't even know their own codes---sometimes have to clarify things for them.


4. Have big balls!


Thanks

Expert:  Alexia Esq. replied 1 year ago.

Ok----this was all re-the same question so would not require being closed out & starting a new thread. Except you were now asking for an interpretation of the meaning of some internally used code words. As you can imagine, that is an entirely different line of research, unrelated specifically to SOL. Trust me, been doing legal work for 18 years...


 


You did a great job answering my question----Thank you.


 


FYI--the reason I am being so nit-picky abut pinning down the date is that I submitted 2 offers and the 1st time they 'sat' on it for 18 months Which I understand is OK, however annoying...

 

& the 2nd for 23 mo! Under 24 months also... Which rule are you arguing they violated? which totally against (their) rules -with the statute tolling for a total of 41 months with no recourse. There can be many tolls, depending on case actions taken by a taxpayer.

 

All of this time I have a partial payment installment agreement -- Great! ---with significant payments each month---which is another violation--should be suspended. Unless in that agreement, or connected to it, there was a provision for extension of the CSED... But if not, you could use that as an affirmative defense and defeat any lawsuit, you agree?


Just thought you could use this experience in helping other clients of yours. I have had many skirmishes with them and won most of them.Congratulations :)


4 keys to success-


1. Lawyer up Specificially, use a tax lawyer.


2. Do your own homework---don't just take your lawyers word for it--- always a good idea.


they are correct apprx 50% of the time. Really? You have had a tax lawyer that misguided you as per the laws? Sounds like malpractice to me, if damages resulted to you.


3. Don't believe the IRS---they play fair----but very often don't even know their own codes---sometimes have to clarify things for them. Does that mean you got your CSED corrected based on no extension due to PPIA?


4. Have big balls! Lol, or big something else, if the shoe fits :)


Thanks Welcome.

Alexia Esq., Managing Attorney
Category: Legal
Satisfied Customers: 11694
Experience: 19 Years of Legal Practice Experience in this precise field.
Alexia Esq. and 15 other Legal Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Lastly then I am done hounding you. BTW-I am not a tax radical jerk kind of guy. I just assume responsibility for my role in this stuff.


 


1. Yes Tax Attorney---still gotta motivate them sometimes---sqeeky wheel


 


(avoid enrolled agents at all costs)


 


2. My experience is that when THEY understand the rules they do what they say they will.


 


3. They could not find my OIC documents---I went THERE -to them & they found it and then we were cool---you just can't get anything done on the phone.


4. Actually not malpractice---lazy 'too busy' often sloppy to details & are either intimidated by or don't want to 'buck' RO's or Judges.

Expert:  Alexia Esq. replied 1 year ago.

Lastly then I am done hounding you. lol.

 

BTW-I am not a tax radical jerk kind of guy. I just assume responsibility for my role in this stuff. I hear you.



1. Yes Tax Attorney---still gotta motivate them sometimes---sqeeky wheel Money talks, I am sure :) The big motivator.



(avoid enrolled agents at all costs)



2. My experience is that when THEY understand the rules they do what they say they will.Now, I am concerned about you, lol. You indicate you have been down this road numerous times. What is it that you are doing wrong with your taxes that puts you into this disadvantage, having to fight these battles?



3. They could not find my OIC documents---I went THERE -to them & they found it and then we were cool---you just can't get anything done on the phone. True, often times.


4. Actually not malpractice---lazy 'too busy' often sloppy to details & are either intimidated by or don't want to 'buck' RO's or Judges. So perhaps you need to put in your contract that your are hiring him to do X, Y Z in terms of bucking a Judge. As to "too busy" if that is your lawyer, paid for to do what he says he is to busy for, that can very well be malpractice. But, if he didn't make that promise in your contract, then he is not beholden to do it for you. ANd sloppy? That would be malpractice unless it is not really sloppy (which imlies a screw up), but in a different vein than you would do it.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

The skinny IS that 15 yrs ago I did something stupid----I did not file for 6 years----well-I am a doctor and they decided to criminally prosecute me and proceeded to make me a poster boy & was in mags like Fortune--all of those kind.


Other than that part of it -it has not been a bad ride. I learned to put them on notice that I learned the ground rules -done my home work and studied the codes re to me. I have really done this casually---rarely 'fighting with them--going sometimes 1-2 yrs not hearing from them.


