i didn't make it to the courthouse however I am going to motion for a hearing for shortened time on monday for a hearing on the 16th and hope he will sign the ex parte order. it says one time and the trustee had already granted extra time and the judge is probably aware since he signed the motion/order at a hearing for extension for objection because it took some time to get the schedules done. I was wondering a few things, Should I state on Sch A or D or F "wholly unsecured junior lien?" and my other question is because I am requesting shortening time for the motions to avoid the lien as ex parte, which the book says is rarely granted, except for good cause, could me just finding out who creditors were on the home be good cause? People knocking down my door and me needing to take a 4 unit course in Law in 4 weeks didn't leave me much time for sleep, eating or my kids or paying bills and taking care of house? I am also physically in very bad shape due to needing a back surgery which my doctor says I should have had by now. My 4th btw was like my 5th and 6th. wondering what to do, reviewing everything over and over, etc. I just don't know what an extension for good cause to extend the d/c date r/t new information and me needing to file motions (which I will do the same time as for shortened time hearing) would be. Will the clerk even give me a hearing date 28 days or actually 22 days after the last day to object by creditors?
Country relating to Question: United States
State (if USA): California
I can notice them via fax and call but calls take an hour and they are high school grads that are scripted so if i ask something outside their scripted answers they just transfer and transfer. anyway I shouldn't request time (shortened for notice of motion hearing for liens) and extended (to hear motions in bk court) ex parte? I can get a hearing to hear shortened notice time (which should be fine since they have been aware for months of our filing) the clerk gave me the date of the 16th or shoot, now i don't know maybe the 15th, but i thought i said so. i'm gettin organized again. Maybe I should motion for conversion to 13? better chance? and move along that way? only thing is the "plan" no education on that one except a % of my debts, but all? even the liens i'm motioning to void? well hope your havin a great day and once i have my docs in a row, i'll be back
Fax would be sufficient and actually better since you can show what you communicated through a fax and show that it was received.
You can always request more time, the judge just won't grant things ex parte unless there is an emergency need for it. If you can show you gave notice, it will always give the judge more support to grant your motion.
If you do a motion to convert to chapter 13, I will be here to help you. The plan will take some time and effort but it is doable.
I am actually changing and going to do motions to avoid lien later now i'm doing an adv pro. but still fixin sch f and MC list. i have one address listed on sch F for a debt and used the address on MC list from my Credit Report-therefore same creditor name but 2 diff addresses on sch f and MC list. should I change it on Sch F to reflect MC list address? I wish I could just make changes and additions to SCH F but I have to rewrite the entire thing? it didn't save on my computer. Or can i just file "corrected" "added" on a new Sch F? (clarifying: I have to do a whole new F with old ones as well as new/changed ones?)
I don't know what to put on schedule F for consideration of claim, should I just put unsure? It was a lender/servicer/mortgage that was transferred and they say I don't owe them any money but it wasn't recorded ever and I believe is floating around somewhere
how funny i just got on, it was an all nighter and i surprised my kids and showed up at church and woke up with 20 questions for you :)
can i just change "real property on sch C and say everything else is the same? otherwise i have to type it all out again cuz im using us court forms and no room and it didnt save the original, or i can white out original and change the r.p. value and total?
neither lender has an attny cuz im pro se and now i think along w/ my amendments i better do the motion pursuant to 522 and it looks like frm what i read i can do 544 since Trustee didnt to void unperfected lien. i fell asleep after church reading our chats cuz after finally finishing sch D and putting the loans from both houses except original Loan (which was transferred but is the Beneficiary they are foreclosing in) as the "original lien" on Sch D as the loan. I put "T i L A " violations next to the name of the other 2 lenders that never recorded and broke the chain, but since they think i'm an idiot and am pro se and turns out the attny that the current thieves said to call is not their attny. I had called them repeatedly for their address and then their main guy said they aren't their attny yet cuz they didn't lift the stay and they weren't retained. and the current lender's contact for me never will talk to me or answer my questions and had said i need to talk to their attny. I can also void their lien cuz its junior and recorded within 90 days, but that is on the house I didn't exempt and then the Trustee will take it. the Trustee is on vacation but i emailed him i'm amending and i just found out who Creditor was after hours of calls and really found out from the C F P B.