One thing they did was---I had to forensically recreate the #'s for those missing yrs- submitted it to them----17 mo later they kicked them back to me saying they would not accept them. It tool about 12 yrs to get these returns assessed to get the statute running!


It's actually been kinda fun--like a hobby--I got to know some of these guys. Right now---haven't heard from them---almost a yr---letting the statute run out-----wrapping up loose ends -like what i asked you about.


Just got off the phone with the IRS-finally got to the OIC dept---and they said they could not tell me---what I asked you.-wow!

Expert:  Alexia Esq. replied 1 year ago.

The skinny IS that 15 yrs ago I did something stupid----I did not file for 6 years----Ouch! ALthough, I'll tell you, depending on the circumstances, if self-employed, and with med school loans (for me, law school loans), sometimes I feel there is hardly enough to pay the monthly payments, on top of mortgage, bills, etc. (kids), that quarterly estimated tax bill is TOUGH....

 

well-I am a doctor and they decided to criminally prosecute me and proceeded to make me a poster boy & was in mags like Fortune--all of those kind.Ouch! Was it evasion? vs. not filing? (Is there a meaningful difference if they choose to prosecute?)


Other than that part of it -it has not been a bad ride. I learned to put them on notice that I learned the ground rules -done my home work and studied the codes re to me. I have really done this casually---rarely 'fighting with them--going sometimes 1-2 yrs not hearing from them. And it is all not over yet, huh?


One thing they did was---I had to forensically recreate the #'s for those missing yrs- submitted it to them----Oh, yes, I had a friend that had to do the same. It was incredible. And, I suspect the taxpayer loses out big, because really, can you recreate missng evidence ALWAYS? His was far more years than 6, so I think he lost out on a lot of business expenses, etc., it was early 90s and lets face it, the digital storage world was not as it is today.

 

17 mo later they kicked them back to me saying they would not accept them. Hmm. It tool about 12 yrs to get these returns assessed to get the statute running! AH! To get the "final" assessed bill SO YOU CAN GET the start of your SOL. That is incredible!


It's actually been kinda fun--like a hobby--You do seem pretty calm about it!

 

I got to know some of these guys. Right now---haven't heard from them---almost a yr---letting the statute run out-----wrapping up loose ends -like what i asked you about.I see.


Just got off the phone with the IRS-finally got to the OIC dept---and they said they could not tell me---what I asked you.-wow! That is such a load of crap, and totally unfair. Why would then not tell you the statute of limtiations THEY plan on holding you too? Rude. Probably a clerk who really hasn't a clue. I do a lot of SS work and 50% (my estimate) of the statements they make to claimants are WRONG. Always appeal if you don't agree....

 


Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Tax Evasion- Failure to file / employment tax-part time employee-wife-under the table. 43 mo---Fed Prison


Calm? yes---once you've been to the 'big house' civil stuff is insignificant.


 


Current status---on SSDI -no assets so they get the 15% they can from 1'400.00 per mo.


Actually live in a beautiful house----they are not talking real estate---in most cases these days.


Quite a story huh?


 

Expert:  Alexia Esq. replied 1 year ago.



Tax Evasion- Failure to file / employment tax-part time employee-wife-under the table. 43 mo---Fed Prison Oh no!


Calm? yes---once you've been to the 'big house' civil stuff is insignificant. I understand!!



Current status---on SSDI -no assets so they get the 15% they can from 1'400.00 per mo.


Actually live in a beautiful house----they are not talking real estate---in most cases these days. Excellent.


Quite a story huh? Yes, book worthy!

Alexia Esq., Managing Attorney
Category: Legal
Satisfied Customers: 11694
Experience: 19 Years of Legal Practice Experience in this precise field.
Alexia Esq. and 15 other Legal Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

BTW--I can tell you are really cool on this stuff & beyond it. I am going to use you for all of this kind of stuff---only no more long winded bs-you don't need that.


 


BTW--there is so much more to the story----FBI-US Treasury---guys with guns----have been approached for a book several times.


Some day when we are both board I will fill you in-horrifying & hilarious.


 


Thanks for everything---I can tell you are a pro---& I should be able to tell.

Expert:  Alexia Esq. replied 1 year ago.
You are very kind, thanks for the words. Have a great week!

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