I don't know what to put on the Statement of Intention either for the non exempt house that I am really living in, but its ok from what i read because my children and mother live in the house I exempted and all my belongings are there and on sch A i put i live 50
percent in this non exempt house and do business here and it has my mailing address on non exempt and property address of exempt house. but can i put "retain" on S of I and motion to void its lien same time? or I can do a broken chain suit after 7, and then file 13 after d/c. will my motion to void unperfect ed lien postpone d/c of ch 7? I need to inform the judge about my change in statement of intention i believe cuz book says it has to be done within 30 or 35 days of 341 which is long passed
botXXX XXne, i want to keep both houses, like i said, i have more money in to them than they are worth and the non exempt home is all wrong anyway and I can prove that and they cant prove otherwise
my daughter is going to come over in 1/2 hour and we were going to go to gym and my first time in 2 months and i was going to read about St of intention cuz i dont know if they will say its too late. i have the fax number to fax now the motion to void lien to lender so i can get them Noticed and get it on calendar, but like i said, it will be after the last day for objection. that isn't the same date as d/c of bk is it?
i was going to read on treadmill but i have preprinted forms so doing voiding of lien shouldn't be so hard, because i don't have to do MP&A or complaint right, just a simple void since its not recorded/perfected
so big ? is statement of intention.....since its changing.....do i need to motion and write order to accept it and self set hearing? and can i write my intention is to keep both houses? or should i work on non exempt house after ch 7 d/c and file ch 13? and do complaint?
(h) The debtor may avoid a transfer of property of the debtor or recover a setoff to the extent that the debtor could have exempted such property under subsection (g)(1) of this section if the trustee had avoided such transfer, if—(1) such transfer is avoidable by the trustee under section 544, 545, 547, 548, 549, or 724 (a) of this title or recoverable by the trustee under section 553 of this title; and(2) the trustee does not attempt to avoid such transfer. this is what i will use for the lien that wasn't perfected and the lien the trustee was going to avoid when i was planning on listing the other house (one lien by DOT 90 days before filing was transferred---fraudulantly)
(b) of this section property that the trustee recovers under section 510 (c)(2), 542, 543, 550, 551, or 553 of this title, to the extent that the debtor could have exempted such property under subsection (b) of this section if such property had not been transferred, if—(1)(A) such transfer was not a voluntary transfer of such property by the debtor; and(B) the debtor did not conceal such property; or(2) the debtor could have avoided such transfer under subsection (f)(1)(B) of this section.(h) The debtor may avoid a transfer of property of the debtor or recover a setoff to the extent that the debtor could have exempted such property under subsection (g)(1) of this section if the trustee had avoided such transfer, if—(1) such transfer is avoidable by the trustee under section 544, 545, 547, 548, 549, or 724 (a) of this title or recoverable by the trustee under section 553 of this title; and(2) the trustee does not attempt to avoid such transfer.
(this is for house #2, the non exempt house and the transfer) . my daughter is here going to gym
Yes, since you are redoing the schedule F, you should make it the same as the MC list. I know you want to just make the changes, but you need to have ALL the creditors on there as the filings are not a cumulation of the creditors, but a final list of the creditors.
oh my so i have to put the reditors from the master creditor llist inititially file AND the ones i just added, i cant just write "added" or "correctedd" or "A" "C" on the one i just did and say that and then they can refer to both?
If you are unsure of the amount, it is better to guess at a figure than to put unknown, even if it is low.
You can white out the first filing and refile it with the changes, yes.
my problem for the amounts is that i had already listed the original amounts say from a cc, but since they are from 2008 they have gone through 4 or 5 debt collectors who i also listed so i keep adding those amounts and it's an astronamically higher total. and i've spent hours/weeks/months on the phone calling and many say they dont have it but i was told to list them all anyway. and many i don't know who has the debt anymore and the amount
Your statement of intention can be changed any time and yes you can file it at the same time that you file your Motion to Void Lien. Usually the court will not postpone your discharge date just to hear your Motion to Void Lien.
to clarify, when i amend, do they disregard the previous filing?
is the discharge date the same as the last day for creditors to object?
and since i'm not changing/amending some schedules, do i still need to file the original ones with the amendments?
Yes, the last day to object is usually the date of discharge, but it is not always the case.
No, you don't need to do a motion to change your statement of intention, Just change it and call it your amended statement of intention.
I'm sorry that the site is repeating parts of the chat. I'm not really sure why it is doing that, but just ask me again if I'm missing a part of your question. No, you can't put added or corrected, but have to put everything on the finalized schedule.
The dollar amounts are not important on the schedules like you would think. Whether the cc debt is $4k or now $8k, it is still the same and will be discharged. So don't worry too much about the amounts.
Yes, when you amend, they disregard the previous schedule and use the amended one that you submitted.
The discharge date may be the dame, but it is not always. The judge can make them different.
so...i am going to avoid the lien that impairs my Exemption, however, it isn't a lien, its an unperfected mtg that impairs my exemption (they never recorded it) its an "unrecorded lien" so what do i call it or exactly how do i phrase it to eliminate this type of "unrecorded lien?
No, the schedules you do not change, do not need to be resubmitted.
my book says only to put timeshares on sch G, but you had said to list them on D? they are paid for and current, with annual maint/taxes, i had listed them on D originally but not on the amended Sch's
ok...i think i did sch A wrong, the book says to avoid lien you hav to have a negative number on sch A. under current value of debtors interest column i put the value of the house and under the column of "amount of secured claim" I itemized the loans for each house. for the exempt house there is the unperfected lien and the recorded heloc and a judgement lien. and i itemized them, should i have put them all as a whole number added up and not itemized? because the total I have (the total that goes on summary of sch) is adding the current market value of the homes, is that right?
and obviously that is a positive number...the total of both houses current value
I would put an unrecorded lien on Schedule F, but you could list it with the asset and just put it as disputed/contested also, whichever you prefer.
You can put the timeshares on G, I always list them on D though if they are not paid off.
i did put it on my amended f before it was on d as "unsecured" so if i put it on f i dont have to go through the "avoiding: of it? they would have to dispute it?
Yes, put the current value of the home in schedule A.
because they could argue they didnt have time before the dc
Are you referring to the timeshare now or the unrecorded lien? I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.
the unrecorded lien, do i need to avoid it since it was never recorded?
I would just list it on F and discharge it.
The burden will be on them to show it was valid and to be valid it would have to be have been recorded.
Here is the motion to convert your case template:
I hope you are having a great night and enjoyed seeing your daughter at church!
yay, and for the "nonconsensual lien that was recorded or perfected while i was already insolvent or within the 90 days before i filed for bk?" that lien is the bogus one that I will be going after probably in fed court or state court "truth i L A" and "QT" complaints since the next 4 close date buys me time. that house (the one i didn't claim exempt but am living in" should i have their lien voided? or will the trustee then want to sell it? I have my children in one house and i am in the other so can i list it as exempt as well? i don't think so?
actually, i will just keep them on my amended sch F and their DOT will probably be dc'd right? but since i'm amending a week prior or 11 days prior to dc can they object still after the dc date and my amendments are filed? I plan on having my friend serve them through their direct fax. I only serve them the amendments that pertain to them right? like only the page F that has their name?
and yes, i enjoyed my daughter but she doesn't like this consuming my life and she said she'd rather have a mom than a house
No, you won't be able to list both of them as exempt. You can move to have their lien voided, but if the homes becomes unencumbered, then the trustee will definitely go after it. I would not move to void it and then let a state court figure it out after you've gotten a discharge and the bankruptcy matter is over.
and church/God...well that's what keeps me going. but i've been smoking again like a chimney and my kids are really mad/sad about that
ok, good idea. but i am listing their debt on Sch F and putting the debt/beneficiary that they bogusly listed as the beneficiary as the current valid debt (since they are sticking to that lien as the one foreclosing) even though i know that lender doesn't have the lien anymore or anything to do with it. so they will be on Sch F now too but it will look like the house still is underwater by the "foreclosing beneficiary"
Yes, they should be discharged and they should be able to object after the new amendments are filed. Yes only serve the amendments that pertain to them, the page that shows them.
That is good, it will look like the house is underwater so the trustee will ignore it.
yay so all i have to do is file the motion to void the judgement lien that encumbers my Homestead, right? and on A i put the value of the homes as a value after taking 5% off for selling them and i wrote that on there too, the book said u can do that as long as you say what you are doing
one last question, what do i put on my statement of I for the non Exempt Property? i plan on retaining it but i dont want to reaffirm or redeem so what would i put for other?
Yes, that is correct. Yes, put the discounted amount in A.
I would put that you are retaining it and reaffirming the debt. Even though the lien isn't valid.
oh they cant hold me to that?
No, the lien will be disputed in court anyway.
It was just your intention to retain the lien on the home, but later you can determine that lien isn't valid.
ok, and i dont have to redo the means test or my monthly income?
or refile it with amendments
You do have to refile it and you have to make sure your means test/monthly income reflects enough income to pay for the payment.
If they don't already.
oh in that case i better not list on Sch F next to their debt "T I L A" violatioins, right? and I also put contingent and unliquidated and disputed next to their debt on sch F, should i take off everything except "disputed" so there are no red flags?
ok, so i will only put disputed next to their debt and can i refile the old means test and monthly income? it has now changed since i am not paying the first unrecorded mtg
i am also renting out rooms now in the exempt house, and the recorded lien that i will be keeping (if they even have it since like i said, they had it as paid off, but i gave them a heads up but they prob aren't doing anything about it) but they recorded "rents and..." so can they take the rents if i list them?
i actually did list them with my initial filing but now i'm renting out another room
You can file a new means test if someone makes you, but otherwise don't.
I'm not sure if they will be discharged and prohibited from taking them? I've not had retained a property that had rents when there were recorded rents. Let me know what happens.
I probably would have listed it as a business and made that entire house part of the business assets, shown it with a mortgage and tried to make the expenses be as much as the income, so that it wouldn't be attractive to the trustee and would therefore let me keep it as a source of business income.
will do, so to clarify. i need to refile ALL schedules/statements, even if i'm not changing them? oh i need to reply now to what you just said
No, only refile the schedules/amendments that you are changing, but you need to file all of the creditors etc. on them. You can't just add some and refer to earlier schedules.
i had a partnership for years but not for the past few years because of other properties that were wrongfully 4 closed. but maybe i should switch again. originally i listed this home as primary and trustee was going to sell other one because of the unrecorded mtg. so i amended and put that house as primary and this one as mailing address. should I switch? or is it too late
is it too late to list it as a business anotherwords, without changing my homestead again? bcuz i don't think it'll look good to change it again
It is up to you. Go your route and see how it flies. You can always convert later on or file a separate chapter 13 if needed.
No, just leave it for now.
because that is the truth, the rents do cover the expenses
so i will check reaffirm the debt even though i know there is no debt to reaffirm on non exempt bogus lien house?
even though the lien i am listing no longer exists, can they get it back and make me reaffirm, through a buy back? however they have exited the mtg biz in CA and all mtgs exeppt reverse mtgs
They can't make you do anything, so no.
ok great i'm on it i'll keep in touch. i think i got it and i'm so glad i got you....i am in total isolation and no one knows what i'm doing except "working OT" except my kids...who of course don't fully get it
oh and i'll just file the motion to void the judicial lien, which requires a hearing? yes?
Thank you very much and yes, you will get a hearing on your motion to void the lien.
I will send you an email to check in with you, when would be a good time to follow up? 2 weeks?
and originally i was going to do a montion to avoid nonpossessory, non purchase money security interest but since i'm listing them on Sch F i dont need to do that and i'll take care of them next...after the dc? that's the best plan, right? and i have all the checklists/forms/how to's from law library for the judicial lien
Yes after the discharge would be better I think.
ok, yep a couple weeks would be good, however i'll be working on my motion against the bogus lender so they don't foreclose, but i'm thinking they might try to object to me putting them on F, however they probably wont since they know as well as i do that they can't prove anything and i can prove rob signing and more. so if i list them on F and its dcd and they dont object, can they carry out the Foreclosure?
oh shoot, one more thing, can i motion to avoid statutory hoa lien on non exempt house since the house is drastically under water? but not exempt?
If it is on F and they don't object, then that debt is discharged.
You can try, but hoa liens are hard to get off even if the house is underwater.
alrighty then...have a great night..anything else u can think of that i havent?
about noticing new creditors only include 341, the trustees order for last day to object and do i have to send them the schedules they are on or is it up to them to go on pacer?
Not at the moment. Let me know how it goes though and I'll send you an email in a couple of weeks.
Send them the schedules if they are included on them AND IF YOU ADDED THEM FROM THE ORIGINAL SCHEDULES.
ok ttys thanks so much!
You are welcome!! Have a great night and I'll talk with you soon!
sounds great, right back at ya
Thanks for all of your accepts and past bonuses also. You have been great to help!
thanks but i dont think youve been nearly compensated for all your help and reassurance! It's just been 7 years of abuse from these guys and seeing all my neighbors and entire block foreclosed (original homeowners) has been extremely damaging
its just not right on so many levels, not to mention more times illegal than not...but to fight...well first everyone goes into a depression and then just says, "TAKE IT!"
I hope you will get justice soon. You deserve it.
thanks goodnight ttys
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